#159: Nathan Clarkson: The Way of Kings
Nathan Clarkson believes that today's man is having an identity crisis.
In our conversation, we talk about what it means to be a king, and rule in the likeness of the one true King.
Links:
EP. 158
Tony: [00:00:00] Hey everybody. Welcome back to the Reclamation Podcast, where our goal is to help you reclaim good practices for faith and life. I'm Tony. And today is episode 159 of the podcast where I sit down with repeat offender. Nathan Clarkson, Nathan was on episode 73, the very first time. And today we're going to talk about his brand new resource, the way.
I think that if if you've got men in your life, whether you're raising them or married to them, or you just know some, you need to hear this conversation because one of the questions that's fundamental to who Nathan is, is. With what it means to be a man after God's own heart. What a beautiful question.
One that I think we all need to wrestle with. And one that I think Nathan does a really good job of walking us through. So we're going to talk about his new book, the wave Kings. I know you're going to want to listen [00:01:00] to it. The dialogue today, there's so many good nights. In there. As a reminder, we believe that through intentional conversation and dialogue, we can help you move closer to Jesus.
That's what we're here for. That's our goal. That's our prayer for each and every one of you who listens male or female. So we're thankful for you. We're praying for you. And we're excited to be with you on this community. If today's episode was meaningful for you, do me a favor, hit that subscribe button, wherever you listen to pod.
Leave a rating review on iTunes or Spotify. We're getting closer and closer to a hundred reviews on iTunes. That's one of our goals for this year. So if you could help us get it, we greatly appreciate. Now without any further ado. Here's my conversation with Nathan Clarkson. Hey everybody. Welcome back to the podcast.
I'm excited today. Be here with a friend who's been here before from episode 73, Nathan Clarkson. Nathan, thank you so much. And welcome back to the podcast.
Nathan: Thank you so much for having me and it's it's great to be.
Tony: [00:02:00] It's a, it's wild to think the amount of time that's gone on. Since we last talked, when we first talked, you were, we were just kind of in the middle or really in the beginning part of the pandemic and you live in New York city.
And so how has it been transitioning? Hopefully it's safe to say out of the pandemic, what's that been like for you? A new.
Nathan: Yeah, it has been, it's funny to think about the time we last talked, which is right at the beginning of all this and who could have predicted the past couple of years and what a couple of years has been, especially here in New York city.
It's it was a really wild ride. Like I was telling you a second ago before we started recording, you know, there were times a lot of time when it was like a ghost town here, you know, everyone thinks in New York and people in the streets and lively and you'd walk outside and there'd be no one there.
This is very eerie feeling. But luckily as spring is breaking and this pandemic is coming to an end and it's really good to be walking outside and seeing people [00:03:00] coming back to life and out on the streets. And, but it was, it was pretty rough there for a couple of years, man. So I'm really, really thankful that, that it looks like the city is kind of edge and out of this really, really difficult time.
Tony: If you had to choose spring in New York or Christmas in New York.
Nathan: Oh man. Oh, I got to go with just because we're currently in spring, I gotta go with spring, spring and all about new life things happening. And so I, I feel like that's what the world needs right now is new life. So I got to go spring right now, but, you know, talk to me when Christmas rolls around.
Cause I'm a pretty big softy for that in
Tony: Ohio. It could be spring and winter all in the same. Yeah, because we're just that bipolar. What are the other things you've been working on the last couple of years is the overthinkers podcast and congratulations. You just hit 100 podcasts. I was [00:04:00] listening to it this week. So excited for you and the journey that's been on. I'm curious, what have you learned about. About yourself about God, it just kind of in a macro sense, what have you learned after a hundred podcasts that is really centered around being an overt.
Nathan: Yeah, that's a great question. It, you know, the overthinkers or something, we started right at the tippy top of the the pandemic, you know, right. When all of us were locked down. And so part of us starting, it was an attempt to kind of stay sane and to keep that community and to keep connection with people, you know, Here in our teeny little apartment here in New York, I'd have over two of my friends and we do a podcast once a week.
And part of that was just to continue having community, you know, everything was shut down here. So it was just to keep on connecting. And it's like, if we have a podcast, Continue to build our friendship, have the discussions and me and my friends love discussing big things. We love talking about the big questions of life, about God and [00:05:00] faith and philosophy and art and culture and all the, all the things we we wander.
