#246: Dusty Sturk: Kingdom Calibrate
Dusty is a worship leader, pastor, and a dear friend in ministry!
We talk about what it means to build the Kingdom, create an intentional community, and why getting uncomfortable matters.
Links:
https://www.kingdomcalibrate.com/
EP. 246
Tony: [00:00:00] Hey everybody. Welcome back to the Reclamation Podcast, where're. Our goal is to help you reclaim good practices for following Jesus. Today is episode 246, and I have the very distinct. Privilege and honor of introducing you guys to one of my teammates. One of the guys that I work with at the church is this amazing leader in the kingdom.
His name is Dusty Stark, and he cares deeply and passionately about helping you reclaim good practices to following Jesus through worship. He's got a brand new ministry called Kingdom Calibrate, and what he's doing for the kingdom, I think is exactly what we need. You're gonna love is this conversation.
Today we talk about what it means to live an intentional community. We talk about dying to self and what it means to move further in our expression of worship. Such a life giving and great [00:01:00] conversation. I know you're gonna love it. Do me a favor, guys, if you do love it, hit that subscribe button anywhere you listen to podcasts.
Leave us a review on,
Tony: on iTunes. And I, I, you know, anytime you share the episode, I just am so appreciative. So share this episode, tag me, tag Dusty, let us know what you think. We'd love to get your feedback. I'm thankful for each and every one of you in the way that's God. in us and through us and just with all the people doing all the things.
So let, without any further ado, let's jump into our conversation with Dusty Stark. Dusty, thank you so much for agreeing to be on the podcast today. Really appreciate having you on.
Dusty: Yeah, man. Thanks for having me. I'm really excited to talk about whatever it is that we wanna talk about.
Tony: Well, I should, I should give this disclaimer first dusty and I serve on the same team at Centerville Grace, this beautiful church in Centerville, Ohio.
And dusty, how, how long have you been on the team?
Dusty: So I started, I, I was informally on [00:02:00] the team, not on the team, but I started working with the church in. Actually through Kingdom Calibrate and I think I went officially on staff starting in like February. So only a little over a month and almost a month and a half now.
Tony: Yeah. And I actually, I just officially came on the staff at the church and we're, we both served there in in limited capacities with in doing other ministries as well. But I, I was there probably a month before. You were, maybe two months before you were, I think I got there in September. You got there kind of with Kingdom Calibrate in November.
So I appreciate you coming on so that I'm not the new guy anymore.
Dusty: Absolutely man, at this rate, we're gonna have another new person in another month and a half. So , well,
Tony: the Lord's moving in crazy ways. I I absolutely love it. You know, one of the questions that I love to ask people kind of from a the 30,000 viewpoint perspective is, is how would you define the calling that God has placed on your life?
You've done a lot of different things from worship leading to, you've got a, a master's in [00:03:00] theological education. I mean, you've done a lot. How,
Dusty: what's your. . Yeah, man, that's a hard question to answer. I feel like my calling has been more and more just to learn to die to myself. Like if I put it at the basis level, it's to die to myself and to, you know, kind of, you know, kill my own desires that come from a place of, you know, ego and selfishness and, you know, even stepping into ministry for the first time when I started that, like, you know, 15, 16 years ago, however long that was.
Was a call in my life against everything I wanted to do because there was not a piece of me that thought that going into ministry sounded like a fun vocation, you know? Or even a fun calling. And you know, like people say, like that's how you know it's a calling and not just something you desire to do.
Because I had, I honestly had no desire to do it whatsoever. It's like serving people is not the way that my mind is wired. Being around people and community is not the way I'm wired. So everything about my calling has been an exercise and dying to myself. .
Tony: [00:04:00] Well, let, let's drive, dive down on that a little bit because I think that there's a lot of people listening right now who are like, okay, pastor Dusty, I hear what you're saying, die to myself.
But what does that look like on a random Friday in suburban
Dusty: Ohio? Oh my gosh. To be honest, man, it like, for us, it really looks like. Probably having people over when I would much rather just have a night to myself and, you know mm-hmm. , I don't wanna mean that that's like ministry martyrdom or anything like that, but it's, you know, there, there's callings in our life that God gives us that goes very much against what we would rather do.
And I think we find the same thing in our marriages. We find the same thing in how we raise families. Where it's like the right thing is typically not the thing that I feel like doing in the moment. So, you know, learning how to live sacrificial. With understanding that God wants his best for me and I need to submit to that is, is a hard thing because my Friday night would be like, man, I'm gonna go downstairs.
I'm gonna just, you know, not be around people. I need to recharge my batteries cuz I'm seriously an introvert at the core. And instead, we typically spend a lot of Fridays like there's, there's hardly a night where we don't have [00:05:00] people around us because we have learned to really live into this community mindset because God calls us to be around people and to pour into others instead of just pouring into ourselves all the.
So there's probably people at our house almost any given Friday night. That's almost what our life looks like consistently now. And it's been, it is been a huge blessing because I've learned a ton in giving up my own desires for the sake of something that's better and healthier for me. And I've seen spiritual development come out of that.
