#165: Scott W. Box: A Conversation About Mental Health and the Church
Scott W. Box is a former worship leader who has decided to use the platform God has given him to share about the very real struggles he has experienced with mental illness.
Unfortunately, mental illness is one of those things we don't always handle well in the church. My conversation with Scott is something we can all learn and grow from.
Links:
EP. 165
Tony: [00:00:00] Hey everybody, welcome back to the reclamation
podcast, where our goal is to help you reclaim good practices for faith
and life. I'm your host, Tony Miltenberger. And I'm excited to bring you a
conversation today with worship leader who shares his vulnerable story.
His name is Scott locks and he wants you to check out his brand new
resource.
Heroic disgrace. So he can share his story about mental illness, about
life, about hypomania, about trust and about a lifestyle of worship. So
much goodness here and it's vulnerable and it's real. And it's everything
that we need in such a time as this. Hey, as a reminder the reclamation
podcast is part of the spirit and truth podcast network to get connected,
to spirit and truth, check out their website, spirit and truth that life.
So many great podcasts there. And if you want more [00:01:00]
dialogue, go to the spirit and truth. Living the faith Facebook group.
Where you can dialogue with like-minded people like you like me, and
we'll jump in there from time to time. It's a great place to go after the
show to just ask questions, talk, do all the things you can also hook up
with me on Instagram at TW Milt.
And as a reminder, the best compliment you can give. Share this
episode with one friend, one friend who might need to hear a message
about hope in the midst of pain as always guys, I'm incredibly thankful
for you. And I can't wait for you to jump into this conversation. With Scott
box. Hey everybody.
Welcome back to the podcast. I'm excited today to have with me worship
leader, author and speaker Scott box. Scott. Thank you so much for
sharing your story today and be willing to come on the podcast.
Scott: Yeah, you bet Tony. It's my pleasure. And yeah, man. Thanks for,
thanks for having me.
Tony: Well, I, I want to [00:02:00] jump into your story a little bit, but I
thought maybe it would be wise to start from a macro perspective.
I'm curious, you've done a lot of different things. You're doing some
different things. Now. How would you describe the call that God has
placed on your life?
Scott: A lot of it is connected to what I have. I've just written about in my
book. I, but. I, I know I'm a worship leader. So, so, but, but also I know
I'm not a worship leader in the traditional sense.
I I've actually come off of platform Tony and the last couple years, and I
did it in order to figure out what the heck real worship. Is I, I, that's what I
was struggling with. Like what, there's this word in the Christian, you
know, in the church that that's that's worship. And I know other cultures
use the word too, but but the, the Christian culture has this, this thing
around what [00:03:00] worship is.
And I, I would see myself as a worship leader, but. Well, I suppose that's
what we're going to discuss a little bit too, along the lines of some of the
mental health stuff that I've struggled with, but yeah, yeah, I would I've
my calling is to be a worship leader.
Tony: I love it. And that, and I love the fact that it looks different now
than it ever has.
And I'm wondering if you might share a little bit of that story. How did you
get to where you are now in this kind of new understanding of. Of, of
who you are and how God wired you and how that plays out in the
church.
Scott: Yeah, a lot of it's connected to my, my health. I, I, when I was
about 30 years old, so I'm 45 right now.
And when I, when I. 30. I received [00:04:00] a diagnosis of bipolar two
disorder, and I'll just say it right out of the gate. It was a relief to get the
diagnosis. It wasn't a death. It didn't feel like a death sentence to me. In
other words, life was pretty hellish. Prior to that, and I, I could explain
more, but, but I had, I had been experiencing all the symptoms of bipolar
disorder and I was unmedicated and I really, I really was questioning my.
It was questioning my heroism, which is interesting because there's an
aspect of, of my family. I grew up being raised to be this heroic figure
and it's a thing, whatever, but it was a thing and I was broken. I was, I
was broken and I couldn't be that hero. And I was also realizing
[00:05:00] as a Christian man.