We wonder about as we lay in bed at night and we like talking about those. And we also think that talking about those things is important. That searching for truth is something that God has asked us to do. And so the, the lessons I've learned is one Yeah, it just, that, that how important it is to get together with people and try to find truth together, to expand your mind, to try to figure things out, to look at things from different perspective and try to understand the world around you, the world that God has created and what's going on.
And number two, just how important having people in your life to challenge you to communicate to connect with is, and number three, you know, at a hundred podcasts. It's been the, one of the most rewarding things I've had and it took a pandemic to get started, but it's consistency. You know, I looked back and we started, we had a couple listeners and, but it didn't matter.
We just, it [00:06:00] was more for, cause we wanted to do it. And we started, we kept on doing it, but a week after week after week, and here we are two years later and now we have like that's funny. My friend told me to think in these terms, we have four airplane full of people listening to every episode. And it's just consistency.
It's saying yes, over and over and over and over again. And that's how you see growth in your life. And it's not going to be in this one. Huge bang. But if my podcasts has taught many things, staying consistent, keeping those weekly rhythms and practices up ultimately is what provides you that reward.
And so, yeah, those are a few things I've learned and I'm just so blessed to get to be a part of the podcast community among yourself, Tony. So I'm sure you know, all these things too.
Tony: It's people always think that a podcast is a great idea until you're about 50 episodes.
Nathan: Yeah. Oh yeah, because it's such a, it's such a grind.
Tony: I I'm curious if, do you have any words of wisdom on how to [00:07:00] create. Consistency because you live in a world that is, it's very creative and you know, you and I have talked about before, it's not, you don't have like a traditional nine to five. So your work is kind of like you could be off filming something.
You could be off creating something. And then, oh, by the way, you've got this weekly sometimes can feel like a new surround your neck you know, task. How do you make space in a busy creative world for a consistent. Obligation.
Nathan: One thing that's helped me is I do it with two buddies Joseph and Nathan, and having other people to fill in where you can fail when you're not consistent, having other people to stay consistent with you has been very helpful.
So, you know, when I'm, when I drop something, someone's there to pick it up. You know, the it's kind of the quarter, the quarter of three strands idea found in scripture. So that's been helpful. And then, you know, I wish there was like a better, like, more magical, interesting answer, but really it's [00:08:00] just kind of, the dedication is kind of like, this is important to me.
I have friendships through this. Now we have listeners who kind of depend on this. And so. Just making the time, you know, it, it is crazy. I never know if I'm going to be on set if I'm going to be traveling. But it's okay. So we're not, we're not able to, to hang out together and do the podcast. Let's get on zoom.
We have a free hour here and it's prioritizing what is important to you. And so to me, that was really important. And to us this was important and. Part of that was because we had people listening and we, and, and interacting and, and finding something, especially through the pandemic. And so it was saying this is important.
I'm going to find the time to do this. Even around all the craziness, we're going to figure out how to do it. And so we do, you know, We all live crazy lives, but somehow or another, we either meet or jump on zoom or whatever it is, but it's at the, at the heart of it. It's because we place it as a priority in place each other as a priority and the listeners.
And so, yeah, I wish I had something deeper and more, you know, cool. Like a trick, but it's just [00:09:00] prioritizing what matters to you. Yeah, for me, that's what it, what it is.
Tony: I, why I love it. And Nathan a who's also your producer. He does an incredible job with the cutaways you guys are. Right. And you talk about it quite a bit in episode 100, if you, if you haven't listened to this podcast yet, I suggest you go subscribe and, and you may just want to start with episode 100 because it's just, it's just really fun.
And they, they talk about why podcasts are so important and it was near and dear to my heart. So I, I appreciate it, but he really does do a great job with that with the predominance.
Nathan: I love it. It's our whole thing is, yeah. We want to talk about serious things and deep things, but we want to have fun at the same time, because I feel like the world is, is, is facing two problems.
One is no one's smiling anymore. Everyone's mad and two everything shallow. So it's how do we combine having fun while thinking deeply? And those cutaways are on point, man. They're too much fun.
Tony: Yeah. That's a good point. I, I get super Perplexed by [00:10:00] Christians who are angry all the time. It just feels like if you know the joy of the Lord and you know, the promises of scripture, like, Hey, maybe we should let our face know or something.
Right. Like how do you, how do you keep fun in your life? I'm curious.
Nathan: Yeah. You know, It's a deliberate choice. I realized that during the pandemic, because there were times I was feeling depression, heavy, man, I was, I was going through it. There was times, you know, I would be reading the news every day.
