#90: Ben Higgins: Alone in Plain Sight
Ben Higgins is a CEO, speaker, author, and former contestant on the Bachelor. He is a tremendous man of faith, and he has a message for you about what it means to be seen by God. His new book: Alone in Plain Sight is an important book that anyone struggling with identity needs to read!
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EP. 90 Ben Higgins
Tony: welcome back to the reclamation podcast, where our goal is to help you reclaim good practices for faith and life. My name is Tony Miltenberger and I get to serve as the host of this podcast. And this is episode 90 hard to believe it we're almost at a hundred is going to be great. I'm looking forward to celebrating a hundred episodes with you and just.
A couple of weeks until then, though, I'm excited to introduce you to a name you've probably already heard. Ben Higgins. Ben Higgins is the CEO of generous coffee. He is an entrepreneur, a nonprofit leader, and more famously he's formerly the bachelor that's right episode or season 20 of the bachelor. I believe Ben Higgins.
Was the bachelor and he did such a great job of living out his faith and what that means. He's got a brand new resource coming out alone in plain sight, where he talks about what it means to be seen and to be known. I loved the way he talked about intentionality and relationships and how you're serving God.
And what does that mean? And look like. And I just loved his heart and our conversation, and I think you will too. As always the best compliment you can give us is to share this episode with a friend, leave a rating or review on iTunes. It really does make a difference in helping people find us as they search for ways to grow in faith and life.
Now, without any further ado, here's episode 90 with Ben Higgins. Ben, thank you so much for being on the podcast today. I really, I really appreciate your, your generosity and your time, man.
Ben: I'm pumped to be here. It's a, it's good to take a break away from. The daily grind and just that with you and and that whatever comes up today, I'm excited for it.
Tony: Yeah. So, you grew up in Indiana and you're an IQ guy, right? Big guy. You got mine. I've got family in Lafayette, Indiana. Okay. And so they're really rooted in Purdue. So it's, is that rivalry as real for Indiana fans as it is for Purdue fans? Because I have a hard time saying I, you, without putting the word sucks behind it because of a chance.
Ben: Oh, it's it's very real. Especially when it comes to basketball. It is, it is just so real all the time. Now my parents and most of my family. Okay, so I'm going to make the statement. I think it's true. I think that was the very first on either side of my family to go to ICU. Parents went to Purdue, they met at Purdue.
They love for new I'm an only child. And so her member of my decision-making process was like, I'm not going to do what my parents did because I'm an only child and I'm going to show that I'm my own person. And that's why I went to ICU. I didn't have any clue what I was doing. I love you though. I'm glad I did.
It's a great place. But it is, it is tangible in Indiana.
Tony: Yeah. So I went to Indiana Wesleyan and yeah, I did. I did online and did my undergrad there before going on to seminary. So Indiana has a special place in my heart.
Ben: That's actually two of our employees at generous went to Indiana whistling as well.
And my aunt works there goes there. So Indiana, I know Indiana Wesleyan. Well, in fact these two employees are incredible and so Indiana, Wesley must be doing something right.
I was really, I was really impressed with the whole process, especially for a couple of their extension campus campuses in the Dayton area that we live in Dayton.
So yeah, it was, it was a great education for me and I was super appreciative of it and everybody was really good throughout that whole process. So I'm sure you got some good employees if they're if they're alum,
I do, I do. They're the best.
Tony: Now you, you grew up in Indiana and I, I'm kind of curious your, your new book alone in plain sight is a book that is laced in faith.
But one of the questions I had is w what was your faith like growing up? Give me the foundation that was built upon your faith life as a, as a young man and, and, you know, heading into college.
Ben: Oh man. Yeah. So if I look back on my, a lot of it, it's funny. I talked to my fiance about this the other day.
We were just having fun conversations about, you know, kids and how we raise our kids and things we do not do. And I was like, you know what? I can, then people are gonna freak out at me. I know they are. But one thing that I'm gonna, I'm gonna really have to walk a thin line on is the Santa Claus. Because I grew up in a house, it was so loving. So caring. And a community that was loving and caring and very Christian or Sunday. And I know like, I guess Indiana was a Methodist capital of the world for years. I mean, it's, it's about as Christian as you can get. And I grew up with a lot of comfort about like, it never was a question to me if Jesus existed or not.
Right. I never even had to really wrestle with it or process it because it's like, everybody believes this. If everybody believes it in my. In my world then, of course, it's true. Well, everybody also believed in Santa Claus until a moment we were told in a closet and exists and it rocks your world. As a kid, kind of had that same experience of getting my world rocked in college which most people do.
