#138: Dr. Juli Slattery: Finding the Hero in Your Husband (And Why it Matters!)
Dr. Juli Slattery is a clinical psychologist, author, speaker and the president/co-founder of Authentic Intimacy. In our conversation, we talk about marriage, relationship dynamics, and why all of this is important to your relationship.
Links:
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/JuliSlattery | https://www.facebook.com/AuthenticIntimacy
Twitter: https://twitter.com/DrJuliSlattery | https://twitter.com/AuthenticIntmcy
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/authenticintimacy/
Website: https://www.authenticintimacy.com/
You can connect with Spirit and Truth here!
EP. 138
Tony: [00:00:00] Hey friends, welcome back to the Reclamation Podcast, where our goal is to help you reclaim good practices for faith and life. I'm Tony. And today is episode 138 of the podcast where I sit down with marriage and intimacy expert, Dr. Julie Slattery, Julie shares her latest resource, finding the hero in your.
And this conversation is so good. We talk about why the marital relationship is so hard, how we can't go into what she calls the husband improvement project and how disappointment is the first stage of marriage. This was an insightful and deep conversation. I know you're going to love so much and Hey, if you do love it, do me a favor.
Hit that subscribe button wherever you listen to. Leave a rating or review on iTunes and maybe even share this episode with a friend. I'm so thankful to be on this journey with each and every one of you. And now, without any further [00:01:00] ado, here's my conversation with Dr. Julie Slattery.
Hey everybody. Welcome back to the podcast. I'm excited today to have author speaker and intimacy coach Dr. Julie Slattery. Julie, thank you so much for being here today.
Juli: Always good to be with you. Thanks so much, Tony. I appreciate it.
Tony: So today we're talking about your brand new resource, which is kind of it's, it's not a new resource, but it feels really new.
And it's all about finding the hero in your husband. And this is a revisited kind of renew, refreshed approach to initial writing you did in 1999. I'm curious, what inside you, you said now is the time to give this a timeless truth a little bit of a face.
Juli: Yeah. You know, I felt probably over the last five years or so that it needed to be rewritten.
People were still buying it and I wanted to still recommend it because I think it has principles in it that are unique and helpful. But the way it was written [00:02:00] is very outdated. I've learned a lot. Culture has changed a lot. And even my voice is different today than it was when I wrote it as a young wife and as a young clinician.
And so so I finally got around to it and I'm glad I.
Tony: I'm always curious. What's your biggest takeaway or from the 1999 version of the text to the 20, 21 version of the text? What do you think? How would you describe the biggest the biggest difference?
Juli: Yeah, I think boy, there's so many differences.
I think. A few of them. And I don't know if I can isolate the biggest one would be just, again, my voice, like back then I was a young wife. And so I was writing from the perspective of trying to figure this out on my own and having little kids and being in the, in the throws of it. Now I'm that older woman that's saying, Hey, these principles actually work.
And here's how they've played out through seasons of marriage.[00:03:00] Mike and I have been married. 27 years, we just became empty nesters. And so there is, yeah. Thank you. It's as good as they say it is. Yeah, it's awesome. But, but I've, I've been seasoned in using these principles, not only in my own life, but throughout the course of decades of ministry, but I think there are.
Big cultural trends that we need to talk about that impact intimacy in marriage, even like the smartphone, how that's been a game changer on so many levels just how ubiquitous pornography is. And other kinds of just family and sexual brokenness that the average couple was dealing with in marriage.
Those are not one off situations. That's a norm today. And then I think the ongoing conversation about gender this gender make a difference in marriage. Is there, are there nuances that affect male and female, even as we see women get more empowered and more voice, and we see men feeling maybe less equipped to enter into adulthood, [00:04:00] all of that is going to play into the dynamics that a couple sets early on in marriage.
Tony: Now, one of the things that as I was looking through, the text that I became apparent is you're very open about how hard the marital relationship is. And so I I've been married for 19 years. My wife is my rock and we have done this together. We got three beautiful kids, two boys and a princess. My oldest is 16 almost, and my youngest is nine.
Why is this. So much harder than any relationship I have.
