#201: Kayla Stoecklein: Rebuilding Beautiful
Sometimes, the journey from agony to awe takes time. Rebuilding Beautiful is the perfect roadmap for anyone who's on the path from heartache to a life that is a new kind of beautiful.
Kayla shares her story of pain, and rebuilding!
Links:
https://www.kaylastoecklein.com/
https://www.instagram.com/kaylasteck/
https://www.instagram.com/twmilt/
EP. 201
Tony: [00:00:00] Hey everybody. Welcome back to the Reclamation Podcast, where our goal is to help you reclaim good practices for following Jesus. If we haven't met yet, my name is Tony, and I'm your host with over a decade in the local church. I want to help you move closer to Jesus through intentional dialogue and practices.
Today's conversation, episode 2 0 1. Is with bestselling author, mental health advocate, and really incredible storyteller. Kayla Stock. Kayla is an advocate for mental health. Several years ago, she lost her husband to suicide, and ever since then, she's been sharing her pain to help other stories prosper.
She's got a brand new resource out called Rebuilding Beautiful. We talk about that. We talk about her journey, what it's like to raise three incredible boys on her own and just kind of the where she is. [00:01:00] This is an incredible story, a vulnerable story, and is perfect for anyone who knows someone who struggles with mental.
Hey, if this conversation is helpful to you, do me a favor. Hit that subscribe button wherever you listen to podcasts. Share this episode with a friend. Maybe somebody who, you know, oftentimes struggles with mental health stuff. It's real, It's out there. I know that I have been in seasons like that myself, so, Without any further ado, let's jump into this conversation with Kayla Stockland.
Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the podcast. I'm excited today to have author, speaker, and mental health advocate. Kayla Stack line with me today. Kayla, thank you so much for being on the podcast. .
Kayla: Thanks for having me. It's a joy to be here.
Tony: So we're gonna dive into your story in just a little bit, but I always kind of love to jump in from a macro perspective and I'm, I'm really interested to see how you answer this question.
So it, how would you describe the call that God has placed on your life?[00:02:00]
Hmm.
Kayla: Surprising, overwhelming. .
Tony: Beautiful. Hmm.
Now your story we're, we're gonna jump into, it took a, a really difficult turn in 2018. What words would you have described your call prior to then? If I could, if I could ask if, Yeah, it's kind of a big question there.
Kayla: Predictable, secure.
Tony: Good. Hmm. I, I love the connection. Good and beautiful and surprising and predictable and . And so maybe the next best thing to do is could you share a little bit of your story and kind of what you've been through what you went through in 2018 and kind of just this journey that you've been on and, and, mm-hmm.
you know, kind of bring our, our [00:03:00] podcast family kind of into your family a little bit as you so vulnerably share all that God has done in you over the last couple years. .
Kayla: Yeah. So over four years ago, I was living my dream life. I mean, I really truly, on paper, had everything I could have ever asked for and more, was married to my dream guy.
We were doing ministry together at a church in Chino, California, Southern California. He had grown up in the church. Its parents had started it when he was three, and he had taken over the church as the lead pastor in 2015 as his dad was dying from leukemia. So we had been through some really hard stuff.
His dad was diagnosed with leukemia about one year into our marriage, and it was about a four year journey. And so we had been through it, you know, and, and during those four years we had kids, and when he became the lead pastor, I was pregnant with our third kid, and so life was full. The Sundays just [00:04:00] kept coming, is what Andrew, my husband would.
Say and it was meaningful and beautiful and we were doing really meaningful work in the ministry and I was just in awe of my husband. I mean, I would describe my identity at that time in my life was Andrew. I mean, I was just wrapped up in everything that he was. He was my whole world, his calling was my calling, and I felt super call just to serve him and serve our church and serve our little family, our three little boys to the best of my ability.
And so in that season of life, that's what I was doing. And in the fall of 2017, Andrew got sick. He started having panic attacks really outta nowhere, these very debilitating panic attacks that were happening. Three to four times a week. And you know, I think looking back, I think his body just was totally burnt out.
