#140: Carey Nieuwhof: At Your Best
Leadership guru, podcaster, author, and my virtual mentor for the past ten years.
Carey Nieuwhof is passionate about helping you live life at your best. We talk about energy zones, productivity, and why it all matters to your walk with Christ.
Links:
EP. 140
Tony: [00:00:00] Hey everybody. Welcome back to the Reclamation Podcasts, where our goals to help you reclaim good practices for faith and life. I'm Tony. And today is episode 140, the podcast where I sit down with legendary. Podcasts or speaker and author, Carrie new Hoff, Carrie and I first met about 10 years ago and he began to share with me and with thousands of other, literally his content is accessed by over a half a million people every single month.
And it's all about how to live and lead at your best. We talk about what it means to be in your thrive cycle. We talk about color zones from his latest. At your best. We talk about all of it and so much more in this conversation. Hey, do me a favor. If you enjoyed this conversation, leave us a rating or review on iTunes on Spotify.
Anywhere you listen to [00:01:00] podcasts, we're excited to connect with you. Also, if you can share this episode with a friend or follow Carrie on socials, let them know that you heard them here on the reclamation podcast. I'm so thankful to be on this journey with each and every one of you. And now without any further.
Here's my conversation with Carrie new off. Hey everybody. Welcome back to the podcast. I'm excited today to this is kind of like a bucket list interview for me because I get to interview someone who's been mentoring me for the last decade in so many things. The legendary carry new Hoff, Carrie, thank you so much for being here.
Carey: I get to be on your show. This is really exciting. Tony. We've met in real life a couple of times, and I've been following each other online for a while. So just a thrill to be with you. And thank you so much for having.
Tony: I'll tell you that I I've taken so many of your courses and through the midst of my ministry career, I've had the privilege of watching your your calling and kind of your [00:02:00] mission shift methods to use one of your phrases over the years.
I'm curious you've gone from lawyer to, from pastor to founding pastor, to teaching pastor, and now the CEO of Well off business from all you know, aspects on the outside, in any way. How would you define your calling in 2021?
Carey: Yeah. I feel a very intense calling to help people thrive in life and leadership.
So I've a real heart for leaders. I know a lot of leaders are not thriving. And I would say this feels like a call at the season of my life. If you'd asked me five years ago, when I had exited being the lead pastor of a church, I would be like, I don't know what I'm doing right now. Just this hobby is taking up a lot of my time, but since.
You know, God kind of shook me down in 2018. I feel like. And. He's like, okay. Have you enjoyed two years off of like ministry? Would you like to come back and work for me? Full-time again. And I'm like, I [00:03:00] don't know. But it was, it was like I'd stepped out of day-to-day ministry and was still teaching at our church, but then I had this hobby podcasting and.
And all that. And I didn't have a lot of staff. I had a couple of assistants just to help with the volume. Cause we, we had a lot of listeners and readers and stuff like that, but it was, it was easy. I could just shut it down if I wanted to. And then it was like, well, do you want to really staff it? I'm like, oh, then I payroll again.
And then I got a team that I got to lead and do I want to do that? And I felt like, God kind of said, you know, well, if you want to come back to work, like there's lots of stuff that we can do. In the future. And so after a season of prayer and reflection, I'm like, yeah, I'm in. And so now I've got a staff now we've got a company now we've got a payroll and but it's a joy to get up and do this every day.
So that's what I'm doing these days. And really it's just, it's, it's kind of helping people from a slightly different perspective than I did for 20 years in the church or than I might've done in law. Had I [00:04:00] had.
Tony: Yeah. So I'm curious, what's it like to have because I know that your son's on your team and I know your wife is a partner with you in some things, what's it like to have the family dynamic in? I mean, this is truly kind of a family. But it's a little bit bigger than a family business. How's that working out?
Carey: Yeah. Three of the eight or nine are family. They have new hops, assesses a last name. I had never, my wife and I, my wife. And I said for years, sorry about that. My wife and I said for years that we would never be able to work together and here we are working together. So she was always at a law firm or a hospital or a pharmacy or that kind of thing.
And, you know, then my son that was like, I didn't set out to work with Sam, but he was in accounting and he worked in a bank tower. Did not like it. For a variety of reasons, love the people, not the career or the work. And he was 23. [00:05:00] Of course, I'm his dad. I'm trying to encourage him to stay and, you know, get your ticket or whatever.
And he was just ready to go. And I'm like I said, well, what are you going to do? And he said, I don't, I don't know dad. And I said, well, our company was at an inflection point. I said, we're growing like crazy. I can't do the finance anymore. Like, it's way beyond my pay grade. And he was an accountant. I said, why don't you come on and be the CFO, the manager.
