#260: Jay and Rae Anne Payleitner: Girl Dad
Such a fun conversation with a father-daughter duo who you are going to love!
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EP. 260
Tony: [00:00:00] Hey guys. Welcome back to the Reclamation Podcast. What're our goals to help you reclaim good practices for following Jesus? And we haven't met yet. My name is Tony, and I'm your host with over a decade in the local church. I care deeply and passionately about helping you connect with Jesus in very practical ways.
Today's episode is a father-daughter combo girl, dad. It's so close to my heart, and actually before I even hit record, they get to meet Shiloh. And so you'll hear them talk about Shiloh and our relationship and just, man, I want so much to be a good girl, dad to my daughter. And whether you are a girl, dad, or you know, one, this is a conversation you probably want to jump into.
Jay and Rae Anne, pay Lightner are just beautiful people who share their heart and have so much to offer us in our conversation today. So now without any further ado, let's [00:01:00] jump into this conversation with Jay and Rae Anne. Jay and Rae Anne. Thank you guys so much for being here today.
Jay: Tony, what a privilege to hang out with you.
Rae: Absolutely. Thanks for having us. Tony.
Tony: Rae, I wanna start with you. I love to ask the question from a macros perspective on calling. Right? And so Rae will go you first and then Jay. How, how would you describe the calling that God has placed on your life?
Rae: Wow. That's a big question. Big
Tony: question. I just come out, swing it, go out, swing it every time.
Tony.
Jay: Tony, I'm so looking forward to hearing this answer. She has answer. That's the kinda question, that's the kinda question that dad wants to ask her daughter. But it's hard for dad to ask that. But so there you go, Rae. There you go. What's the, what was it, what was it again? Taw. How was, what was the question?
Tony: Yeah, Rae Anne. How would you describe the calling that God has placed on your life?
Rae: Well, Again, real big question, and I think even in the book I say Dads, don't [00:02:00] ask that question. Wait for them to talk to you about it. But I'll, I'll give you a pass on this one, Tony. I when it comes to calling, I kind of learned early on I was, I was a young woman child who made a lot of plans and kept thinking about kind of what the.
Long-term vision for my life was in my own head. And I even had, I had an uncle growing up who every time he saw me, cuz he didn't see me all the time, but every time he saw me a few times you hear, he goes, okay, what's the plan? Because he liked hearing me talk about where my plan was and where I thought I would be, you know, in 20 years.
And I quickly realized in my life that are human plans. Don't always get to be on the front burner. Right. They often get cast to the side. And so when it comes to plans versus calling, what I've kind of realized is really focusing on doing the work that's in my hands. That's the series of verses that I really held have held onto these last 10 years, when kind of my plans just kind of [00:03:00] keep getting thrown out the window, but I still Get to wake up every day and, and be a part of, be a part of the world and do the work in it.
And so I really, my calling as I see it, is to, to love the people around me as best I can. For as long as I can. And then when it comes to the work that I do do the work that's in my hands and do it well. And it'll all work out if you do the work well and you love the people around you. That's my calling today.
Maybe I'll, maybe I'll have a different calling, you know, in a couple years. But I think that, that one has treated me well ever since I stopped making plans and started, started looking for purpose.
Tony: I love that. Jay, what about you? You've written over 30 books, you've speaking all over the country. How would you describe the calling that placed God has placed on your life?
Jay: It's all about the God that he uses it all. I can look back. And see my ridiculous college degree, which I won't even tell you what it was. I can, I, [00:04:00] I sold photocopier for a while for ab Dick. Hi. I'm the ab dick guy. Don't, don't, don't buy that Xerox Minolta or some copied copier that you recognize.
I, I wasn't advertising on Michigan Avenue doing Doing ads for Corona Beer and Midway Airlines, and I was on the, I led the creative team that named Sun Chips, and so I was honing my skills as a, as a writer and meeting deadlines, and then I might have got fired from that job. And I ended up at a little Christian ad agency where I was suddenly producing Josh McDowell radio.
Many of your listeners know Josh McDowell. More than the carpenter. I produced his radio program for 14 years. How did that happen? I just kind of fell into that. So my calling is really about trust that no matter what happens, the crud, the good stuff I'm just gonna trust that it's kind of like Rae Anne said, and that's a great verse.
I wish I could remember the reference. Whatever your hand finds you to do, do it with all your might. That's that's one of our favorites. We've talked [00:05:00] about that. And So it's, it's trusting that God has something before me. And the, the churches we've been to we've, we've gone through, we just changed churches a couple years ago.
That's a really weird thing to do that, but again, it's, it's following God's call and trusting and trusting that. So it's about trust, I think it is. Should we ask Rae Anne should we ask Tony what his calling is?
Rae: Absolutely. Throw, throw the spotlight back on him. Yeah. Whoa, whoa. What is happening
Tony: here?
You know, my, my call, my calling is the, the Lord is just burdened on my hardest to make disciple makers and to be obedient, joyful. Obedience is the word that God has given me. Yeah. In, in several seasons, it won't leave me alone. So, yeah, I, I make disciple makers and I I'm joyfully obedient to wherever the Lord calls me.