And as a, as a, as a pastor, I wasn't. I was far too sinful. I was far more
sinful than I, I thought I was supposed to be. And I just felt there was the
sense of, because of my mental health and because of all those other
things I, I really felt like I had no moral authority. And, and so my role in
the church and my place in the church and my understanding, I was just,
everything was up in the.
The only thing I really felt like I could grasp Tony was was my friendship
with Jesus. And frankly, I didn't have one, but I knew that if, if this was, if
what I believed was true, then I could have one. And so I went hard after
becoming a friend with Jesus.
Tony: I don't [00:06:00] want to ever like trying to put your story kind of
together for our listeners. You're pretty late in life to get a bipolar
disorder. I is that, is that it feels a little, yeah, it feels a little later in life to
get a bipolar disorder. What, what was it like to kind of work. In in, in the
church, which I've worked in the church for a long time.
And even though the church preaches grace, it's not always very
graceful. So what was it like to work in a church? Not having a diagnosis
and kind of living in that tension of your body, doing different things that
you really can't explain very well. Probably.
Scott: Well, certainly it was hard and I, you know, Some of the aspects
too, of, of what I was, was dealing with.
We're connected to, you know, areas of, of shameful things like
[00:07:00] pornography use. I mean, stuff like that, that, just, that
absolutely. Like I said, that there, there were some challenges when it,
when it came to the sense of moral authority that I didn't, I didn't feel like
I had it any, any more and. I also knew this.
I also knew other dudes in the church and, and I can't speak to the
females. I'm not a female. I don't really know what they struggle with in
the church lead in church leadership. But I know dudes do. I know, I
knew guys were struggling with similar things that, that I was struggling
with when it came to, you know, lustful thoughts and all of that stuff.
But. And I will also fall back on Kariana and I, my wife and I w I suppose
we weren't stupid Tony, but I, I do think that we were, we were naive to
think that everybody was dealing with the same problems that we were
they weren't that [00:08:00] other people weren't dealing with. I mean,
certainly other, other people have their own problems, but.
But they weren't dealing with the massive hypomanic highs and then the
gigantic D the diagnosis did freak some of my, my church friends out. I
know that for them, they thought it disqualified me from, from ministry.
And I certainly, I certainly didn't feel that way. I, in fact, I felt like I should
have all the places to To work through this, I could do it and be a leader
and be a model, be a role model in some, in some way I felt that was my
responsibility.
So I didn't feel disqualified.
Tony: Hmm. Why do you think that church has so much issue with
mental illness? When, when did that become such a thing that we
[00:09:00] never talked.
Scott: Well, I, I do think that there's aspects of, you know, in some of my
study too, you think. Th the, the miraculous things, you know, what was
Jesus healing?
Was Jesus healing, true demonic stuff. Probably. What was he, was he
also potentially healing some, some mental health things? Probably
wasn't. Was he, was he healing physical needs? Absolutely. And was he
healing? Spiritual? 100% so that I feel like one of the things Tony, that
we've we've lost in the church is the holistic perspective of mind, body,
and spirit.
And I don't know where that went off the rails, but it, it has. And you
know, you've got. You've got people who are unhealthy and in church
leadership and [00:10:00] are, they are physically unfit for church
leadership. If you will, you know, if you hold, if you hold me to a mental
standard of being mentally. Then I look at somebody else.
Who's just, you know, a hundred pounds overweight and well, what,
what come on. And so, okay. That breaks down. I get it. But the point is
that, that we need to look at this from a holistic standpoint. Just like
Jesus and the disciples did they went out to not just heal. The soul, but
the body and the mind is, well, the church should be about that 100%.
Tony: Yeah. I think one of the dilemmas that we run into is that there's a
lot of people who don't know that they're unhealthy or don't see it, you
know, I would be curious to hear a little bit more about your story and,
and kind of that moment where you realized. This is not [00:11:00]
normal. And what I'm wrestling with here is bigger than everything else,
right?
Scott: Yeah. The, the, the not normal part. So back to your, your
question about or your, your, your comment on kind of being late in the
game, the diagnosis, my understanding. Yeah, you're probably right. I
mean, it is on my later side of things. My understanding is that for, for
men, especially the, between ages 25 and 30 is when the the bipolar
symptoms that's, that's kind of when it amplifies and whether it's stress-
related, there might be some stress-related things involved in that too,
which then back to your original question.