Like everyday I wake up, throw my iPhone and just read the news and find by the time I'm drinking my coffee, I'm just angry at the world. I'm angry at this person at this group. And at some point, and it's not about. D, you know disconnecting from the world. Cause we, we need to be connected to the world to love it, to help it, you know, to be God's hands and feet there.
But there is something to say for knowing your limits. We're limited humans, right? We, we are not God, we don't have the power to control and rule everything. And [00:11:00] at some point I had to say, You know what, maybe the best thing for me, isn't reading the news at 8:00 AM in the morning, before I even get out of the bed.
And maybe the best thing for me is to go and, you know, hug my wife and have breakfast and laugh over something. And maybe the best thing right now, isn't to argue politics with my friends, maybe it's to watch a movie and laugh at something. So it became an intentional choice. For me. And it's not about disconnecting from the important things.
Believe me. I, all I want to do is talk about the important things and discuss them, but it's an intentional choice to have joy and find the happiness in life. Because at the end of the day, like you said, Tony, we are Christians. We believe in goodness and happiness and joy. I mean, joy is commandment in scripture.
And if we're not smiling, if we're not having fun, if we're not looking at the world in life, With a smile on our face. And I don't think we're really trusting God. So yeah, for me, it was learning the boundaries in my life when and how much, maybe to engage with things. I know have the [00:12:00] possibility to upset me engage with friends who make me happy.
Choose to lean into the places that bring you joy. And and ultimately, you know, I forgot to say this, I guess probably the most important is when you have a perspective that is centered on God being in control, it allows you to release a few things out of your hands and you can smile again. You don't have to worry about and control everything.
So yeah, I, I, I'm not, I don't want it to be a cheap answer. You know, trusting that ultimately God is, is the one who's running everything and, and he'll win in the end. Just that perspective can change how you live right now, even if you're going through it.
Tony: Yeah. And I think that's, I think that's spot on and it sounds so easy, but faith is never that easy.
So, and that's really. Kind of the impetus of all of that, right? It's like, Hey, we've got to walk in faith for the joy and that, you know, God is bigger than all the things that we're experiencing at any given time. So I, I think that, I think that's spot on feels. [00:13:00] It feels right. This, this latest book, the way of Kings it's, it's super exciting.
And we're going to jump into it a little bit. But I know that a lot of my audience is, are women. And one of them is my wife, for example she, she is a loyal listener. Hi Bev. And so I wanted to ask why should my wife listen to our conversation about the way of king.
Nathan: Oh, that's a great question.
That that's really interesting. Cause we have a on the podcast and even just a lot of the people who buy my books, I have a, a heavy audience of women as well. And man. I just respect, you know, a lot of them are moms. I just respect what women do and who they are in the world. And there's so needed. And the strength they bring, I would hope that what they could get out of this is maybe a little of insight into the men in their lives or there's husbands or dads and brothers or sons.
A little insight into [00:14:00] how our minds might work into the design that God created us for, and that will help them love us better, encourage us better. And hopefully in, even if they wanted to read a book like this by themselves that they could begin to understand a little more The intention and beauty and intricacy that God created men with and that'll help them relate to the men in their lives.
You know, it's been interesting. My wife and I got married, we talked to this last time, right before the pandemic. Like we still haven't been on our honeymoon and which was nuts. And it's been interesting. I've been, as I've written this book and you know, she's my editor for sure. She reads everything before before it goes anywhere.
Cause I'm a terrible speller. And and she, as she's reading it, she would ask questions about, is this how you see things or is this what men really experience and go through? And so for her experiencing the book, it was a great way to step into my shoes, you know, and that's what God [00:15:00] asks us to do is to step into each other's shoes and try to empathize and see life through each other's eyes.
It's an interesting opportunity. She said to step into my shoes and what it's like to experience life as a man today in the world and the fears, the doubts, the hopes that men have. And so that's what I hope can happen for women listening is that you might get a little insight and into the perspective that the men you love and are in your life hold and have.
Tony: Yeah, I th I think that's, I think that's a great gift to give all the, all the people in our world, but especially the, the, the women in our lives, whether those be even daughters or, you know, these are, when I, when I look at this book, one of the things I want is I want my daughter to find a husband who.