And then that's not a full-time job. We're not that big. I'll give you marketing or growth or something. And that was two and a half years ago and he's done just a killer job. And it's one of the great joys in my life. And then my wife had practiced either pharmacy or law for most of the time I was in ministry.
When the kids were young, it was very, very part time. And then. When our youngest was in high school, she kind of went to full-time law and got into a family law, really trying to help families stay together. But by the time he'd go and see a lawyer, [00:06:00] you know, you're pretty far gone as far as staying together goes.
So Tony said I really want to help people stay together, not pull them apart. And So, you know, she stepped back from law and thought, I don't know what I want to do with the next chapter of my life. And then. She had a book idea. And literally within a month of her stepping back from the firm she got a book offer and we tried to figure out how to do it corporately.
And she had her own company, but you law's very restricted in what you can use your company for. I'm like, well, I have a broader corporation. Why not? Come under my umbrella. So now, now there's three of us working in the family. We're trying to get my oldest son in. But I don't think I can afford them.
He's a software engineer. So anyway but no, it's, it's fantastic. And you know, we warn all the rest of the team members. Hey, we're all connected, but we try to keep it very professional. And so it's, it's a great joy to actually be working together and enjoying it. [00:07:00]
Tony: But one of the things I know about your team is it's predominantly made up of, of the next generation of leaders, right?
You're, you're very open about how intentionally you hire young leaders. I'm curious, what have you learned about yourself and the process of hiring the next generation, these, these young leaders, what have you kind of seen in the mirror as you've made these hires?
Carey: They have a lot of energy and a lot of joy and a lot of enthusiasm, which I love.
I think that's fantastic. There are also a really good check against my instincts and my preferences. So one of the things as a, as a leader myself, in my mid fifties, I realized that my attitudes, beliefs, and preferences were shaped in a different set of decades than theirs were. So. You know, everything from branding to approach to methodology.
I find I, I rely on my judgment less and less than there's more on [00:08:00] more because most of my audience is their age. Most of my audiences, 35 and under. And so, you know, the good news is they want to hear from an older leader like myself, the, the, the tougher part of that is it's very easy to get out of touch.
It's very easy to. Pretend like I threw something on my social. One of the trends of 2021 is restaurants are dumping their menus for QR codes. And I think it's a really dumb idea. And. I just think it's cheap. I think it's harder. I don't want to look at a menu, although I have, you know, brand new iPhone, you know, the latest, latest, and I've decent eyes.
I don't, I don't want to go look it up every time and take the picture, but you know, my audience who's younger is most of them thought it was a really cool idea. I'm like, all right, what do I know? I don't know. So I think they're a really good check. They get a lot of enthusiasm and they research things.
In a different way than I would. So I feel like I get to bring a [00:09:00] little bit of the wisdom they could to bring a lot of the freshness and the innovation and actually two of the major ideas. And I want, I can't say anything about them right now, but two of the major initiatives we'll be doing next year. I did not think of a 25 year olds on the team, came up with them.
And so we're going to do it. And I, I think that.
Tony: Yeah, I once heard you say at, at the change world conference at Kingsburg churches, that that, that you want to create a church that someday you wouldn't want to attend. Right. When we talk about mission over method, I'm curious is that's kind of, is that what's happening in your own business?
Carey: Maybe to an extent, I mean.
Tony: Part of it to an overstatement.
Carey: Yeah, yeah, yeah. The whole idea behind create a church you no longer want to attend is eventually you age out on stuff like music and preferences, et cetera. So. I should be leading a church or part of a church that I'm like, oh, I don't really like the music.
I don't know. They bring back, you know, Hillsong or why don't they bring [00:10:00] back elevation worship, or I thought worship one more time, oceans one more time. Or, you know, elevation worship was better five years ago than they are today. Right? Like you eventually get in that space or why are preachers doing it this way?
And so, you know, I, I do think there's an element of that in the company. On the other hand, I feel less. Leading a church at different than leading a company, leading a church. It's like, you're leading a church. Like it's a church, it's the church. This is in the Bible. You better not screw it up. And there, there, there's, there's a higher level of accountability and stewardship.
Now, you know, there's a level of accountability before God, before the government, when you're running a business. But I feel like the lines are a little less set and you get to play. Paint on a bigger canvas. So we get to do some things that maybe you couldn't do at the church, which is, which is really kind of fun.
And you know, it's also like if the church fails, I feel really [00:11:00] responsible. If my business fails, it's like, I'm going to take really good care of the team, but it's just a business at the end.
Tony: So one of the things that you and your team had been putting out a lot recently is about the great resignation.
And, and you, you had a podcast today, episode four 60 with Ken Coleman. You've blogged about it recently, and I've been watching you write about it more and more. And one of the things I know about you is that you test things out before you, you put out big, even bigger thoughts. I'm curious, is there a connection.