It's not a shocking time to have your life expanded and see other religions and other belief systems and people that didn't believe anything and had really good reasons why they didn't believe anything. Enjoy that moment in time, I really had to start wrestling with things, thinking through things, processing things.
I would explain my, my faith as a child with you. Luckily my parents, I think put in a lot of work in their life. Raise me in a home that celebrated that imitated. And that was involved with visa. And so I think they did a lot of work with that. I wasn't led completely astray when I got to college.
I had a lot of good foundations built or but I would, I think, and I say this word and I don't mean it well I think my faith as a child moving into through high school was my, my faith in Jesus was a comfort. It was just comfortable. It was, it didn't have, I didn't have any questions. It didn't have anything I need to lean to.
There was no big decision that you made. Of course it exists and there's a God that loves us. And there's a God that cares about us. And cool enough that one day when I die, I'll go to heaven. Everybody will be happy and celebrate well. Very simple too. So the comfort led led to a level of simplicity with my faith.
And as I've gotten older simplicity in my face still exist. But the comfort of it maybe has left me more for the mystery and the awe and the wonder of who God is and what God is doing and where God wants me, but that didn't come easy. It's it's never, it's never, it's not been easy since I had to kind of release this, the, the message that I grew up understanding.
Tony: It's interesting when you said that I got the image of like comfort food, right? Comfort food tastes good, but it's not always healthy for you.
Ben: Yeah. Yeah. That's true. That's a good point. Yeah, it wasn't healthy for me. It was simple. It was it was close-minded. And it didn't help me at any, like when I got to college, my faith just continued to get, I mean, I just like punched and fought against and kicked around and I was left going, I don't know what I believe anymore, because yes, you are destroying everything I've ever thought was true.
And I find out what is true. And so I. I talked to my pastor yesterday about this and I made it, I told him the statement. I said, I remember at one point it might've been after college. I said here's the thing I want to follow the truth, wherever it is. Like I, I mean, the reason I believe in Jesus, because I believe it is true.
It's not an idea and a concept it's not, not some really cool, like, you know, view that helps us all, all function in according to, you know, culture and what our society wants. I had to find truth and I'm still, I'm still constantly looking for truth and all things. But the more and more I look for truth, the more and more I started asking the hard questions.
And then the more and more I started to my hands and knees and actually cry out God, if you're there, if you're there at all right now, the more and more Jesus showed up. And and so I have to continue to lean on Jesus being true because in my personal experience, I don't know if I can convince you of it.
I don't know if I could have been somebody of, of Jesus, but because of my experience in my, my search for truth, Jesus is always there and Jesus always prove true. And but it's, yeah, it was a lot of breaking down. Before I could start building anything back up.
Well, one of the things I appreciate is towards the end of the book.
I mean, you get really in depth on, on how to lean into that discomfort of doubts. And you tell a story about Matt and there there's a phrase in there. Where you say he the call, right. For Matt to heed the call. And so I was, I was thinking about that and I was thinking about you and I, I was wondering how would you articulate your call today?
I mean, obviously you've got a public persona, you you're the CEO of a, a for purpose kind of company in generous. And you know, you're doing lots of different things. You're getting married. You know, like your life is changing, bro. Like, how do you
describe your call? Yeah. And I said that a little bit, you guys said, you know, the simplicity hasn't left and I mean it, by answering this question is my call it's proven over and over and to love others and love God.
And that's been in that is my calling is to love others and love God. Now we can talk about purpose and where I think we find our purpose. But when it comes to what I'm called to do it's to love others and love, God love my enemy. Well, love my neighbor. Well, love those around me. Well look, I think also within that umbrella of love is to look for those who feel like outside, which is where this book comes from to need Need support need need help.
So like I, like, I would hope that, you know, my, my neighbors would love me as well because I need help and I need support and I feel like an outsider. I think he's a speaks about this and shows it and represents this. And I think when we would, if we had a utopian society where we could all love each other well and love God, well the thing would work.
Like we would be in a rhythm and a movement. We could all be experiencing our own skills and our own talents and their own purposes and supporting each other in that and lifting each other up and leaning into each other when we need it. But, you know, it's, we're humans. That's not gonna be the case, but it's, it's something that I can strive for, or I can focus on and I can take responsibility my own life to love others and love God.
Tony: How has your, your new relationship and getting engaged in this process of marital prep? How, what does that kind of shown you about love? Like, has it, I mean, cause love is such a big word in our culture. And so you know, obviously you got a lot of things going on. What, what have you learned about love and this process of, of getting engaged and you guys just bought a house recently there in Denver, too, right?