Who lives this kind of life, you know, because I, I think the way you wrote it is both like a workbook a little bit. And then also [00:16:00] almost you know, it's aspirational, it's challenging. Right? And one of the things that I noticed, the connection between your last book, good man. And then this book, the way of Kings is, is this term God's own heart.
You start the way of Kings with this idea. And that's a, that's a big theme in good man. Tell me about that piece of scripture and, and how it, it resonates deep inside of you because there's clearly a connection.
Nathan: Yeah, well, you know, the, the man after God's own heart is something that seems to describe this character, David, who we all know and love in scripture.
And David is, is really a central figure in the arc of scripture. You know, even Jesus comes through David's line. And so Dave has always been an interesting guy to me, and he's been a guy who I've connected with deeply, and it's interesting that God calls him a man after his own heart, because you look at David's life, right?
David is not what you expect. [00:17:00] A quote-unquote good Christian Guy to be. I mean, he is full of mistakes and big ones. I'm talking violent sex, everything you can imagine that could go wrong. He does. He's not a perfect guy and, but yet. God describes him as a man after his own heart. And we see the David is one of the heroes in scripture, even in the midst of his grand mistakes.
And ultimately that's because his heart is turned towards God and that his, his feet are chasing God that he's pursuing God. And, and, and even as he stumbles, he continues to get up and chase God. And that's something that was really meaningful to me in my own life, because there've been times I feel, I guess, unqualified or.
Even sometimes disqualified from the quote good man or from becoming a royalty that God has called us to be, I feel like that's for other guys. I feel like that's for you know, pastors for guys who are for moral men who never mess up for, you know whoever it might be. I think [00:18:00] we all have these images in our head of who these quote unquote good men are.
And I felt disqualified. A lot to be honest. And that's where my last book good man came from and the wave Kings. And when I looked at David, though, what I saw was an imperfect man who still had that desire because it comes down to desire and desire to follow God and to even in the midst of his mistakes, live out a life of chasing God and his story that he's written for us.
And so that encouraged. And I wanted to take that on for myself. And so what does it look like to be a man after God's own heart? Well, it's not about being perfect, but about having all the answers, obviously, as we see in David's life, it's about the desire to be a man of God. And also there's this, this concept of David is is a king.
And one of the things in the ways you can see that he follows God is by ruling in the world. That God has asked him to him really well. The dominion in the domain that God has given him. And I want to take on that understanding from my own life, maybe that God has called [00:19:00] us each to be Kings in a way of our own lives, our own dominions, our own relationships, and the, when he asks to follow him, he asks us to rule well, the things he's interested us.
And so men David in this, in the verse about being a man after God's own heart really is kind of one of the. W base issues and inspired this and my last book. And I really want to explore those things. What does it mean to be a king like David and in an imperfect one, but to take on that vision of who I see myself as a new God has called me and what would it, what would it look like for me to envision myself in that and how would that change my life, my choices.
And so that's kind of where this book came out of and why that versus.
Tony: The very first sentence of the book is that men were created to be Kings. And it's funny. I read it and I thought to myself, Like intellectually. I believe that I believe that through the promises of scripture, and yet I also found myself much like you I'm [00:20:00] disqualifying myself almost immediately.
Like even kind of in my head, like I kind of made the joke. Well, every king needs a gesture, right? Like, you know, maybe I could just be that guy, you know, like what do you, what do you do? And I love to get kind of practical. I know there's somebody listening right now. Who's disqualifying themselves from the promises that God makes.
What do you do to battle back? The voices of disqualification?
Nathan: Oh man. That's, that's really good. And it's difficult. This is. This is not an easy one. Well, just, you know just, you know, forget your past has done for you to man. Right now, this is a, this is a take the blue pill Morpheus. Yes. This is a, this is a lifelong battle.
I think for many of us, maybe most of maybe all of us is believing that Yeah, but believing this truth about as a, we can be Kings. And for me, I guess it there's a lot of different things. One is having people around me who, when I [00:21:00] fall pick me back up is who lifts me back up and remind me who I am, remind me that I was created to be king, remind me that I was designed by God for a purpose.
And so they're the people who pick me back up, but also part of having people in your life. Is the people, you know, whether it's a wife or friends or family who actually know huge parts of you who know about your past failures, you know, that, that's why it's so important to me to be within communities, especially communities of men with whom I can be honest with whom I can talk about the big, big mistakes of my life in the, in the places I feel vulnerable.