W what's the connection rather between the great resignation and burnout? Are they the same thing? Are they different? I can't quite put my finger on if I think they're they're one in the same, or if it's more of a, a clarity of calling versus burning.
Carey: It's a perceptive question, Tony. Cause I hadn't really thought about it until you raised the question, but yeah, I think there is a linkage.
So, you know, the great resignation I'm I try to help leaders process the stuff that nobody is helping them [00:12:00] process. So we all know the great resignation is happening. It's been pretty well-documented, you know, a year ago on my podcast, William Vanderbloemen came on and this is the first inkling of it. He just said, I think 20, 21 is going to be your, of height.
So I called the episode, the year of turnover and it performed really, really well, thousands, tens of thousands of leaders access to it. I'm like, well, he's right. He thought there was a glitch in the system anyway, long story short, you know, then it turns into the great resignation and people are leaving and everything.
And so, you know, that, that really surprised me how big the story is, how historic it is. We'll solve the leaders I serve are being impacted by it. So that's why I wanted to cover the story. And again, I'm not the wall street journal. USA today I'm a blogger and a podcaster. So I can just add a little bit of color commentary here and there, you know, along the way, but what I'm seeing in the comments on social [00:13:00] media, on the articles on my website is a lot of people who are very frustrated, very burned out.
And I think what happened is that the, you know, the. What would I say? The exit has been a catharsis of sorts about some of this function in the system. So if you go into my website, you start looking at some of the articles. It's like, I was just so sick of the toxic culture. I was tired of my boss. I was tired of being told to give, give, give, and never received CFC leave.
So I left now one of the sub stories of the great resignation is it's not the panacea. Everybody thought it would be. You leave your company. And it's like, oh, this new job isn't any better or I don't have a job or now I'm at a job I don't want, and now what do I do? Right. So that's the part nobody's really covering, but that's starting to happen.
But what I do. Is that, you know, COVID the last two years has been a very defining moment for a lot of us. We realized when our whole life got seized, so to speak, [00:14:00] there were parts of it. We didn't like there were parts of it that we wanted fixed. And now that we have this power, this freedom, we can work independently.
We can work from anywhere we can leave. There are lots of jobs out there. We have the sense of freedom. And it's a sense, I think, in a way. We get to, to just vent our concerns now, where I think that will land is we realize, oh, I brought myself with me to my new job and I have some unhealthy patterns I probably need to deal with.
And this new job isn't better than the old job. So it might be a little bit of Groundhog day, but I think at least it gives us the opportunity to perhaps recast the.
Tony: Yeah, I think that's probably a good word. And I think one of the things that I've heard you talk about before, and I've seen in my colleagues and even in my own life, is that, that sometimes it's about just taking off the things that were.
Maybe obstacles before. Right. And [00:15:00] so we're, we're kind of freeing ourselves up to do the work that we feel like God has called us to. As you think about your calling and as you think about the work that you're doing how do you discern what's God's voice and what is just frustration, burnout? Like, how did you know, in 2018, God was like, come on back, Gary, come on back.
Carey: Yeah. It's a really good. Question. So in 2015, let me go back a few years. When I stepped out of the lead pastor role. When I, when I going back 25 years, when I got called into ministry, I felt a very clear sense of calling. Like I, I thought, okay, that's God. I know it's God. And that's a story for another day leaving ministry.
I was less certain. And what I had was I knew that succession was a major part. Well, almost never went well in the church. Number two, I knew that I had a very narrow window to do a good [00:16:00] job at succession because I had a leader who could lead the church. And if I didn't act now, that leader would probably be gone.
Third. I also was starting to feel in me some. Inclination that I'm not as passionate about this as I was a decade ago. And that was a warning sign. I thought I could probably do it for another five years and get away with it. But I also saw a lot of leaders in their fifties kind of enter this period of Malays.
Right. Were just nothing. They weren't excited about anything anymore. I'm like, oh, I wonder if I have some of those stirrings inside me right now. And then I thought we were positioned to do the succession. So. I approached the elders and my potential successor who actually became my successor. And then a bunch of us prayed about it for three months.
And, you know, I, I, the elders prayed about it. I prayed about it. Jeff, my successor prayed about it. Tony prayed about. I had a handful of people that I was texting, [00:17:00] talking to regularly who are not part of our, our day-to-day community, who were praying about it as well. And at the end of it, I was like 90%, certain, it was time to make the leap, but I didn't know.
And there was one day if you're looking for like prompting or that kind of thing, where I went on a bike ride. Cause that's how I often process things. And. I was like, gosh, you know, once you stepped down, you can't go back the next day and say, Hey, can I have my old job back? Like, Hey Jeff, give me my office back.