So
Jay: I'm, I'm, I'm gonna add onto what I said. I have done a lot of international ministry for the Bible League, I, I, and, and other ministries. I've done sending Bibles, millions of Bibles radio. Programs I've [00:06:00] worked on to China. I went to Russia four times with Josh McDowell. I I spoke to a thousand dads just outside Warsaw, Poland, right before Covid.
So this international ministry has come to me. Hmm. But that's not my, that's not my jam. That's not who I am. I am. So, I, I look at my neighborhood and the community and the, and the hurting men that I see in, in and around when I go speaking in to, to men right here in, in In the Midwest especially so that my, even though I've had this ministry, it's a good example.
I've had this ministry outside the country. Boy my heart is with dads and men and families, husbands and mine's marriage here in the country. So that's more specific. If, if that makes any sense. Yeah, no, I
Tony: love that. I think I think it's a, a beautiful lead in to my next question Rae, and let's start with you on this one as well.
M mostly cuz I like to hear your answer first when it comes to discernment, right? Because I, I know that this is your first book and it kind of happened by [00:07:00] accident. We'll get into that in just a moment. But how do you discern God's voice in your life?
Jay: Hmm.
Rae: Another big swing. How do I discern God's voice in my life?
Beautiful question. I think at the end of the day, I, I am of the firm belief that God gives us the tools that we need to be able to do our part in fostering the relationship with him. Obviously he is you know, omnipresent. Obviously he can, he can make his presence known and he can do anything and all things are possible, right?
And I think that, Just as in every good relationship, both parties need to need to kind of come put their toe to the line. And it's not because he can't cross that line. If he didn't want to, he could, you know, open, you know, blast off the, the wall to my room right now and, and make his heavenly [00:08:00] presence known.
But he wants us to walk towards him. And I think that he did that by giving us the tools we're all unique. I personally Like using biblical references, you know what I mean? I do a lot of study, I do a lot of conver deeper conversations, whereas other people might connect more through worship or through extended pRaeer or through, you know, a different, different discipleship methods.
And I. From my perspective, I try to hone in on his voice in scripture and how I see his voice manifest in other people's lives. And that's how I can, that's how I've kind of worked to hone it. And I think he, he allows me to do it that way because he knows that that's how my brain and heart work.
That's how I relate to the people in my life, and I think that he does that for everyone. We all. Speak to each other in different ways, and we all speak and listen to him in different ways. And so that's personally how I do it. And understanding that I have human ears right. And so sometimes I get it wrong, mm-hmm.
But I try to keep [00:09:00] people around me. To remind me who, and who I am and who God is. And so if I'm getting it wrong, if my discernment, you know, meter is off I have pe people who love me, who are around me, that can help me get on track. And then I have the scripture behind it to help me, to help remind me when I, when I'm feeling
Tony: cloudy.
I love that. Jay, I'm, I'm gonna ask you a similar version of the same question and specifically I, I think I would love to hear how, you know, what, what is the next book to write, right? So, I mean, 30 some odd books, and they, what I appreciate about your scope of writing is that it's, it's family and relational based, but it's also.
Vast. And so how do you know that God called you to write this book about being a girl
Jay: Dad? Yeah. Girl Dad is, is book number 38 for me and is book number one foran. I think it's about the responsibilities that I have. Coming [00:10:00] out of my life. That's where the books come from. It's like, this is something I'm dealing with now, or a a or a quest that I'm on now.
And I start thinking about it. It's like, well, if I'm dealing with this quest, this responsibility then There must be millions of other people who are doing that. And so there's a, and then if I can con a, a publisher into take that idea. The easy answer is just last week, literally just last week, I asked chat, G B T G P T, the ai, I said, what should be my next books?
What should, what should be J pay lighter's next books? And it was something on parenting teens. Something on on grandparents, something on the, the power of pRaeer. So, but I'm not gonna let chat gp the artificial intelligence decide my next book, Al. Also on a very practical level I've surrounded myself with all kinds of gifted publishing experts, my agent and publishers that I know and trust and who know me [00:11:00] and love me and count on me.
And frankly Tony, they give me book titles. Yeah. They say, Jay, man, we need a book on this. Most of the most publishers and actually Rae Ann's brother Randall is the publisher at Moody Bible Institute. He's the publisher there. He's in charge of the whole thing there. And we have conversations. But most books are, they begin with a, some kind of proposal and, and the publishers go yes or no.
But because I've been doing this for so long, I get, I get emails from, from publishers, Hey, Jay, can you write a book on this? And that how, that's how I, I did a book on conflict resolution. I did a book on well, my bestselling book is 52 Things Kids Need From a Dad. Think about this. Yeah, we move on.
My best selling book is 52 Things Kids Need From a Dad Sold 200,000 copies, and the publisher Harvest House said, Jay boy, this book is going well. Can you write a book? For the same audience, but think of them as husbands. So instead of what kids [00:12:00] need make do what wives need, 52 things wives need from a husband.
And I said, I haven't, I said, you want me to write this book? Yeah, Jay, we'll send you a contract in a in advance check. And I said, I can write that book. So anyways, so that kinda launched my min, my Ministry on marriage, which is good news because. I have a great marriage and my wife pours into me and I pour into her, and that may, I may have had more impact sometime some ways on marriages than I have on, on dads.