Ben: Yeah, we just bought a house. Two mortgages is fun.
Tony: Especially in the Denver real estate market. No, thank you.
Ben: It's not fun. What it's taught me, well, you know, when I first met my fiance now, Jessica I've obviously had a relationship off of the bachelor that was very serious in a, and I learned a lot from that about myself really, and about what I was looking for to partner.
The one thing that When I went into relationship with Jessica, my, I think my, my, my outlook on what I was looking for was a lot different than it was maybe a couple of years previous. I wanted somebody that was empathetic. I wanted somebody that could lean in the difficult things in life. I wanted somebody that That I knew I could have the tough conversations with, about what I was struggling with and that there would be a, an understanding and a grace and a compassion for those moments.
And I want to do the same for her, but in order to do that, we, I had to find somebody who showed empathy not only to me, but to her family, to her friends, to strangers. And I did that with her. I think what it's taught me so far, In the pursuit of like getting further and further along in our relationship and building up to a wedding that we were supposed to have last year, and now we're going to have this year.
And is there is this isn't going to fill this spot, but it's the understanding that we both have or each other in our own lives that we're trying that we're attempting to do this whole thing. Well And we're not always going to do it well, but we can do it as a team. And so I'm just learning a lot of the single for years.
I've lived in this house that I'm sitting in now for eight years alone. Like I haven't had to have anybody else invade my space in a long time. And so a lot of what I'm learning is just how to give up the space to be loved and to love up the love her.
Tony: I think it's a, it might be Tim Keller who talks about the idea of marriage as being this sanctifying act that it's designed to really just rip away more of some of your stuff so that you can get closer to God through the act of marriage. Have you found that to be true?
Ben: Yeah, I have. I think Tim Keller is also the one that says that like his wife is. Been in relationship with five different men since he, he married her like that, you know, he consistently changes. Then the relationship consistently changes that she changes. You know, the, you mature, you learn you process, you go through difficult situations, excuse me.
That builds character and resolve inside of your relationship. I've, I've seen all that we've been together for you know, over two and a half years now. I've, I've seen the ripping away. The things that I needed to rip away. I've seen the, somebody that cares about me and that I care about them.
And there there's a responsibility that, you know, when you invite somebody into your life to be loved and for you to love, and there's a responsibility for how you cultivate that relationship and the things that you do and don't do. And the ways that your mind to ask that you came to the freedoms that you don't necessarily have to give up, but the way your freedoms kind of shift.
It's also been really cool to have somebody that, so for me, I think one of the cool things is have somebody that knows me so well and continues to know me so well. I think that's been really fun for me. It to have somebody that's so invested into who I am and where I'm going and what we're doing together it's kept me accountable.
And and as an only child and dude who is. Single, like I said, for years and lived alone for years, I need accountability. I need somebody to stand beside me and say like, Hey, you're doing great. Or, Hey, you could do better.
Tony: I was on your Instagram the other day. I was probably yesterday actually. And I noticed that you guys had sat down to start to watch the new season of the bachelor and by the way, my. I've done podcasting now for two years. And my staff has never been more excited for an interview than they are with me and you. So Kristen and Nicole were just like beyond they ask if they could come sit in the room.
And I was like, you can, that is so weird. You cannot, but I, I guess I didn't realize how, how much fervor there was for that show. I mean, the fans are super passionate and, and just so I saw you guys with their written on Matt, James, who seems like a great guy. I don't know if you know him or not, but it seems like a great guy.
When you watch something like that, does it give you PTSD? I was in the army for a long time and sometimes when I watch certain clips or certain spaces. It kind of like who makes me sweat a little bit breathe heavy. Does that, does that does that happen for you when you sit down, watch that show?
Ben: Well, it's funny EA, so by the way, has a huge following. When you started doing the show, you have no clue of the following until you get off of the show and you're like, Like people will now tell you, I watch other people that you never expect. They're like, I love that show. I never expect this, but people watch it.
Tens of millions of people watch it and they watch it with complete investment. And so, yes, I've learned that you know, it probably used to, I get a lot of this show now and five years it was a great season of life for me. It did, you know, it was really good to me personally. I, I learned a lot about myself.
I learned a lot about what I needed to work on. It allowed me the space to do things like this. Like today I get to talk to you. I don't, I don't think that happens. Or the HODs are a lot less if I wasn't on the show. I would've been able to write a book and and have a platform to promote this book and talk about this book.