That, that, or two to this question about kind of when and what were
those things? It was in that five-year gap, roughly for me [00:12:00] 26 to
30, roughly four years where things were amplifying to the, the
standpoint where I knew I did know something. Something was off. I
couldn't put my finger on it though.
And neither could neither could my wife and nor could nor were our
friends. I mean, mental disorders are hard for that reason. And so here's
the thing. We stumbled into Carrie Ann and I stumbled into counseling.
We were looking to adopt a child and our. One of the things that you just
have to do with counseling or with adopting is you've got to see a
counselor and see if you're mentally fit to bring a child into your home.
And so, thankfully we, we got, you know, that box was checked Tony,
but but, but along the way, Kerrianne and I realized, wow, there's, there's
some value in this Christian counselor. [00:13:00] Thing that we kind of
stumbled into. And so why don't we keep doing it? And then over the
course of a year of going to get. Which we've, that's been our thing for
15 years, roughly.
We just, every counseling session we do, we do together with the
exception of a couple of times where I needed to 9 1, 1, my counselor,
and be like, all hell is breaking loose. I need help right now on Saturday,
you know? And that, that what a blessing to have that in the tool belt.
But I, things had amplified and amplified and amplified.
To win God. It seems just made the opportunity. It gave us this
opportunity and this, this relationship with this woman who has become
our counselor, who's become not a part of the family, but doggone near.
I mean, she, she's such an important part of our life. And, and [00:14:00]
that's just part of our story. So I did I answer your question as far as.
I, I didn't get to the specifics what the things were, I suppose, but I don't
know if that's necessary. I don't know.
Tony: Well, I don't, I don't think it's necessary. I think that's kind of the
gist of what I was going for is like, you know, when did you kind of, when
did you kind of know that things were a little, you know, when did you
have your eyes open, so to speak.
And it sounds like that that counseling moment was pretty right. Pretty
pivotal.
Scott: Let me, let me throw this in hypomania is a drug I, okay. So if
you've got depression on the bottom end of things, and you've got mania
on the high end, there's this, there's this beautiful place right before the
top that.
That's glorious and I call it hypomania land. I mean, there's this, there's
this place. That's [00:15:00] just, it's epic. The problem is on the way up
when you're going through that hypomanic stuff and it's creative as heck.
I mean it's oh gosh. It's it's so good. There's. There's a problem though,
because then those times of irritation start coming where were things?
Lights get too bright. Sounds get too loud. Feelings up clothing just
becomes something you can't wear. And I just wished once I got naked,
I wished I could just hover off of the floor. These are the bad things that I
started to experience and I didn't that's when I knew. That's what I knew
there was a problem CA can.
Tony: Now, now that you're on the other side of this, we're not that well
now you've got more wisdom around it. More experience. Can you see
moments like these coming is it is how you handle it differently.
[00:16:00] Now, have you learned you know, some awareness about the
hypo hypomania parts?
Scott: Yeah. W one of the things I talk about in my story is the, the fact
that I was very much opposed to medication for years of my life.
I heck I wouldn't even take Advil. You know, I was a baseball player. I'd
get the, I get beat up behind the plate. I was a catcher and. Grin and
bear it. I loved the bruises. I would just here's my bruise. Let me show
you and you know, stupid macho hero stuff again. That was just part of
my thing as it.
Tony: Okay. So, so remind me, what, what, where were we going with
that w the, about your awareness currently to hypomania and learning to
become a. Kind of kind of learning to know when it's coming or
[00:17:00] do you know when it's coming or how does that, how does
that, yeah.
Scott: Yeah. So as far as medication, then thank you that this idea of it
being something.
I was adamantly against when I received my diagnosis. And once I had
a year of trust built up in this counselor and this medical team, because
we also had a psychiatric nurse practitioner who was a part of the
process and the reason psychia a psychiatrist or psychiatric nurse
practitioner is important.
