#195: Greg & Leah: I Respectfully Disagree!
In this episode, I have two dear friends who love each other deeply and agree on almost nothing else.
Greg and his daughter Leah sit down with me, and share their story, and their process on how they can see the world so differently while managing to remain each other's biggest fans.
Links:
Greg: Greg@gregfayinsurance.com
Leah: Leahfay88@gmail.com
Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/gregfay66
https://www.facebook.com/leah.fay.313
EP. 195
Tony: [00:00:00] Hey everybody. Welcome back to the Reclamation Podcast, where our goal is to help you reclaim good practices for following Jesus. If we haven't met yet, my name is Tony and I'm your host with over a decade in and walking alongside the local church. My goal for you is to help you move closer to Jesus through intentional conversation and practical tools.
We want to help you grow in your intimacy, in your faith. And today I'm so excited for the conversation that I get to share with you. Greg and his daughter, Leah are on the podcast today. And one of the things that you'll know about them is they're just friends. They're friends of mine, but they're a father father-daughter combo who disagreed just.
Everything they they argue about politics. They have strong opinions about the way things should and be in the world. And one of the things that I'm [00:01:00] really excited about is this conversation is all about helping you learn how to disagree with good practice. Right? Disagreement is an art that sometimes I think is lost on the world that we live in.
So I think you're really gonna enjoy this conversation with Greg and Leah. And if you do enjoy it, do me a favor, hit that subscribe button, where every, you listen to podcast, leave a rating and review on iTunes or Spotify. And the highest comment you can give us. Share this episode with a friend, maybe somebody you disagree with, or somebody you are thankful that you get to practice.
So I I'm, again, I'm so excited to share this episode. I know you're gonna love Greg and Leah without any further ado. Here's my conversation with two of my dear friends. Hey everybody. Welcome back to the podcast. I'm so excited today to have one of my dearest friends for the last five years and his lovely daughter here, Greg and Leah.
Thank you guys so much for being a part of the podcast. Lee, I wanna start with you. I was trying to think about how I could introduce [00:02:00] what we're here to talk about today. Mm-hmm without being offensive or or I, I don't wanna mischaracterize it. So I thought I would ask each of you to tell me why you think we're here today.
We'll start with you. And then we'll go to Greg right after that. Well, I
Leah: hope the reason why I think I'm here today, isn't totally different from both of you. I'm not part of some like intervention or something. So, so from my perspective, the reason why we're here is because I have a fantastic relationship with my dad.
I am so deeply grateful. Cause I know not everybody has the same experiences as me. But my dad and I do not agree on a, on a lot of things in our life. And. I think, you know, we can all say we have disagreements. We have a lot of belief and ideological differences that can create some conflict in our relationship.
But what I think that we've really been able to do over the years of especially my adult life is find a way to navigate those differences. [00:03:00] Honor, the fundamental love and relationship and respect that we have for one another. And we recently were meeting talking about another one of these fundamental disagreements that we have.
And we came to the end of that meeting just saying like, we wish that other people could know what, not that we've done it perfectly, but what we've done to navigate those differences and still really support and foster our relat.
Tony: oh, I love that. I, I love the, the relational angle of that thought process, Greg.
Same question to you. What what, I mean, you were the one that reached out to me. You were like, Hey, listen, I think that this is something would be worth talking about. You're a longtime listener of the podcast, which we deeply appreciate. What, what brought you to this office to have this dialogue?
Greg: I'm trying to think of what I would say different than Leah and boy, I there's so much of it. That is exactly that's exactly what she [00:04:00] said. I think the one thing when we have these differences And when we talk through them, because it's rare that we have a difference and we don't choose to engage.
And when we do I think that we, we go, it's not a short conversation , you know, and,
Tony: I mean, gimme the average, like how long is your conversation about, I mean, did you say two hours
Greg: easy? It can be, yeah, we'll go to dinner. We'll go to dinner and you know, and then we'll sit. That what she said everything, but with an understanding that there's really a lot, we will give each other homework.
We will pause a topic will you know, to that extent right there. And we'll walk away from a topic if, if there's not going to be any joy found on either side,
Tony: Leah, I wanna, I wanna ask you because in, in any parent child [00:05:00] relationship, there's a natural power structure. You know what I mean?
There's a natural kind of position that one takes, and I can tell you that growing up I don't know that I would ever have gone against my dad and, and something that he is passionate about. And I know your dad pretty well and he's passionate about everything. Yeah. At what point did you feel like that your relationship with your dad gave you permiss?
To use your voice or was it more of a, I can't take this anymore. I'm drawing a line to the sand. like, I, I don't like paint the picture for somebody who's listening. Like, I don't know. I don't know about that.