So, is it too long of an answer, Tony? Is that too long of an answer? Is that making, I don't,
Tony: there's no right or wrong answer here, Jay. We're just talking. Okay. There you go. I, I am interested Rae Anne. Mm-hmm. As someone you, you've watched your dad write 38 books. You've seen him? I'm, I'm guessing where he's recording from now is his study.
If I was gonna guess that, that's probably the writing lab and it's mm-hmm. Probably just looking at kind of his personality type. There's probably books stacked everywhere and paper all over the [00:13:00] place. And I've got the gift of discernment, so like You know, it's probably like, I can imagine as a young daughter watching your dad write and write and write and pour over.
I, I'm curious what, what's kind of your in reflection, what's your takeaway from watching your dad serve the Lord in this way?
Rae: Well, you are exactly right, Tony, in that, that room there, which maybe has the footprint of a. King size bed has been, his office is about, is about 10 paces away from the kitchen table.
And so, and my whole life, we moved into that house when I was three. And so my whole awareness of him, Has been in this room. And a lot of beautiful things come from that. One. He was at every one of my softball or basketball games or plays cuz he could, he was home and he was present and he could work from 10:00 PM to midnight if he needed to, if he wanted to be at my four o'clock softball game, [00:14:00] which is an incredible gift that very few of my teammates got.
But, and, but children across the board because, you know, life either there's a very real reality of of life getting, just bring up those challenges as for dads, but watching him write in his ministry to write, to get back to your question, I mean, I remember the first time that I held his first book, which was called Once Upon a Tandem.
He, I held it in my hands and he was so excited cuz he had always, I also knew even before that, That he had always wanted to write a book. He was a writer. He had always, you know, made, made his work and, and money and everything like that through writing in different ways, whether it be advertising or radio producing or scripting, things like that.
And so watching him go from once upon a tandem all the way up here through Girl Dad, I can tell you that of the 38 I've read, All of them except for one, which is what [00:15:00] husbands need from their wives. And that wasn't a subject matter that I wanted to listen to his opinion on. Just because I know the players.
I know the players involved. I stopped reading that one about, about a half a chapter and I go, you know what? I'm sure it's great. Hard pass. Exactly. But he would always send us send us Ed and his children, my four brothers and I, he would send us. The PDF of the book before it was even printed.
And so I remember on the back, on the backs of buses, you know, as I was going to sporting events or up late at night. And when I was living in Ireland, I even, I was an ra and so I, I printed it out so I could read it while I was. On a shift, and a bunch of my friends found it. That was a whole different thing.
But I've watched him evolve and I've watched him grow. And it is a good question, you know, what book do you write next? Right? We, you, you have the kind of the first 10 in Locke, but then after that you're, you go in and out of these phases of, I, I, you know, I'm not sure what I. What I have to offer next.
[00:16:00] And then the idea comes whether it's from a publisher, whether it's, you know, from something that my mom says, or just someone who comes up to him at one of the speaking events who has a question that that hasn't been answered by his book. So watching him evolve as I've grown up, we both have kind of evolved on our parallel paths together and beautiful to be able to watch him touch people's lives in these 38 different ways.
Tony: Jay, I, I was really excited to read about how this book came to fruition, specifically Rae Ann's part in it. I'm wondering if you could tell the story about the The, the process and then, and then maybe kind of paint the picture. This book is creatively written in a way that you don't find very often with insights and reality checks and kind of these questions, and it's, it's beautifully put together in that way that it's, it's it's short, choppy bites.
So can you tell the story how Rae Ann's part came to fruition and then the creativity [00:17:00] kind of model that you guys put together collectively?
Jay: Yes, it's a fascinating story to tell and gives you some some viewpoint of the underworld of publishing 38 books and 37 of those books I sent in the manuscript.
I've got the contract, I'm writing the book. I send it in the manuscript, and the publisher says, Well, that's great. We won't have to no rewrites, no nothing. We'll just do a grammar check and maybe just kind of tighten some things up, but great, great, great, great, great. Okay. With that in mind I'm, I get a book contract to write a book that's for dads.
Of daughters, maybe even b book book for dads of little daughters. It kind of a cutesie kind of thing that Willie is gonna focus on on teddy bear picnics and daddy daughter dances and the cute little things that, that we, that dads should be doing if they have time, if they can, and to be in the lives of the do of the little daughters and maybe some lists of places to go and, and such.
Okay, [00:18:00] so I'm working on this thing. And then I say, Hey to my I Rae Anne is is, is gone from West Point. Now she's working in, she's going to school in Dublin, Ireland. And I'm realizing, you know what I would love her input on this. So I sent her the part of the partial manuscript and.
She doesn't just have a comment, she writes a long paragraph on something's like ge, dad, what about this, this, this really needs to be in there. And so I ask my publisher, Hey, could my daughter, I'm was gonna surprise Rae Anne with this idea. Could my daughter co-write this book with me? Because I know she has that gift.
And they said, what a great idea. We'll even put her name on the cover. So I'm looking forward to this. So I write these 10 brilliant chapters. On on my my daughter and her hopes and dreams, my daughter and her friends, my daughter and her boyfriends my daughter and her teams and teammates, my daughter and her mom, my daughter, and, and this fallen world my daughter.