And to have them look at those places and then still come around me, slapped me on the back and say, all right, I know about this, what you've been through, what you've struggled with, why you feel disqualified, and yet let's pick yourself up and go be a king. And just that, that they can see me as that even while knowing what I've done, who I've been in, the ways I've failed is really [00:22:00] valuable to me.
And then I guess another one is a more personal aspect that just connection between me and God. And, and it's. Learning to be inside inside my mind and my heart, to be honest with God about those fans, not try to hide them, but I, you know, it's, I've learned the practice of, of telling God, listen, I don't feel like you love me.
I don't feel like I'm qualified to be this thing that you say I am. And I know, like you said, I know it mentally. I know it cognitively, but I don't feel that. And it's having that, you know, to use an overused phrase, that open dialogue. With God where you're not trying to just come and come out and look spiritual, but you have this very, you know, in the, in, in the clot, in the in the hidden room and the hidden space where you go and you have this really honest dialogue with God, and you tell him and you go over your mistakes and you go over the things that make you feel disqualified, but you also tell them I don't feel this.
And I think just that. That connection that you make to God when you're [00:23:00] speaking to your creator and speaking honestly is part of the restoration you'll begin to experience. But only when you actually get real honest about yourself, your feelings, your past, who you are and who you want to be in front of your creator and with your creator, can you start feeling.
That redemption arc in your life. Hey, everybody just
Tony: pausing this conversation with Nathan to remind you that the reclamation podcast is part of the spirit and truth podcast network, a network of like-minded podcasting creators that want to help the local church and help you grow closer to Jesus for more information, and to get connected to spirit and truth.
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Now let's finish [00:24:00] up my conversation with Nathan. Yeah. I, I think. But I think it has to be like a head and heart kind of movement there. And that, that makes a lot of sense. And it also, you know, requires a bit of action. The, the way that you put this book together, I think does a good job of hitting all three.
You get something for the head, something for the heart and, and something for the feet as they, as they sometimes say Yeah. Talk to us a little bit of how the, how the format of each, because the chapters are designed to be consumed separately or together in this, in this writing. Yeah. You can put them all together or you can like do one you know, You know, whatever once a week or once a day, whatever.
How did you decide on the format of the book? And then the up question to that, which I'm really curious about is there's a really fun part of every section called the king tip. How did you decide what tips to put in the book?
Nathan: That's a great question. Well, so. [00:25:00] So just a quick overview of the format.
It's 40 quote letters, you know, a 40 letters essentially, and where my last book was kind of memoir and it had stories about me and in life. This is, I wanted to be practical. I wanted, you know, sometimes as much as I love writing those very personal stories about myself and, and exploring knowledge that way for this, I wanted to get down and dirty and just go straight to the practical.
Wisdom that we can use in our lives. I also know that I'm, I'm a person with ADHD. I have a hard time sitting and reading for like two hours. Listen to my academic friends that are amazing. And I love you, but I'm also an awe of you because I can that the 15 minute mark, I'm going, oh boy, my foot is tapping.
I got to go do something. So I know there's a lot of guys out there like me who, and even aside from that, whether you have a short attention span, Right. We got lives. We got families. We have jobs who are demanding of us. And as much as we like to sit down and read for two hours, that's just not even realistic.
And so I wanted to [00:26:00] write something that guys were going to school or job or have responsibilities can sit down for 10 minutes and ingest the whole chapter, the whole idea. They could get a, a nugget of wisdom about something relevant to their life. And take it quickly within just a few minutes.
So there's 40 short chapters, but all of them are practical. All of them have to do with something that we all experienced in this world and it takes, and you can take that thought into your day. And part of it, you know, the way of Kings is, you know, in the, in the old days, the Kings, when he would be leaving.
His throne, he would write letters to the incoming king, his son and there would be letters about particular subjects as he would pass on his wisdom of a king. And so I wrote this to myself, kind of like taking from scripture and writing letters to myself about the wisdom I needed to remember each day in my life.
And so that's kind of what I wanted to do with this. And, you know, after the letter, you have obviously a scripture reading, you have some. And and then like you pointed, there's a king tip, which [00:27:00] are the kind of the man tips at the end of each one. And this, this is everything from recipes to work out plans, to how to ask a girl out to style tips.
And this is to be honest, this was like the most fun part, writing the book. It was, it was fun because I looked back, you know, in, in my, me and my friends lives, we all try to help each other, write each other tips. And you know, like when you get with guys, oh, I think she likes me, man. Should I ask her out those kinds of things?