Leah: Yeah. If I can use a really specific example, please. Yeah. And this is gonna tell your audience a little bit about me and kind of where I fall on things.
I was, I remember being in middle school when. I was in history class and we were starting to have conversations about kind of how history relates to present day, you know, our country and specifically talking the, [00:06:00] the topic was a really big and heavy one. It was the death penalty. And I was starting to have a lot of questions just about that specifically.
And I remember coming to my dad A big topic for anybody. But I think this is this is especially a big topic for, I can't imagine what you were thinking, dad like this 12 year old girl was coming to me talking about like these just things that I was really struggling with. And what I remember about that conversation was he told me exactly why he had the beliefs.
He did, why he felt that those beliefs were. Rooted in important values. And he also allowed me to, to challenge him and to tell him why I felt like another stance was more rooted in my values. And he, I don't remember leaving that conversation feeling like I had to change my mind or he would be disappointed if I felt differently.
I know, I just [00:07:00] very much left feeling like well this might be something we disagree on and that can also be okay. I, I, again, I, I feel really grateful and so I'm not a parent myself, but as a parent, I, I can't imagine how challenging it would be to you know, when your child starts to have.
Ideological differences from you, but I just so much appreciate that. I was, I was given that space, that power dynamic was mitigated in a way that I appreciate
Tony: Greg, did you intentionally go into parenting saying like I'm gonna raise this free thinker or were you shocked when she came to you about the death penalty?
And then was this a premeditated posture that you. Around letting her kind of, you know, ideologically disagree or, you know, how, how did you come to that place?
Greg: Pre premeditated. Yeah, that's a great way to put it. So I have I [00:08:00] count tell you how sensitive the topic of the death penalty. She brought up.
My brother was murdered and at one time the, the gentleman that murdered him was on death row. So. Tells you, you know, how, how deeply rooted the topic was. But a premeditation came from, she has an older sister that's four years older and an older cousin that I count really as my son, he's the son of my brother who was murdered.
And so I, I had been through it with them two completely different personalities. And when I went through. Very similar type conversations with, especially my nephew. I found that was the way that he continued to engage. He, the conversation wouldn't stop dead. It wouldn't be there would be nothing that was I'm trying to think of a word in my head and that's not coming to my head, but anyway, so it was premeditated really.
And, and she [00:09:00] always made it easy because. there was tons of intelligence behind it. There was a lot of, and a lot of curiosity, you know, I think she'd asked me as if, Hey, you might be able to present some information to me. I'm thinking this about the death penalty. I'm gonna bounce it off you. And based on what you tell me, I'm gonna make a decision.
You might not change my mind, but I'm gonna factor in what you say. I
Leah: really like that curiosity word. Sorry to jump in. But. I, I love that you just used the word curiosity. Cause I think that's so important in this conversation.
Tony: Yeah. Do, do you think that an entrenched position and E either one of you, do you think an entrenched position kills curiosity?
I'm thinking about my own kids. And I'm wondering if I would describe them as curious, is that, do, do you find that to be a natural position that you take Leah or. Like something that was developed in you through the schools or through your parents or what, what are your thoughts on how to develop safe [00:10:00] curiosity?
Leah: Hmm. So I'll start by saying that. So I, in my previous job I was a therapist and curiosity was my best friend in a therapist role. That was one of. Greatest tools that I had at my disposal and that I would encourage the clients that I worked with to use curiosity. And I, I don't know that I can say exactly where it came from.
Although I just felt like I had a lot of opportunities. I will say one place that that was deeply rooted in for me was the church that I grew up in. I was again able to ask questions. And sometimes those questions even led me to. Feeling differently about things that you know, challenged me in my faith, challenged me as a person, but as far as whether or not entrenched beliefs can really challenge curiosity or can make that more difficult.
I think that when we are not willing to consider that the belief that we. is not a universal, a [00:11:00] universal truth for everybody, or is not the universal experience of everybody. We are really missing out on an opportunity to be curious. I think it's possible to hold onto inherent deeply held beliefs.
I think we kind of need to to hold fulfilling lives, but I think it's possible to hold onto those beliefs while still being willing. To acknowledge and admit that that may, that may be very well my reality and not the reality of somebody else who lives in that world. And that can be okay. I
Greg: think, I think of a couple different examples.
The death penalty conversation being one I found that the more, the question is that she, she actually considered my. You know, she asked good questions. I remember I remember in high school when she was in debate and I remember a frustration where she did not feel heard and I went right straight to, in fact, I still have her, the teacher was one of my, [00:12:00] has become one of my very first clients and a very good friend, very different perspective than what both of I, both of us had at the.