And her time with, with dad, with me, kind of. [00:19:00] Okay. So I've got all these wonderful chapters going and they're brilliant. And Rae Anne. Spends about the e. Every chapter now ends with about 1500 words of Rae Anne. Tony telling me why I was wrong.
Tony: I was, listen, I wanted to see how you were gonna approach it.
Cause the reality checks aren't, they're not kid
Rae: gloves. No, they are not.
Jay: And so the point is we didn't write the book together. I wrote my chapters and then she commented on and it wasn't really ran. Help me out here am I, am I, was it how, help me out here. How did you approach those? The, you're you're part of the the
Rae: book.
Oh, absolutely. It was me telling him how he was wrong for sure. No, no. What, what it really was is, and it was what I had done before, this wasn't a new thing. I wasn't actually when he first asked me, Hey, can you gimme your notes? This is what he had done before at other books. That's why I was reading them on the backs of buses.
Right. Why I was reading those manuscripts is because I just wanted to make [00:20:00] sure that that one, that he, I always do a control F for my name right. In his books and make sure everything's lined up there. But also Just to, to fill out any, any gaps. We've had these conversations around our kitchen table for as long as I can remember, or Rae Anne.
I have 37, you know, I have 37 things that daughters need from their dead. Help me get number 38 and we would workshop how to work up to that 52 mark. And so Honestly, how I approached the book was was that kind of feedback. And you can ask anyone. I am a, i, I like to call it being realistic. Some might call it pessimism, I don't know, something like that.
But I don't play with kid gloves. And so what I wanted to do and everything my dad writes in the book is right. It, it's good advice, excellent insights. But what I wanted to do was give it. Context, right? Mm-hmm. I wanted to give it context to who their daughter is, not just as their daughter, because you know, to a [00:21:00] dad, your daughter is always gonna be your daughter, always gonna be your little girl in some ways, always gonna be your.
You know, partner in crime. In some ways, that's who she is when you look at her. And that's a wonderful, beautiful thing. But she is all of these other things too. She's also, you know, a woman in the world. She's also gonna be forging her own path. She is gonna have those hopes and dreams. And so I, I wanted to give that context and perspective to, to the dads who to the dads who are reading the book and the reality checks, really a few times I do say, I hate to disagree with my dad.
I do say that on a number of occasions, but most of the time it's not the opposite. It's more more just giving them the different angle of looking at it.
Jay: It, it, it occurs to me Tony, if I may yeah. My part of the chapters, I have insights for dads regarding, you know How, how to deal with bad coaches or your ex is not your enemy or, you know, celebrate your daughter's defiance sometimes.
But the real, you mentioned reality checks and Rae Anne you [00:22:00] did too. Some examples would be in the very first chapter on hopes and dreams. I, part of my, part of my insights is, you know, what your daughter these days because of the culture and the opportunities for, for, for daughters, your daughter can be anything she wants to be.
And then Rae Anne was quick to say in her reality check. Go ahead, Rae Anne. No,
Rae: she can't. Of course she can't. Of course she can't be anything, right? If, if she's been playing basketball for 10 years and still can't dribble with her left hand, she probably isn't gonna be in the W N B A. Or if, you know, if she struggles, she struggles with sophomore year chemistry, probably not gonna bring home the Nobel Prize in it.
So it's
Jay: Tony, you've had these conversations with Shiloh. You've got a 11 year old daughter and you tell her right now that, am I right that you, Shiloh, you can be anything you wanna be.
Tony: Does she buy anything? I think for the most part, yeah. Well, I'm, I think with some caveats, right? Mm-hmm. Like I, I'm a little bit more you know, she, she's at [00:23:00] this point, she's not gonna be, she probably never gonna be at dunk a basketball, right?
Like, there's a, you know, like, Hey we, we always say that. Milton burgers do hard things, right? Mm-hmm. Like what? You know what I mean? Like hard work and vision opens up a lot of doors and and we trust in the Lord. So like that, it's kind of that combo of like, you can do anything you want with hard work.
Mm-hmm. And trusting in the Lord. Mm-hmm. But if
you're
Jay: talking to a girl, dad, you, you girl dad who's got a little eight year old, you want him to kind of say, I think. You can be anything you wanna be, but that has to soften or change as you realize what her gifts are. Sure. Later on. And then you, because our job kind of as a dad is to, is to help our daughter find her sweet spot because well, she's girls these days are being pulled in two different directions.
Yeah, that's right. That they're supposed to, you know, shoot for the stars and be, be everything any man could ever be, kind of thing. And then the flip flop of that is if your daughter, maybe [00:24:00] she's, ultimately she wants to be a stay-at-home mom and raise a few babies, that kind of thing. So she's your daughter, girl.
Dad's out there listening. Your daughter's gonna be pulled in two directions, maybe five directions, as a matter of fact. And stay with her, help her find her sweet spot. Be there to listen to her. As Rae Anne often says if I may keep listening so that she'll finally ask you, dad, what do you think I should be?
