#171: Percy McCray: Health, Hope & Inspiration
Rev. Percy McCray Jr. has spent more than 20 years ministering to cancer patients and their caregivers at Cancer Treatment Centers of America® (CTCA). He recognizes cancer care ministry as a special calling from God and considers faith a key, but often overlooked, a component of cancer treatment.
We talk about the local church, ministering through the ahrd things, and so much more!
Links:
https://www.healthhopeandinspiration.com/
https://leaders.ourjourneyofhope.com/
EP. 171
Tony: [00:00:00] Hey everybody. Welcome back to the reclamation podcast, where our goal is to help you reclaim good practices for following Jesus. I'm your host. My name is Tony. This is episode 171. Where I sit down with pastor hope, seeker and leader in the faith community, Percy McCray. You're gonna love Percy. If you know anyone that has ever experienced any pain from cancer.
He is the executive director of the, our journey of hope cancer care ministry. And we're gonna talk about what it means to minister, to people who suffer from cancer in the local church. We're gonna talk about lament. We're gonna talk about hope, the conflict of it all. This is an episode that you'll want to not only.
Listen to probably more than once. You're gonna wanna share it with your friend. Hey, and if this impacts [00:01:00] your heart in any way, shape or form, do me a favor. Hit that subscribe button, wherever you listen to podcast, leave a rating or review on iTunes or Spotify and the best compliment you can give us.
Share this episode with a friend every time you share it. It really does get the word out about what God is doing on the podcast. Hey, I'm really thankful for you. And I'm thankful for this conversation with Percy. I know you're gonna love it. So let's jump into it right now. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the podcast.
I'm excited today to be here with pastor Percy McCray, pastor Percy. Thank you so much for being here.
Percy: My friend, it's a privilege and it's an honor. Thank you for inviting me and allowing me to have access to your audience as we continue to share the good news of who God is through his risen son.
So absolutely a pleasure. Amen now.
Tony: I I'm really interested. I, I was gonna list all of the accolades and all the different things that you do, but I thought maybe the first question to ask is really H how [00:02:00] would you describe the calling that God has placed on your life?
Percy: That's a great question. I don't think anyone has ever asked me that as an opening thought.
And so I appreciate that. Because it's very unorthodox UN unorthodox to say the least the calling that I have is to empower a segment of our community on, on how to mentally and emotionally and spiritually push back against. A bully in their life cancer. I work with the cancer community now going on three decades, I just celebrated an anniversary of 26 years.
Two weeks ago.
Tony: You must have started when you were 10.
Percy: Well, I, you know what, I appreciate that my friend and and, and what I wish I had. Started just a little bit earlier, but the Lord's timing is always the best. Right? Amen. But I grew up on the far south side of Chicago and we hear a lot of stories about the south side of Chicago and sure.
Unfortunately, a lot of it is true. It's a, it's a tough environment where you have to develop some thick [00:03:00] skin and you have to learn how to push. Against negative forces that are trying to drag you in a particular direction, whether that be drugs or alcohol gang violence criminal activity. And that's not all of the south side of Chicago, but certainly it's a major part of the inner city life experience.
And when I became available or when I made myself available for what I do today, After graduating from Bible college through a very serendipitous relationship that introduced me to an organization called cancer treatment centers of America. I knew nothing about them as an organization. And my intent as I had graduated from Bible college in Oklahoma, was to go back into, to the city of Chicago and start my local church and become a pastor.
And I eventually did do that, but before I did. I started working in the arena of healthcare and supporting cancer patients with spirituality and faith. And there was no [00:04:00] real interest or intrigue. And I didn't know anyone that ever did that, but once I started in this space in understanding what the fight is for cancer patients, mental, emotional, physical, and spiritual they're fighting back against a bully cancer is a bully that is trying.
Take their lunch money. If I, if I can use that expression and say that you can't go here, you can't do that. You can't be this. You can't be that. And over now, close to 30 years I've supported hundreds of thousands of cancer patients that I've been able to be blessed to be a part of their life, to enable them to do, to be, and to go places that cancer suggested that they could not.
And as a result, all I do all day long is help people fight back against the bully. So I'm a bully fighter and that's what my ministry is because cancer is a bully, but there can be a blessing in being a cancer patient. And we can talk about that in terms of what can come out of a cancer journey and a cancer [00:05:00] experience.
And for people who've never had cancer, that's gonna be very hard for them to psychological. Wrap their head around, but it is absolutely true. And I can speak to that very formidably in terms of my own personal life and the lives of people that I've supported.
Tony: Yeah. There there's so many different questions I wanna ask.
I let's start here is I, I would imagine that every person that you minister to is different. Everyone has a different story. Everyone has a D. Prognosis and diagnosis. I, I, I CA I've never met people who have the same two types of cancer experiences. I would imagine that you have to be led by the Lord on how you handle every single piece of ministry.
So I'm, I'm really interested to hear your answer to this question. How do you discern God's voice? In moments of movement and action, whether that be moving across the country to a new home, or how you minister to the, to the cancer patient in [00:06:00] front of you, how do you know it's God's voice and not just what, what Percy wants to do?