She didn't feel like she was being heard. That was unacceptable. Immediately set up an appointment. I give the teacher a ton of credit because she heard it and she said, oh, holy smokes. That's the last thing I want taking place in here. I'm going to revamp the way that I do things to hear that. So, and then I think of also one thing that I think we do a good job.
I bet you there's some still some things that we remain entrenched in, but we do a good job of trying to gain the other person's perspective. She challenged me to watch a documentary one time 13, right? Yes. And I, I sat down and took two pages of notes because I knew that she was gonna want to talk.[00:13:00]
and when it all came down, I had some questions for her. I had some points of disagreement for her, but the last thing, the, the, the thing I carry with me is I understand now why she feels the way that she does and I didn't turn and buy into all I, I said, boy, I think they did a poor job. Of speaking this, or I challenged that fact that they gave there, I challenge it, you know, the source of it.
So I still remained, you know, believe in what I believe, but I had a perspective and I enjoyed the documentary, you know, so it was a good source and that's kind of a common thread. We try to. Bring up good sources that each other can look
Leah: at. Yeah. And try to take each other's be willing to see where each other's perspective might have come from too.
I think that's important.
Tony: I, [00:14:00] I I'd like to talk a bit about the rest of the family for just a second. Mm. Because I, I, there's probably somebody who's on a treadmill right now or on the elliptical and they're like, listen, I can't handle that kind of disagreement. I can't handle, I can't, can't be at Thanksgiving.
When Greg and Leah just start going at it at the table. How, how do you manage? Because I'm sure that not everyone in your family is as open to disagreement or conflict as, as you both seem to be. How do you manage the tension that knowing that you guys couldn't be any more polar opposites, ideologically?
It impacts the rest of the family. Do
Leah: you wanna take
Greg: that first? Yeah. Well, so our backdrop, you know, every conversation has a backdrop, just like everybody has a constant tape playing in their head. It's the, it's the it's the mood music that you know, for your life or, or, or whatever that tape just plays in your head.
I think that [00:15:00] backdrop remains with us and. If, if, if the passion, if the anger or the frustration or a something that is of disbelief, if she says something or I say something that we're like, I can't believe what you think that, you know, if, if that right there, it doesn't lack that passion. We don't hold back.
But that backdrop of. I enjoy doing life with her so much. I think that we've been so helpful to each other. I, that, you know, I she's called me for almost every major decision that she's made in her life. I've went to her about disputes within our family and said, Hey, listen, we got this going. so that value, I think we make so many deposits into each other's [00:16:00] emotional bank account.
Mm-hmm that when a large withdraw, a angry exchange, a what the hell are you where where'd you learn that? right. You know, one of those things that may make a withdrawal, but there's still easily a ton of emotional in each other's
Leah: count. Yeah. That makes me think of are you familiar with Brene brown?
Oh yeah. Her marble jar analogy of relationships aren't built upon one or two events and we don't create vulnerability and trust within relationships by one or two. It's like a marble jar that over time, you know, these small deposits are made and sometimes withdrawals are made too. And sometimes those are big withdrawals, but the, the purpose of building that trust in a relationship is that you know, over time there's enough of those small.
Not so small, sometimes events that have created an environment that can cushion [00:17:00] can cushion that.
Greg: I think we both feel too. There's been points. I can remember one point with me and I can remember at least one point with you where the bank account has come close. where it's come close to that.
Check bouncing and. I think of the overwhelming effort that we both made to hurry up and get some equity back into that. There was a feeling if you could read a text exchange that we had, I want to say it was like four years ago. You would, you would swear that we probably never would gonna talk to each other.
again, the rest of our lives. I mean, it was, we, we have a habit now pulling anything off social media so that other people can't chime in and you know, then just have the conversation. And I remember that one being as heated, a debate as we ever [00:18:00] had, and we both woke up the next day knowing it went too far.
And instead of trying to continue to further. you know, reestablish that I was right. She was right. It immediately went back into, okay, let's get, let's get into some triage here. What, what in the, what in the world happened last night? We need to, we need to fix that first and foremost.
Tony: Yeah. Let let's drill down on that.
Cuz I, I think that there's probably somebody who's listening, who's taken it too far. Mm. Online or in person. Mm-hmm how do you put marbles back in the jar? How do you refill the bank account? What do you guys have? Like. Is there, is there like a five step process? Is there a, a beverage that's served?
Is there, what do you do to heal when it hurts? Yeah.
Leah: Well I think first and foremost, the thing that we've learned to do is to be physically with each other. And I understand that that isn't always possible for people's. That's huge. It is [00:19:00] huge. When. Able to be done when you can physically be with that person that is so important to not just take it offline, but take it off of text and even take it off of a phone call cuz you miss so much.