You can't do that. Right. Like right now I hold the power right now. I could say before I, you know, push the button. I could just go back to the elders and say, you know, that was a really bad idea. I want to be the lead pastor. And I'm pretty sure everybody would have said, okay. But I'm like, you know, once I, once I pushed that button, there's no going back.
So should I push the button or not? Should I leave or should I not driving, riding my bike? And I pass a building. We built 15 years [00:18:00] earlier when I was part of the Presbyterian church. And I felt like God said, when you left law, do you regret that? I'm like, Then I pass the building and I felt like God said, when you left your denomination, do you regret that?
I'm like, Nope. And he goes, then you're not going to regret this trust. Now that was subjective. That was a prompting. Pretty much everybody else in our inner circle of discernment was saying, yeah, you should go now. But I was also hearing people who were like, you're way too young. You're only 50. Oh my goodness.
The church is growing double digits. What are you doing? That's stupid. But I felt like it was right. So I went and wisdom is proved right by all of her children. Six years later. Totally. It looks like the right decision. So fast forward to three years later, I was still teaching at our church. But it wasn't taking a lot of my time and.
You know, after you've led something for 20 years, you're tired. I wasn't like burnout tired, but I was just like, oh, it's so [00:19:00] nice not to be leading the church day to day. It's so nice to have a different set of problems, you know? And I was experiencing enjoying a lot of the freedom, but I really felt like God said, okay, that was a nice little sojourn.
Like let's, let's go back into this as a calling. And that was, that was a hard decision because even financially for Tony and me, You know, if I commit to a payroll and grow this and increase the staff and make this a thing, like that could be an impingement for us, but we prayed about it and we're like, okay, no, we're going to do this with the next season of our life.
And two years, three years on the other side of that decision, I'm so glad we did. And I love it. I love leading the team. I love doing this and, you know, God has shown himself more than.
Tony: It sounds like you have a really incredible intimacy with God. And one of the things that we love that talk around around here is his daily disciplines.
We say that if, if you aren't dedicated to your disciplines, you'll be destroyed by your [00:20:00] distractions. And so I'm really curious, what are some of the daily disciplines that you do to keep that intimacy fresh in your relationship with.
Carey: Well, it starts out in the morning. So I get up pretty early and I'll spend that first hour, hour and a half with God.
I don't want to make it more spiritual sound more spiritual than it is, but I'm reading through like, sometimes I'm very distracted sometimes. I'm yeah, very distracted, but I'll, I'll, I'll do, I'll do the Bible in a year. So I've done that for the better part of 25 years now. And so I'll read through an old Testament, new Testament, Proverbs, you know, som that kind of thing in the morning.
And then I'll spend some time praying and reflecting sometimes journaling and then. You know, after that, I will sometimes just read widely like on anything from the metaverse to something that caught my eye to the news and just kind of process that and then move into the [00:21:00] day. So that's a discipline another discipline.
Believe it or not. That is huge for me asleep. I did burn out 20 years ago or 15 years ago. Deficits where a huge part of that. So I try to get eight hours of sleep every night and I feel so much better for it. The sound's pretty basic, but exercise. So in the summers I cycle in the winter as I run and I'm getting back into running season now.
So I'm enjoying that. And and then healthy relationships like. Who are the people in our life that we're closest to because I have the privilege of serving millions of leaders, but I don't, I don't know them from Adam. So really close friendships, people that, you know, my family, my friends keep them close, get together, nurture those relationships that if those are, are healthy and then not letting my schedule get overburdened I realized I'm really a 15 meeting a week person.
That's about my capacity. That's it. If I spend more times in meetings in that a week, [00:22:00] I get really tired. If I spend less than 10 meetings a week, then I get bored. So somewhere in that 10 to 15 range is a pretty good range for me. And when I have 15 commitments in a week, my weeks fall, it doesn't matter.
So what that means is that might be 15 out of 40 hours. So you got, whoa, you have 25, like open hours in the week. Yeah, but that's where I do my content. That's where I, you know, little fires show up. So you try to fight them then. And if I do a lot more than that, then I become.
Tony: Person. Hey guys, just pausing this conversation with Carrie to let you know that now is the time to go ahead and sign up for the spirit and truth conference.
If you've listened to his podcast for any amount of time, you know that we're a part of the spirit and truth podcast network and March 17th through the 19th in Dayton, Ohio, we are having a huge conference. It's going to feel more like a revival, a camp meeting, an opportunity to fill your. At Stillwater church, March 17th through the 19th.
Now [00:23:00] is the time to register, go to spirit and truth.life to register today. And when you register, put in the podcast, promo code reclamation for $20. A little gift from us to you. I can't wait to see you there. I'll be hosting that weekend. And I know it's going to be a life giving event for the leaders who are present.