Juli: Well, because number one, you can't walk away from it. Number two, number two, you can't hide. So you can't just say, Hey like let's just deal with this part of life, but not this part. You have to, you have to do it all together. And third of all, because.
You are called to be one flesh. And so you make all your decisions as one, which [00:05:00] means you no longer have the autonomy and the freedom that you once had. And so it's, it's meant to be challenging. It's meant to reveal in us hidden selfishness. Again, areas that we like to hide and not expose. So there's nowhere to go.
It's all there. I, and so even the best of marriages are challenging and when marriage becomes really difficult it can be way beyond challenge.
Tony: So I'm diving into this book and I'm really excited about it. And I noticed that you started the book off with a really uplifting topic. You started the book off with disappointment, and I was like, I was like, whoa, welcome to the, welcome to the book, Tony.
This is.
Juli: Yeah, there's a reason for it. And you know, there's somebody I quote in the book says marriage is a romance in which the hero [00:06:00] dies in the first chapter and that's pretty depressing, but, but the average woman is going into marriage. Whether she says it out loud or not, with a lot of expectations of intimacy connection, I don't ever have to be lonely again.
And a disappointment is. Really the first stage of marriage. And I hate to say that, but I think women feel it sooner than men. In many cases we feel it more deeply than men do. If you ask a couple rate your marriage on a scale from one to 10, almost without exception, the woman's going to rate it lower than that guy is because she has.
More expectation of what that emotional intimacy is going to be. And so it doesn't take long for a year, again, even in a good relationship for a woman to say, Hey, there's some good things, but there's also some deep disappointment, and I'm not sure where to go with that. And so you start a book off [00:07:00] with a hook.
And sometimes you started out with the hook of, this is what I want. This is the beautiful picture we're painting, but sometimes the more effective hook is just what's name, what we're all feeling. And we don't really have a place to explore that that's constructive. So so that's why we started out with disappointment, but it's really.
Tony: I think it's really on point from 2007 to 2008, I was doing a marriage program for the army for soldiers coming back from deployment called strong bonds. And so I got to administer that program all over the Midwest and we traveled from Minnesota to Ohio. And one of the most resonating lessons that we learned are that failed expectations, lead to bitterness and disappointment.
And so I'm, I'm curious as we start to think about marital intimacy, whether you've been married, you know, fresh off the truck, so to speak, or you're, you're into it over a decade, how do we put all these [00:08:00] expectations for every season of life on the table in an authentic way that that grows the relationship?
Juli: Yeah, I think absolutely those failed expectations can be a road to betterness, but they also can be a road to growth. So so let me put it this way. You don't really know that you love your spouse until you don't feel love anymore.
Tony: So that's a big statement.
Juli: But love is tested when the feelings are gone.
And so and so if I go through marriage and I never hit that wall of disappointment or my husband at one level of. Another fills me. I really, first of all, don't even know if I love him, but second of all, I'm never learning to love him. And so I, you know, our culture defines love as feelings of my needs are being met.
It's that's really, self-love, that's really saying I love the way you make me feel. Cause. You're always [00:09:00] living up to my expectations. God defines love as a, particularly within the covenant of marriage. I'm loving you based on my character. I'm loving you. Based on my choice, I'm choosing to believe in you to see the best in you.
I'm choosing to continue to lean in, even when every part of me wants to lean away. So in order for us to learn that kind of love and develop it. This appointment is absolutely essential. You can't have intimacy without disappointment. And so instead of seeing it as man, my marriage is over, I married the wrong person.
I might as well give up. I really want women and couples to see like, actually this is the first step to intimacy because we have to get. Fairy tale land before we actually learn what it is to love another human being and grow that muscle of this doesn't feel good. This isn't what I signed up for. But this is who I [00:10:00] choose to be in this current.
Tony: I love the word that you said there, muscle, because I think it's probably something that we have to lean into with routine practice and discipline. So there's probably a couple listening. Who's hearing what you're saying and your feels like you're looking in on their marriage. How do they start taking all of the disappointment that they're experiencing and turn this into a, a perspective shift of like, oh, I'm so thankful for this routine disappointment from my husband or what.
Juli: Yeah. You know, scripture even says that, you know, at joy it says when you're very encounter various trials, but one of those is disappointment in marriage. And you know, we, if we go with the analogy of muscle, you know, you're working out the muscle and the G. Where you're trying to eat the right things.