When you're just texting. And I know both of us have been guilty of taking what somebody said a different way than what they meant it, because we didn't have all the context look at that face. How
Greg: long could you stay mad at that? how long could you stay mad at that? That that's my that's but it's right.
It's it's exactly right. Yeah. I mean, I. When she's arguing with me and I get really mad, alls I can do is think of a video when she was like about six years old singing this Hanson song. Oh God. . So
Leah: the part of podcasting is cut out. Right.
Greg: but she
Leah: hit the nail on end. Yeah. I mean that's and I would also say too, you know, we, we meet in person and, and we don't even, we don't start at the heart of the argument.
We don't pick up where we left off in terms of that. [00:20:00] Heated space. It's not like okay, we're gonna pick up with this later. We reassess and re we refocus and we say, here's what was going on with me when we were having this conversation, or as we've learned to do, when this happened, I felt this. And then that made me think this.
So this is what I would like to do about that. Or this is what I see. You know, a next step to that, that I feel equation. That, again, as, as a therapist, I found a really helpful tool, but has been really helpful in my, you know, our personal relationship.
Tony: So, so the, the reality is, is that it's not just you guys who are getting in these arguments, you're both married.
Mm-hmm and I would assume I, you know, I know in Greg's case, cuz we're close enough, but Lee, I would assume that your husband aligns with you for the most part. Sure. Yeah. Politically and ideal. Whenever I disagree with someone mm-hmm I will go home and tell my wife how much I feel [00:21:00] about that person.
Right. And, and, you know, it happens to me at work. Sometimes it certainly happens to me. I serve on enough boards that, that those are just real, you know, those are healthy relationship tendencies. You go home, you unload all your frustration to your spouse. In this case, your family. and you guys do the healing one on one I'm I'm assuming you don't bring your spouses in toe.
How do you, how do you prevent, how do you prevent poisoning the well, that is in, in the relationship from your husband and, and you Greg from your wife, like how do you prevent ruining future family gatherings? Because you've, you've. Just let out how, what a ridiculous position the other person has. I
Greg: just try to get in an argument with her Houseman do
Leah: that's true facts right there that he doesn't
Greg: discriminate.
Who I've
Tony: Jessica wondering who the [00:22:00] instigator, this discussion is,
Greg: you know, I tell you, so I'll pick on her husband for a minute. The overarching, I feel like the difference that we had, I can think of one conversation. And I completely, he did an incredible job of giving me perspective quickly from where he was.
But, and, and I still stayed my, I didn't compromise what I thought he didn't compromise what he. , but I immediately gained some perspective. And when the conversation was over, you know, I told him I loved him. Mm-hmm and he didn't reply back. And he, I think it's one of the very, this was a while back ago.
This was you, either you guys weren't married yet or, or, or just newly married. And he saw me in person. and I had told him, I loved him [00:23:00] before and he told me, he says, you know, and he says, you're the first guy in a long time. That's told me that he loves me. And, and I said, you're the first guy that I've told.
I love that. Hadn't answered me back. and he said, well, I want you to know. I love you too. Mm-hmm . And so when you have that back, of, you know, he's someone who him and I have had the, she can't, she obviously is not torpedoing me too bad because he's told me on occasion recently, he said, I think you're the best dad in the world.
Mm. So I'm sure that anger get. Steam gets let off. And the decompression does take place, you know, with you know, I'm sure she hangs up the phone and say some days I just wanna strangle him you know, but you don't get violent with it. [00:24:00] some days there's that. So,
Tony: so are you, are you intentional on how you messaged Stacy.
Greg: Give me an example. I want to understand that
Tony: question better. Yeah. So do you, after you get off a tough conversation with Leah, do you go to your wife and say, I just don't know what's wrong with that girl or, you know yeah. It's do you, how do you, how do you protect her?
Greg: Right, right. No, that's well, so here's, here's the great thing.
And Ryan has to be somewhat like this. I gather she can speak to it. As soon as I hang up, Stacey. Is has a great relationship with both of us. So she immediately wants to hear, I don't even have to go to her as soon as she hears the conversation over. So tell me, you know, tell me what was said. How did it land?
How did she hear it? What did you hear her say? All of these things here to where she's really, I don't even know that I'd [00:25:00] get a chance to. go sideways and start, you know, saying, oh my gosh, she drives me crazy. And if I do it generally gets interrupted with, well, tell me, you know, tell me exactly what was said, all that right there.