Percy: Wow. That's a great question because it's so universal. It's such a universal principle and applicable because at the end of the day, we are all we live in an environment, particularly in this day and age. We are bombarded with many voices that are trying to instruct. Or, or, or suggest to us what to do, what to be, where to go, what to think.
And the bottom line to this question, and this is across the board is that we have to always be steeped in the word of God. First and foremost, we know that first where the will of God, where, where the word of God is, is where his known will is that then gives us a framework of things to consider and then to process.
And then of course, from. It is being in tune with, in fellowship with the holy spirit. We know that he comes to dwell inside of us to lead yeah. And guide us into all truth. And [00:07:00] so when you put those two principles together, The holy spirit will never lead you contrary to what the word of God is instructing you to do or be.
And when you're able to link those two together and then get a clearance, a peace in your, in your consciousness, in your heart in terms of making decisions or things that you need to do or your're contemplating to do, then you can have confidence in relying upon. I have applied the word of God. I have sought the holy spirit who is going to affirm what God has said.
And then I make my decisions and my directions based upon those two principles in my life. And then that's where we then turn to the third dynamic. We walk by faith and we, and not by sight because now we're gonna have to step. And launch out and do something or, or transition somewhere or whatever. And that can be a scary proposition, but at the end of the day, having the word of God and having the spirit of [00:08:00] God and orchestration and concert one with another, that then we then surrender and E wees our own will and desires to will help give us a framework of direction of going forward.
My friend.
Tony: Well, that's really good. And, and what I hear in there is the intimacy that you have with the Lord. And so that is correct. It it's clear that this is not a, you know, that this has come over time. So I, I imagine somebody's listening and they're like, I want that. And, and so it sounds like it just, it happens over time.
And I, I was thinking about time in your life. And before we hit record you, you let me know. You were a, a three year cancer free yourself. Yeah. You went from being the pastor to the patient. And then I, I was just thinking as, as I was looking at time and, and kind of this timeline in my notes, I went, wow, this, this man went straight from, you know, fighting cancer to fighting C and, and this stretch of time in your life, the last five or six years how have [00:09:00] you stayed?
On target with what God is calling you to, because I would imagine it feels like you've gotta be boxing Ali right now.
Percy: Yeah. well, you're absolutely right. My, my diagnosis came shortly, just before COVID hit and we all were impacted by COVID in so many different ways. And still there are residual impacts with regard to COVID even as we record and speak today.
And for me, what COVID did. To me. And for me behind my cancer diagnosis is that I recall the apostle Paul saying that, that he has learned how to become circumspect in the king James version of the Bible, the word circumspect, it's an old king James language term. And, and the word circle comes from the word circle or circumference.
That, that, when I was told that I had cancer here I am 20 plus years supporting cancer patients. I've been on TV radio. Large platforms, small platforms. You name it, I've done it. I've been on the 700. [00:10:00] I've been to Israel. I mean, I've, I I've done, I've done everything that one may think that they can do with this subject and, and hundreds and thousands of people that I've ministered to.
And then I'm told that I have cancer. And the first thing that it made me do, my friend, it made me become circumspect. It made me. step on the outside of myself and look into myself, which is what Paul was saying. That I've learned how to, how to be circumspect and to look at examine and begin to assess and analyze.
Who am I? What am I, what have I done? Why am I doing what I am doing? Am I grounded and rooted? Do I really believe do I, do I know what I believe and do I know why I believe it? Can I really answer that question? Because cancer. Will force you to ask hard questions. Yeah. That, that no other type of scenario really forces one to do, because it forces you to think about your mortality.
It forces you to think about [00:11:00] what if I die from this disease. And of course the good news is from a clinical perspective within the last 15, 20 years, more people are living and surviving about of cancer than any time ever before. So I want people to be encouraged today. If you are told that you have cancer, cancer is not necessarily a death wish cancer is considered to be a chronic disease that can be managed in most cases, but it forces you to take stock of your life.
It forces you to think about. What's important, then COVID comes right behind that and forces you to, to be isolated and to be secluded. Yeah. That you have to shut it down. So even more opportunity for examination, for reflection for, for real honest in inspection of who are you and what are you doing?
And I remember at that time, it it's, it's very interesting. I had a scenario presented to me. Pro six months before I was diagnosed with cancer with regard to a leadership opportunity. And I remember the Lord saying to me one [00:12:00] of the issues that he has in the earth realm today is he, he doesn't have enough effective leaders, not important, not big or prominent.
Effective leadership is what our, our world is suffering from. And he said, will you be an effective leader based upon what my criteria is? And then an opportunity was presented and it was more difficult than I thought it was. And I agreed to do so. And then six months later I was diagnosed with cancer.
So it, it all focused me around the idea of. Of being everything that God has called me to be, and to dig deep and to, and to make sure that I was anchored in all that I knew about him and what I understood about him and being the best version of myself on behalf of the kingdom. And I think that that was one of the things that we talked about before we recorded about expanding the [00:13:00] kingdom disciple.