But. Like weird over the last, maybe two years. And the thing I've been working on the most is, is one of the common feelings I get now is is I forget it. And then it's like an envy at the, the people that are on it now, not only a good Indian, a bad it'd be like, I could never go back and do that again.
I would never want to go back and do that again. I'm very happy and very much in love, and I have a great thing going. But that was an exciting time in life. I went from being a software salesman and a good job. I don't hate that job, but I love it. And within a couple months being the bachelor and for the first time in my life, like people started to care about what I said and what I did and who I was dating.
And it, it was an exciting time for me. Yeah. And I just talked to Matt about this actually, and the fame piece of this gets really exciting. It's it's fun for a bit. But I've learned now that fame has never been fulfilling. It's never been a pursuit that has ever left me feeling anything, but wanting more.
And so there's been a ripping away over the last two years. Of a, and maybe this is the PTSD is the ripping away of what am I going to be about? What is my legacy about what, what, who, who is, who am I because the pursuit of thing more relevant, or to staying engaged in the, in the fame process. Now fame may come and that's not a bad thing.
What are you going to do with that thing? It's been a really fun switch for me to say, okay, this isn't about me ever been about me when I made it about me. It never worked out well. And there's memories of when I started to make it about me, that I have PTSD from it. It was some really just like really well only time in my life.
Yeah. W one of my beliefs is that a prolonged stress in our lives turns the cracks in our lives into canyons. So if, if you have any crack in your persona, like if there's a bad coping mechanism, if there's stress and I've seen this on deployment, and I would imagine it has to be the same way in something like the bachelor, right?
Where they're going to record you over an extended period of time, it adds up certain level of stress. Now interesting for the army is that the number one purchased by most soldiers when they returned from deployment is a motorcycle because they can't get the adrenaline rush. Anywhere else. Right. And so they're trying to get the adrenaline rush, right?
It's a crack in their life that has now turned into a Canyon. If you think about the people that you know, from, from that world. D do you think that that's an accurate representation? Like it, it kind of blows up the best and worst parts of who you are?
Yeah, definitely. Well, I was sitting with a guy right here at this table who was on the show after me, a guy, and he went, he ran the fame race as hard as he could.
He. The soaked it all in and tried to soak it in from a hundred different angles. He sat here, I don't know, maybe six months ago. And he was in tears and he's like, I've lost myself. I don't know who I am anymore. I, I chased out for this thing that I thought I wanted, that I thought I needed it and I've lost myself in the process and I've lived at that point.
It was three years of my life chasing after everything. And an understanding, nothing that ain't, that's what I see often with the show. It's my only warning to bachelors. I don't have a lot of advice to get Matt. James is going to do a great job. He's going to be a good guy. He was chosen for a reason, the guys before him, the same thing.
But my only advice these days that I've, at least it's been through to this point. It's never let your head get too big. Never let it get too small. Stay in it for who you are. In fact Chris Harrison, the host of the show told me I chew this a lot, but shared some advice with me after I got off the bachelorette before I was announced as a bachelor.
And it was right afterwards, he was like, Hey, I think you're gonna be the bachelor. And what are you gonna do with it? And like, I don't really know, man. I don't know how to answer that. I, I, this wasn't a part of my five-year plan and he said, You said, here's the advice I would give you is use this to enhance the life you've already have not changed your life completely.
And so I've taken that advice in, because what I had before wasn't relationship with Jesus that moment in time I realized that 10 can never be about me. And so, yeah, it w whenever I did start to about me, those cracks did start to get bigger, or they're a lot more noticeable. I started to lose myself and, and chase after things are one things and desire, things that were not helping me or anybody else around me, it wasn't loving myself.
It wasn't loving others. It wasn't loving God. It was just trying to fill a void. And when I started to make it about something greater than me, it all actually started to become a lot of fun. They're all starting to make a lot of sense and all are actually starting to get a lot less stressful because I was never the focus.
And I just get to be involved in some really cool stories. When we start making about something greater than ourselves.
Tony: You tell some of those stories in the book. One of my favorite ones is, is two of my favorite ones, probably the big ones, Abby and Avery. So you mentioned Annie, I'm sorry. Yep. Any and Avery first of all, how's Avery doing? Cause he had COVID in the book.
Ben: Three times, man.
Tony: Holy smokes.
Ben: And he he is healthy now. I think he's, COVID free as of maybe last week. I haven't seen the dude in a long time because he's, I mean, when he gets on locked down, like it's locked down.
Tony: Well, he was on lockdown. I mean, you, can you describe him kind of as like a bubble boy? Almost like in the yeah. Yeah. And so I can't imagine how sensitive he has to be to that.