She'll ask you, dad, what do you think my gifts are? So you want to keep in staying her life and earn it the right for her to say, ask you that question is kind of the goal. So again, reality I say I would say something and Rae Anne would have a. Reality
Rae: check. Well, and just, just to clarify on that particular reality check, I do start off a little bit harsh, but the real conclusion of that reality check about helping about whether your daughter can be anything she wants you to be is for dads to actually understand that well, she can't be everything.
She can't be anything, but what she could be, could be [00:25:00] anything. Yeah, I know it's a little bit of a tongue twister, but it's the idea of not letting your experience as a, as a man in the world and, and your age group and everything like that, not letting your experience as, as, as a person put your daughter into a box and or, and you want her to surprise you and you want her to do things that you never imagined.
And so that's, More That was the nicer second half of that reality check with Moth, which many of them have just, yeah, she can't be, she can't be anything. She can't be everything. But what she could end up being, could be anything. And to just let your imagination run
Jay: wild. And, and I gotta say the, the reality checks or my favorite part of the book because I, I get to hear Rae Ann's voice in my head as I'm reading.
Yeah.
Tony: Hey guys, just pausing this conversation with Jay and Rae Anne to remind you. Now is the time to subscribe to the Spirit and True ck. It's a blog that comes out twice a week and is all about helping you be a [00:26:00] spirit led leader. So whether you're leading a small group, a church, or just a team at your office, and you wanna lean into what it means to be spirit led.
This is a great resource for you. It comes straight to your email box. Easy to consume. It's not that long. It's got a team of writers who are gonna help you grow in the process. You can connect by going to spirit and truth.sub.com. I, I am curious, speaking about Rae Ann's voice and Rae Anne, I'm gonna start this question with you and then Jay, I'm interested to hear your thought on, on, from your perspective, wh what's really evident in the writing.
And then now that we've spent some time together, it it, what's really clear is that as a Father Dotto combo, you guys have an equal voice. And, and that it's an equal voice in the book. And it's clear that your dad has a ton of respect for you, Rae Anne. And he nurtured your voice in some way, shape or form.
And as a, as a [00:27:00] dad to an 11 year old strong, fierce princess mm-hmm. How do I, how do I intentionally foster that equality and that strengthened voice. So that Shiloh and so that all the dads listening, their daughters feel like they can use their voice even if it's to go in what seems or may feel like opposition to their dad.
Rae: Another excellent question that I, that I've not gotten before. I. I think the key, you know, so sometimes people ask like, oh, obvi, you know, especially with this book, right? Oh, you're dead and you must have a great relationship. Has it always been that way? And while it has always at its core been a great relationship, it's, it's never always been the same.
Our relationship has evolved as we have evolved. You know, you start out. As you know, your dad is a superhero. You know, can't, nothing can stop him. He can do anything. You know, he does does [00:28:00] things that seem like magic, you know, when you're six years old, the things that he can, and he can scoop you up and he's just this kind of mythical figure to you.
But he can't be that way forever because superheroes don't exist. And we're people and we evolve and as, as girls grow up into, to young women and then into women you know, they get the reality of the world, but they evolve and their own experiences changed them. You know, my dad was. Thirty five, thirty six when I was born.
And so he's evolved over the last 30 years. Just obviously I did cuz I had to go through all of, all of the changes of development. But he also evolved. He became a a thousand different things and learned things and went through things just as I did. And so I think that. The most important thing. I think sometimes girl dads try to latch on to that princess relationship, which there is always gonna be a little bit of that always, cuz it's, it's your, you know, it's your dad, it's your little girl, but I.
Allow your [00:29:00] relationship to evolve with you and with your daughter. And at some point at sometimes you're gonna evolve in opposing directions, some points you're gonna evolve together. And if you stay with it long enough and you have conversations, conversations are the greatest tool I, I think. My definition of relationship is just a series of conversations.
That's all. Any relationship is a series of conversations. That's how you develop trust. That's how you get to know each other. That's where fights come from. That's where, you know, as you're forging iron against iron, just be present. Have conversations with your daughter and allow the relationship to evolve because if you allow it to evolve with you, Then you're gonna end up with the relationship of peers.
Mm-hmm. You're gonna end up with a relationship where you actually get to be friends with your daughter and you get to, you know, the kind of disciplinary gets to be shed a little bit. The, the worrier, you know, the, the, the hard and fast protector gets to get shed a little bit [00:30:00] so that you know, when you are 65 and 30, you get to have that peer relationship and that I think is.
Gonna be the longest and hopefully best era for a girl dad relationship. Phenomenal
Tony: answer. Jay, what, what about you? What, what do you think that you did intentionally or maybe just lucked into that kind of fostered that voice in your daughter? Yeah.
Jay: And this would be something that, that I, that I, I'm hoping to give you a few things right now that, that a girl dad out there can latch on to go, oh, I can do this.
And all the books say Date Your Daughter. I understand that that's as a kind of a good concept and keep that top of mind. But if you go a little bit deeper than that have, have what I call our stuff. Mm-hmm. Stuff that, that's just you and Shiloh. Tony, Tony, Tony and Shiloh have their little secrets, maybe even stuff that dad, that mom doesn't know about or maybe she knows about, but Shiloh doesn't know that she knows [00:31:00] about.