Et cetera, et cetera, you know, touching one person at a time, touching two people at a time, this is not necessarily about a big church or a big ministry or a TV ministry. This is about being effective, where God places you, for those individuals that are assigned to you. And I said, yes, then cancer took place.
And then COVID came behind that. So it really was like, okay, this is, this is a bit much . And then I'll add to that, my friend and then my, my mother-in-law. And then my father-in-law shortly died right behind each other, almost a year and a half. So I was helping to support my wife who was having a really tough time.
And it all forced me back to the foot of the cross and to get on my knees and to determine is Jesus Lord, or is he not? And that's exactly what I did. Wow.
Tony: Yeah. I love that. Well, I love anything that takes us back to the cross, right? Yeah. Like that's, it's just a good place to [00:14:00] be. I, I am curious, you know, you had done ministry in cancer centers of America for, for 20 years before you received your own diagnosis.
Yep. Talking about the idea of effectiveness when you received that diagnosis, did. did it change the way that you decided you were gonna do ministry going forward? And did you look back on previous ministry and wonder if you had made I won't, I won't say mistakes, but if, if, if, if you would've done some things differently, I'm, I'm curious about the perspective yeah.
That a cancer diagnosis would give you after being in the field.
Percy: Yeah. Yeah. It's it's interesting. A cancer diagnosis definitely will. We'll force you to examine your perspective and it will give you perspective. It's one of the blessings of cancer. And I want to say with all of the compassion and sympathy in my heart, for anyone that is listening or watching this who has cancer, who have just entered into cancer, one of the biggest blessings of cancer is that [00:15:00] it forces you to gain perspective and to crystallize.
A perspective. And so to answer your question, both things were impacted by my cancer diagnosis from this perspective. And it was number one that it, it reinforced the fact that for lack of a better term, I had, I had and have the greatest job in the world. Yes. Serving cancer patients, being in the cancer community.
And I always felt a privilege and an honor. But it reinforced the fact that when I finally showed up for my job, thank God that he didn't give my job to anyone else. He held my position for me because the path by which I walked to get to this was very unlikely and could not have been charted out consciously at all.
It was all God, I look back to Dan. I try to understand how I even got. It is truly amazing and the places I've been and the people that I've been exposed to [00:16:00] have opportunity to minister, to dignitaries professional athletes people of wealth and power and stature I've been on people's private planes.
I've been in their estates all because of the ministry and the work that God has afforded to me, that there were individuals in those spaces. That I was allowed to enter into, to help support them and help them work through that challenge. So it, it reinforced the fact that there are, there are zero regrets.
I was more grateful after I was diagnosed with cancer than ever before that I had D I am doing exactly. What God has called me to do. And in terms of what I would do better or different with re with respect to ministry is the fact that what basically God said to me is I need you to double down on this ministry.
I need you to do more of what you're doing. It just again, it was like, okay. And it, and it really energized me. And it really invigorated me in a way, because just [00:17:00] like anything else over an extended period of time, you can kind of get into kind of an automatic mode kind of scenario. You know, you just kind of.
And not that I was ever just going through the motions, but again, a lot of what I am doing and have done, I've done so much of it. A lot of it was just muscle memory. And one of the dynamics about cancer ministry is every to your point, your opening comments. Everybody's journey is very different and very unique and is very specific to them.
And you can't go to a unique scenario with your pre inscribed idea of what you think ministry to a cancer patient is. You've got to be open to the fluidity, the fluidity of the holy spirit that may need to take you in a very different direction than you did with someone else previously. And you have to be open to that so that you can be a clean slate that he can then just.
Wash over you and then work through you. And then you get out of the way and allow the anointing to do what it's there to [00:18:00] do. So it just focused me around. I am extremely more grateful today than ever before for the ministry that I've had the opportunity to work in and that to double down with regard to the scope of what I do.
And I'm, I'm in the process of working on some other things to expand that work in a very meaningful way and that. God is not done with me yet in any, by any stretch of the imagination.
Tony: I love what you talk about when it comes to fluidity and, and taking it one case at a time. I'm also acutely aware that you don't just work with cancer patients.
You also work with pastors and church leaders, and you work with your, your staff there at all of your treatment centers. And you. Appropriately called cancer of a bully. And I was thinking about that as I was listening to you talk about the holy spirit. And I thought, I thought, man, this is a bully that just doesn't go away.
Hmm. Right. And, and so I, I'm curious if you could speak to the person who might be on the [00:19:00] verge of burnout. Who, who might be on the verge of feeling like they're up against something that is just relentless, whether that be cancer or COVID, or not enough employees or you know, teachers C certainly have, I I've seen this over and over again in our community.
I, I think that you probably have a really good word for us on On how to battle a bully that won't go away.
Percy: Yeah. Yeah. I, I do, again, I was bullied as a kid growing up on the south side of Chicago, had my lunch money taken from me, going back and forth home from school, you know my mom who is steeped in the, in the philosophy and principles of Christianity.