Now let's continue our conversation with Carrie. I mean, this is a great transition to your latest resource at your best. And as this podcast releases, it's the first of the year. I know a lot of people are looking at, you know, new habits, new routines, new disciplines. But I kind of want to start with a theology behind it because this book is what I would call sneaky Jesus.
Right? It's it's not overtly Hey, this is your faith, but it it's clearly based in like, this is kind of how we get to our best. So let me start with, why does our best matter to God?
Carey: Well, yeah, you're right. There's no scripture in the book. So now you're [00:24:00] making me think, which is good. And that was intentional.
It was, it was a Trojan horse. So good on you for noticing that move got Seth Goden and Adam Grant on the front cover and pat Lencioni on the back because I want business leaders to read it and maybe it's a front door. But yeah, I mean, Couple of reasons. Number one, I believe God is good. Number two, the old Testament and new seems to be bringing God our best, not our worst.
Right? That's the whole old Testament sacrifice model. It would be tempting if you have 10 sheep to say, well, this week one, that's probably not going to make it to February. We'll just sacrifice it. Cause it's going to die anyway. And God's like, no, no, no, you get to keep that one. I want you to bring me your best, like the choice one.
Okay. And yeah, there's a, there's a sacrifice in that, but, but on a very practical level, I would just say, you know, I want to, I want to be the best dad I can be for my kids. And even though they're grown now and the best husband for my, my wife and. You know, I'm a [00:25:00] boss and I got 18 members who depend on me and I don't want to give them my leftovers.
And, you know, Jesus from a new Testament perspective, brought in a semi realized eschatology, what does that mean? Big words. It means that the kingdom of heaven is then, but it's also, now it means the kingdom of heaven is near it's nearer than you think. And so there are elements of it. It's not like burn the earth and one day God will bring a new one.
It's like, no, You know, there is a sense of the very near-miss of God right now in the presence of God. And Jesus said he came to bring life and life to the full, and most of us are living our lives drained. So there's a disconnect there, and I believe there's a fullness that will come only from heaven, but you know, if Jesus, if Jesus wants us to have life and life to the full, then what does that actually mean?
So Pence.
Tony: Yeah, I was, as I was reading it, I was thinking to myself that this is [00:26:00] work as worship. You, you know, this is life as worship. This is being a father and a husband as worship. And it felt like the next natural step for me. So I took your Your course on, on high capacity leaders. And we talked about block scheduling, right.
And block scheduling was revolutionary for me. And if anyone who's listened to the podcast has heard me talk about block scheduling before, because I'm a block scheduling evangelist, but this takes it one step further when you're block scheduling with your zones. I'm wondering if you could kind of talk about how that was a natural progression and, and kind of what the zones.
Carey: Well, the high impact leader, which is the course that you took was the beta for what became at your best. And having taught that course for four years and seeing thousands of leaders go through it. My own journey got a little bit bigger and deeper. And then, you know, I heard from thousands of leaders who were saying, Hey, This is really helpful for these reasons.
So[00:27:00] what I did was, was added zones. Just try to make it memorable. And it's been encouraging to hear how memorable this seems to be. But if you look at, you know, the fact that we have 24 equal hour or 24 equal hours in the day, All of us intuitively know that those hours are not, they don't feel equal.
They don't produce equal. So they're equal in time, but they're not equal in impact. Try to have a conversation with your wife at noon is different than having one at midnight, probably at midnight, there's some kind of crisis going on or there's a baby awake, or, you know, you can't sleep or there's a thunderstorm or something and your energy waxes and wanes over the course of the day.
So what research is increasingly showing. And what I figured out before I did the research is I've only got three to five peak hours in a day. And we all like to pretend that we're robots. We all want to say no, you know, I can go 18 hours a day and look at how strong I am and no. No. I got about even as a writer, as somebody who, who does my best and gets eight hours of [00:28:00] sleep and exercises three to five super productive hours in a day.
And those are just human limits. Cal Newport says we have about four other brain scientists would, would put the range into three to five and. On the one hand that's really dismal Tony. It's like, are you kidding me? I don't get more than that, but I think we all know that's true. So would you say, are you a morning person or like afternoon, night owl?
Tony: I'm definitely a morning person. I'm a definitely morning, 4 45, 4 30 kind of guy.
Carey: And what would you say your peak hours are when you're really like up and humming and.
Tony: Eight to 11.
Carey: Eight to 11. So there it is three hours.
Tony: And then now I have the advantage of, I clocked it out already. I took my energy clock. You did. I did the homework and I'm my red zone is between one in three is, is a D I need to take a nap that, that can turn my red zone into a yellow zone for [00:29:00] me. If I can get a nap in there.