And you constantly have distractions that take you away from that goal. And so it might be, I can work out another day or that chocolate [00:11:00] cake looks really good. And the same happens in marriage. We have candy all around us. That is saying you deserve better than this. You know, Hey, it's a romance novel, it's a chick flick it's pornography.
It's just the narrative of our culture. That marriage is all about happiness. If you're not fulfilled, then move on to the next person. And so some of getting that perspective shift is really recognizing. The temptations. There are always around us and not only around us, but become part of our own script that we tell ourselves when we're disappointed.
And instead, going to scripture where scripture is saying like Jesus is saying the most important thing about you is how you love and that's in marriage. I've for sure it plays out another relationships, but if, if Jesus were to speak to us, he'd say the most important thing about your marriage is how you love each other.
Like everything else is. You know, ancillary to that. [00:12:00] And so we have to have that perspective of how he loves us and how we learn the different phases of love and expressions of love and marriage. Some of them on the mountain high, and some of them when there wearing in the valley, really feeling like marriage is difficult.
Tony: When I first picked up the book, I thought maybe like it's clearly a book written for women, but I was really surprised on how much goodness was in there for guys too. One of the things that you say in there is that this isn't a husband improvement project. I was wondering if you could kind of expound upon like, If it's not a hunt husband improvement project.
And then why should the wife pick it up?
Juli: Yeah, because what it really is looking at is how you as a wife, understand and use your power. And so when we use our power, well in marriage, nine [00:13:00] times out of 10, it does result in our husbands growing and developing and learning to love us better. Her husband improvement project is the goal of this book is to fix my husband and a lot of women pick up marriage books for that reason.
They're like, how do I get him to help out with the chores more or be more active in parenting or lead me spiritually or stop using pornography. We have an end goal in mind and. The work of discipleship and spiritual formation is actually the goal is what does God want to do in my heart today? And how does he want to use my current circumstances to make me who he wants me to become?
And then the fruit of that is very often that our relationships began changing, but but sometimes we shortcut that spiritual formation piece and we just want to change him.
Tony: Yeah. We say around here a lot that that discipleship culture is [00:14:00] an individual practice that changes the common. Good. And, and it's, it seems like it's that same idea.
Now, you, you mentioned a word in there, power and that, that word has a lot of cultural connotation to it. And I'm wondering if you could kind of expound upon. What, what it means to have your power in your marriage and kind of, where does that thought process come from? In, in scripture and kind of how you began to unpack that?
Because I think a lot of people are like, yes, power, but I don't think that's.
Juli: No, no. And actually this concept of power was embedded in the original book before power became like the topic of the day. But really like if we talk about marriage relationship specifically for the wife, one verse that really captured my attention as a young wife was Proverbs 14.
One that says the wise woman builds her house, but with her own hands, the foolish one tears, hers down. And and [00:15:00] Solomon, I think captured this in that proper, but he also talks so often both about how a godly wife is this gift from God. It's a blessing, but how this contentious or nagging woman is like, like dripping rain on a tin roof, like just, oh, get me in, get me in another place.
And. In, when we look at Proverbs, we see this reflected out that there's good, good ways that a wife uses her power. And then there's negative ways that she uses her power. So we see some of that in scripture. We see it in some of the biblical narrative throughout both the old and new Testament. But I think this is also where I'm bringing in my background is as a clinical psychologist.
And understanding that when somebody has a need, that gives you relational power. So I let's say you're in, you're in college and you have to pass this class in order to graduate. Well, that professor who. Is the only [00:16:00] one right now who can meet that need and help you accomplish that goal. All of a sudden has tremendous power.
He or she can ask you to write a 50 page paper can ask you to, you know, stay up all night with some weird experiment. Because they have power. And so that, that power can be used well, or it can be used poorly. You know, parenting parents have tremendous power. We get to decide what our kids eat when they go to bed, what they wear to school.
Particularly when they're young we, God has given us power and so power. Of itself is a good thing. It's, it's a gift from God that has to be stewarded well, but any power can be used poorly or it's just as destructive when we don't use the power God has given us. So a neglectful parent, an absent parent is just as damaging as a toxic parent.