It reinforced the fact that, you know, turn the other cheek, you know, be a peacekeeper love people, forgive people. Mm-hmm . And so growing up in an environment where on, on, on some occasions, violence was part of the activity of the day. I, I was very conflicted at times because my dad, on the other side of the equation, it's kind of an old school.
Like, [00:20:00] you know, like, listen, you do what you gotta do if somebody, you know, and so what I learned from that was, again, that. Through the spirit of God, God will empower and equip you mentally and emotionally and physically, when we talk about cancer patients, but to, to universally address the audience that you put into this example of this question, what COVID did for all of us, it, it, it forced our backs up against the wall we had to the wall mm-hmm we had to reengineer reimagine.
Staffing equipment expenses office space. I mean, everything was impacted by COVID that no one could have prepared for. So I think of the apostle Paul, who talks about when he said that he went to God and Christ on several occasions and prayed about. This thorn in his flesh. Yeah. And theologically, there's a lot of different debates about what the thorn in his flesh was.
Was it a physical ailment? Was it the fact that he was being pressed by the [00:21:00] enemy for the nature of the work that he did. And, and so he was always constantly working through challenges or circumstances, but I wanna take all of that off the table and say whatever the bully. Of your day that is confronting you while you're trying to move in a direction, whether that's staffing, whether that's having enough resources whether having enough mental and emotional capacity many people during COVID have to start doing jobs of two or three people, you know because of people who, who got out of the work environment and decided to do something different, et cetera, et cetera.
The principle from the scripture of the apostle. Paul said that he went to Christ on three separate occasions and God, and said, Lord, please take this, this from me. And the response to him was, no, I will not. He said that my grace is sufficient for you. And here is the principle because when you are weak, when you have exhausted all that you can do in your, in your own capacity [00:22:00] and.
Is when I can kick in and do what you cannot do. And how many of us really get to the place that we empty ourselves to allow God to step in and really drive our car, or we're still kind of driving the car a little bit while we're saying we're letting him drive the car. And in those scenarios, when you get depleted and you have nothing else by way of resources or ability to, to muster up in and of yourself, This is when.
And so the scripture says that when I am weak, I've learned that's when I am strong, because that's when the power of Christ. Rest upon me and what many of us should have learned. And hopefully we'll be learning is that we are learning to rely more upon God's ability and not so much our ability. I'm not the smartest guy in the room, mark.
I'm not, you know, I'm IM not the quickest, you know, guy at the end of the day, I'm [00:23:00] anointed to do a specific thing. And the more that I allow. To drive that and be the source of my strength. The more that then it takes me away from having to muster up my own ability and my own capacity. And I begin to draw upon that, which is endless because I can do all things through Christ as well as someone listening to me today.
If you are truly called or positioned somewhere, you need to draw upon the strength of Christ that can renew you. restore you and revive you. And though everyone else may be going cuckoo, you know, co Coco for Coco puffs. We are being grounded and rooted in the fact that our strength comes from above and not because of ourselves and from within, because when I am weak, my friend, that's when I am strong, because the power of Christ then can rest upon me.
Hey, everybody just pausing this conversation
Tony: with Percy to remind you [00:24:00] that. This podcast is a ministry of spirit and truth. And one of the ways that you can support the podcast is to become a monthly giver, to spirit and truth. All of the proceeds that we raise over at the 5 0 1 C three spirit and truth goes back into ministries.
Like this one goes into supporting our podcast network. Our digital magazine, firebrand and helping equip and awaken the local church in areas of disciple, making evangelism and wisdom around the holy spirit. So go find out more about spirit and truth by checking out their website, spirit and truth.life.
And to become a monthly giver, go to spirit and truth.life/give. Now let's finish up this convers. With pastor Percy. Yeah. That makes, that makes complete sense to me. And I can also think that there's someone who's listening right now. They're probably in their car on the treadmill, or maybe they're mowing the grass and they're like, pastor, I want that.
I want that. What, what's the [00:25:00] first step, if we're gonna drill down to like the tactical practical, what's the first step to drawing on the strength of the Lord when. You feel like you're
Percy: drowning. Yeah. And, and I've experienced this, you my LA the last again, let's go back to my journey. The last three, four years for me has been again a cancer diagnosis.
My, my mother-in-law, my father-in-law passing away, my work environment and space drastically changing and shifting resources staffing. So I, I have walked this and, and, you know, there were some nights and some days I was just like, man, Lord, I don't know what else I'm supposed to do here. Or I don't know what the answer is to this.
And when I finally got to a place of that, and I said, so, tactically again, First of all getting back into his word. What does the word of God say to me today about my situation? Number one, and then calling upon [00:26:00] the ministry of the holy spirit, the ministry of the holy spirit is he is active and he is engaged.
Yeah. With us in real time. That's not some, that's not an experience that you only get when you go. A highly charged worship service, or when you come from a great conference, he is the, he is the the comforter who comes to lead and guide us. He's coming to walk with us every day of every situation. And for me, there was some scenarios where I simply said, I don't know what else I can do with this.