Wow. From running fast and running hard and stepping up and stretching himself thin and watching his dad die and, and grieving and never [00:05:00] stopping and going, going, going, going and never pumping the brakes and never stopping. And so I started having these panic attacks and at first, you know, we didn't even think about all the things we'd gone through.
We just thought, Oh, maybe he has like a thyroid issue. Maybe this is. Small thing, we can just go to the doctor, get some medication. Yeah, make the panic attacks go away. We can keep on going full steam ahead, like no big deal. And so he kept preaching on Sundays, kept having panic attacks. We were trying to get to the bottom of it.
And so from about October to April, he was having these crazy panic attacks. Some of them were so bad like minutes before he was supposed to be on stage. He was on the back. Floor, you know, in a full blown panic attack. And so it was really hard and confusing and you know, asking God to heal him and feeling like God's not answering us.
And then ultimately he has a massive panic attack where he lands in the hospital. And it was then that we, we like me and our family and our, our board of directors at the church decided, you know, enough is enough. This guy needs to rest. We finally [00:06:00] realized after, from October to April, he was having these massive panic.
Finally realized like, okay, maybe he just needs to rest. And so put him on the sabbatical April, 2018 and just a few weeks later, he was diagnosed with depression. And I'll never forget sitting in that office and hearing those words, Your husband has depression, and just being totally shocked. It was a part of our life.
That I just never saw coming and that I never expected. My husband was this invincible, strong, talented, super gifted man that in my eyes was just totally capable of doing anything he said his mind too. And so it was shocking. It felt like this depression had come outta nowhere. And so for me it was shocking for my husband.
It was relieving cuz he was like, Okay, we finally have some answers as to why I've been having all these panic attacks. Yeah. And so the doctors in him were super hopeful. They said he was on the low end of the depression spectrum with rest and medication and therapy. [00:07:00] He would be back to himself and back to work in no time.
And so I trusted the doctors, Andrew trusted the doctors, and we were doing everything we needed to do to help. He was seeing a psychiatrist. He was taking medication. We were seeing a therapist together for two hours every single week. He had time off work, he was spending time with mentors. We did a two week road trip, just the two of us.
Like I was trying to create as much space at home.
Tony: Oh, you were doing, literally doing all, everything you could possibly do.
Kayla: Yeah, everything we knew, you know, everything we knew to do. And we thought he was getting better and the doctors thought he was getting better. And so in August of 2018, he was released to go back to work and he hit the ground running and did two.
Preached to powerful weekends on mental health. And at the time even though it was just four years ago, you know, not a lot of churches, not a lot of pastors were talking about mental health and depression and suicide and anxiety. So it was a really powerful few weekends and people were double dipping for services.
They were coming in the morning, coming back at night, bringing friends [00:08:00] and tears. Super grateful that he was tackling such a tough topic. And Andrew's being super vulnerable and talking about his own struggles. You know, gave out the suicide hotline number. I mean, out of anyone. He would've known where to turn for help.
He had done all his research, he knew all the facts. He would've known where to go for help. And then headed into the third weekend, he had his message ready to go for Sunday. We were supposed to have a big team rally that Friday night with all our volunteers, and he was excited for Sunday. . And then on Thursday that week just had a really bad day at the office and we know, we all know what it's like to have a really bad day at the office, and his mind was still super fragile.
And so it just sent him into a tail spin. And it was bad enough where our family and like our board of directors quickly realized like, okay, maybe he wasn. You know, maybe he shouldn't have gone back to work. Maybe he wasn't ready to go back to work. Maybe his mind is still a lot sicker than he was willing to admit, or that we were, that we [00:09:00] were able to see.
And so the next day, while we were away from him for just a little bit taking the next right steps, trying to check all our boxes, trying to guest speaker for Sunday, I figure out who. Speak at the team rally that night calling his doctors, trying to find, Okay, we've tried all these other things.