And the same is true in marriage. When a wife sits like a doormat, doesn't [00:17:00] use her power, doesn't speak her voice. She's. To her husband, the same way that a woman who becomes bossy and dominant is destructive to her honey.
Tony: So you know, I hear you talk about relational power and that resonates, I'm curious, what's the line between relational power and manipulation.
Juli: Yeah. So relational power is when manipulation is when I use my relational power subversively. So I'm not, I'm not going to say, for example to my husband, let's say we're deciding to buy a car. You have to buy the car. I want. Because I know better than you do, that's bossy, but that's just taking over.
So instead, what a woman might do is she uses that power subversively by, by saying, or acting out. If you don't buy the car, I want, I'm going to pay, make you pay for the next year. I'm going to power. I'm going to complain about it. Or I'm going to tell your best friend to tell you [00:18:00] that you should buy that car.
So that's an example, but women are really good at doing this. We know we have relational power, but instead of wanting to be bossy or dominant, we just become very subtle. And we pay back when we don't get our way and that's manipulation. I, moms are notorious for this. Like if you don't come for Thanksgiving, you're going to hear about it for at least six months, or I won't take your calls, you know, or I'll dig you that's manipulation.
And so manipulation is just one way that we use our relational power and destructively.
Tony: So I'm not going to speak for every guy out there, but I know some guys who are in cycles where it feels like they're stuck. Yeah. How do we, how do we break out of the unhealthy rhythms when it comes to relational power?
I'm going to say specifically for the guy, because I don't really counsel women and in marriage, stuff like that you know, I want a one, but I counsel guys all [00:19:00] the time one-on-one and they feel sometimes they feel stuck about, you know maybe they're they're like, man, she's going to hold that against me.
If I do that wrong or I can't do anything right. Or, yeah. You know, of course sex is always an issue when it comes to these kinds of relational power dynamics. What's the best way to reset the playing field for, for a husband or a wife?
Juli: Yeah. So I can only control how I use my relational power. I can't control how my spouse uses his.
And so when marriage goes poorly, it's when the wife is trained to change the husband or the husband's trying to change the wife. So. What a guy can do is, is really realize where has God given me relational power? Where does my wife have unique needs that I'm intended to meet? And so one of the core needs that a woman has in marriage is to feel valued or cherished.
Now when, when a husband is feeling manipulated the last thing he wants to do [00:20:00] is value wife. He begins to withhold affection withhold any kind of affirmation even time he doesn't want to spend time at home. And so now you start using your relational power that makes marriage. Unsafer your wife.
I would say another corny that women have in marriages, they want to feel protected. And so there are a lot of husbands that are good at encouraging and being appreciative and saying, oh honey, you look beautiful today, but they're not stepping up and they're not stepping up in leadership. They're not.
Praying over their wives. They're not confronting when necessary, they're becoming passive. And so when a woman's married to a passive man, she by nature is going to want to step into that void. And she does become manipulative and controlling. And so some of what I would encourage husbands to do is never one love your wife.
[00:21:00] Well, With your time and your words and your money just love. Let her know she's loved and appreciated, but number two, step into leader. Step into making decisions for the family when needed to and this doesn't mean being domineering or autocratic. It means there are so many women who are like, why won't my husband speak up?
Why doesn't he help discipline the kids? Why am I the one carrying the load? And so. Part of the, again, a reason a woman, woman manipulate is because she wants to see your strength and she doesn't see it.
Tony: Hey friends just interrupting this conversation with Dr. Julie, to tell you a little about the spirit and truth podcast network.
We are a group of like-minded individuals that are committed to walking alongside the church. We do that through empowering the spirit, being rooted in the truth and mobilizing churches for the mission. We've got a big event coming up, March 17th through the ninth. The spirit and truth [00:22:00] conference you can register today@spiritandtruth.life slash conference.
And when you register, we're going to give you a $20 off coupon. When you type reclamation at the checkout code. Now this conference is going to be in Dayton, Ohio, March 17th, through the 19th. On the evening of the 17th and 18th and on the morning of the 19. So you'll still be home in time for church on Sunday.