And I don't know what else I am going to do with this situation. And when I got to that point, I said, Lord, I give this to you. I just, I gotta stop. I can't. Keep mulling this over in my brain, trying to figure out where my next resource or staff scenario or whatever that dynamic is, or that challenge if, if this is to be what you want it to be, and you're still wanting me to do this.
I've got to give this to you. And I gotta, I just gotta go lay down. I gotta let it go. I gotta, so then I would [00:27:00] figure out a way to go do something like, okay. You know, Percy, you know, go, go see a movie, you know, you take your wife out to dinner somewhere and then leave that. You gotta let that sit it down because you can't carry.
That burden because it just weighs you down. And so all ye who are burden and heavy Laden come unto me and I will give you rest. The scripture says, yeah. And that's a, and that can be a daily thing. It can be a weekly thing. So it's not a one and done proposition because we wanna keep this conversation a 100.
We wanna keep it real with the audience here. You know, there's no Superman standing on top of the mountain with a Cape flowing in the air with theme music in the background. This is real gorilla warfare that we've got to walk through this jungle or this valley of the shadow of death though. I walk through the valley.
Of the shadow of our fear, no evil because that rod and that staff comforts me. So we've got to draw upon that rod, [00:28:00] that staff and then we have to utilize those elements because we have to remind ourselves it's really about reminding ourselves. I believe Joyce Meers wrote a great book many years ago saying that the battlefield is the mind.
It's about reminding ourselves psychologically and mentally that God has this. That he's not requiring me to make it happen by myself. And I have to continually work on the gymnastics of letting that go and going well, I gotta figure it out. I've got to come up with a solution and that does not absolve us from doing our part.
Because there are things that we are required to do. I still gotta do a report. I still have to show up at a finance meeting or whatever, but once I've done all that I know to do and stand thereby and stand forevermore, I continue to lean on the everlasting arms of he who is, and he who it was. And he who is yet to come and say, father today, I commend myself and this [00:29:00] into your hands.
And whatever happens after. It is only because of what you do. It is not because of, I, I, I, at this point I can't be responsible for the outcome. And for me, I can just say this. The Lord has never, me and my wife were talking about this. The Lord has never not shown up ever. and met my need. He is, it has never not happened.
I'm gonna say this again. Now it may, he, he may have met that need in a way that I did not anticipate or calculate,
but he has or wanted or wanted that's exactly right. But he has never not met that need that when it was all said and done, I was like, I don't really know how I got that done. And it was all because of the Lord, but I showed up to. Because impact players play injured. Yeah. Impact players play injured, all of the great sports athletes who do phenomenal things they play when they're hurt.
So believers today, that doesn't mean that you don't get to show up, but [00:30:00] you show up, even if you're hurt. Or even if you're hurting or you're struggling, but you show up and you strap up and you say today, God, it's you and me. And we're gonna figure out a way to work through this and you put that into his care.
And so tactically, that's what I've been able to do. And there's been some stressful days and nights that I've had that I've had to work through in the Lord has always, he's always shown up for me. Because he's faithful.
Tony: Yes. It it's I love that plan, right. It's simple, but not easy. You start with the word, you then invoke the holy spirit and then you surrender to that.
You're not God. And, and all three of those steps are hard.
Percy: It's work. It's w O R K it's w O RRK.
Tony: I, I am curious. One, one of the people that I'm really close to a family member she she's a cancer, cancer free currently cancer survivor. And one of the things that she talks about a lot is toxic positivity.[00:31:00]
Oh. And so she she's, she's very passionate about it because I, I think it. I don't wanna speak for her, but my take is that it, it sometimes felt like people wouldn't let her feel her feelings. And so I I'm curious what your thoughts are on empathy and, and positivity and toxic positivity and kind of the connection to all of that is as, as we listeners.
Maybe on the side where we need empathy or maybe on the side where we need to give empathy. How, how do we live into
Percy: that tension? Listen, that this is a phenomenal point. I was just on moody radio this morning. I do a 20 minute segment once a month on their morning drive show with Ray Dawn and Steve, and they're fantastic.
And we talked about one of these, one of the points that I shared was very much this point right here, first and foremost we need to, to, to, to be conscious and careful of what I call being job's [00:32:00] friends. Hmm. The, and, and philosophically job's friends were well intentioned, but they were, but they were not well instruc.
Tony: Say it again. Yeah. For the please,
Percy: they were well intentioned, but they weren't well instructed. And, and job's friends basically came to job and said, man, what did you do to incur all of this devastation in your life? And it wasn't because they didn't care about job and it wasn't that they didn't love job, but they were trying to psychologically use rationale to speak to.
Cause and affected his life. And this, this in many cases is a burden that believers have that we will default to whatever our proclivity is of thought and how we associate with the world around us. And then we will try to project that on an individual under the guise of support. So we're well, intention.
but we're not well [00:33:00] instructed. Yeah. And so with regard to toxic positiv, positivity is just the opposite of that is that you, you go into an engagement say with a cancer patient or somebody who's. Having a tough time with a situation and you, and you feel like you're going to just, you need to smother them with just all of this great love and this hope and this powerful energy.