And so I wanted to, you know, kind of provide that let's all get together and share these things. These, these life hacks that have helped our lives and stuff. And so I had a blast writing those, and I hope that. Just those little fun king tips. Those man tips might be proved beneficial in your life, but those are so much fun to write.
And they came out of many, many conversations and years of learning, little tips and failures, by the way. So those are, those are so much fun to write and I hope that guys enjoy it.
Tony: Just as a side note, was there one that was your favorite with one? It was like, oh, this was this was really cool to learn or something that maybe you hadn't thought about before, or, I mean, it's all pretty, I mean, [00:28:00] none of this stuff is like revolutionary in the sense, like they're all like everyday tips.
And so there were some things I was like, oh yeah, it makes sense. But I kind of forget about that sometimes, but anything like that really struck out to you as you stuck out to you as you.
Nathan: Yeah, there, there is a couple, you know, like one was a Interestingly enough, and this isn't even like the cool manly one.
It was how to begin meditation and the value of it and like what that looks like. And that was a good reminder for me because during the pandemic I was, you know, a lot of times this was going nuts. I was going crazy, locked up in my little apartment and I remember. How important sitting still in the presence of God was.
And so part of me writing, like how do we meditate? Well how do we sit still? How do we, it just exists in the presence of God. And here's kind of a a guide to help you do. That was for me because I needed to remember that in my own life. And then of course, you know, I like, I love the book lists anything with books where I can go through all my favorite, you know, fantasy [00:29:00] novels are always fun.
And yeah, the workout ones were painful, man. Cause I definitely didn't work out as much as I should have during the during the, but there's also a good recipe in there. Which is what was originally called quarantine stew that me and my wife invented during. During the pandemic and we didn't have anything in the house.
And we just made this stew with what, you know, the few cans we had and it turned out really good. So check out the corn team, stew recipe. I'm pretty proud of that.
Tony: What, what what did you learn about Kings that maybe you didn't know before you wrote the book? Because there is the theme. Of Kings is as woven pretty deep from their armor to all of the different parts of, you know, what it means to be an ancient king.
What was kind of w what were some of your big takeaways? I mean, obviously the letters were a huge part and, and you know, as I read that, I thought, man, something I should think about for my sons, but I'm curious, what what'd you learn about Kings that you didn't know before?
Nathan: [00:30:00] Yeah, I think a lot of it was a lot of this.
We knew right about Kings and, and, and different facts and stuff. But diving into these things we knew and seeing how they played out was really interesting to me. Like, like when you, when you look at we've, we all know the Kings have counselors, but when you look at how integral the counselors in the life of the king were and how they shaped what the king thought and what he did, and then, you know, another one that was super interesting to me as a, you know, as, as looking into Kings researching Kings, it's amazing what it maybe looks different.
And there, there are differences. Obviously. It's interesting to see that with an, almost every culture throughout history, around the globe, we had this concept of king someone who is either a good king or a bad king who ruled over, who helped, who provided. And so it was interesting to see this concept of king pop-up in every culture, around the globe throughout history.
And then. God come in. He steps into history and says, I am the [00:31:00] king of Kings. And so he's saying that through the entire world. And again, it's interesting to see how humans without even maybe perhaps having the knowledge of God still modeled they, they took the, the, the image of what. What should be right.
So we think of God as a provider, a lover, someone who protects us, who watches out for us, who you know, is a good king. And it's interesting to see how every culture emulated that whether they knew God or not, there's kind of this intrinsic thing that we know we need in want in our societies, in our lives.
And so what God is the king of Kings, he has asked us to be. Kings under him to rule well, what's an hour life. So it's just interesting to see that that can grow and see that around throughout history and around the world, we've all had this idea of king so that when God did step in Sam, the king of Kings people got it.
They knew because this is something every culture had experienced and knew well and understood.
Tony: I'm in a season of life [00:32:00] where I have two young men in my house Connor and Caleb Connor is 16 and Caleb is 12. And so we're, we're kind of hitting this kind of maybe even with the 16 year old, we may have already missed the peak window, but, but as I look at this, one of the questions I had is if you had any insights on how you would raise a future king,
Nathan: Well, the first one, and this is coming from a guy who doesn't have kids yet.
So I'm going to have a lot of strong opinions on how to raise kids, not having kids over here for all of them.
Tony: We're here for all of them.
Nathan: Well, you're going to have even better insight than me, but you know, the, the one that comes to mind is the one that, you know, I experienced my family and is to raise future Kings.