Ben: I mean, here's the story of Avery and you'll read about in the book, but I met Avery when I did a visit at the children's hospital back in the day.
And You met a lot of people that day, but he had his room was like completely isolated. It was locked off. It was it was corn team. I think I might even use that word in the book. Like it was poor. And Jean before quarantine was a thing, he was the bubble boy, like for a year of his life. He had no human connection, a connection.
He. Well, they come in and hazmat suits and he didn't function with any like irises coming into his system. Because he is so sick and he still is sick. His immune system is completely compromised at every level. So, you know, I won't give the story away, but the cool thing I see and learn from that experience is what is it like to be disconnected completely like physically disconnected, forced to be disconnected?
I've learned a lot from that dude. A lot of wisdom exists in his life because of that experience. But he's good now. He's a tool, man. He's the best. I think he's back to work. He's he's, he's brewing beer down at the, there's a brewery here in town called breathability it's for people who have any mental handicaps or physical handicaps.
They hire him on and that's who runs this whole thing. It's a beautiful thing to walk over in Denver. It's the coolest thing to stop by and see. But yeah, he's down there, man. I think he's managing it now, which is great. But yeah. Historically, and as you mentioned, Annie story is one. Again, that comes, I mean, there's a cool story, but it comes from the show is friends of Annie reached out to me and said, Hey our friend Annie is passing away.
He was supposed to get her third lung transplant. And unfortunately she's been declined for it. And so he doesn't have long left and we're in a video of a bunch of her favorite celebrities kind of just saying hi to her. But in my video and all the video, then when it came back to me, they sent it to me and I was like, you know, this doesn't feel like enough.
It's sending a video. Doesn't feel like it, there's gotta be more here. And so I reached out to a friend said, can I talk to Annie? Mostly selfishly, I just wanted to talk to any and learn. And that chapter goes into our conversation of what it's like to know your dying and what it's, what it's like to be facing death.
Not, not in. At the time, that's kind of mysterious to us when, when none of us know when we're gonna die, but like knowing it's coming up, like knowing there's almost a date that you could put and say, this is big. I don't know if the chapter does it justice, but weight, heaviness boy East and those conversations for me are sacred.
It probably the best way to say it. Like they far, they. They go a lot farther than anything I can ever explain probably through words, but talking with her in her last couple of weeks, I think the whole book could have just been that, like, if I could have gotten that section out, it would have been worth it because he was special.
It's it's obvious to me that in some of these moments that you have really given all of yourself and, and that's where I see you using your platform to glorify God in such a powerful way. I, I'm curious how, how do you discern when is the right time? Because obviously you're, you're only, you're limited.
Right? And, and so one of the questions I always love to ask people is how do you hear from God? And then how do you know when. To act like what's your process of, cause I would imagine that a guy in your position gets requests. Frequently.
Yeah. And I was on, I don't know if you know Bob Goff, but I was on his podcast last year and he didn't tell me the topic.
I don't know, it's his thing. And we, we started the thing and he goes, we're going to talk about time management and the pleading resources question. And I had to look at it and say, I don't know how to answer it. And I'm almost going to say the same thing to you, but I've learned a little bit since that question has been going on in my head for the last year, since he asked me I think one, I mean, this is like not anything too spectacular.
One thing I've done is I've, I've, I've brought in other people help filter and bring resource to me and help me and help me to go through those things. The other thing that we say at generators, because generis gets a lot of these requests and this may be the best way to say it. Is we look to invest into non-profits or social causes that are effective in their mission.
So they've proven their effectiveness. They're sustainable. So they have a long-term outlook on, you know, if you're bringing people out of sex trafficking not only are you helping recover them and get them to safety, but you're also helping rehab with mental health hoping to get them to a place of, of sustainability.
Active sustainable and efficient. They have to be efficient in their funding and what they do now. I like to say the same thing for my life. I want to invest in the things that are, are people focused. I love animals, but I think I'm all to be working with people in the resources that I do have in the time that I do have I look to for And people that that want to, you know, want to get better.
And if they don't want to get better, I want to know why they don't want to get better, but I can't help somebody who doesn't want to get better. Right. They're sustainable that are effective and they're efficient. It gets really hard. I don't have a great answer to that. It's something that I'm still struggling with.
Because you get a, you get an email from a wonderful human who's saying, Hey, I'm hurting and I need somebody to talk to. And you maybe get into those a day. Well, that, that's hard to keep up with. Sure. It's, it's a constant pull. And if, if somebody ever out there who is listening to this has a really good answer on how to do this.