What else can we try? How else can we help him? Is there an inpatient facility? Like just trying to check all our boxes? And so we could go to him and say, Hey, this is what we're doing. Yeah, you don't even have to think about it. We're not gonna argue about it. This is what we're gonna do to take care of you and help you.
And so while we were away from him for just a little bit of time doing that, he attempted suicide and it was an absolute. Blindside. Yeah. I mean, for me and our family and our church and the doctors, I mean, none of us saw it coming and he was rushed to the hospital and they ran a bunch of tests and unfortunately there wasn't anything they could do to save him.
And so on August 25th, 2018, he took his last breath. And [00:10:00] with that, I took my first in this life that I never saw coming as a widow at 29 years old with three little boys who were two, four, and five years old. So it's been a whirlwind the last four years, and our story just spread like wildfire and the response from Andrew's death and the way that God, you know, so quickly began to redeem our story.
It's just been a journey. And I know for a fact that hundreds of lives were saved, have been saved, continue to be saved through Andrew's death. And my willingness. To share about it and write about it and talk about it. And just God's hand in all of it and God's grace in all of it. Only through the grace of God that he can save people's lives through somebody's death.
You know, Like that just doesn't happen. So yeah, that's like the gist of our story and our life. Been, I wrote a book called Fear Gone Wild that came out in [00:11:00] 2020. That's a memoirish book that kind of tells the story of my journey with Andrew from the very first panic attack through the suicide and the little bit of the grief journey after.
And I wrote that in the very first year of grief. So it was very cathartic and healing just to sit and type and cry. And I was encouraged by other speakers and authors mm-hmm. To write it while the pain was fresh, to reach the person that was sitting in pain. And so I'm so grateful that I. And it's been a really cool to see how God has used that to help other people.
And I didn't want it just to be our story. I also wanted it to be like this practical resource. And so all throughout the book, there's practical tips and tools on what do we do with depression? What do we do when somebody tells us they're struggling with suicidal thoughts? What do we do about pain? How do we handle grief?
What do we do about anxiety? What do we do about depression? So, I wanted it to be helpful and it's been really cool to see how it has been. And then I wrote another book called Rebuilding Beautiful that releases in just a couple weeks, September 20th. [00:12:00] And super excited about this book, Rebuilding.
Beautiful. It's kind of been my mantra for the last four years. It's. What I feel like I'm doing every single day. I had this beautiful life with Andrew and it's like that whole entire life died with him. And I was forced to start all over from scratch with three little kids. And so I'm still rebuilding.
I don't think I'll ever arrive. I don't think I'll ever be finished. But it's been a really interesting, beautiful journey and there's just been so many things I've learned along the way. And so those are all captured in that. Which is super exciting and really excited about that.
Tony: Yeah, that's, that's so much
You , you, you've had an incredible four years and yeah, I, I, I don't want, I want to talk about rebuilding. Beautiful. But before I do that, I, I'm wondering if you can talk to the person who's listening right now who has a, a loved one who is, who is wrestling with depression. And I'm, I'm wondering if, if maybe you could give.
All, all of us. Just [00:13:00] a word about like how, how to how to love them Well when they, when they don't feel like they can love themselves and yes. I'll just stop there. I have a tendency to want to ask multiple questions cuz I so many thoughts, but let's just start there.
Kayla: I think the best thing you can do as a loved one, as a caretaker for someone that's struggling with their mental health is to take care of yourself first. It's like that oxygen mask thing on the airplane that all the pastors like to you message illustration. You, we've put the oxygen mask on first before you hit the oxygen mask on your kid, but really and truly, like if you don't fill up your own cup, if you don't take care of your own mental health, if you don't take your own time, To just rest and be on and be ready.
Then you're not gonna be able to respond with the heart of love if you don't do that. And so I would just encourage you to, it's not selfish to take time for yourself. And it can feel selfish when you're caring for [00:14:00] somebody that's sick cause it can feel like their needs are greater than your needs.