Tony is because they're the ones that, that. Provide the medication.
They're, they're the ones that prescribe and they'll work in concert with
the psychologist once Libby, our counselor Elizabeth Hamilton. She's
amazing, but we call her Libby. Once Libby said, Scott, look, medication
is. It's [00:18:00] important.
Trust us. This will help you manage your life. It will not change it. You
will still be Scott box. It's just going to help you. It's going to lower the
lower, the highs and raise the lows and it's going to make your life
manageable. Will you trust us? And my response was not hell no, it was.
Yes, it was yes, because it would have for years been absolutely not
exclamation point it in caps, but once I realized what life was like on the
other side, Tony, once I had experienced that.
I as much as I wanted to live in hypomania land, I knew what the price
was for my wife and our young daughter at that point in time. And we've
since had a son and I was, I was unwilling to go back once I knew. And
[00:19:00] when they said trust us, it will be like a light switch is flipped.
You will know when the medications start to work.
I believe them.
Tony: One of the phrases that you use in the book is a lifestyle of his
heroic disgrace. And I'm curious if you can kind of paint the picture about
what that phrase means to you and, and why it's so important now.
Scott: The thing that I'm trying to do, and this was, I don't, I don't mean
to over spiritualize this in any way, but for, for all of us the intersection,
this is, what's so amazing for me. The, the intersection between my
journey of. As a, as a pastor, as a Christian leader, and then somebody
who was dealing with mental illness at, at, at a [00:20:00] level that it
changed me.
It changed me. It became, I became desperate. I became desperate in a
way. I never realized I was. Supposed to be or designs to be. That's kind
of the miracle of my bipolar disorder is that I realized I was actually, I
didn't just need more Jesus than Tony needs more. Jesus, you and I
were designed to be desperate for Jesus.
And there was that moment of realization where I, I recognized that the
heroism that Jesus modeled was an upside down type of heroism in a.
In the world's eyes. We, we see, we see that heroes need to be winners.
Well, Jesus went along and came along and he shows that that, well, he
was like pretty much the biggest loser, you know?
And, and what, what a [00:21:00] complete paradigm shift that Jesus
shows that what true hero is and looks like, and, and along those lines,
How amazing how disgraceful, how disgraceful it looked for him to, to, to
wash his disciples feet, how disgraceful it was to be nailed to a cross for
my sins. What a, what a heroic disgrace Jesus was.
Oh, but that is, what's so magnificent about it because. That's the
lifestyle that I see that Jesus has modeled for us, that I've been able to
connect the dots to what true worship is. Worship is not just singing in
church. It's not 10:00 AM on Sunday morning. You know, that type of
thing. Worship is a lifestyle and that's what heroic disgraced means to
me.
So
Tony: I imagine there's somebody who's [00:22:00] listening right now.
Who's like me and I want to have a lifestyle of worship. I'd I'd prefer not
to have a life altering diagnosis in order to get it. How, how do we, how
do we usher someone into a lifestyle of worship? On a, on a random
Tuesday?
Scott: Yeah.
We all have pain. This is, this is, this was one of the things that, that I. I,
if I wasn't, if I think God has, has used my bipolar disorder in order to get
this message into the world. But I am the least likely guy to, to, to have
this opportunity. I'm, I'm a train wreck. When I, when I'm, when I'm
talking to people, you know, this is, it's a miracle that you and I are even
talking right now.
The joy though of this, you know, on one [00:23:00] hand that, that my,
my train wreck of a life is that we all have train wrecks of a life on, on a
random Tuesday. Some listeners listening to this, they have to realize
just as I've realized and just like that Jesus is calling us to harness our
pain, to be a witness, to live a lifestyle that that can a lifestyle of.
A lifestyle that's upside down. And I, I don't know how else to do it other
than to try to, to motivate people with a different perspective. And I don't
know other than this, I don't feel the pressure anymore to be the one that
changes somebody's mind. I trust that the holy spirit can do that in a
heroic and a disgraceful way, but he can do it through people's pain.