I would love to hear it. But it just hasn't, it hasn't gotten a rhythm for me yet.
Tony: Yeah, I think it's probably one of those things where you just have to constantly live in the tension of every request. Yeah. And I, I don't envy the position for sure, but but what you've done with it as beautiful, as a matter of fact, I saw the message that you did for address member.
My family and I are we're big advocates for dress summer. My wife's done it for seven years and I had on the, on the podcast a while ago. And she's an amazing human doing amazing things. So yeah, there's a lot of tension in those kinds of things all the time.
Ben: Yeah, it is. Maybe living in the tension.
I would also say like in my younger years right after the show maybe, or even before the show, it was kind of always resentful to the request, push it away or go one more thing, you know, roll your eyes and be like, okay, I'll get it and do it. I'm I'm learning. Maybe it's because I have more time and maybe the requests are slowing down or.
It doesn't really feel like they are like get excited about the idea that I I'm still asked to be involved. I'm excited that I still get the opportunity to be a part of these things. These are incredible things, like you said, dress timber and things that I get to advocate and be a part of, I believe in them.
And that's why I'm speaking upon them. And I, and I don't necessarily want to go away. I want to live in attention. I feel fortunate to even have the ability to be in the tension. That's a very, very fortunate place to sit is to even have the opportunity the involved and, and I would like to then like, kind of swing this to say and then part of the book is this is, you know, I was at at my cousin's a theater program and all these kids are so sad that your program was leaving because they were going to miss the group that they had around them.
And this will tie into what I was saying is, and my, it came to my mind at that time. I was like, well, why don't you go out and CRE. This group outside of, you know, Indiana or Marion, Indiana. Why don't you go out and create this group? W wherever you go in this world, because you know how it feels to be loved and to love others and show understanding and grace and empathy, like do that.
And so I'm fortunate to sit in the tension of it because I get a platform to do it on. I think everybody has a platform. Sure. You breath, like you're here. Like that's a big platform. That's not, not a lot of people. The opportunity to be on this earth and to have breadth and to have value and purpose.
And we all have that. Mine just happens to come with a million followers on Instagram and that's great. It doesn't like, I don't know if the data and the numbers change the impact. I think I'll always have an incredible calling upon us. And that is to again, love God and love others.
Tony: Well, and I, I, I think, especially in the season of COVID, that we're in and that's such an important message.
I, you know, I've seen so many people are like rocked by the fact they can't go back to Sunday morning worship and I'm like, man worship is so much bigger than Sunday morning. It's it's, it's everything that we get to do. For God with our lives and making disciples and, and going out and you know, living kind of our, our call, like, like you said how do you stay rooted in your faith on a, on a daily basis with all the things that you do?
Any, any daily practices that you're like, man, my day, like will not go well. If I don't do X, Y, and Z.
Ben: I do. One of them is working out. I think that's a great practice, my spiritual, emotional, mental health. I think it's understated oftentimes, but that is a incredible thing for me to be able to do another thing that I'm very fortunate to be able to do, but it's a great practice for me. It kind of resets the day.
I do it first thing in the morning. I workout CrossFit guy. What, what do you do? It's like it's called F 45. It's like a, it's like a CrossFit ish gym without heavy weight and so terrible knees, man, bad high school injuries. And so
Tony: I, I heard that in the book and I resonated, I had, I tore my ACL and meniscus last year doing box jumps.
Ben: Okay. So you get it. And and so like I have to take it easy. Like I, I still can get the cardio, I got to take it easy. The other thing is I am a big fan of contemplation you back last night. And I'm always healthier when I do I'm feeling pretty good today because last night I was sitting here at this table and I, I do this weird thing.
People think it's odd, but I love it. I turn off all the lights in my house and I play last, last night I was played Josh girls' new album. And I heard it's really good. And he of, yeah. Of hers. He's a beautiful voice. Be covering some some worship songs, but also just some really good, like I would call them like songs, like life songs, like anything, like they don't necessarily have to be in the Christian realm.
They're just speaking of things of the heart and of the soul and that we all experience. And so I turned that on. I turned off all the lights off, I turn on a candle and I just sit. And, and I draw oftentimes and Show you the picture I drew last night, but that would be weird. But I do that often.
It helps, it helps me refocus. I mystery of God is still something that's so intriguing to me. And when I'm constantly overwhelmed and inputted with communication. I don't think about these things. Like I don't, it's hard for me to like, be in, in being a place of peace and comfort and understanding.