Carey: See, this is interesting. Okay. So as I've done more and more interviews, the book is barely out. It's been out a couple of months, but I've done lots and lots of podcast interviews.
And I love asking the people who were interviewing me, what their red zone is. Mine is four to six. But most people, if they're really honest, like after lunch is not a good song, it's like, oh my God, it's not because you went for the heavy pastor or something like that. It's just like, no, I could eat salad nuts.
And I still get tired in the afternoon. And that means. So all of us have a green zone green zones. When you're at your best, yours is eight to 11. Mine's about seven to 10, seven to 11, similar thing, three to five hours. You have a red zone where you're tired, minus four to six. That's where it's like three brain cells left.
I can't make any decisions, a better caffeinate or get a nap or something, or go for a walk. And then everything else is yellow. Everything else is just, you're not at your best. You're not at your worst. And [00:30:00] what. First of all, knowing that is a help, because then you're like, oh, I better not schedule important decisions for 2:00 PM or.
Really critical, like review all the financials and make recommendations. Probably not a good idea. Two o'clock in the afternoon for me, four 30, right? Like I gotta be at ground level work by four 30 or it's not going to be good or it's not going to happen. But what the mistake people do is they don't realize number one, they only have three to five good hours a day.
And then number two, they spend them indiscriminate. So textbook example, I used to do a ton of breakfast meetings and you know how breakfast meetings go? You meet at the restaurant at seven. Think you're going to be out of there at eight. You're not out of there until eight 30. Then you go to a coffee shop, grab a coffee, go to the office.
Everybody wants to talk to you. You're finally at your desk at 10 it's like, oh, that was a late start. You still got a sermon to write or whatever you're working on. And then you notice, oh, I got five texts and 28 emails. Okay. Better do that. [00:31:00] Texts, texts, email, email, email. It's 1130. Your stomach's grumbling.
I guess I'll go for lunch. Get back a one. And somebody pulls you into a meeting. Hey Tony, can we pick your brain? Right. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Then you got more texts, more emails. Then somebody pulls you into another meeting. Then it's four 30. What have you got done that day? Nothing. Your sermon is unwritten.
Nothing's done. So then what do you do you either try again the next day and usually the same pattern repeats or you do what most people do you take? And then it's eight 30 at night. You're watching Netflix with your family. You're falling asleep on the couch and you're trying to write your message and then it's Saturday and your message still isn't done.
And then you just do that week after week, getting back to your burnout point. Yeah. People are sick of that. They're absolutely tired of it and they're, they're drained. And I used to live that way until I burned out. And then on the other side started paying attention to time, energy and priorities. So the secret there, how does this relate to green, yellow?
Figure out when you're at your best and then do the [00:32:00] stuff that's most important, the stuff that you are best at when you were at your best. So for me, that sermon writing or these days book writing or podcast prep or whatever I happen to be doing that day, like this morning in my green zone, before I jumped on a whole bunch of interviews in my yellow zone today, I.
I, you know, I'm tomorrow I'm, I'm, I'm interviewing a Facebook executive and metaverse pastor and a Harvard professor. So I finished up my research on all three fronts formulated the questions, cause that takes a lot of horsepower and I will do the interviews tomorrow when I'm in my yellow zone, because if I'm prepared well and the metaphors verse stuff I've been reading on.
And web three and crypto and blockchain and all that. I want to be ready. So I've, I've spent a lot of my green zone over the last month. Preparing for this. Now, tomorrow, I'll be.
Tony: Yeah. One of the things you talk about in the book is this idea about cutting [00:33:00] out the distractions in your green zone. I think that the distractions are, they happen so quickly and they're so sneaky and you don't even know that you're distracted until all of a sudden.
It's been an hour. What are some of the tips, tools or tricks that you give to people when you talk about eliminating distractions from your best work time?
Carey: So I'm not naturally good at this. I love distractions because I mean, basically. They're fun. So a discipline that I developed years ago long before it was popular, talked about was just turn off all notifications on your phone.
So when you get a new iPhone, your computer, whatever, your, your iPad, you can take five minutes and do this today. Just go into your settings, turn off all notifications. Now people get panicked about that because of FOMO, right? It's like, well, what if I don't hear from my son? Or what if I don't the problem with correspondence digital?
That's true, actually. Well, no, [00:34:00] it's not true. Think about how the post office works. Post office works that way. If it works, if it works, here's how it works.
Tony: Saying I was going to say it, but I didn't want to interrupt.
Carey: If it works once a day, a letter carrier shows up at your house or your office and says here, Tony, here's all the mail.