Tony: Hey guys, just [00:24:00] pause in this conversation with Scott to
remind you that the spirit and truth is a ministry. And as a ministry, we're
continually looking for financial partners. If you want to become a
monthly gift of spirit and truth, that goes a long way to support that all the
God is doing on this podcast, go to spirit and truth.life/give, become a
monthly partner today.
And we are incredibly thankful for all of our partners and all the people
who have already signed up. It's a great way to support the podcast. And
it absolutely goes back into the ministry that God has. Through spirit and
truth. Now let's finish up this conversation with Scott.
Scott: So this idea of being being able to convince somebody on a
random Tuesday is, is one of those things that I suppose I do need to
think a lot more about, but I do know this.
I know that we all, we all struggle with. With aspects of pain in our lives.
[00:25:00] It doesn't have to be mental. It doesn't have to be bipolar
disorder that flips your world upside down. It could be a loss of, you
know, a friend, a family member. It could be loss of a job. It could be
whatever it is, there's pain in our lives.
That, that make us question, make us question things and. Makeups
make us question our place in the world and our, even our health, you
know, am I doing what's right. And I, I will say that I don't, I don't put the
pressure on myself anymore. Like I used to that I have to convince
somebody else's that they need Jesus.
I, I I'll tell my story. And then. The holy spirit, I let the spirit part of the
Trinity do his work in, in other people's lives. And it I'll say this one more
thing. I, if I was trying [00:26:00] to convince you right now, Tony, that
you need to live a lifestyle of heroic disgrace. I, I would just, oh man. I
would want you to know that regardless of your pain, regardless of
where you are in your health, I would want you to, to know, like, I know
that God makes healthy what he doesn't heal.
In other words, health is always an option. Some type of health, even
when healing is the most absurd impossibility and. I would, I would just
go hands hands-off then if you don't believe that that's between you and
God. But if you believe that you can now enter into this lifestyle of heroic
disgrace, that, that I'm discussing, this is this kind of cracks the door.
In fact, it doesn't just crack the door. It kicks the door in.
Tony: D do you think that most of us struggle [00:27:00] with the idea of
heroic disgrace because of the cultural kind of connection to hear
wisdom. I mean, let's be honest, there aren't many incredible movies or
books out there about you know, heroes that lose.
So. Right. How do we, how do we wrestle with the tension of what the
culture says? And obviously, you know, we, we know that Jesus wins in
the end, but you still have to get through Friday and Saturday to get to
Sunday. You know, how, how do we live in all that?
Scott: Yeah. That, you know, what comes to mind is there's also not
many fat superheroes that either are there, you know, there's, you know,
there's not overweight superheroes.
I was, I was thinking about, you know, Mr. Incredible, right, Mr.
Incredible ha he was out of shape for a minute or two in that, in those
movies. And then, you know, he became a stud again. Oh man.
[00:28:00] I don't have an easy answer for that. I, I know, I know that the
pursuit and the reflection of Jesus demands that I do something different
with my life though. And when, when I think of, when I think of a lifestyle
of heroic disgrace, I, I think that the. I mean, I, this isn't what I think this
is, this is what God tells us, but my, the way in which I approach it is
from a worship perspective.
And my worship perspective is in this definition of worship, that it's, it's
really three words. I use one word twice, but it's pursued Jesus. Reflect
Jesus. Pursued Jesus reflect Jesus as a habit that leads to hope and
see here's the problem. We, what we struggle with when we don't live
[00:29:00] lifestyles of heroic disgrace, we can, our desperation, like we
talked about a few minutes ago, our desperation can.
Can lead us to hopelessness. That's that's the problem that we live with
in our culture is desperation in these times triggers, hopelessness, and
as opposed to redirecting that desperation to a dependence on Jesus.
And that's, that's the fruit of desperation. That's, that's not, that's not the
rot. The rot of desperation is hopelessness, but the fruit of desperation is
directed properly is that pursuit and that reflection of Jesus peak out of a
deep dependence on him.
And heck maybe, maybe I've just got an inside track on that because.
Freaking broken. I don't know. I, I don't, I can only speak for myself, but I
don't think I've got the inside [00:30:00] track. I think there's a couple of
millennia of people who've kind of gone before you and me and figured
this thing out and lived.