And so. The times of silence are really big for me, I'm a huge advocate of silence, no matter who you are. I think the tension of silence, I think letting your mind in a sense, Oh, and, and, and through that, like almost pray through the silence is an incredible thing where all of a sudden life starts to not click there's nuggets in there.
There's things that you remember. And I do that often, and I think that helps me it also. In this thought, I know I'm rambling. In this doll, in the silence, I oftentimes I have this notebook that sits in front of me and all of a sudden, like there's somebody in my life that comes up to my mind, you know, I don't think about it.
So I write them down and then I want to contact them, whatever reason, maybe it's just to say hi, That allows me the space to start to think about who have you neglected or who have you not spoken to, who needs to hear from you, or who do you want to hear from? And so I use that time also to kind of a strategy that sounds super, super a religion or whatever your discipline, but I get a strategy for where and who I want to communicate with.
Oh, that's, that's my big, I'm a big fan of sun.
I love that. We often say here that if you're not dedicated to your disciplines, you'll be destroyed by your distractions.
I stayed distracted a lot.
Tony: I want me to I'm all over the place, so I, I really find that dwelling with God, the way that you're talking about. Is a, is a perfect, I do mine in the morning. And one of the things I've been trying to do, even after Mike, my scripture time and my prayer time is like sitting in silence. And that's so hard for a guy that likes to talk. do you and Jessica do anything together?
Ben: We pray a lot together. You know, and we're, we're getting a good balance here. I seem to be a critic a lot. So we'll leave maybe church on Sundays and I'd be like, that's that it with me? Like, I don't get it. Like, help me understand this. Like no pastor said this, but yet the way I read in scripture or the way that I've seen, I don't react this world.
Doesn't with what was being said. And can we talk about it? And she does, like, I love her because she sits down like. There's also times where it's like, he does, she doesn't, she's not a critic. Like she's, he celebrates and she loves hard and she loves well. And but, but I always enjoy when we can have those conversations or sometimes I notice I ramble for 45 minutes and she sits there and at the end, she goes, I'm glad we can talk about it.
But faith is, is the cornerstone of our relationship. In, in the most, I would say real way. It's it's what we both turn our eggs in. Like our bat, our basket is full of Jesus' sags and we're saying, Hey, if you take Jesus away from me, you take everything. And so as a result, our relationship is built on that and we have trust and faith that, that Jesus is going to work through us and with us.
The cool part of that is, is Jessica. As a heart or desires to involve herself in the lives of others who are hurting and needing as well. And so we do we do that together is I think one of the coolest things we can do.
Tony: Yeah. That's awesome. I, a big fan of. Spouses who pray over each other as well.
Like, so as a, when I'm doing premarital counseling, I always challenged my couples that I think that if couples who can get into a regular habit of praying over each other, if you have to pray for your wife's head and her heart, and then she prays for your head and art every day, I found it to be transformational.
In the marriage and like physically laying hands on them to pray is such a powerful act in, in a discipline, especially on days when you don't like them.
Ben: Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's a big deal. Huh?
Tony: I also usually tell the guys that it's a great way to it's a great way to say something without your wife interrupting you.
Ben: Yeah. You get like, it's a moment of silence. Know, it's, it's been a really cool, this is, this is a relationship, but I've had others that, you know, we, we share a common faith. But you know, you asked earlier one of the things I'm learning, it's, it's such a it's made life not only more beautiful, but it's, it's really good to have that partner sitting beside you, holding you accountable to the things that you're saying is what does she need in our relationship?
And also, what does she need to continue to pursue Jesus with everything he has? I used to be a part of that now, like a part of that. And I haven't held that responsibility in anybody's else's life ever, where I've been asked the such a keeping connected piece to their journey that I believe is the most beautiful adventure we'll ever go on.
And so yeah, it's been fun. We're. We're. W we, we, we try our best. That's awesome.
I love it. So my listeners love to pray for people and I'm curious what they can pray about in regards to this book. So like, as this, as it's writing comes out and there's some incorrect, well messages in here that people need to hear what, what's the, what's the prayer as this book gets launched out into the wilderness.
Definitely. He's got a good time and this probably isn't there's, won't be the fluffy thing that I probably should say. But the publisher has a lot invested into this. My, my risk reward is, you know, writing this book. Yeah. Putting myself out there to the best of my ability. The one thing I hope for in this is that at the end of it all, we can all celebrate.
This was good. And so the prayer here is that this is good. Now I've used to say, I would love to sell so many copies of this book. Well, what I realized is that isn't again, fulfilling. What I really hope is that one person resists and their life has changed for the better, or they feel less alone.