Y you and
Tony: Nicole, your wife, are probably two of the most inviting hospitality driven people I've ever met. Although, if I can be honest, she seems like much more the extrovert than you. How, how do you guys live in that tension? W what's the, what's the right way to think about, you know, marriage as you know, that ministry, that a hundred hundred percent ministry, you know, we're, we're both gonna go all in, but, but obviously you guys have way different skillset.
Dusty: Yeah, we do. And it's funny, you know, we're, we're real into the Enneagram and we actually teach Enneagram workshops here around Dayton occasionally. And when [00:06:00] we got into it, we realized something that was kind of terrifying. There was a a guy who is a Franciscan. I, I don't know if he's still a Franciscan priest or whatever he is at this point, but he's also a professor you know, Richard Roar.
And he, you know, wrote all this curriculum on the Enneagram and all. He has just these deep insights, and when I found. It wasn't even a podcast. It was a series of lectures that he was doing online that he posted on YouTube. And I'm listening to my number. I'm a five wing four. My wife is a two wing three.
And, you know, not to go too foreign and typecasting, cuz that's never a good thing. But like we found out, we're double opposites, which means we could not be more opposite in every which way. So like, the things that give me energy, suck her energy and vice versa. The things that give her. Absolutely, you know, kill me deep down inside sometimes
So you know, it's, it's a lot of sacrifice back and forth where it's like, Hey, you know, we do have a night this week. I, and I'll say, Hey, I need to find some balance. I need to recharge my batteries. I know we want to, you know, your desires to be around people and to bring some community around. And we just have those conversations really openly at this point, you know, we've got a very open [00:07:00] communicative relationship where we can just be really honest, like, Hey, do we wanna do this tonight?
Or do you need some time? It's like, Hey, I need some time. And same thing with her. It's like, Hey, do you wanna have people over? I don't necessarily feel like it, but I'm ready. Let's go if you want, if you want that, and you need that because you've been isolated for a while. So the, the conversations kind of start like that.
Do you find
Tony: that y your kids tend to lean one way or the other when it comes to that? I mean, obviously you've raised your kids now in community for, since they were born. I would, I would guess, right? Like I, I've known you for six, seven months, but it seems. You said there's always people over there. Do your kids like, Hey, why isn't anyone coming over tonight?
Or are who's coming over tonight? Is it the, as you know, how's that work?
Dusty: Yeah. Well, I noticed Declan our oldest, you know, and, and he's six and a half and he is constantly asking for people to come over. I think he is the best balance of the two of us, where our joke in our household is like, he got my mind and he got Nicole's social.
And the two of those together is a dangerous game because, you know, he's, [00:08:00] he's intelligent, he's always trying to learn things, but at the same time, he constantly wants to be around people and it's like, oh, we created a literal monster. Like I don't know what to do with this. Cuz it's overwhelming for both of us.
Because it's, it's the perfect combination of the two of our superpowers combined. . But he is always asking for people to come over. He always wants to be around his friends. And we've developed some really neat relationships, even within our own you know, little community here where we live. So there's typically always somebody over or just kids randomly ringing the doorbell.
That's a new phase of life for me. If, for anybody that lives in the suburbs is the kids coming up bringing the doorbells. Like, Hey, you know, is Declan here? Can he come out and play? It's like, okay, that's fine. Yeah. Yeah.
Tony: At this point I almost tell them to stop ringing the doorbell and just come in.
Just come in. We know that you're gonna be here anyway. Like, it's fine. It's whatever. It's good. Where, where did this deep sense of community, where was this born out of for you guys? I mean, like what, what's kind of the origin story of, of the idea that community is such an important thing?
Dusty: Yeah. Probably the [00:09:00] best origin story was about three churches ago.
We started leading a young adult small group. And, you know, interestingly enough, like all, all the churches that we've served in, that I've served in have all been the Dayton area, which is its own fun, unique weird story. But when we were there, we started developing this young adult small group, and we found really quickly that what that age group in particular was desperate for was community.
they just wanted to be together. And you know, we kind of crafted the night where it's like, Hey, every Sunday night we'll come over, we'll supply the food because everything is better with food. We'll do dinner together. And after that, we'll we used to do like, you know, movie nights. I think at the time, like, you know, the Walking Dead was a big thing.
So we'd like, Hey, we're gonna be walking dead night and we're gonna hang out and talk about it. And then like, we got to the point where kids wouldn't leave our house until like two or three o'clock in the morning. So very quickly it's like, Hey, I'm older than you guys, so I'm gonna go to. But by all means, lock the door on your way out.
You can stay as long as you want. I don't care. I'm just not gonna be down here with you at this point. So we, we kind of developed this sense of community and we ended up with like 30, 32 young adults just in that small group that was meeting in our house, which our house [00:10:00] was way too small to host that many people every week.