And this is going to be more like a camp meeting than a conference. It's an opportunity to connect with the holy spirit, to have your cup filled and to get excited about what God is doing in the year ahead. So sign up today, spirit and truth.life/conference. Now let's finish up our conversation with Dr.
Julie Slattery. That's. Yeah, that's a really good word. One of the things that you talk about quite a bit in the book is this idea about about finding the hero in your husband, not just finding a husband who can be your hero. And that, that perspective [00:23:00] shift seems really pivotal to this next level of intimacy that I think you're pushing us towards in, in this dialogue.
Can you talk a bit about what it means to be a hero as in, in the way that you kind of mean it and, and this perspective shift idea? I find this facet.
Juli: Yeah, I'd love for you to speak in on it too, from a guy's perspective. But if we take the Bible at face value, when it talks about marriage, it's essentially saying that marriage is a form of revelation.
It's meant to reveal something about the nature of Christ's relationship with the church, or God's covenant love for his people. And so we read in Ephesians five that. Like men are cast in the role of emulating Jesus to their wives. And man, he's, he's the ultimate hero laying down his life for us, always using his strength and leadership in a way that would nurture his bride.
[00:24:00] Just being totally I'm here to do the will of God. The father. Being a man of righteousness who had boundaries and strength and dignity, but never lorded it over anyone. And so men are, are created to, to be like that, which you're like, I can't do that. That's, that's a huge, but, but if you, if you actually look at the romance story that we all fall for, like every chick flick, every romance book, There's there's echoes of that hero that we want, that every woman wants.
We want the Knight in shining armor. We want Mel Gibson from the gladiator. Like we want that. We want that guy who's strong enough and bold enough, but yet is tender and righteous and compassionate. And so this is where the disappointment comes in because you're married to a real man who. It, isn't going to be able to live up to that, that cry of your heart.
And so some of it is recognizing that we are [00:25:00] ultimately made for God to be our hero, but we also are on this journey. Painting a picture in our marriage where we're calling out the hero and our own husband, where we're seeing his strength. We're seeing his dignity. We're seeing his desire to be a competent man who comes through instead of a guy who doesn't show up or who fails.
And. Women based on our relational power, we have the influence of either encouraging and calling out that hero or discouraging that guy from ever wanting to take risks and step into that role.
Tony: Yeah, that's the risk part is probably the most the part that stings the most and all of that, right?
Because it, it is a little bit as a guy, like it's a little bit of a risk or a lot of a risk to step out in faith and try to be that hero. And, and I, you know, as I've been discipled over the years, I [00:26:00] think my pursuit of Jesus has made me a much better. Husband. There was a season in my marriage that was not good.
I was working at a church and I just got in over my head at the church and in a lot of different ways and my marriage, I thought I was going to lose it all. And it wasn't until I started praying over my wife and then having her pray over me and me accepting responsibility for that, that things really began to shift.
And then, and then I started to see Jesus in this whole new way and you get to John 13 and Jesus takes off. To Nick and he becomes so intimate and vulnerable and he washes the disciples feet and I'm like, man, on my best days, that's the husband I want to be. And that's kind of the sacrificial hero that.
Juli: Yeah. And you know, in every marriage, the woman wants the guy to be a hero and he wants to be a hero. So they agree on that. That's that's a good starting place emotionally. They might not use those words, but. [00:27:00] It's a story that's written on our hearts and it's a good story, but it's a story that we journey toward.
And when you say, Hey, risk, is this the sting in it? It's much less of a risk. If you're married to a woman, who's not going to be looking for you to. We're reminding you of ways that you have failed, but it's inviting that risk and be like, Hey, it's okay. You know, like we're in this together, I'm on your team.
I'm not looking to criticize or correct you every time you do something differently than the way I think it should be done. So part of it is how do I make my marriage a place where it's safe for my husband to read.
Tony: Yeah. So I'm a words of affirmation guy and my love languages, and my wife's least skilled gift is words of affirmation.
And we've talked about this and worked through this, and so she wouldn't mind me sharing it. It, it it got a lot better. When I said, babe, I just need you to say these words to me, [00:28:00] especially when, when I was new at preaching, I would get off the platform and I would be like, I just need you to tell me I did a good job because you're the affirmation.