There's a curiosity and a caring concern for the, the family part of it right there. So I always kind of, and that probably brings the temperature down a little. I'm I in the back of my head, I'm thinking, how can I, you know, I've just before my wife interrupted me and me getting ready to tell her all the things she asked, all these questions, got an understanding and you know, she's not ready to choke her.
So how in the world can I be ready to choke her? You know, that ,
Leah: I, I think that our, I think. My husband is also very similar to that. And that he just, he wants to know what, what the conversation looked like from both sides. I think one thing I would add to what my dad said is [00:26:00] that we both know, we both know and respect the setting too.
In terms of, you know, how does this not translate into other family relat. There are times where, like he had said before, where we'll, we will pause on conversations because either we know we're getting ready to, you know you know, be in this big space of family, or we know that there are certain conversations, like there, there are certain conversations that we know just aren't going to be best had over Thanksgiving dinner.
Sure. The, the space feels really important because at the end of the day the respect that we have for each other outweighs any difference. And I had mentioned, you know, before, before we started this, that there were, if there are any takeaways that people take away from this, I, I hope that it's this.
And I hope it's that people realize that the divisiveness that we exist in, in this [00:27:00] culture Driven much more by disrespect than it is by difference of opinion. We think of divisiveness as being driven by the differences that we have and that, because we don't think or feel or see things the same way that we cannot come together.
But my relationship with my dad has shown me that we very much continue to not agree on things. And there's not divisiveness in the relationship because we have a fundamental. Respect for each other. Yeah. We
Greg: don't have that. And we don't have these conversations in front of other people. It isn't a, it isn't a Thanksgiving.
I know that's a that's a big family gathering, but we don't have 'em there. We, we have them in more ideal places to where we think we can get some resolution. But I think one of the things, and I can speak for me and she can chime in on this. I know I need. I know I need her because there's things that only she [00:28:00] can help me through, whether it's have I gotta bounce something off you about your, about your brother or I need to bounce something off you about this right here.
I know that I, I can't be hypocritical and, and, and I have to be, I have to try to understand her perspective. I have to, and if that's the best I can. that I'm going to leave it at that, and that I have this perspective, but I know I'm gonna need her. And there's no way I could do anything to where if I can't pick up the phone to call her for something, I don't need an underlying threat, an underlying feeling of boy, we didn't leave it in a good space last time.
It's it's the best example. Of it's the best example of not going to bed mad. It's really, it's the best example. It's it really is that. Probably [00:29:00] just leave it at that. Hey guys,
Tony: just pause in this conversation to remind you to subscribe to the new spirit and true subst subst stack is kind of an email blogy kind of thing.
And every single week, actually twice a week, we put out content that we think will help leaders grow a spirit led life. So it's, it's about leadership, but it's about holy spirit led leader. So if you're a leader, whether that be in the local church, your family or your business, I know that you're gonna love and appreciate the spirit in true subst newsletter.
For more information, and to subscribe, you can go to spirit and truth dots.com. Now let's finish up this conversation with Greg and Leah. I, I am curious cuz I, I think you're probably you painted a very romantic picture of disagreement of civil disagreement. Mm. You know, and I, you want me to get
Greg: that text run off?
Tony: yeah. We'll show you. It's not free. Well, I mean, it's beautiful. Right. And, and I have three [00:30:00] kids and I want, I want this kind of space for them. Yeah. What's the first step with adults. Right. And, and obviously, and maybe it's the first step really as a kid, but let, let's just say that it's not with a kid it's just with a stranger, right?
Like other people in your life. What's the first step in, in dialing in on disagreement with respect, or
Greg: let you say one thing on that. Let me say one thing, and then I'm gonna say short answer. Believe it or not coming from me, but I want to kind of couch. I want to see what she has to say about that, because it's a direct answer to what you're gonna say.
What you just asked. I think the key is you have to get it to a head. You have to get it to a place to where there is. This is a where it's understood. This is a disagreement right here. This is, we are not, I can't, you know that we've gotta get it to a head. [00:31:00] There's an effort to get it to that point so that we can be over the hump and kind of start seeing the down.
There's no passive to you. Aggressive. Yeah, no, no, there's not. You know, we want to get it to that place right there. Rarely do we engage to where we only go halfway. Rarely do we engage? It's it's it's so you
Tony: would say that the first step in showing. Is agreeing that we're gonna go all the way
Greg: once we start.
Leah: Yeah. Yeah. And I, I would even, maybe I might even reframe that to say, I think the first step to respect is to say to, to call it what it is. Like what you said to acknowledge there's disagreement here. And for us, our limits, our boundaries are gonna be different from what other people's limits and boundaries are.
So I think in having a disagreement with somebody, whether it's somebody that you're very close to, somebody that you wish to be close to, or somebody that, you know, you've just met acknowledging, [00:32:00] acknowledging it for what it is. This is something that we disagree on for, you know, we don't even need to go through X, Y, and Z reason.