Now they don't even ring your door. I didn't ring your doorbell. If you live where I do in the middle of nowhere, I have a like a, a post office box or what do you, what did we say? A mailbox at the end of my driveway? I don't have to go to it until whenever I want. I could go to Morrow. The mail is still going to be there.
I select the male when I want to get the mail. Now, electronic communication doesn't work that way. When you text me, I get it immediately. I assume it's urgent. It's not, if your letter carrier, if your post office person rang your doorbell every time you had a bill or anything left in snail mail, you'd be like, get off my porch.
I'm getting a restraining order. Like you've, you've rang this bell [00:35:00] 17 times today, even ups and Amazon, they don't ring the bell anymore. They just going to leave it on your porch unless you tell them otherwise. Why? Because. You know, we get a lot of stuff shipped to our house, but it would be horribly interrupting to have that doorbell ring 17 times a day.
And you know, I get a lot of books cause I do a podcast. I don't ask for those books. They just come to my house. If they're ringing my doorbell 17 times a day, I would get a restraining order. So what we won't allow in real life, we allow. Digitally. And so somebody liked your Instagram posts. Somebody emailed you, somebody, a message you on LinkedIn.
Somebody sent you a Facebook note, you know, comment, and you know what, shut it all off. You don't need to know when I'm done this interview. I can look at my phone and figure out who texted me. And I allow a few people to ring through just my family and a few key team members. And how many times is the phone rung during the.
Zero. Everybody else goes direct to voice. [00:36:00] Why cause I can get the voicemail in an hour or a half hour when we're finished. And if I don't want to get it then, and I want to go for a cup of coffee, I'll get it at four o'clock this afternoon. But we live with this false urgency and we're terrified of, of, you know, not getting information at the right time.
If it's really an emergency, the police are going to knock at the door and they're going to tell me that something happened. Okay. That doesn't happen very much in my life. Yeah. You know, I'm sure we've all been in a place where we've gone off the grid for the day because you don't, you're not in range.
You don't have internet. What happened while you were away? Nothing. Well, why don't you just live every day that way. And so, you know, I, I zone off my green zones and then I can go and respond to all that stuff at 11. Yeah. When I still got some energy, but it didn't bother me. If it was a really a nuclear emergency.
My staff knows that they can call me and it will ring through and they never do because it's never a nuclear emergency. [00:37:00]
Tony: I love that I have a little bit of a rabbit trail, just because I'm super curious about it. You're you're talking to the Facebook guy tomorrow about the metaverse. Have you thought any about notifications in the metaverse and what this will do to our attention span?
Carey: No idea. I have read for days, if not hours, if not days on the metaverse and listened to many podcasts, I still can't come up with a good definition and we might be 20 years out from a true metaverse. But yeah, it's this whole idea that it's your avatar and a virtual world and virtual. Currency. I'm not even saying it.
Right.
Tony: So somebody sent me a text today about selling land or buying land and the value of that land on the metaverse and the price. I mean, it was just a wild, wild, and I was like, It was somebody I knew it was a group of guys who I'm in, I'm in a discipleship group with, and they're talking about Bitcoin and they're talking [00:38:00] about investments and they're all entrepreneurs.
And, you know, I love them to death and now none of them are going to do it. Right. But it was always like, well, this is super interesting. Can you buy space in the metaverse and its way? I was like, listen guys. A podcast to record today. I've got things I got to ride. I have no space for this.
Carey: It's a great question.
Right? I've I've been thinking about getting into crypto for about seven years and the right time to have gotten into crypto is about seven years ago, but I, you know, it's challenging. Yeah.
Tony: So I am curious I love I'm friends with Ryan Hawk. Who's been on your podcast and I was in a leadership circle with him for a year and got to know him pretty well.
I'm one of the, one of the, the great things that I stole from him is making sure to pay attention to people's dedication pages. And you dedicated this book. To your grandparents and I may say the name wrong Garrett and Gretta nap, because [00:39:00] they gave you all the time in the world. For me, it felt like an emotional moment in the dedication.
I'm wondering if you could just share just a little bit about your thought when you were in.
Carey: My grandparents were Dutch immigrants. They came from Holland in the 1950s. I was born in the sixties and they were our next door neighbors for the first 10 years of my life. And they were basically my second parents.
And I guess my grandmother had a job at one point, but she never seemed like she had a job because whenever we were back after school or whatever, she just had all the time in the world for us and was never. You know, she was cooking dinner or whatever, but always had time. Well, my grandfather came home from work.
We're just, they're just always there. And they reminded me of how I wished I had raised how I wished I had been when my kids were younger, but I was distracted and I was busy and I was on my devices too [00:40:00] often. And as I was writing the book. Because I did think about who did they dedicate it to just my grandparents.