Lifestyles of disgrace heroic lifestyles of heroic disgrace.
Tony: H how do you discern? So, so a little bit of my story. I've wrestled
with alcoholism and I've got to get a personality. And so one of the
things that I'm always aware of is that I'm 24 hours away from ruining my
entire life at any given moment.
I just kind of as a general framework for me, like an and so. One of the
things that I love to ask people who are open about their struggles is
how do you discern God's voice and will in your life versus the voices
that exist inside of you?
Scott: Well, when it comes to things of my appetite I can often, I it's
it's.[00:31:00]
If we're talking difference between appetite and God's voice there,
there's often a very distinct difference that I've been able to, I can
recognize when it's me versus when it's God, because my appetites
drive me toward things that are not holy that are, that, that. Maybe,
maybe not even that spiritual, let let's put it this way.
My appetites will drive me in a direction that could trigger my my
obsessive or the things. That that are negative. That that could cause
me pain in my relationships pain and breaking me down in my health. I
know those things. I don't need God to tell me those things, you know,
you know, I, I know that if, if, if I had, if, if I was struggling with
alcoholism, just as an example, I know plenty of people [00:32:00] that
know they cannot have a single.
Or they, or it's a big problem. As far as,
I don't know, man, I, I do know that the pursuit and the reflection of
Jesus requires a day in and day out relationship and desperate
dependence on him. And when you have that, Way easier to identify, to
identify the voice of the Lord. If you will. You know, it's, that's on us
though. I mean, that's like, God, give me your voice.
Tell me, tell me your opinion about this. And, and we haven't been
hanging out with him. We will know his distinctive voice, you know, that's
a big problem. And I could I speak from experience?
Tony: How do you remain dependent? Maybe, maybe that's the, maybe
that's the right question then is. Is I, you know, I have some friends
[00:33:00] in Cuba and they're dependent on the Lord all the time, but
that's because they also don't have anything to eat, you know?
Whereas I live a really comfortable life and I'm thankful. And so my
dependence has to be a little bit more intentional. How does that work in
your life?
Scott: I've thought about this. I felt, I feel very fortunate. I feel very
fortunate to be. One of those who wrestled with this at a young, younger
point in my life.
It's easy as it's easy for us to look at the people who like you mentioned,
you know, are suffering from very real needs and life and death type of
things and, and go, oh, well, it, they obviously depend on Jesus and. It's
also another example would be, you know, somebody retired, they're
they're going to [00:34:00] live, you know, hopefully another 20 years of
retirement and they find out they've got cancer and you know, oh man,
that person you realize they, they depend on Jesus or, or they don't.
But, but often those are the situations that somebody realizes, wow, I
need Jesus really bad. I hit that point when I was 30 years old and way
younger than most people in America. And I feel like that is part of the
gift and the blessing that I was able to, to identify the painful thing. And.
I, I don't, I, I don't know if I'm humble or not.
I think I, I think there's this sense of just like, dear God, take this thing
from me because I need you so badly.
That's that's that that's coming out of the heart. So I don't feel like I have
to [00:35:00] be starving to get to that place or to have a terminal illness
to get to that place. I don't think you need that either. And I don't think
your listeners are, our audience needs that either. There's just, there's
just a sense of, of submission.
And if we don't get to that place of submission, Yeah, we won't get to
that place of desperation either. That's really good.
Tony: As, as you have kind of put your story out there and, and I would
imagine writing a book like this, that's so personal and so intimate. It it
holds up a mirror to a lot of things.
What did you learn about God in the process?
Scott: I learned. I learned about the hero wisdom of God and in a way
that I, I love, I love this idea of, of Jesus flipping heroism upside
[00:36:00] down and what we know about God we know because of
Jesus. And I love that we can.
I love that we can be heroic as Jesus is heroic without shame. He,
because he calls us to be that way. He calls us to love as he loves, he
calls us to serve as he serves. If, if this is what God, the father is like, I'm
here, I'm here. I want, I want that kind of, I want that kind of God. And.