I want more than anyone else in this room. Now's not the time to tell me that I said Habakkuk wrong or something like that. You know?
Juli: And Tony isn't that so true. Her vote is the most important vote. And it's not just when you preach, it's how you parent, it's how you go about work. It's how you spend money.
It's how you look in a suit. There's lots of people voting, but God has given your wife. The most influential vote on thumbs up or thumbs down. And so I really want women to understand the power they have and when they're always reacting out of their disappointment, or even if they believe, Hey, I got a level him a bit, that's going to be motivation for him to grow.
Like, no, actually that's going to sabotage intimacy because you're not safe for him.
Tony: So when, when couples become disconnected and they forget they're [00:29:00] on their same team, or they they've kind of taken this a little too far, what are kind of some of the first steps that they can do to get re reacclimated to those kind of those core truths that you've already pointed out, that we, you know, we want our spouses, we want our wives approval guys, and, you know, they want us to be the hero and you know, how do we get back to some of those.
Juli: Yeah, I think some of it is just awareness. You know, I've, I've had times where I've given this message, like at a conference or a venue like that, and women have come up to me afterwards and they've just said, as soon as I got off, like, as soon as you got off the stage, I had to go call my husband and just apologize because like hearing your words, I realize that.
Eight years or two years, I've become that woman who all I can do is criticize and make fun of, or be [00:30:00] bossy. And and I realized that I'm doing that out of self protection. I realized I'm doing that because I'm afraid and I don't want to do that anymore. And so that's the first step for a husband or a wife is to realize I'm living out.
Self protection. I'm not, I'm not building my marriage anymore and I don't want to live this way. And God doesn't want me to live this way. So re that awareness and confession and repentance for all of us is really the first step to any change. And sometimes that can be a big move where it literally has been a decade.
And sometimes it's just been like, Hey, you know, I've been in a bad mood the last three days. I need to confess that and get back on the right track.
Tony: So I think one of the things that. Talk about quite a bad way. I know one of the things you talk about quite a bit is intimacy. Repentance feels like what you're talking about here.
This idea of apologizing, this feels like [00:31:00] this whole process of intimacy. If, if you were going to talk to some of the guys out there specifically w w how can we build intimacy in our marriage? And then, and then maybe it, would you give the same advice to women or would it be.
Juli: Yeah, I think intimacy is the same basic concept for both men and women.
It's the idea that I can be seen and known for who I am and that's safe for me. So so it plays out differently in men and women. It plays out differently in unique marriages, but I think for most guys, and this is not true of every man, but most guys are less aware of. How they're hiding. So the opposite of intimacy is hiding, right?
It's like, if you think about physical intimacy, you want to be completely naked. There's no barrier between you and your spouse. Well, the same is true with emotional intimacy. You can only be so intimate with clothes [00:32:00] on like and you really can't be intimate if you're wearing a suit of armor. And so emotionally we grow up learning to put on all these things that keep us from being known and things like performance.
Like I have to always be the best at something or sarcasm. Like I'm just going to diffuse things with a joke. So people don't get too close to me or conflict. As soon as I feel too threatened, I'm going to get angry and create an argument or a fight. And so as we grow, we learn, Hey, those are actually things that might have got me through my childhood, but they're keeping me from intimate relationship.
And so for guys, because. For most men, this, this isn't a normal kind of way that you talk with other guys. It's a learning journey. And I think even just saying to your wife, like asking her, what would it look like for me to share my feelings more with you or to be more intimate with you? Asking questions, like what don't I [00:33:00] know about you that you'd love for me to know.
And when she points out, like every time we have a conversation, I feel like you're always joking. Then take that as feedback. Yeah. I kind of do use humor as a defense, you know, I don't, I want to try not to do that as much. So it's, it's growing in awareness and just wanting to be on that jury.
Tony: So I'm going to ask if it's okay. If I get a little personal, I'm curious, you've been married for a number of years. What are some of the disciplines, the marital disciplines that you observe to stay connected to Mike? And what's that? I mean, what's that look like in practice? Give us something.
Juli: Yeah.