And what you do is that you are not allowing the opportunity for that person to be able to do something that's very important for believers for anyone. And that is to emote. The Bible says that confession. It's good for the soul. And we tend to take that scripture and we use it in a one sided conversation, but confession is about anything that you need to say that you need to release out of you because we're like a container.
And there are things that, that are in us that are just building and growing that we need to release and let go. And so we need to give [00:34:00] cancer patients permission. To express what they're feeling and what they're thinking, even if it is not quote unquote positive, even if it seems like it's something that, you know, like, girl, don't say that, I don't know why they, we need to give them the ability and the opportunity to express what they're thinking.
Cuz cancer patients particularly. The ebb and flow. The fluidity of being a cancer patient can change very drastically and it can change on a day to day basis depending on what their dynamics are. And so we need to understand that this is not a sprint. This is a marathon in many cases. And when we come by, we don't need to be job's friends to project.
What we have in our head that we think is in the best interest for them at that time, we need to read the room. Mm, number one, number two, we need to let the cancer patient drive the bus. So for people who are listening, I'm giving [00:35:00] you some nuggets here and you can go to my website, health hope and inspiration.com.
And I have 40 free downloadable resources that carries a ton of this information that you can download free of charge and you can give to family and friends, but we need to let them we need to give them permission to express what's going on inside of them. We need to allow them to drive the bus.
You are not the bus driver. And so you have to be conscious and careful being empathetic and being compassionate is a requirement. But you've got to read the room in terms of what, when and how you can download something into people, because they simply may not be mentally and emotionally. And from a cancer perspective, we have to add the physical component because in many cases, cancer patients don't feel well.
They're tired. They just had an extensive surgery. I remember after my surgery on my second day, man, I was not a fun guy to be around. I just wasn't. It was just, [00:36:00] you know, I literally just had a third of my colon removed. So I tell people to call me semi pastor semi colon, you know, so at the end of the day but I was in pain.
I was hurting. And then after surgery, I was extremely fatigued because my body had been traumatized. From a very significant invasive procedure. So we have to read the room. We have to understand where the, where that person is located at that moment. And at that time before we just bombarded them, you know, I'm gonna just give you the word and I'm just going, you know?
So lemme give you a quick story. This is a true story. So cause there was once upon a time, I was once upon a time I was young and dumb in the ministry. I tell people this all the time I was full of great intentions. But I was not well instructed. So probably my first two or three encounters at the bedside of a cancer patient, man, I come into their room and I'm, I'm, I'm fired up, you know, I've got my Bible under my arm and I'm preaching at him.
And let me tell you what happened with Moses at the red sea and when he had ferals [00:37:00] army and blah, you know, I was in full preach mode, man, and I don't know, 10 minutes into that conversation. The patient was sound. Oh, wow. And it wasn't because I was boring, cuz I'm a pretty good public speaker at the end.
I would guess that. And I'm a pretty decent preacher. If, if, if you, I would
Tony: guess I would guess you're underselling.
Percy: It has nothing to do with that. It had to do with the fact that this person just had a long day of therapy, physical rehabilitation. They've just been given some medication, you know, to kind of help them with their pain, with their nausea.
Their attention span mentally, emotionally, and physically. They couldn't handle all of that. That was not the time nor was that the place. So over the years, I've learned how to come into a room and kind of get a sense of where they're located. How are they feeling? What type of stamina level do they have?
What is it that you're interested in talking about today? [00:38:00] Let the PA read the room. and let the patient drive the bus that, and then allow the, the, the inspiration of the holy spirit to help you formulate an action plan that will be of value and benefit to the patient. Cuz the only reason why we're there, it has nothing to do with our ministry.
Oh, what a revelation? I thought this was about, I was anointed to preach and teach. This is about how do we best and effectively minister to that person where they are located mentally, emotionally, and physically at that moment. And at that time, and that may shift and that may change, but you need to understand what is their capacity of what they can take and handling for many cancer patients, they get overwhelmed with toxic.
Positivity because every day for a cancer patient is not necessarily a good day and we need to give them permission to say, I don't feel good today. I'm struggling [00:39:00] today. That doesn't mean that they're still not walking by faith. That doesn't mean that they're not trusting in the Lord. They're giving you a temperature reading of what's going on with them at that moment in time.
And that's real talk my friend, and we need to understand and be compassionate to that.
Tony: Yeah, I, I think one of the things I appreciate about the, what I see in your ministry is that it's, it's always real talk. And, and one of the things that I I've seen in your your writing and on your website is that that there is kind of a, a lack.
Of Christians doing Christian things in cancer worlds. Right. And, and, and that's the local church, which is really just the collection of Christ followers. Yep. And so I, I am curious why do you think that so many of us who identify as Christ followers who clearly Christ wanted to heal the sick and walk alongside people and feed the hungry and do the things that are.[00:40:00]
Are tough. Why do you think so many of us in the north American church struggle with standing in a room or, or ministering in a room with someone who's battling cancer?