This is just something we disagree. and getting really clear about what does that mean for us in this relationship? What does our relationship need? What are the boundaries that are needed? Because you know, the boundaries that we have for our relationship and conversation, we've mentioned a few of them with social media and the spaces, but.
They are probably different boundaries than what, you know, say he has with my sister or what, you know, I might have with my husband, because, you know, believe it or not, we do disagree on some things. So directness and, and boundaries feel incredibly important. And I want to, I also want to speak to if there's anybody listening who is thinking.
I am disagreeing. Like I'm coming from the [00:33:00] child's perspective, even though I'm an adult woman. I disagree with somebody in my life who their disagreement, funda, fundamentally disrespects and aspect of who I am or fundamentally disrespects or does not validate this part of myself that is really a part of my identity.
and I want to acknowledge and validate that part of some of those people's boundaries may be that your relationship looks very different than what it does with me and my dad. I am, again, very grateful that no part, I, I don't have a part of my identity that my dad fundamentally disrespects or has has those vitriolic feelings towards, we disagree on beliefs, but he loves and respects all parts of who I am.
If that weren't the case, this relationship couldn't be what it is. Mm-hmm . And so this isn't a plea, you know, for people to, you know, oh, just for, [00:34:00] you know, forget you know, all the differences you have with this person who has maybe called you horrible things, or has maybe really disrespect. Aspects of who you are because they disagree with it.
You know, just love them.
Greg: We certainly have respect, you know, there, there hasn't been the, we we've gotten high volume mm-hmm, highly irate with each other. There hasn't been any name coins. Yeah. And there's been, and, and we, we have enough respect for each other. I can think of a topic that we let dangle and it wasn't nobody failed.
It was. We simply haven't gotten back to it. You know, if, if she gives me homework or I give her homework, we're not going to pretend like. Okay. You know, we solved that one right there. It's gonna come back in another topic and say, now, Hey, wait a minute. I asked you to, or I listened to your, you know, podcast.
And I sent you over these questions. Mm-hmm , you know, there hasn't been a, in [00:35:00] fact, that's the thing I was thinking about right. There is the podcast and, but see, we won't, it might not jump at, but the next time we have a conversation, it'll get picked back up. We won't, we won't pretend. There's no pretend, I guess that's a long way of saying we don't pretend that we agree.
Mm-hmm we try to gain perspective. We know that we love each other. We certainly have respect for each other. Yeah. But being direct really. I mean, it, it it's it's, it's the only way I know how to go. I mean, being direct, being honest, bringing it to a head, not playing, pretend on. those are the things that have helped us get through.
I can't imagine how, if we, none of those things were not cemented in our foundation that we we'd be nearly as close as we are. Yeah. One
Tony: of my favorite definitions of grace is unmarried favor, you know, and, and I think that it, [00:36:00] it kind of applies here that you guys show each other grace. And the other thing I think I'm hearing is that the boundaries are.
By the depth of which we're willing to love. Mm. Right. Like, so the boundary is so wide because the, the love is so wide. Right. And I think that that's probably an important thoughts, put that for all of us is right. Like. I don't need to give great boundaries to someone who I'm not willing to give. Great love to.
And that's just good. And that's okay.
Greg: That's great. That's just a great way to put that. I don't know that I could have
Leah: demonstrated that and vice versa. One of the best things that my that my dad ever told me this doesn't have to do with disagreement. This is actually a great example of when I went to him when I was younger with an issue in my life.
And it was with a particular person and. Just really struggling. And I, I remember saying to him, you know, saying to my dad, you know, I'm, I'm this person's or, you know, this is my best friend we're talking about here. Like, this is why it's so hard. This is my best friend. And he just looked at me and said you might be [00:37:00] his best friend.
He is not your best friend. And it, it obviously still sticks with me to this day because it taught me about how we could be willing to. Extend love to places that aren't willing to catch that love. And we, or reciprocated. Yeah, absolutely. And that's, I think just the inverse of what you just said, you know, we can't also have boundaries and spaces that aren't, aren't safe for us and for the love that we have to give.
Tony: so, Greg, I want to ask you a question. That's a little pointed and it's probably a little slanted, so forgive me in advance. All right. You said in the you said jokingly mm-hmm in the a little bit ago I have in my notes. Wh where did you learn that? right. And you were talking about Leah's position on some things and frustration, like, oh, where, where did you learn that?
Mm-hmm as a guy who I know is who's deeply rooted in belief and faith in, in your ideals, right? Mm-hmm here. I don't know that I've met a more passionate guy about [00:38:00] everything. . Do you feel like. in some sense that you failed because your daughter essentially agrees with nothing that you believe in?