So it was, it was chaos, it was crowded, chaos. But we learned really quickly as we got to know them. Like that's how we got to know people was through that relational community. And that developed some really, Not just friendships but kind of mentorships cuz both of us really desire to pour into people.
That's probably our most common core piece of community that we find value in, is the ability to pour into others and to kind of mentor. And we always wanna find the people who are one stage of life behind us so we can say, Hey, we've gotten through this stage. It hasn't been too long, and let me help you, you know, pull you through it because you're dealing with a lot of things that we dealt with 10 years.
If
Tony: you were talking to somebody who was one stage behind you about developing intentional community, what are some of the steps that you would tell them? Like, Hey, do this. Don't do that. Forget about that. You know what, what's kind of the breakdown? .
Dusty: Yeah, I, I mean, we didn't do a whole lot with a lot of intention or plan in mind.
We kind of just let it build organically and relationally. But the biggest thing right off the bat was just, man, [00:11:00] be, be open and honest and transparent with people. The people you know around, you really want to know your struggles and they don't wanna know the stuff that you pretend not to struggle with.
And that right there builds relational credibility and also builds, you know, spiritual formation relationships. You know, when I can be really honest, say, Hey, here's what I struggle with for years and years. I see that you might be struggling with this right now. That unlocks something in people, that it's a very permission giving thing.
Mm-hmm. Where it's like, okay, the person that you know, I'm looking up to, or the person that you know is on staff in this role is, I mean, not just perfect, but incredibly far from perfect . And once people understand, it, it takes away that tension. It takes away that weirdness that sometimes people have around anybody that works in the church, you know, that where they feel like they have to edit, you know, everything they say.
And it's like, oh, is that okay? It's like, it's, it's fine. Listen, we'll, you know, God will take care of that later . But we have to learn to live in this way where our lives became an open, an open door to others, and we had to put some boundaries on. So, in the do not category, I'd say, you know, you need to figure out where your boundaries are gonna be because you can't live your whole life.
especially when you do you know, have a little bit larger family. If, if [00:12:00] that's where you end up down the road, you, you've gotta have some boundaries on like, Hey, we need nights to ourselves. And as much as I wanna say, man, we have an open door policy at our house. Like we've had people live with us for different seasons and that's fine.
We just have to put our own, you know, time constrictions on that. Because if you give all the time, you know too much of a good thing, what do they say? Too much of a good thing can turn into a bad thing. And all of a sudden you find yourself outta balance doing things that you feel like God's calling you to.
But at when it stops being healthy, you have no margin in your life anymore, and then you can't grow anymore spiritually yourself. I love
Tony: that idea. I think finding the right balance and finding the right boundaries. Do, do you think, and I'm just spitballing here, right? Do, do you think everybody is called to community in the Christian life?
What's kind of your theological stance on that? I, I know you're somebody who loves some good theology discussions.
Dusty: I am, I mean, I. You know, I think there's lots of different ways you can define community and how large, you know, how large of a group do you have to have to call it community [00:13:00] versus, you know, you just need somebody else.
You know, there's a deep relationship in your life. You know, I think at least two, right? You and somebody else at least is the, the baseline bottom definition of community. But, you know, when I read through acts and you know, read what the early church looked like, you know, like Acts two, I was, I think 42.
where it's talking about, you know, the people were living their lives together. They weren't just going to church together, they were living their lives together. And that's where I kind of center my theology around, because to me that's more important than going to church together. And, you know, my, my job is to, to serve, you know a lot on the weekends.
I have a role within that. That's a large role to play, but that's not the most important part of what we do. The most important part is for us to live our lives together. So if you live your life with anybody, take the local church outta the equation. What does it look like to live your life with people?
You're going to things together. You are eating meals together, you're hanging out together. You might be going to another kid's sporting event that's not your kid, but you wanna be there to support 'em because you know that that's what community support looks like. You know, just. Two nights ago we went to a play that was, you know some good friends of ours, some of our best [00:14:00] friends.
It was their daughter who was in the play. And it's like, yeah, like our kid's not in anything. Right now he's six and a half and he doesn't like anything except watching YouTube. We'll talk about my parenting skills later, but Amen. You know, it's like, we'll go there, we'll go there, support that, and like, you know, like, I wanna, I wanna cheer her on, like, you know, because we, we treat them like family because to us they are family.
Tony: So what have you learned about. in that intentional community? Like what, what has that been kind of this I mean, obviously there's a reason why you keep doing it cuz it's not easy, it's not cheap, it's messy. Right? And yet for some reason you keep coming back. So either A, you're a masochist and you just enjoy the pain of it.
Or B, God's clearly revealing something to you. I think it's probably B
Dusty: what's he. . Yeah. It's mostly b maybe with a tiny bit of a sprinkled in there, . You know, like for me, and this, this probably hits me more because of my personality, you know, like going back to that Enneagram five, it's like, I, I don't need people in my life, period.