Yeah. So we had one marriage counselor tell us, and this might simplify it a bit, but it's good. Like couples that stay together, pray together, play together and lay together. So, and then something you can remember, like I heard that probably 15 years ago and I still remember it. [00:34:00] So so pray together, like have that spiritual connection, even if it's just, Hey, in the morning, like when we're doing our devotions, let's spend a few minutes to pray or some couples at night before they go to bed, they just have a quick prayer together.
And then playing is really important. You know, the, the marriage journey is long. You're going to have. Hard things you have to deal with. You have to have breaks where you go on a date, you go on an adventure, you laugh together, you can be silly with one another and you have to work at playing. It play will get squeezed out of life if you're non-intentional about it.
And then also sexual intimacy, not only because it's a thing in and of itself, but because it's so symbolic of the journey of intimacy and couples that can't. Even learned to talk about their sex life and learn to talk openly about the barriers they experience are [00:35:00] really going to have a ceiling on their level of intimacy.
So those are three areas of just investment that I think long-term really do translate into growing intimate.
Tony: And then, so do you and Mike van have a routine in terms of like playing together? Like, does that, does that look like, oh, we take a trip once a quarter. I mean, obviously you're in a different season of your life, but like, I, you know, I'm kind of curious about like, how often should we be trying to put in the date night or the, do you have recommendations.
Juli: Yeah. So I give my husband credit for the play part. So he's really fun. I'm really serious. And he laughs like we were just talking about this last night. Cause we read a study that children laugh like. Over a hundred times a day and adults laugh on average six times a day and I'm like, wow. I'm like, you probably laugh like at least 30 times a day because he just naturally laughs.
He loves to tell [00:36:00] stories. And so he'll bring that playfulness even into everyday life and conversation. He also. Like invite me to have fun, you know, so, and it might be something like, Hey, it's been a long day. Let's just watch something fun and funny on Netflix or it could be let's just go for a walk and let's go for a hike.
Where we're intentional about taking breaks together and trying new things together and then building in vacation. So like part of his personality is he always wants to have something to look forward to. And so he's always thinking, even if it's a year away, what's the next time that we're going to be able to get to get alone together.
And let's start thinking about that and, and planning for it. So. So he's, he, he carries the play pretty heavy for our relationship, and I love that about him.
Tony: Well, and it's good that you know that right. Then, then you know that, you know how I mean, you guys can, can put that heavy lifting [00:37:00] together on the, again, it goes back to being on the same team, if you're on the same team and you know, the desired outcome then.
Yeah. The networks I do want to ask about your 6:00 AM group. I, I was, I was reading in the the author's notes. I think about your, your early morning group. How important is community around this topic? I mean, I feel like there's a lot of cultural influences. Now. How intentional are you about getting godly women in your life who are going to speak into healthy marriage?
Juli: Yeah, I'm really intentional. And not only for me as a woman, but also for us as a couple. And so there've been seasons of our lives where that's been natural and we have a group of friends and we have that community, but they're also been seasons where, like, I remember one year it was new year's and we were kind of revisiting, how has this year been and what do we want to change?
And I just remember saying. We're we're isolated. Like we're lonely [00:38:00] because we're living in Colorado in the Springs and he was driving up to Denver every day for work. And we're busy with work and parenting. And we had moved there recently and we just had not built community together. So I had friends, I had those women in my life, but we didn't have it together.
And so we made it a new year's resolution. Like let's build a community, we started a marriage group and that we ended up meeting with until we moved from Colorado. So we probably met with them for like five or six years, and they were younger couples that we were investing in. So that was okay too, but it was just being intentional about.
Surrounding yourself with people that are champions for your marriage that are going to speak life into your marriage and into you and into your relationship. The Lord, I really don't know how we survive without that.
Tony: Yeah, I think that's a really good word. And if, if you're listening and you're not sure where to [00:39:00] go for those kinds of relationships, I can tell you, just call your pastor.
He, he, or she wants desperately to connect you to other people for, for that, those kinds of purposes. This is, this is why I think corporate worship is so important. And and, and why it's so important to, to rebound after, you know, the last year and a half. Two years of COVID getting back into this.
Jesus came in the flesh. We have to meet people in the flesh, you know, it's important, it's important.