Percy: Hmm, it's a good question. My, the, the impetus and the foundation of the ministry that I have for the last 20 plus years is, is very much built upon the dynamic of this question.
I think that the, the biggest dynamic here, my friend is, well, there's a couple of things and I want to be respectful. I respect the ministry. I respect ministers. I respect people who are called into the office of, of being shepherds and pastors and teachers. But what I have learned over 20 plus years and not so much today, because I think.
The awakening and the transition of what is going on in our world has really shaken people to kind of reevaluate some things. But I remember initially in the [00:41:00] beginning, man, there were many pastors who were very smug and, and, and quite frankly, very dismissive of the idea of even needing to have a conversation about ministry to cancer patients inside of the local church.
Because after all we pray for our members. Right. We know that prayer is a foundation of Christian belief mm-hmm and it is core to everything that we do. No question about it. I'm gonna be at the national day of prayer. I don't know when this is gonna air, but on May 5th, I'll be at the national day of prayer as an invited guest because I believe in prayer and I know, and we know that the word of God.
Tells us that men ought always to pray without ceasing. So there we, we're not debating the need of prayer, but there was this kind of disposition of that. You know, we have this under control. You know, we we'll give someone a casserole and we'll occasionally visit them at the hospital. And, you know, and then we'll have our, our healing services.
And I believe in healing. I, I, I obviously do. And so, but, but they [00:42:00] felt like that that was the end and be all to the approach of this conversation about cancer. And I think that is two reasons. One is, is arrogance. And the other is fear. Yeah. I think that as a whole, there are still a lot of fear around the subject of cancer.
So just within the last three years, as an example, we've had three of our major figures in the faith community who have contracted cancer and died of cancer, Lu Pau, the great evangelist out of central and south America. He died. I think it was a year or two ago from cancer. Carmen, the great, you know popular Christian artists who revolutionized the concept of live performances and video spreading the gospel, et cetera, et cetera, came from Tulsa, Oklahoma, and, and had this tremendous ministry.
He died last year from cancer. The beloved Dr. Tony Evans I [00:43:00] don't think I've ever heard a single person ever say a bad word about Dr. Tony ever say, not me either. His wife passed away just before COVID took place and they were very public about it. Well cancer has now come and it has hit us. In our leadership and with those who we esteem and we, we, we, we admire and we hold near and dear as our examples of people of faith.
And if you see someone on that level of faith that's being impacted with cancer and then potentially dying from cancer, it could possibly shake one's. Foundation of faith. I'm just a regular Joe going to church every Sunday. I'm not the great Tony Evans or the great Louise pal. I'm just an everyday guy.
I think that there's a fear factor with regard to this disease and understanding it. And that's one of the reasons why the ministry that I started, particularly our journey of hope, which is a free cancer care leadership training program. Well over [00:44:00] 2000, probably closer to 3000 churches that we've trained free on starting cancer care ministries so that we can eliminate and take away and strip away this fear.
I still have believers. And, and if someone's listening to me who has said this, I respectfully ask you to, to think about what I'm about to say that we still, in some cases, refer to cancer as the big C and as being a follower of. Christ who is the big sea. We've got to make a determination, which is the big sea and which is the small sea mm-hmm cancer cannot be the big sea if Christ is the big sea.
So we've got to start in our thinking and our reference point of how we view and look at this disease. From a faith perspective so that then we can begin to change how we address this, but we can't fight an enemy that we don't understand and that we don't know anything about. So part of the training.
It's to give people like a layman's insight of [00:45:00] understanding what is cancer? Well, we don't wanna talk about cancer cuz it's not fun. it's it's not the parking lot ministry. It's not being agreed at the church. It's not singing in the choir. It's not the children's church, a cancer care ministry. That just sounds like a Debbie downer.
Right? Well, if there's a third of your membership potentially being impacted by cancer, according to the American cancer society. One out of three, people are per are projected to be diagnosed with cancer at some point in our lifetime. Well, let's just translate those numbers into the average local congregation.
There's a lot of people potentially sitting in our churches who are trying to come to terms with this disease, but we don't want to talk about it because either we're being very arrogant about it, or we are afraid to confront it and either. We are doing a disservice to our members because they deserve to have Matthew 25.
That if I see that you're hungry, I'm gonna feed you. If I see that you're naked, I'm going to clothe you. And if I see that you're [00:46:00] sick, I'm going to address and attend to your needs, but we cannot attend and address a need of a sickness that we don't want to talk about and that we don't want to embrace, or that we want to dismiss and be arrogant about because I've got news for you.
Just being dismissive about cancer doesn't mean that cancer is going anywhere. Amen. So we, so we need to be real about.
Tony: amen. Amen. So good. Okay pastor, I have one more question for you, but before I ask it I know that there are many people listening right now who are gonna want to know more about your ministry, more about your training, where can they go to learn all things?