There's stuff. Could be our, our movie, our TV show, our book our, our, our bench. Our, our our table at McDonald's, that kind of thing. So our stuff so that she can, as, as there's a foundation you're building there a rock, because dad, you gotta be the rock, the foundation that gives her the courage to mo go out, go out and explore the worlds and do great things or try hard things and that because she knows dad's gonna be there.
So that would be one thing. You be that foundation and have our stuff that she can always count on. And then it is as we've already kinda said, listen more than talk. If you can get some of those open-ended questions going, that's a really a wonderful thing. And then I'm not sure if this is a specific, but more of a generic kind of feel.
Don't, don't let your girl ever fall into that victim mentality. You need to empower her. Let her know how strong she is. Let her know what her gifts are and say, boy I'm looking for, I'm looking forward to, oh, that's a gift you have. Shiloh. That's a gift you [00:32:00] have, Rae Anne. I'm wondering how you, I'm wondering how God's going to use that.
I'm so excited to see how God is going to use your gift in, in this world. Because guys Rae Anne, Tony friends listening, girl, dads listening. We live in a fallen world. Yeah. And that was one of the chapters that was kind of, we started getting real, kind of deep in. But here's the point on that.
Dad enlist allies cuz your Don is gonna come up against some crud. Enlist allies, adult allies, and know who she trusts. And it's not just the youth pastor. There's a, there's somebody down the street maybe, or a friend of a friend who is who is gonna be an ally that you can talk about what girls are going through and maybe what specifically your daughter or their daughter's going through.
And then And we'll, we'll, we'll, I'll end my little speech with this idea. I'm counting on Rae Anne. It's a fallen world. It's a fallen world. I'm counting on Rae Anne being part of the solution. Hmm. You, Tony, you can count or need to [00:33:00] set Shiloh up to, for her and all our kids, but maybe daughters especially, that to be part of the solution to the, to the, to the world around them.
And no pressure ran, no pressure.
Tony: Okay, Jay, let me come back to you with another question here. Sure. I this as this podcast releases the book is releasing the same week and as this book gets into the world, What is your pRaeer for dads specifically Rae Anne? I'm gonna ask you to give a pRaeer for what your pRaeer is for daughters in just a moment.
So Jay, what is your pRaeer? For the dads who are reading this resource,
Jay: I want them to make sure that their daughter feels loved and has the ability to love. Hmm. And it might even be that simple cuz she has to love herself. She has to love herself, she has to [00:34:00] love her dad. That's what we want. And she has to love God. But also the flip side of that she needs to be able to receive dad's love and, and give love to dad.
And you have to receive God's love. And understand that the, the, the sacrifice that, that you were created in his image, that he sent his son to die on the cross and, and give you a purpose in the future. So it's not a spiritual book in, in, in that there's so much practical stuff here. And I know, I know for sure the dads will buy this book who aren't, cause it doesn't say Jesus or God on the cover.
Yeah. Dads will pick up this book and read it and I hope some non-believers read it and go, wow, maybe this God's stuff kind of works. That's a scripture verse I hadn't heard before, kind of thing. So that's kind of what I'm hoping for. To but also, also I hope it does gang forces for Rae Anne.
So she gets a, a few more book contracts and and so that's a, that's my little side benefit of this whole project is that that Rae Anne she, she's got a great career going. [00:35:00] But it's, it sure is fun to see your name in print and that's a really selfish thing, but I said, I hope you so go out and buy the book.
Call Girl Dad Guides, if I can say that.
Tony: Absolutely. And I'll tell you that this book is what I affectionately call Sneaky Jesus. Mm-hmm. Like, it's not, it's not overtly Jesus. It's sneaky Jesus. That's very good. Jesus. Which is, is a beautiful thing. Okay. Rae Anne, what's the, your pRaeer for the daughters of dads who are gonna read this book?
Rae: Well, I, you know what? Honestly, it's. It's the pRaeer that I have for, for most of the people in my life, which is the same pRaeer that Jesus pRaeed in Yosemite, which was that they not be taken from the world. It's actually, I think one of the only Bible references I put in our book is this whole, is this whole pRaeer for him that that they not be removed from the world.
But protected inside of it. I've, especially in our Christian world I've seen a lot of people, a lot of because Christian schooling was very big.[00:36:00] I went to public school, but Christian schooling was very big or starting to pop up a lot more when I was growing up. I've seen a lot of people and there's, I, I don't wanna speak against Christian schooling at all.
That's not my intention, but my intention is to say that if, as a dad. You can even, even if they go to Christian school or, or have lots of Christian friends encourage if they encourage their daughters to be. Members of the world, not citizens of the world. Right. Citizens of heaven, but, but members of the world and go out.
Yeah. And meet the people who need to be loved and need to be inspired and need to meet Jesus if they can be part of the world, but then also protected from the evil one cuz that's the other half of the pRaeer, right? I don't want them to be removed from the world, but protect them from the evil one.
And that's my pRaeer for daughters. It is a fallen world. We taught the two kind of. Deeper chapters in our book that kind of go that next step are your daughter and her brokenness. Mm-hmm. So there's that fallen nature in her. Yeah. [00:37:00] Because we're human, because it's, you know, because it's, it's a broken system that we're, that we're living in right now.