Juli: And the other thing is don't be afraid to start it yourself. So I would say in the last 10 years, every group we've been in we've started and we're okay with that. I mean, we're at the stage of life where we are that older couple now, but even, so if you wait around for someone else to start a group and to invite you and to run it the way you think it should be run, like you're going to be waiting forever.
There are other people in your church, in your neighborhood who, who also need to connect. So don't be afraid to be the one that opens your [00:40:00] home and just says, Hey, we'll create that space.
Tony: So my listeners love to pray. And as this book is back out into the wilderness with this brand new kind of fresh vibe to it, what is the prayer that you're kind of associating with this book?
How can we be praying with you and, and for you.
Juli: Yeah. I didn't realize when I rewrote this book, the culture that it would be born into. So when it first was coming out, like I was like really guide like all this conversation now about. About women and men and toxic masculinity and the me too movement.
And then CRT like conversation about power. And I really felt like man, if I had known that I don't know, that would have had the courage to address. A lot of the topics that are in the book with the boldness that I did. So I feel like God kind of tricked me a little bit all that, all that to [00:41:00] say, you know, when it first came out, I just had prayer warriors praying over the book and I just had to release it to the Lord and send it out and say, Lord, do what you will with it.
The F it's been out for about a month and the feedback has just been so encouraging. I think people are hungry for truth. That goes back to scripture. And so my prayer is just that as, as God said, that his word will be sent out in it won't return void, but it will yield a fruit of a harvest. Of righteousness.
So so that it finds the right hearts and that they're open to receive it. And it really does help us know how to honor God in our marriage.
Tony: That's so good. Okay. I have one more question to ask, but before I do it, I like to, I know my listeners are gonna want to connect with you all over the interwebs.
Where is the best place for them to find you, to find your ministry, to pick up their copy of the book?
Juli: Yeah, so the [00:42:00] ministry that I run is called authentic intimacy and a lot of what we talk about is biblical sexuality. So we do have marriage resources, obviously this book. Resources around marriage, but sort of the, the heart of the call God has given me is conversations around biblical sexuality and what that looks like in our day and age.
So if you go to authentic intimacy.com, you'll find the job elite Julie podcast. And this book is as well as several others that I've written an opportunities to get into book clubs and things like.
Tony: Yeah, that's so good. And I've been on your website. It's really good. And, and I w I really fought the urge to talk to you about biblical sexuality, because it's a, it's an area that I feel if guys could figure out how to invite Jesus into their sex life, they have no idea the benefits, the fullness of life that comes with that.
And so that's a whole nother podcast that maybe someday we could record.
Juli: I'd really like that, that sounds great.
Tony: Okay. Last question. I always love to ask [00:43:00] people. It's an advice question and except you have to give yourself one piece of advice and I get to name the specific kind of a season of your life.
And so I want to take you back to the day before this book releases in 1999. And I'd like for you to look at that younger version of Julie and give her one piece of advice, what would.
Juli: Oh boy, that's a good question. One piece of advice I just think claim to God in his word, you know, it w it really never fails as out of date, as it might seem to our modern culture. I've had the privilege of watching God's word, just Pierce hearts and heal lives. And so put your full confidence in him and his word and don't ever waver.
Tony: Amen. Amen.
That's so good. [00:44:00] Thank you so much for being so generous with your time today and for your openness. And and honestly for this resource, I think it's going to do. Great things to continue to build the kingdom.
Juli: Thank you. Thanks for letting me have a chance to talk about it.
Tony: Love, love, love what Dr. Slattery had to say today. I really appreciated the way she talked about how love is tested when the feeling is gone and all the married people said. Amen. Right? I, I don't know. Some of her stuff just makes so much sense to me about what does disappointment mean about expectations? About how each of us need to find the hero in our spouse.
And especially for us guys, you know, we, we want that feeling of being valued and respected. So this was a really good dialogue. Her stuff is really good, authentic intimacy.com. Make sure you check her out, follow her on the socials. Let her know that you heard her here on the reclamation plan. And the, I promise she's going to be back on.
I want to talk to her very soon about a biblical [00:45:00] intimacy. She's an expert in that field, and I think we all need to talk about it. So thank you guys so much for being a part of this community. Thank you for being here and listening today. And remember, if you want to follow Jesus, you must be willing to move.