Like, I'm the person who could go and live in the woods and be a hermit for the rest of my life. [00:15:00] And that actually sometimes sounds pretty good, right? Like, I, you know, I'm, I'm not the greatest at keeping up with friendships because it's not how I'm wired naturally. I just don't need people in my. So there's been this piece, we're going back to the diet to yourself thing, where it's like we are designed to have people in our lives.
So that's something that needs not to be corrected, but that's a place I need to grow. You know, I call it, that's my growing edge, is to always force myself, to find community and to make sure I lean into that because I know I am very weak in that area, right? Because I am just an isolationist at heart. You know, I think when Covid happened, , it was like number one.
It's like, man, I'm like, you know, we, we can't be around people for a while. And Nicole really struggled with that for a season. And deep in my head I'm like, okay, this is, this is my time to shine just with how I'm wired. It's like I don't need to be around people for a while. And you know, now we're not gonna be for six months and see how that goes.
Like, I was perfectly fine with that. Nicole struggled greatly because she's just wired very differently than I. And for her, she, her growing edge is, she needs to know how to take time to [00:16:00] herself and by herself because you spend so much time pouring into others that you never pour into yourself. And, you know, that's, that's the other dangerous edge of that same conversation.
But God has shown me that, you know, the Christian life is meant to be done within community, however we define it. You need people to be in your life, to call you out on healthy things, to give you accountability, to help build discipleship within each other. You know, to, like, I need people looking at my life and somebody who can be honest enough to say, Hey, this looks like this is outta balance.
And, you know, if I'm just by myself all the time, like nobody's gonna be able to call, to call those things out and I start making all my own rules. And that's, that's a dangerous place to be, right? So I just know that I need people in my life period for every single reason. And sometimes the most sometimes when I really don't want to.
That's the time I really need people in my life in that season. Yeah. I love that.
Tony: You mentioned Covid and y you're a very talented musician. A lot of your ministry happens on the [00:17:00] platform. What was it like for you as someone who went from a very large church in terms of like, Full crowds every Sunday.
You know, prior to coming on, on staff at Centerville Grace, you were in a much larger community. You went through Covid in that community. Talk. Talk to me a little about that experience and what it was like for you to kind of go from you know, leading people to this sacred time with Christ in large community and then leading people to sacred time with Christ through
Dusty: cameras.
Yeah. That was a, that was a whole different world. I feel like when Covid hit, we were, every single week we were getting together with our staff team over Zoom and figuring out, okay, what the heck are we gonna do this week? Because at the time, you know, when co covid first happened, it was like literally week to week between governmental regulations that were coming, you know, for us out of Ohio through the governor's office, and then.
there was the national stuff as well, and trying to figure out, okay, you know, this week we can have a group of 20 people next week, we're not supposed to be in [00:18:00] person at all, and we're gonna be just cameras for three weeks straight and then we're gonna reevaluate. So every single week was a different challenge, right?
It was like, it was like doing a church plant where the church plant changes from week to week and you never know quite what you're doing. So, like to me, there, there was a lot of challenge in that. And I, I thrive on challenge. I like, you know, solving problems. So there's a piece of that that was kind of fun.
It's like, okay, this is gonna be a new week. We're out of the. You know that that's my time to thrive. But, you know, leading, leading worship over the internet, like we were in calls just like this and I'm trying to plug my guitar in and we had everybody in the church kinda logged into this giant Zoom call and it's like, all right, we're gonna try like having a camera at somebody's house over here.
And then, you know, I've got somebody else calling me on my phone. It's like, Hey, we're gonna go to you at your house here in a little bit. And it was a giant disaster, but it was super fun. But the concept of leading worship to a computer, was, was really strange because it really feels like it's just you and God in that moment.
You know, you don't have. , you know, even the energy of people singing back to you and like, you know, you don't, there's something different when you gather as a group when everybody's in the same room. You know, the, the feeling [00:19:00] shifts, right? The mood changes a little bit because there's this just communal energy and we all feel like we're part of the same team doing the same thing in the same space.
And, you know, spaces have a high theological value for me of just being in the same place at the same time. So it was, it was a very, almost intimate, but with a lot. Viewership at the same time, which is just, I don't know how to describe it. It was just a really weird feeling. It's like, for me, it felt very intimate.
But you know, knowing that a lot of people are kind of tuning in on our computers and it's like, all right, everybody's kind of worshiping at their house and we're still gonna try to build community out of it. But it's a very different version of community. And I remember the churches that, you know, the pastor would go up on the platform and they would just have a giant wall of zoom faces, you know, that was like the virtual yeah, sure.
Virtual congregation. And, and that's what it felt like for a long time. You know, it, it gave me a lot of intentional time to really think through why I do what I do. And you know, the question always is, man, when times get tough, are you still gonna be compelled to you know, do ministry? And in that, that season it was like, okay, yeah, I think we can do this.
It's gonna be challenging, but [00:20:00] we wanna press forward. And eventually things may go back to normal. Maybe they don't go back to normal. It. It was kind of this purifying experience in terms of intent. Hey guys, just pausing this
Tony: conversation with Dusty, to remind you that the Reclamation podcast is part of the Spirit and Truth podcast network.