You need to be giving them a vision. Of a current king by that, I mean, You know, if you're a dad and I, and I, and please let me know if I'm wrong. I want you to speak to this cause [00:33:00] you know, and I, and I don't yet, but I saw my own dad, but if you're a dad and you have kids and you have any, you have boys and you want them to grow up with honor and respect and goodness and love and gentleness and strength.
Those are all the things that you need to be displaying every single day to them, to their mom, to their sisters. To the, their coworkers, to the people around them. If, if you want them to have an aspect of mainly as in your life, a a character that is something you have to display because all the psychology I've read, interestingly enough, says that.
Pretty much kids learn to emulate everything that their parents do. And that can be for good and bad. So basically all your bad habits are gonna be picked up by your kids and all your good ones too. And so the first, but I say this to people who aren't too, aren't who aren't dads as well, even who aren't necessarily raising Kings.
If you want to say. The people around you become stronger, [00:34:00] better, more holistic holistically, good and whole godly people. That's something you need to take on because I promise you it might not be your sons, but you have, you have people around, you have coworkers. Someone's looking at you and. And how you act will change the world around you, both in the context of a family or in the context of the church or a workplace or a friendship, how we act and how we live our lives is going to affect the people around us.
And that, that will be mimicked by the people around us. So yeah, I'd say the first step of raising good Kings is to learn to be a king, a good king use.
Tony: Yeah, I think that feels right. I was thinking my initial reaction was intentional time, you know, and you know, like letting letting that young.
Younger, you know, young man have access. You know, I think that that's one of the that's that's probably, and that feels right on, you know, like [00:35:00] they can't see your life, if you don't let them close enough to see. So it feels very connected. I think. So I think that's, that's spot on. And I look, look forward to, if, if God calls you to have a family that.
Watching you raise future Kings. I think that would be fun, especially with all the work that you've done in this field. So,
Nathan: Oh man, it's too much pressure now too much pressure. Good man. And the way, I don't know if I can live up to that.
Tony: One of the, one of the last sections of the book, you, you wrote a sentence that really stuck out to me and I'm gonna read part of it.
It says most want to be part of a great narrative. But not all are willing to do what it takes to live a life worth value. And those, those words really rung true to me. And I began to think about some of our community because I F I feel a sense that the people who listen to our podcast and are part of these conversations, they want [00:36:00] something more.
And so if, if you were going to give them a first step. The first step of living into a great narrative a whoa, what would it be?
Nathan: The first step, I guess, for me, as I think of the journey I took into in to seeing that. One, you know, this sounds cliche, but you have to connect with your creator, the author, the director of this, of this narrative.
And the way to connect to him is through prayer and reading his word. He wrote his wisdom. He came here, he incarnated and we have access to him. We have access to God, which is crazy when you think about it, but we do. And so the. To begin understanding yourself and a narrative is to get to know the narrative writer, the one who created you, and to understand yourself as a character in this [00:37:00] narrative.
You need to know who you were created to be, that you need to know the story you created to tell. So you have to begin that connection with God and I, and you know, that's not popular to say, you know, people want, but it is. It's just the most. And first necessary thing is you have to start valuing your relationship with God and that's reading scripture, which will give you an understanding of the values God's had and the story he's telling for the world.
And it'll also. Give you an understanding for who you are and who you were created to be. And then it's having that connection and relationship with your creator every single day, that will continue to guide your choices and then guide your decisions on this narrative journey. And ultimately, I think that's the first place and it might be.
I think that might be the whole shebang, but it's when you do that, you start capturing this vision. Right? I think a lot of men right now, we're just living with kind of, oh, it's just random. I can do what I want, whatever it's nothing's means. Anything you nihilism is kind of the religion of the day.
Nothing means anything, right? Yeah. [00:38:00] At least for a lot of men. And when you capture the vision. That your choices that your life is eternally important. I think all of a sudden it puts everything in perspective and context in which everything you do matters. And so when you connect with your creator, you were given this context in this perspective of who you are.
The store you're in and suddenly your decisions, your choices and your life matters. And so capturing that vision for yourself in a story as a character that God has designed you to be well, I think ultimately change your life for the better. And it, it, I would say it definitely has for mine. But yeah, the first place to start is if you want to know what character you're playing in and what stories being told, get to know the creator, artists and writer and creator view.
That's beautiful.