After reading this book. That's my hope. If I summarize it and say, I hope that one person at least can feel less alone after reading this book and it would all be worth it because I, I, I personally want to live with live with the belief that that is the value that one person has in this world is that if one person is helped and this has all been worth it, however, there's the side of this that says, Hey, I hope we can.
All, all these people who have put in blood, sweat, and tears into this book and who have risked. Selves into it, myself included in my team and then team at the publishing company. But the end of this, we can all look at each other and this was good. Like this was this was something that we can celebrate.
I want to be able to celebrate this book, not only because it's the very first thing in my life that I've ever done that I've kind of created written marketed, promoted. But also because it is me it represents me. It's my story. And, you know, I want, I want celebration. So people can be praying that this book is a place of celebration for all of those involved, including the readers who get it, pick it up and read it.
We can all celebrate it at some point.
Tony: I love that. So where's the best place for people to go to learn more about you or the book or if you're doing any book tours or anything like that, I'm sure COVID makes everything weird. So where's the best place for people to start for more information?
Ben: Definitely. Ben Higgins book.com. I would say pre-orders are helpful. It helps kind of set the stage for the launch. It gets people it gets, you know, the big, like friends and Nobles and Amazons and all those play targets, all those places kind of interested in it. So pre-orders really help.
And so if you're like, Hey, this book sounds like something, I would like if I feel, if you've ever felt alone or if you've ever felt disconnected from yourself, from others from romance or from God I believe, yeah, this book could be a book that would be at least a benefit or something you should pick up.
If you've ever felt that way in your interest in it, pre-ordering it right now would be super helpful. So Ben Higgins book.com is the place to go. Also have all the dates of non-existent book tour because of COVID hasn't been cleared yet. So yeah, that would be the best. That's awesome.
Tony: Okay. Last question. I always love to ask people. It's a, it's an advice question. If you could go back and give yourself one piece of advice, except I like to make it a very specific moment. So from my understanding, you met Jessica by sliding into her DMS, as it's told on the internet. If you could go back. And I guess it's several years now and give yourself one piece of advice.
As you begin to start this relationship with her, what's the piece of advice you would say?
Ben: I think the advice I would say is to start you know, okay, let me, let me preface this. Cause it was a conversation I had with my best friend. When I met Jessica, I knew it was going to be special. Actually given the advice I would've given myself, this is probably three months after meeting here and I called my best friend struggling.
I w I'm falling in love with this girl. She's incredible in every way. Being single has been exciting. I'm still known as the bachelor. In fact, the bachelor at that point was still calling me. To say, Hey, would you ever want to do the show again? Like that is exciting. It, it feels good. The be there.
And I said, I'm, I'm worried, man, that I'm about to enter a relationship, but I, I don't know if the excitement is gonna still be there. Years from now, when he looked, he was married, he is married. And he sat me down and he said, here's my advice to you. Yes. Things might not be as I forget kind of erratic.
Yes. Life might meet might not be as exhilarating or there, the adrenaline of constant new thing might not be there, but entering into a relationship with somebody like Jessica and entering into a committed relationship at all, allow life to be so much more beautiful and fulfilling. It was a moment that I, I now see.
I've experienced that I'm in it. Right. I wish I would have given myself that when I first met her, because I think when I first met her, there was that wall of insecurity up going Hey, I think this thing's a real deal. I'm lucky to have you in my life, but I'm nervous about what this means. And, and I wish I could have given myself the advice back then to say, no, this is going to make your life so much more beautiful.
This is going to make your life so much more fulfilling. The possibilities in front of you are endless. And now you can do it with a partner. I lived in, I lived in too much in my own head for too long but that would be an advice.
Tony: That's awesome. Ben, thank you so much for your generosity today, with your time and for for this writing and for what I think it's going to do for so many people. So I, I really appreciate the time today.
Ben: Tony. Thank you, man. It's been awesome.
Tony: What a phenomenal conversation with Ben? I'm so thankful for his heart and his time today. He was so generous and I love the way he talked about what it means to be seen and known by God in ways to connect in his.
Meditation practice and just how important it is to be disciplined about our connections. I really hope that everyone hears that in his words today. Again, please share this episode with a friend, leave a rating or review on iTunes. Those are the best two ways that you can support the podcast. We're always trying to get the word out, tag us on social media.
If you want. I'm at TW Milt follow Ben Higgins and be sure to pick up a copy of his book alone in plain sight. Thank you guys so much. And I look forward to seeing you. Next week, episode 91.