That's what, that's, what I've learned.
And again, I don't have it all figured out, man. I just know that I know that
God. Is so much bigger and is calling me into something so much
greater and all of us into this, this heroic journey. And, and it is heroic.
We should not back down from that [00:37:00] idea of heroism, but we
have to redefine it in the same way that we have to redefine and reframe
things like worship.
A worship is not just singing. That is incomplete. Is a lifestyle of pursuit
and reflection of Jesus. I've learned some great things about God. Yeah.
Tony: Yeah. That's so good. Okay. I have one more question for you for
ask it though. I know that my listeners are going to want to follow your
ministry, learn more about what God is doing in you and through you,
where all the best places on the interwebs to find all things, Scott box.
Scott: Thank you for asking that question. I appreciate it. I do most of
my communication on Facebook at worship hero just at worship Shapiro,
and you can find the book@heroicdisgrace.com. I am
also@worshiphero.com. Out on Twitter, [00:38:00] out on Instagram, all
that fun stuff. Good. Good, good, good.
Tony: We'll link to all that too, in the show notes so people can find it.
Thanks. Okay. Last question. I always love to ask people. It's an advice
question and except I get to name the day and the time where, where
you're going to give yourself a piece of advice. And so I want to take you
back to the the day before your bipolar diagnosis. And if, if you were
going to sit down, need a knee with that younger version of Scot and
look them in the eyes and maybe even hold his hands what's the one
piece of advice you're going to give them.
Scott: There was a time in my, in my journey where I was nearly 300
pounds and I was, I had just had vocal cord surgery. I, there was no
guarantee that I was going to be able to, to rehab and and be able to,
[00:39:00] to be a worship leader in the way that I thought I was
supposed to be a worship leader. I'm sitting, I had just come out of the
therapist office.
I just cut it. I'm sweating. I, I wrote the elevator and I'm sweating.
Basically. I was so out of shape, everything was just, I was in pain. And I
sat down in the car and there was, I had just gotten in a kind of verbal
battle with my therapist, who I thought was a total jerk. And she ended
up being absolutely amazing because in so many, in so many ways that
there's so much to that story, but she wrote two words on a little sheet of
paper that I flipped around.
I was a little confused at first, but it said takes everything. She's not a
believer. She was not a believer. She just, she told me what it was going
to take to get healthy and her, her line, it was two words, takes
everything. [00:40:00] And I started crying. I've fallen on my way home.
And so there's that I would give myself the advice.
It takes everything. What the heck does that mean? Well, it means
exactly what it says. I will also say this. That triggered this aspect in my
life of it can also become too late to get healthy. If I, if I could, if I could
remind myself if I could tell myself if I was there, you know, with my
hands on the shoulder, my own shoulders, looking at myself in the eye, I
would encourage myself that don't even threaten that line.
It becoming too late. There could have been a moment in time where it
could have become too late to be able to give everything that I needed
to, to get healthy. Again, it can become too late to get healthy.
Tony: That's so good, man. Scott, I [00:41:00] just appreciate you. I
appreciate your story and your vulnerability, and I'm so thankful for your
generosity of time today.
And I can't wait to see what God does through this resource.
Scott: Thank you so much, Tony. My pleasure. And I. Speaking with
you, man. Thank you.
Tony: Man. I love Scott's heart. I love the way he talks about pursuing
Jesus and reflecting Jesus. I love the way he talked about worship and
how we're designed to be desperate for Jesus and a so much here that
is important for the church.
And you know, I pray that as each and every one of us go into the local
church, we keep this message in mind about mental illness. I know that
I've had to deal with. As a pastor through various connections and it's
real and it's hurtful and it's painful and trying to figure it out is a difficult,
difficult task.
So do me a favor, follow Scott on Facebook at worship hero and let him
know that you heard him here on the reclamation podcasts. Up a copy of
his book, heroic disgrace. [00:42:00] And again, thank you all so much
for being a part of this community. It wouldn't be worth it if it weren't for
you guys. Finally, guys, remember if you want to follow Jesus, you must
be willing to move.