Greg: Oh, no, not at all.
Tony: Because relation and, and how do you wrestle with that?
Greg: Yeah. And, and well, the, the failure would be defined by not having the relationship that we have right now in my mind. It's, it's difficult. Sometimes it isn't for the faint of. We sit and smile and talk about it right now as if we have some answers that other people don't have.
A lot of it, a lot of it we make up as we go along. I mean, there really is. I mean, I can't say it enough. This is a mutual appreciation podcast right here, but if anybody would be priv. to some of the [00:39:00] exchanges that we've had. I mean, they have been, it's been to get it to a head, maybe even pass that right there, but the respect was never lost no matter how angry.
And we never left without, I never left without trying to figure out where does she, where does she get? You know, and I'll ask, I'll ask sometimes where, where are you? Like the, the podcast we just talked about? I was like, send me that, I wanna read that right there. And then immediately she doesn't shy away from sending me information because she knows I'll look at it.
I don't shy away from sending her information because I know that she'll look at it. That's a pretty you're you're you're investing, you're saying. I need to at least understand before I can tell her she's crazy. I need to understand where she, where she got that right there. [00:40:00] And I it's, I think of, I was telling her about this when it was going on when black lives matter really came out, I desperately wanted and, and racial tension was as thick as, as you could imagine.
Mm-hmm and I, I immediately wanted to go to. African American people in our community, people that I associated with from inner city, youth guys that I played basketball with to successful business people in Centerville to, you know a mom that, you know, here in Centerville, all that I had relationship with and to ask them, tell me what you tell me.
And I, and I didn't shy away from telling them. The points I dis I didn't just go to placate them. And I didn't go to just say, Hey, look at all these African American friends, I have that I get along so good with, they got a chance to hear the things that I disagreed with. And I don't know that I want 'em over, but they [00:41:00] understood.
And they certainly helped me understand those are valued relationships today. The kid from the inner city that plays basketball, you know, just texted me a picture of his daughter. and he's moved away to Cleveland and hasn't, hasn't lived here for probably three years. Yeah.
Leah: I think that if another thing that another trap that a lot of people can get stuck in, especially when you have really deeply rooted beliefs about things, is the trap of only having people around you who agree with those things.
I think that we do ourself a disservice when we don't choose to be in relationship with people who. Have diversity in thought diversity in race diversity in ethnic background, cultural background, religious background. I think that we do ourself a disservice when we don't have that circle of relationships that reflect other world views because I think it makes it a lot harder for us to have that curiosity to, to [00:42:00] be able to develop.
And just like what you were just saying, dad, you know, acknowledge the fact that there are people that live really different lives and have different perspectives than what we have that, that we could never have. You could never have the same perspective of any of those people that you just mentioned until you heard it from them.
And what was important about that was the relationship that you already had a relationship with with all of those people? We really do ourself a disservice when our circle looks exactly like us and talks and sounds exactly like us.
Greg: I think our circle observes us too. The respect goes so far that I won't say names, but you'll know who she is when I'm talking about has observed us talking on social media and I've actually engaged her a couple times.
I have so much respect for Leah. I'm not gonna, I would continue to have it. I didn't have her phone number to text her number one but you know, praise love. I had so [00:43:00] much, I had so much respect for her that and I actually, and the one thing she actually agreed that I taught her something. And on, on the flip side I don't know what she taught me anything, but I certainly understood her perspective.
You know, when you have that kind of respect. for someone you know, the teacher that became my, one of my first clients that gave her said, said to me one time I buy her lunch. Just cuz she's been such a great friend of mine we'll go out to lunch and I always tell her it's on me. I mean, you're you contribute way more to this relationship than I do.
And she says, boy, it's gotta drive you crazy that your you and your daughter. ideologically disagree on so many things. And I said, yeah, I said, it does. I mean, you, you, you wish there was more agreement and she says, but I see how you guys do it. And you know, [00:44:00] that's the way to handle it right there. So there's a lot of.
affirming, I guess is the word I'm
Tony: looking for. Mm-hmm love. There's a lot of love. Mm-hmm I think that's good. Okay, so I have one more question to ask you guys mm-hmm but before I ask it, if one of my listeners wanted to connect with either one of you to, to maybe ask maybe something specific or to get your wisdom, or to get your tips, where is the best place to find you on the internet?
Leah,
Leah: The best place to find me. So I'm gonna give two because my Facebook is largely private because of the work that I do. Sure. They could search for me. My name is Leah Marie, L L E a H Marie spell the way that you might imagine it spelled . And you know, I'm happy to. Answer questions there, but, but I'm also really more so happy to give an email that people can reach out to.