Tony: Okay. I have one more question for you, but before I ask it I know that my listeners are going to want to connect with you all over the interwebs. Where is the best place to to [00:39:00] see what God's doing in you and through you, and to get connected with all the resources that you have.
Nathan: Yeah, you can, you can visit my website, Nathan clarkson.me. You can find out more about me, all this stuff I'm kinda up to. You can also find me on any of the socials. I'm not great at social media, but I do check it and I love getting a, you can see some updates from my life. So just search my name, Nathan Clarkson on Instagram, Facebook, any of those.
And you can also check me out on my. With my friends talking about deep things while having fun called the overthinkers and that's, those are the places that you can find me. And I'd love to hear from you. I always love connecting with like-minded.
Tony: If you love his podcasts, like I do. You may also want to check out the Facebook group, the overthinkers Facebook group, which is a fun group of deep thinkers.
It's full of memes. And you know, it's, it's a, it's a really, I dunno, it's just a, it's a really interesting curated group of people who are the right amount of nerd [00:40:00] and faith. And I just love that. I just really appreciate it.
Nathan: Yeah. It's, it's so much fun, you know, somehow. Gathered this really diverse audience.
We have Christians and unbelievers left and right. But we all kind of gather around, let's think deeply about things and have fun. And we try to keep make sure that everyone is keeps an upbeat spirit towards each other. It's so much fun. We'd love to have anyone join that they a lot of fun to have Naveah.
Tony: Okay. Last question. I always love to ask people. It's an advice question, except I get to take you back to a specific time and. You know, I was thinking a lot about this question as it pertains to you. And, and I think since I've known you and that really the beginning of the pandemic your life has drastically shifted, you know, in the sense of, of marriage.
And you've cranked out a couple of books and you've been in a couple of films. And and even though it's not that long ago, if you could pull up in front [00:41:00] of Nathan the day after. The world's shut down. So it was, that was that March 13th or depending on where you were somewhere around there. If you could look that younger version of yourself in the eyes and give them one piece of advice for the journey he's about to go on.
What do you tell them?
Nathan: Oh man. It's I thought I was going to have to think about it, but I immediately know. And it's interesting. I think of all the times in scripture, when someone showed us, someone out of the blue showed up to someone in a weird way and Jules God and the thing they always say, and I was, I was a little cheesy.
Right. Is peace be with you and But there's a reason for that. And you know, I don't know the whole reason. God has his reasons, but as I look about the last few years I experienced, man, they've been, they've been rough, they've been hard. And I think that's been the experience for a lot of people.
And. I think [00:42:00] that part of what made them rough was me believing I could control things. I could, I could change things. I could fix things. I could do things. And it was taking on a responsibility of God's for myself, you know? Cause I do think we're called to be Kings, but ultimately he's the king of Kings and there.
And what I would've said to young two years ago, Nathan is PSP with. Let peace rule your life. Yes. Do the things you're meant to yes. You know, chase and, and do and accomplish and all those things. But ultimately the heart of it is God loves you. He's in control. Peace be with you. So that's what I would say to me.
And that's what I think I needed. And I still need to be saying that to myself every day, Nathan peace, be with you and, and allowing God to say that to me and listening to him when he says and taking him seriously, because I'm not a person who is naturally oriented towards peace. I want to do I'm, you know, that, that Peter, that David didn't want to do, I want to go out and figure it out and fix.
And sometimes I need to say like, God, tell me Nathan, peace, be with you [00:43:00] rest. I got this, you know, so that, that is definitely the first. I know that's what I'd say to Nathan.
Tony: Amen. That's a, probably a good word for all of us. Nathan, thank you so much for this resource. Thank you for the connection over the years and, and thank you for your generosity of time today.
I always enjoy talking to.
Nathan: Tony. Thank you so much for having me. It's always a pleasure.
Tony: Well, guys, that was a great conversation with him. I also recommend that you go back and check out episode 73, as a reminder, leave a rating review on podcasts or on apple podcasts or on Spotify. All the reviews go along way.
I'm so thankful to have each and every one of you in our community. I'm thankful to be on this journey with you. Don't forget. Brand new episode coming out this Friday, we're doing twice a week over the summer from may, at least until the end of July. Love to get your feedback on that as always, the best way to reach me is on Instagram or Twitter at TW Milt, or [00:44:00] check out our web page reclamation podcast.com.
Remember guys, if you want to follow Jesus, you must be willing to move.