You know, I sat with a great deal of affection, but they just never seemed in a rush. They never seemed hurried. And you know, they were born over a hundred years ago. They're gone now, but that was really special. And I hope we can, through the tools I share in at your best recaptured, that kind of lingering timelessness.
Even in a hyper digital era we need it. We're humans, our souls are thirsty and we miss each other.
Tony: As I read it, I thought to myself, I wonder if this is a vision statement for the next season of Carrie's life.
Carey: I want it to be you know, my sons are flying in, we're in California right now, as I'm recording this, they're flying in on the weekend on Friday and Saturday with their girlfriends.
And we're going to spend some unhurried [00:41:00] time together in the desert at the ocean. And, you know, with my wife, like somebody, I, I gotta, I gotta track this down, but it was such a great quote that what our relationship. But the sum of our conversations. And I think that's why conversation really matters.
And, you know, conversation is a lost art. I think confession is a lost art and that idea that we can just be together and share experiences and yeah. You know, There's a lot going on in my life right now, we get the privilege of serving millions of liters a year. But the reason I have something perhaps to say to millions of liters a year is because I'm not running around at 150 miles an hour with my hair on fire anymore.
Tony: Amen. Amen. That's so good. I, I have one more question [00:42:00] for you, but before I get into that, I know my listeners are gonna want to connect with you all over the interwebs. Where is the best place to pick up their copy of at your best, and to follow you and to make sure they subscribe to your blog because you're putting out great content usually four to five times a week, and it's always very thoughtful, very.
I would say short or brief, I don't want to say short, like in a negative way.
Carey: But no, but that's intentional. You're busy. Yeah.
Tony: Yeah. So where's the best place to, to find all things, carry new Hoff on the.
Carey: So all things carry. You can definitely find it at Carey Nieuw, hof.com, hard to spell, but you can figure that out.
If you come close, it will you'll find it. And then for the book, the book has its own site. With some resources you can go to@yourbesttoday.com. So don't forget that today@yourbesttoday.com and then you know, the books widely available anywhere you get.
Tony: And we'll of course, link to all that in the show notes.
And if anyone has any questions about the book or wants to talk to me, feel free [00:43:00] to email me and hit me up. I'm more than happy to share my thoughts and how I've implemented in my life. Cause it's, it's been a huge, huge blessing for me.
Carey: Well, thank you. That's been one of the great joys. I mean, I'm glad to know.
I know you were a high-impact leader alumni, so you got the beta version and now the, the book definitely is an upgrade from where we were when we. Produce the course, but like even John Tyson has been very public that it's the best productivity hack he's he's seen. And he feels like he's a different preacher.
Now that he's moved, protected as green zone doing his writing there, like that, that ability to be able to contribute maybe in some small way to the kingdom and the success of other leaders is extremely gratifying. And I'm very thankful.
Tony: So the last question I always love to ask people is an advice question.
And I'm going to ask you to give yourself one piece of advice, except I get to name the exact date and time, not time but date. And so what I'd like to [00:44:00] do is I'd like to ask you to go back and give a younger version of Carrie advice the day after you pumped. Episode number one with Andy Stanley. If you could go back and, and give that younger version of yourself, one piece of advice, what would it be?
Carey: Talk less, listen more. Hmm.
Tony: Wow. Carrie, this has been so good for me. I am so grateful for the time today and for your impact on my life, and really appreciate you being generous with your time and, and coming on the podcast.
Carey: Tony, thanks for having me. It's a joy to reconnect with you. Thank you for all you're doing to help leaders.
This is a big season of change in your life. So I really appreciate you having me and thank you for all that you do.
Tony: Man. That was good. I love talking to Kerry new Hoff and I enjoy his content so [00:45:00] much. Do me a favor, go ahead and hit him up. Make sure you follow his podcast. The Kerry new Hoff leadership podcast, anywhere you listen to podcasts.
He's got so much stuff that he's putting out on a weekly basis. I know that you'll be fed. And following him, some of the things I love from our conversation today talking about burnout as an epidemic, the great resignation, it's more than just a time management strategy. So many things there that I know I'll be continuing to carry on and kind of to on in my own life.
Because like many of you, I don't have this all figured out. I'm just trying to do the best I can every single day. And again, that's what this podcast is all about. Helping people who know. Follow Christ more closely to reclaim good practices for faith in life. And this was a definitely a practice rich conversation.
So I'm thankful for you and for being a part of this journey with me, like I said before, do me a favor, hit that subscribe button anywhere you listen to podcasts, leave a rating or [00:46:00] review on iTunes or Spotify. And do me a favor, share this episode with. It's the best way to get the word out about what God is doing on this platform.
And remember guys, if you want to follow Jesus, you must be willing to move.