Her brokenness but then your daughter and the fallen world. So the world that she's gonna have to walk into. And the fact is, is that I know that every girl, dad, Held their daughter, and I can, I know this about my dad. I I would bet good money on you, Tony, that you held Shiloh in your arms when she was first born.
And you said, I will not let anything happen to you. I will protect you with my last breath. I will defend you. You are, I will take care of you with everything that I am. And that's a beautiful sentiment from a dad. But it's, it's unrealistic at the end of the day because even if you safeguard her and put, put her, you know, in a bubble for 18 years, at some point she's gonna step out into that world.
And so For dads, I want them to empower their daughter, be realistic with their daughter about what's happening, but also partner with [00:38:00] them to again, be a part of a solu, the solution, certainly. But for the daughters, my pRaeer is be, be sure of who you are in Jesus. Be sure of who you are. In terms of your gifts and your abilities mm-hmm.
Build up that foundation. And if you can come out of your adolescence, right, confident in who you are both, both as a Christian, as a woman, what your hopes are, what your dreams are how you can be a, a force for, you know, a, a force for the kingdom of heaven. Then everything, everything is, even if when it's hard.
Even when that world falls around you, even when you have that internal brokenness if you can stay sure in who you are and work to do that. And then and your dad's gonna mess up sometimes, right? Give him grace, but you can hold onto that relationship. So that, that would be my pRaeer. Come on, pastor
Rae Anne.
Tony: Let's, where's, let's pass the offering plate. What we do, let's go
Jay: if I'm, I'm gonna jump real [00:39:00] quickly outta that, if I may. Girl Dads out there when you're 15 year old, turns defiant and starts questioning everything. That's good news, right? That's her job. She's supposed to go through that. So celebrate that defiance because she has to figure it out for yourself.
She has to figure it out for herself. She you can't make a decision for, for Christ. You can't make it for her. She's gotta choose that for herself. And if she chooses it when she's seven, that's awesome. That's great. And I'm not gonna get into any theology when she's saved or heaven bound, but she has to choose that somewhere between the ages of 12 and 18.
She's gotta gotta make a true choice. That's deep conviction that she's gonna stick it out and then she's gotta keep making that decision every day. Again, not getting into into any theology here. But you should celebrate her defiance. That's a really weird thing to say, and I hope dads understand that.
I'm not saying that she goes [00:40:00] off the deep end to quad. You have work to do. Sure, sure, sure. You got work to do. So when when the Shiloh little sweet, little Shiloh who we met before this interview goes off the deep end for a, for a day or two, or a year or two, keep loving her, my friend. Keep loving her.
Amen. And. If she walks away and slams her door, excuse me, when she walks away and slams her door, yeah, you need to go back upstairs, down the hallway, knock on the door and say, sweetheart, Shiloh again. I'm sorry, but sweetheart, I love you so much. I hate it when we get, I hate it when this we get this way, but I, I, I'm trying to understand.
I love you so much. I, you know that I would die for you and I'm on your team, sweetheart. Let's talk again real soon so that you took, so that every conversation needs to end with you pulling her towards you and not pushing her away.
Tony: That's so I love you, but I'm taking the doors off the hinges with the right approach.
Jay: Well, there's other reasons for that too, right. And I know Dad, do I have not had to do that. I know, [00:41:00] I know, I know. But yeah. But I, I, I actually recommend that in, in the right time, in the right place. Sure, sure. Son of a gun.
Tony: Yeah. Okay. I, I have one more question for you guys. It's, it's by far the hardest question of the whole podcast.
I know Rae Anne's like, oh, I don't know about this. But before I do it, I, I know that people are gonna wanna find you on the Innerwebs Jay. I, I know that there's probably somebody listening right now who's like, man, I need to bring him to Dayton, Ohio. How do they get in touch with you? How do they learn all the things?
What's the best way to to learn all things? Jay and Rae Anne.
Jay: Well, let me jump in. The name Pay Lightner is impossible to spell, but I'll do it quickly anyways. J pay lightner.com is my website. There's all kinds of stuff there. All my books and such. J a y. Last name p a y l e i t n e r.com.
You know what you can search for Girl Dadd. I think there's actually two other books out there called Girl Dad, so don't get Ed.
Tony: We'll link to it in the show now, so anybody can just link to it in the show, this
Jay: area. But [00:42:00] if you if you, the way to find us is on the website. Books are of course available on Amazon.
They sh they will be in bookstores whether they have to order or not, I don't know.
Tony: But yeah. Ryan, are you on the internet anywhere you're hard to find?
Rae: I think, yeah. I, I'm, I'm a few different places, but mostly, mostly my other work, my, my business and consulting work. Not as much auth author written, but I'll write on his coattails on jp leer.com.
Girl. Dad, certainly. Perfect.
Tony: Perfect. Okay. Last question. I love to ask people, it's an advice question, except I get to, I ask you to go back and give yourself one piece of advice and I get to name the season of life that you're in when you do it. Okay. And Jay, I'm gonna go to you first and I'm gonna go to the day that Rae Anne was born.
The day she, she came home from the hospital shortly thereafter. If you could pull up a chair in front of that younger version of yourself, that father of now [00:43:00] five, if you could sit knee, a knee with him, hold his hands, look him in the eyes and give him one piece of advice, what would it be?