My email is something that I don't know if you wanna put in the show notes.
Tony: [00:45:00] Yeah. We'll put that in the link in the show notes. We'll put it in the show notes. Why don't you say it now? Just in case somebody's driving and they're just gonna voice text it right
Leah: now. Absolutely. Yep. So my email is my first and maiden name, L E a H.
F as in Frank, a Y 88, gmail.com.
Tony: Great, awesome. She
Greg: disappoints me because she doesn't do the phonetic for better. Well,
Tony: I know to be for F Fox Fox. Yeah. Fox Greg best place for people to find you on the interwebs
Greg: Facebook? My, my Facebook is not private. nothing about
Tony: Greg Craig Faye, private
Greg: Foxtrot, a Y alpha Yankee, Greg Faye, or my email Greg at Greg.
For insurance and you'll put that link in there. Yeah. We'll put all the links. I would entertain any conversation.
Tony: And if you're, and if you need a good insurance guy, he's your guy for sure. A hundred percent. I tell him, I know
Greg: a guy.
Tony: Okay. Last question. I always love to [00:46:00] ask people. It's an advice question where I take you back into a particular season of your life and ask you to give yourself one piece of advice.
So I'm gonna take you back to the day after the death penalty discussion for both of you. And if you could pull up a chair in front of that younger version of yourself, privately in a room with no one else around, look her or him in the eyes and give them one piece of advice around the next several years of doing life together, specifically as it pertains to this relat.
what's the one piece of advice you're gonna give them. And, and Greg I'll, I'll go to you and then we'll end with you, Leah.
Greg: That's that's great. And I listen your podcast all the time, so I know that that question's coming. That's why I went to, I never know the point. I never know the point in time though.
I gotta be honest with you. This is not me breaking my arm to pat myself in the back. I would be too afraid if I gave myself any different advice, this would be [00:47:00] different and I'm not willing. I'm not willing to chance that right there. So for you, it would be just stay the course, stay the course continue to do again.
And I cheated, I cheated in the sense that I had already been a dad for four years. I had already had a son and I know he is my nephew, but I call him my son. I had already had, he was as, as strong willed and as opinionated as. and I remember him and I got in a disagreement one time and he, he freestyle wraps and he's done that forever.
I mean, forever and ever, and ever. And I think Leo remembered this right here. We had a disagreement with something and I stayed up that night till about midnight at the dining room table. And I wrote him. Mm and I put it on his bed and he came, he didn't, he didn't see it. Cause he normally got up racing to get school on time.
And I was disappointed. He didn't see it the next morning. [00:48:00] And he came home and he said, this is good. He said, this is good. He says, how can I stay mad at you? Like this right here? And I said, I had to get in your space. So I had the benefit of having practiced it. Yeah. So I, I would then short answer is I, I would not change a thing for.
That this would be different because this is as good as it gets. Awesome.
Tony: Mm-hmm Leah, what about you? What are you telling that young lady?
Leah: Yeah, it's such a good question. You know, I would really want her to know that because at this point that young lady has not made a lot of the changes. Sure. That, that I will then, you know, go on to make in my life.
And I would just want her to know that all of. Changes that will develop whatever they look like, whatever new things that she learns about the world. You have a safe space. And I, I would want her to know, and I, I believe that my dad [00:49:00] and family would affirm this, that your large. And all of your ideas and your largeness of things that feel that make you feel so different from your family or from other people are, are what make you incredibly loved and unique and beautiful.
And I'm, I'm glad that I was raised in a family that affirmed that my differences were some of the best things about me. And I would just want that girl to know. that that's true. And that you live in a, in a space where that's okay. And that's safe. Hmm.
Tony: So good. Thank you both for the vulnerability, for the generosity, for the, for the opportunity to have this important dialogue.
And I think listeners, I, I think that if you're here, this maybe think about one person in your life where you can close the gap respectfully and respectfully disagree. I think it's a gift that we can give and a skill we. [00:50:00] Sharpen in all of us. So thank you guys. I told you guys what a rich conversation with these two.
I love the way they talk about the relationship. First. I think that's where all disagreement needs to start is with the importance of the relationship. Unconditional love does wonders things for helping us grow in disagreement friends. I'm thankful for each and every one of you. I'm thankful that we can have these kind of conversations, the real ones, the honest.
Do me a favor hit that subscribe button. We're able to listen to podcasts, leave a rating, a review on iTunes or Spotify, and as always the highest com you can give us, share this episode with a friend, thankful for you guys. And remember if you wanna follow Jesus, you must be willing to move.