This network has so many incredible shows on it, like the Firebrand podcast, the Spirit and Truth Podcast, and the SIS podcast. Plus some new ones coming later in 2023 to make sure that you follow all of our podcasts. Go to Spirit in truth.life spirit in truth.life, and get connected today. Yeah. I'm interested to get your opinion, if we can even zoom out a little further, because the work that you do with Kingdom Calibrate, you walk alongside.
Worship leaders, pastors, congregations. You're, you're very well connected with a lot of people who are in vocational ministry. W what, what have you noticed the fallout of covid being, I mean, obviously everyone knows about the pastoral [00:21:00] burnout, but like aside from that, what what have you noticed shifting and changing in the, I'm, I'm gonna say the Sunday morning landscape because of Covid.
Dusty: Yeah. You know, it's, it's a double-edged sword because on one side, you're, you're right, you do have, you did have a lot of burnout. You had a lot of people that quit ministry because once it got really difficult, it's like, man, this is not worth it and I'm gonna go do something, you know, normal. It doesn't require all of my emotional , you know?
Yeah. All my emotional sacrifice here. This is painful. I, a lot of churches got smaller after Covid. Now, not every church, I think you know, our church at the time actually started growing when we could gather back together and you know, grew through that whole time. But that was a little bit of an anomaly.
And I'm still not quite sure why that happened. But I think for most churches, like, Hey, we came back together and we've got, you know, maybe 50%, maybe 60% mm-hmm. of our congregation here. And, you know, the, the purifying edge to that was that there are a lot of people that attend church that just attend.[00:22:00]
and those are probably, you know, the first group of people that I think we saw kind of disappear or people that said, Hey, I can find, you know, I, I can watch a sermon at any church online. Here at my house, I can watch the best preacher, I can watch the best worship teams with these, you know, giant mega churches.
They have great broadcasts. Sure. And like, what do I need the local church for at this point? So that was kind of the first challenge, I think, for the local church to be positioned in a way that says, Hey, it's still valuable for us to be together. Because the reality is, even before Covid, you still had access to all that stuff.
But, you know, a lot of people were just going to church to go to church and when they didn't have to anymore, and there was no guilt associated with. It's like, Hey, I don't need to go back and probably there's not gonna be a lot of people checking in on me, so this is my time to kind of sneak away. And you know, I don't know what the long-term ramifications of that are gonna be.
I always pray for anybody that kind of stepped away from a church during that time to rediscover the value of being an intentional community with people, and whether that's in a local church building or whether that's, you know, a house, church, or even just a group of people that you get together with to do, you know, maybe a Bible study in some worship.
Like either. . [00:23:00] We, we need to learn the value of being together. And to me that was a fortifying experience because when we were able to come back together, it's like, oh, this is why we do what we do. You know? This is a beautiful feeling to be able to just, to be back in the same room, which is something you would absolutely take for granted before 2020.
Right? Yeah. I mean, it's not even something that cross your mind. So, but it, it creates a challenge for the church going forward when we're really trying. Propel the vision of what the local church is for and what the purpose of gathering together on a Saturday or Sunday actually is with all of us in the same physical location.
Now, this
Tony: is a, a perfect time to transition, to talk a little bit about this kind of God-sized dream that God has, has impressed upon you that you affectionately call Kingdom Calibrate. So it feels like Kingdom calibrate is kind of your response to that. I'm wondering two things. One where did the name come from and two what, what are your prayers and kind of your hopes and dreams that you feel like God is really pushing you on when it comes to [00:24:00] this brand new expression of ministry for you?
Dusty: Yeah, so the name Kingdom Calibrate. We, you know, my wife and I consider ourselves fairly, I don't know, we're, we're like, Denominational orphans, I guess is kind of what we always call it ourself. Cause you know, we've worked in a lot of different types of churches under different organizational structures and I think, you know, just, just going back through, back through my history, it's like I've worked in, you know, the Lutheran church.
I've worked to some degree in the Catholic church helping out with musical things. We've worked in the Presbyterian church, worked in the Nazarene church and the Baptist Church and you know, this Christian Missionary Alliance. And, you know, we started going down the list and it's like in every one of these churches we found people that were really tied into that particular denomin.
But, you know, we were never really there. We were always kind of, you know, migrating from one to the other. So when we tried to think of a name for this kind of non-denominational ministry, the, the word kingdom had to be in there because to me I, I grew a little bit tired and I'm still a little bit tired of people that put all of their [00:25:00] energy into their one particular expression of denomination that they.
Right, because to me this, this is just the way I'm wired. I don't want to talk about what is a, our particular denomination doing in the world. I'd rather talk about what is God's kingdom doing in the world. In all of our churches and denominations are different expressions of how God. Uses us to fulfill that kingdom.