Jay: The day Rae Anne was born, I took her four older brothers down to the target up 10 miles away, and we saw Michael W.
Smith. That's, that's crazy. Rae Anne and Mom were in the hospital. There you go. So that's, that's just very amusing about that day, but I, because I had four. He, she has four older brothers who were at that toy time between five and 13 or something like that. Five and 14. I would tell j I would tell Jay.
It's like, keep, I literally, I would say keep doing what you're doing. Just keep loving these kids. It's crazy. Your life is gonna be, get even crazier in the next five years, 10 years, but you're gonna miss these days someday. Someday down the road. You're gonna miss these days to Tony, you are living right now.
[00:44:00] Just you got, you got two at home, feet at home? Three. I
Tony: got three I feet at home. Yep.
Jay: You're gonna miss these days. You're crazy. I got you going. All kinds of places you're gonna miss these days. So that's not a big a piece of advice, that's just a reality that just keep pulling your hair out and keep driving and keep doing the doing the, doing the work.
Jay. And, and listen to your wife cuz your wife has great insight. Mm-hmm. The beautiful, wonderful Rita. We wouldn't be here, Rae Anne and I wouldn't be here doing this without the lovely Rita Pay Lightner who married me 43 years ago. Holy wow. Jets. That's amazing. There you go. Amazing.
Tony: I love that. Okay, Rae Anne, it's your turn.
Go back and give yourself one piece of advice and, and I want to take you specifically To the day after high school graduation. Hmm. As I jump into your story, I feel like there's been so many changes in your life since that day and a lot of twists and turns. And here you are now an author of what will hopefully become a bestselling book.[00:45:00]
If you could go back and give that younger version of Rae Anne one piece of advice, sit knee to knee with her, look her in the eyes, what's the one thing you're gonna tell her?
Rae: Well, the, the day after high school graduation one week later my brother got married. The next week I had a graduation party, and then the next week I went, I headed off to, to Beast, which was basic training.
And and I had, like I mentioned earlier, I had a lot of plans. Right, that 18 year old had a lot of plans, very sure of what the next decade of her life was gonna be. And she had gone through some stuff, certainly was about to go through a lot of stuff in the next couple years. And if I was talking to her I would say I, you know, I'm, here's my realistic slash pessimistic point coming out a little bit, but it would almost be.
Hey, you know what? You're, you're strong. You are strong, [00:46:00] and your strength is actually, it's gonna, it's gonna hurt you a little bit here coming up because you're so sure that you, that you'll, and you will get through it, but you're so sure that it has to be you who's, who's holding the line. And I go, and you'll get through it.
I go. But I would say, Lean, lean into the hurt a little bit. Let it happen. It's gonna change you, it's gonna change the trajectory of your life. It's gonna change everything, the people and the people around you as well. But don't be afraid to lock arms with the people next to you that love you. Let them.
Hold you up, let them continue to love you and be open with them, and and certainly don't lean away from Jesus. Lean towards Jesus. I, I, you know, again, like every relationship out there, I view [00:47:00] relationship with Jesus in a few different ways, right? There's, you know, king and citizen, there's a bunch of different ways to look at it, but the way that I found the most impactful To define my relationship with Jesus as a friend and a friend who wants you to come to them.
They can't. They can't do a hundred percent of the walk to you. You have to walk to them. And so that would be my advice for 18 year old Rae Anne. You know, buckle up. Batting down the hatches a little bit, you're gonna be all right. It's gonna be different, but you're gonna be all right. But link arms with the people around you and, and lean into Jesus.
And I think that, that, that would be good advice for anyone going through going through phase change, right? Going through the unexpected. And for, and have a little bit of forgiveness for yourself when you fail to do those things. And, and, and don't feel guilty about that after the fact. Just do what you can.
Do the work that's in your hands. Get up and, and do what you can [00:48:00] every day.
Tony: Okay, pastor, I'm telling ya, if you're not preaching, I don't know what's happening. Guys, thank you so much. This was so fun. I appreciate it. Just know that if there's anything I can do to continue to support your ministry as we both continue on, I would love to do so. Thank you for putting such an important and impactful resource in the world.
I really appreciate our time
Jay: today. Tony, what a privilege. Thank you. Yeah, let's talk again some time. And I appreciate you very, very much and God bless your relationship with Shiloh. I will be looking for forward, a good report on that. Absolutely.
Rae: Thank you so much, Tony. Wonderful to spend some time with you and your hard questions, but it made us, it made us think a little bit deeper.
Tony: Woo. I love this conversation with Jay and Rae Anne. I think it's such a good one for girl dads. And for me, and honestly, I loved connecting with them. They got a great story. I expect so much more out of both of them. Love, love, love the way God is working in and through their ministry. Do me a favor, guys.[00:49:00]
Follow them on social media. Let 'em know that you're out there and you heard 'em on the podcasts. I'm really thankful. I'm really thankful that. It's a, a great opportunity to connect with people who are really impacting my life and the way that I parent. Guys, I'm thankful for you and the community that we're building here today.
Remember, if you wanna follow Jesus, you must be willing to move.