Pastor
Percy: Percy. Okay. First and foremost, with regard to, and we've referenced this several times today, our journey of. Dot com it is a free cancer care leadership training program. It is, we'll linked to it. The show notes. Yeah. Our journey of hope.com. You can go there. We have a plethora of information on that website, and most importantly, where you can register for [00:47:00] a free online training opportunity.
It's all free. We will send. All of the curriculum where you can download it and you have all of those resources. And when you become a member, a graduate of our journey of hope, then we have a ton of online a plethora of resources that you can access and use at any time share with any cancer patient that will continue to help build your, your muscle of, of cancer care ministry.
And so we've provided all of that free of charge, our journey of hope. Dot com. And then my second parallel path of ministry and support is of course the format of what we're doing today. I have my own podcast and it's called health hope and inspiration.com. And we interview cancer patients. They're caregivers, doctors, and clinicians, and we have real conversation.
The the, again, the fluidity of being in the cancer [00:48:00] space and what does that mean? But we hear from people who have walked this journey have gone through this journey. They share their testimonies, they share their insights and and that can be accessed and you can subscribe to the show@healthhopeandinspiration.com.
And I have 40 plus free. Downloadable resources, how to talk to children whose parents have cancer. Mm. Financial issues around cancer, nutritional things that you should understand about cancer, things that you should do. I talked about it on a moody radio BI radio moody radio Bible today. How to support the emotional needs of cancer patients.
We've put this all in resources that you can download. All free of charge, go there to day, subscribe and access any of that information and then listen to any of the shows. You'll be blessed and you'll be encouraged and reach out to me. If you have a cancer story that you'd like to tell, reach out to me, and I'll put you on the show and we're recorded.
It's all about [00:49:00] real time and real people about a real situation about the real risen savior.
Tony: Amen. Amen. I man. Whew. Let's take an offering. I'm ready. That's we're going to church okay. Last question. I always love to ask people. It's an advice question. Okay. I'm gonna ask you to give yourself one piece of advice, except I get to name the day.
And and the season of your life. And so, okay. I wanna, I wanna take you back to your very first. I like, thank you. Yeah. I wanna take you back to your very first day. In this career field. And so you, you just finished your first day, you did all your, all your paperwork. You probably walked around a treatment center quite a bit.
You're a young man, you're bright eyed and you're waiting for the world ahead of you. And, and what I wanna invite you to do is just pull a chair up in front of him and, and sit, need a knee with him and look him in the eyes and give him one piece of advice for the journey that he's [00:50:00] about to go on. Yeah.
What are you telling him?
Percy: Man, this is such, this is such a good, I love this. Okay. Thank you. Here's what I would tell that young man, and I've taught this in all of the seminars that I've trained and churches that I've spoken in. So this was an easy question because I, I definitely did not know this day one, I had to learn this and that, and that was, remember.
Percy young man, you're full of vigor. You're tall. You know, you're well spoken. You have charm and charisma you're well dressed, but at the end of the day, this is not about you. Yeah, this is none of this is about you. And, and as soon as you understand, and remember, this is not about how anointed you are, how many scriptures you can quote.
This is only about. Helping to bring people to the foot of the cross and to bring people to the feet of Jesus and whatever you have [00:51:00] to do, whatever that req is required of you to do that. That's what you do. And you forget about whatever it is that it cost you mentally, emotionally, some cases financially that you are here to do one thing and one thing alone.
And that is to get people back into the presence of God. and he is the healer and you are not, don't forget that young.
Tony: Amen. Amen, pastor. Thank you so much for your time today for ministry for your generosity was an absolute blessing to be with you. And I can't wait to stay connected as our as we both continue on and wherever
Percy: God calls us.
Yeah, I, I, I look forward to that and, and thank you for the work that you're doing. And I do a lot of podcasts and a lot of interviews. This is my fourth interview today. And, and, and they're all different, but boy, there was something really special and, and [00:52:00] meaningful differently for me today with regard to the thrust of what you wanting, you're wanting to do with your audience.
So thank you for trusting me in that space. And I pray that there was something that I said today. Help to add either a, a word, a sentence, or a, a statement to the paragraph that you are building out as you speak to your audience. About the love and the faith and the hope of God today. Thank you for that privilege, man.
Tony: I love Percy's heart. I love his enthusiasm. I love the way that he talks about grief and the truth is is if you live and he length of time on this world. You're gonna know somebody who's impacted by cancer, which is why I think it's so important for this conversation to happen in the local church, in, in your life.
So I hope it was a blessing to you. Do me a favor, go follow Percy. Let 'em know that you heard 'em here on the reclamation podcast and don't forget, leave a rating or review [00:53:00] iTunes, Spotify. Get the word out and share this episode with somebody who you think this might help, maybe a church leader or a pastor.
Might need to think about a cancer care ministry. I'm thankful for all you guys later this week, we'll have a monologue episode. Those seem to be received pretty well. So I'm thankful for you. If you wanna make sure that you're in the loop, follow me on Instagram at T mil. That's where I put most of my information out.
And remember guys, if you wanna follow Jesus, you must be willing to move.