So to me, the word kingdom had to be in there because we're all about just the kingdom mindset. I wanna know how all the churches fit together in this beautiful tapestry of, you know, how God is bringing his kingdom forth on earth. And every church plays a role within that. So I don't wanna minimize the value of that and say, you know, Hey, we don't have a reason to have all these.
I just wanna make sure that the priority is on the right piece. And to me, the priority is the kingdom. Our churches are expressions of the kingdom, and we all have a different viewpoint. So, you know, thing calibrate was just, it's, it kind of comes from my idea of leadership where I think that we've, you know, maybe strayed a little bit, and this is kind of the dreamer in me that's looking back and saying, ah, we've gotten away from what we were kind of called to do as, as I studied the life of Jesus, right?
There was a really good book called Jesus[00:26:00] on leadership, and I don't remember the author off the top of my head, but as I was reading through that and just studying the life of Jesus and how he led his disciples and how he started this movement, that changed the. , you know, Jesus led by serving. He came to serve and not to be served.
And that's a piece in scripture that has always really stuck with me. And as I've looked at kind of what we pursue in churches, you know, the dark side of churches is, you know, we kind of tend to pursue, you know, larger congregations. And we tried to pursue, Hey, I wanna work my way up the hierarchy. And for a long time I was that way.
It's like, man, if I can hop. This church of 200 to this church of 500 to this church of a thousand to this church of 2000. You know, eventually I'm gonna end up where I want to be, which is the biggest church possible to have the biggest platform, and we're gonna record music. And you know, like that's, that's the shadow side, right.
Of my own personality. Sure. And, and Jesus did not lead that way. That's, that's the very human side of how we run ministry as an organizational structure here on the earth. And, I want to go back to this idea of we lead by serving others because Jesus led by serving [00:27:00] others. So if we just go to serving people, what does that look like?
And to me, that's where the word calibrate came from, is we need to recalibrate to the original meaning of what it is to pastor, to serve and to be a part of what God is doing here on the earth. So that's how Kingdom Calibrate came to be. And we kind of just landed on that as. I've gotta remember the second question because that's my ADHD brain.
What was the second part of the question? ? The, no, that's good.
Tony: I sh I, you know, I have a real bad habit of what's called stacking questions we're asked to in a row, so I'm trying to get better at it. So thank you for asking in. Yeah. The second part of the question is, is the, the calling of the ministry itself.
So obviously you wanna be kingdom minded, you want to recalibrate leaders to be more like Jesus, but h how do you see this ministry serving? The greater.
Dusty: Big Sea Church. Yeah. And, and it does go back to that Jesus centered model of leadership where you know, we, we kind of do two, three things at Kingdom Calibrate.
We there's a coaching piece to it where, you know, I want to give encouragement to people who are in those [00:28:00] positions because in the worship ministry in particular, you know, it's a technical ministry here, it's all based around a technical skillset. And the danger of a technical skillset ministry is a lot of times you get people who are really good at the skillset, but may not have any kind of pastoral heart in mind.
It's like they can fulfill the. . And a lot of times, you know, as churches, if we're desperate to find somebody, we'll find somebody immediately who can fill that function. Mm-hmm. a lot of times, whether they have a pastoral heart or not. So what I find a lot in these technical skills-based ministries like worship is we'll find the person, but they don't, they have the skillset, but they might not have the right mindset, or they might not have the right heart behind it.
So that's a huge piece of what I actually wanna build with them is the heart. So I do a lot of coaching a lot of one-to-one Zoom calls, things like that where we can just talk together and say like, Hey, how are you running your ministry? I'm gonna help give you tools and give you support and encouragement behind that.
And like, here's what I have seen work, working in different churches and different expressions. We're gonna figure out how to make that work for your people. , but I want you to be able to not just build your own leadership, but to build other leaders around you so that way, you [00:29:00] know you're not gonna burn out within three years like a lot of them do.
right. So that's, that's a huge piece of it. But we kind of developed this curriculum that we call lead. And this is what we take people through and it's, you know, the L is for leadership development. The E is all about how to equip people through building healthy systems. A is activate, which is how do you actually incorporate these models on your worship team?
We do a lot of one-to-one meetings to figure that out. And vision casting strategies. For our worship teams. And then D is just the discipleship piece. And that's the huge piece of like, how do you actually make this work and develop spiritual formation on your teams in a way that people can grow in their own leadership skills.
So that's, that's kind of where we start when we start working with churches. Yeah. I love
Tony: that. I love that. I, I think that there are a lot of people who are listening right now who are in the churches on Sunday morning, and they see the worship team, and they see all these talented musicians, and they see all these people that can clearly sing and are, are, that look like [00:30:00] they're spirit filled and like they're just in it, you know, they're kind of, they're probably doing the one-handed.
Kind of way, you know, kind of move back and forth kind of swaying thing. They right there don't feel like, they don't feel like that's them. Right. I, I want you to talk to the guy who's an engineer who works at the Air Force base, who like, man, I love Jesus, but I don't get into worship like you guys do.
Do I fit? What kind of
Dusty: message would you give them? Yeah, yeah. You know, two sides to that. Number one, I'd say, man, however, you express your love to God, if your heart's there, that's the, that's what matters. At the end of the day, you know, we're not looking for an exercise in emotionalism or expression.
We're looking for a heart that's willing to pursue what God desires for them, and who's willing to just give up and sacrifice. You know, themselves to worship God, because that's what worship is. It requires a sacrifice of ourselves to approach God, because at that point, it's not about us. It's all about him.
So, you know, I get the mindset and like, you know, oddly enough, like I'm that same mindset. That is my default mindset. [00:31:00] You know, I'm that person that typically would walk in the back of a church, sit in the very back, pew in the corner so I can watch what's going on. And, you know, I'll, I'll sing along in my head and think, man, these are really good deep words.
But, you know, I'm not gonna raise a hand, or at least that's how I was a few years ago. So, you know, I, I've lived that life for a long time. And as I've learned what worship is in a more holistic way, I really have stuck onto this idea of sacrifice. So what's it look like for me to actually sacrifice my own comfort?
To glorify God. And you know, as as cliche as it is, and I know, you know, people talk about, I think you've even talked about it in one of your messages. It's like, if we're willing to go all out at a football game, which, you know, I get, it's exciting. There's a hundred thousand people there. Sure. And you know, alcohol may or may not play a role in some people's excitement and how expressive they are, but like, How, how willing are we to come to God and give God absolutely everything we have as opposed to just sit and observe?
Because that's, that's the piece. It's like, what does it look like for you to engage and for you engagement might just be standing there in a stoic way, but really engaging, you know, your mind on the lyrics that are being sung. But you know, I, I believe [00:32:00] there's always something more when it comes to what can I sacrifice in my own comfort?
To give God the glory that he is due. And usually that requires something that is a little harder for me than just saying, ah, this is just how I'm wired. The same thing we do when we typecast based on engram numbers. We say, that's just how I'm wired. And we kind of fall into that excuse, which is a little bit of a trap cuz that means there's nowhere for me to grow and I don't have to grow cuz that's just the way the good Lord made me right.
Tony: Oh, I think that's good. Do you got any advice on, on how to, how to grow a little bit or some intentional practices to help you grow? Is it, is it having people sit up front? Is it like getting around your crazy, charismatic friends? Is it, what, what is, you know, what's the, what's the right way to move from the back pew to full engage?
Dusty: Yeah. So I mean, the first place I start is like read through, like start by reading through the book of Psalms. Just if you wanna, if you want a good Bible exercise, start by doing that and really, you know, isolate in on how you know, how [00:33:00] David writes when he writes about his passion for God. And you know, even getting all the way into Psalm one 50.
where it talks about what, you know, what worship of God really looks like. I mean, it's, it's kind of this loud, it's, it's funny, it's this loud, boisterous thing in scripture, right? And, you know, we've gotten pretty far away from that in our churches where it's like we wanted to be this nice, quiet, controlled environment where, you know, no one's ever pushed too much outta their comfort zone.
And, you know, it's all the songs I really love to be sung and all the right ways. And the message only goes, you know, 22.5 minutes. That way I can get out and get on with my life. And you know, there, there's just a bigger sacrifice there. So like, the first place, I'll start with people. , try something. I don't care what it is.
Just do something that's outside of your natural comfort zone. So for like a stoic person like myself, it's like maybe it's just man, maybe it's just a little get the, get the sway right. You know, a little bit of sway. That's fine. Maybe it's just raise a hand. We do what's called the I think it was John AK when he wrote his book.
What stuff? You know, stuff Christians like, it's like, maybe it's the bread basket where you're just kind of holding two hands like this. Yeah. You know, it, it's all about like these, these sound really goofy, [00:34:00] but these are ways that we actually practice spiritual formation in our lives because we actively give up something which is our comfort, which is one of the things that we hold onto the.
We give those things up. And I believe when we give things up, doesn't matter what it is. It's all about the posture of sacrificing and giving up. And then I believe God can use that to help us fully engage. Not everybody's gonna be charismatic. I'm still not charismatic if I jump into a worship circle and you know, I'm still probably one of the most stoic people in there, even though that's my job on Sunday mornings, and I've had to learn how to, you know, become a little more expressive in that way.
So, because I wanna model that to our congregations and let them know, hey, it's okay. Even for me, a stoic introvert, like. . But there's, there's value in that. Yeah.
Tony: I do the move that I affectionately call the heartburn where I take my right hand and I put it over my heart and then I do the left hand in the air like somebody please save me.
Cuz I just ate that lasagna and I'm dying right now, ,
Dusty: and I'm not 20 years old anymore. That one hurts.
Tony: Okay. I, I have one more question to ask you, [00:35:00] but before I do, I know that people are going to get connected with you and with Kingdom ca where is the best place to learn
Dusty: all things Dusty. Yeah, so you can go to our website, www.kingdomcalibrate.com.
From there you can see the ministry models that we use. We're building active curriculum and we're getting ready to start our podcast as well. That will be built along with that curriculum. That you can email me, dusty kingdom calibrate.com. . And for any church that just is interested in exploring concepts, like, Hey, how do we start to build a healthy culture on our team?
How do we start to give, you know, our worship ministry some support from the outside because they've been, felt like they've been doing this thing alone for a long time. You know, reach out to me. I always do, you know, kind of freak we call 'em exploration calls, right? Where it's like, just tell me about your church and tell me how we can support it.
And there's a lot of free stuff that we do that doesn't cost a dime. And I want to give as many resources to churches as. And then there, you know, there's some things that we do a little more intentionally that are more like, you know, memberships. Like we're getting ready to start our first series of worship leader cohorts, which is the purpose of us all getting together over Zoom and actually [00:36:00] being able to pray for one another, encourage one another, and learn from one another in these really neat accountability circles and discipleship circles.
Mm-hmm. But the first step is just to reach out, man. If you've got any questions about how to do this or even what that looks like with your team, just email me. We'll set up a phone call and I'd love to talk to you about.
Tony: That's awesome. And I, I'll tell you guys, from my personal experience, dusty just does an incredible job of changing mindsets of the people on your team and building culture.
And so I can't endorse him enough for all of those reasons. And he's really talented musicians. So okay. Last question. I always love to ask people. It's an advice question except I get to take you back to the very specific season in your. and, and I, I wanna take you back to your very first Sunday leading worship.
As, as the guy, the front guy, you know, if, if you could go back to that younger version of Dusty sit, need a knee with him at after worship, right? He's come [00:37:00] home, he's ready for that post church nap. But before he takes the nap, you pull up a chair in front of him, you sit, need a knee, you hold his hands, you look him in the eyes.
What's the one piece of advice you're gonna give? .
Dusty: Yeah. Yeah. That's a hard question. Well, it's an easy question, but it's, it's emotionally difficult to answer . I, I would look him in the eye, look myself in the eye and say, listen, it is not about your talent or your skillset. Your identity is not founded in what you do and how you serve the church.
Right. And that's, that's a huge piece, not just with me, but with musicians across the board. Because when you spend your whole life, Learning a skill set. I mean, you know, practice three, four hours a day in little practice rooms. I mean, you, you've literally sacrificed your life to learn some, learn a skill like that.
You know, went to, went to undergrad college for it and just worked, worked, worked to try to make sure that, you know I was gonna be the best at what I did because I found all my value in what I did. Mm-hmm. that translated to the church as well, where it's like I have to be the best worship [00:38:00] leader, the most expressive, the mo, you know, I, I literally poured my entire identity into my talent.
And that was a dangerous place to be because, you know, number one, I never had to grow my heart because it was all about as long as I do my job really well and better than anybody else, number one, I'm gonna have job security. You know, nobody else can take my job. You know, number two, like that's, that's how I'm gonna make a name for myself.
And early on in ministry, I'd say it was much more about making a name for myself than it ever was about making a name for Jesus. And I think so many of us fall into that. . And, you know, that's, that's the one thing I want I would coach myself out of because it took me a long time to die to myself and learn that where I could stop caring and like, you know, like, oh, hit a wrong note.
I'm gonna go home and I'm gonna think about that for the next four hours on a Sunday afternoon. My Sundays were ruined all the time because all it took was one thing to go wrong and it, it was off. The whole thing was done. It was wow. You know? Oh man, it was terrible. And you know, you just end up.
depressed and isolated in that where you're constantly trying to make everything better, but for all the wrong reasons. So I would look at myself again and just say, man, your [00:39:00] identity is in who you are in Christ, and it's not in what you do. Because the reality is for all of us, man, at some point you're probably not gonna be able to do it anymore.
At some point, you know, our age or our health limitations, something is gonna happen where you're not gonna be able to do things the way that you once did, and where are you gonna be when that happens? If you're putting all of your stock in the wrong. So it's all about our identity with Christ and who we actually are in him, aside from any kind of ability that we possess.
Tony: Yeah, that's good man. I love it. And I appreciate your honesty and your heart. So dusty, obviously I love you man. I'm so thankful for what God's doing in you and three ya and, and so thankful to be on a team with you. So thank you for being so generous with your time.
Dusty: Absolutely, man, and I feel the same about you, and thank you for having me.
It's really a pleasure,
Tony: guys. I'm so thankful for that conversation with Dusty. I love his heart. I love his desire to just follow Christ more closely. And, you know, the, the wisdom that he gave himself at the end, the, the advice [00:40:00] question about it's not about you. I think that that has been something that I just continually see over and over again in my.
So, such a gift. Hey, if you found this conversation to be a gift, make sure that you share it with a friend, somebody who, who you can tell about worship, and maybe somebody who can hold you accountable to leaning into that next level of uncomfortability. Guys, I'm so thankful that you take the time to listen to these podcasts and that you're part of the reclamation community.
And and remember guys, if you wanna follow Jesus, you must be willing to.