But you need. Tender care and rest just as much as they do. So just wanna say that I didn't do a very good job of that, and I just always encourage people to take that time. I wish I would've gone to therapy by myself. We went to therapy for two hours every single week. But I wish I would've gone to see the therapist by myself and had that safe space to vent about all the things I was going through and all the things I was carrying and all the fears that I was feeling in that season.
And then once you can take care of yourself and fill up your cup and take that time as much as you can to rest. And even if that's at four o'clock in the morning or if it's at night after the kids go to bed then I, I think it's just being as present as possible. It's trying to lean in to moments that are uncomfortable.
It's. You know, I think, I think mental illness and depression has to be treated as a team. I don't think it's a one on one thing. I think it has to be a team, I think, and for us, you know, that team [00:15:00] included me and a couple of, a few immediate family members, and his psychiatrist and his doctor and our therapist, couple of guys from the board of directors.
Like it has to be treated as a team. I couldn't carry. Andrew's depression on my own. I couldn't care for his needs on my own. I needed other people around us to help support him in his healing journey. And so maybe that, I hope that helps take some of the pressure off the people that are walking alongside somebody.
You don't. You can't be everything. That they need. And so, you know, asking, being willing to ask for help is huge. Being willing to take it seriously is also huge. You know, the sooner, the better. The sooner that you reach out for help, the better. There was one time that Andrew. was brave enough to tell me that he was struggling with suicidal thoughts, and I'll never forget the conversation.
We were up in the middle of the night, Actually, no, we were not. That's different part of the story. It was the, it was the end of the day. The boys had just gone to [00:16:00] bed. We're sitting at the kitchen counter. And I'm venting to Andrew. I'm exhausted. I'm stretched thin. I was not doing a good job of taking care of myself and I'm like taking care of these three young boys who are home for the summer.
Also trying to care for my husband, who is very unpredictable. I don't know which version of him I'm gonna get coming out of the bedroom in the morning. So sitting at the kitchen counter, I'm venting to him like hoping that he can see me and hear me and love me and just like be there for me for a minute and instead, you know, he saw my vulnerability as an invitation for him to be vulnerable too.
And so he opened up about how he was feeling and his own pain, and told me that he had been up in the night, the middle of the night, the night before, and he had thought about killing himself and. So exhausted. I was so run dry that I totally just reacted. I, I couldn't respond. I just totally reacted out my own emotion and I said all the things you're not supposed to [00:17:00] say to someone that's struggling with suicidal thoughts.
I told him he was selfish. I told him he would never do that. I told, didn't validate any of his feelings, and I just, Brushed it off as something that would never happen. And his response to me was, Kayla, that's not something that you say to someone that's struggling with suicidal thoughts. And he was right.
You know, it's not what you say to someone that's struggling with suicidal thoughts. And so I just wanna encourage anyone that's listening. If you have a loved one that's battling with depression, and they're telling you that they're struggling with suicidal thoughts, or they have thoughts of harming themselves, like you have to take it seriously.
You can't shrug it off you. Assume it's never gonna happen. It's time to lean in. It's time to ask questions. Questions like, Do you have a suicide plan? What problem are you trying to solve through suicide? Do you know when or how you would do it? How often do you think about it? I wish I would've been more comfortable with the word suicide.
The truth is the word suicide scared. I felt so uncomfortable saying the word [00:18:00] suicide out loud, that I couldn't even believe that it was gonna ever be a possibility. It made me so uncomfortable, but I wish I would've asked him about the suicidal thoughts every single day. I wish I would've picked up the phone and called the psychiatrist and called the therapist and called a couple family members.
Include them in on the conversation so that they could be asking him about it every single day, too. You know, when someone tells you they're struggling with suicidal thoughts, it's time to. Seriously, it's time to pick up the phone and make those phone calls. It's time to pick up the phone and call the suicide hotline number, text the crisis text line and say, Hey, my loved one just said this to me.
What do I do? How do I help them? There are so many resources available to us, and I just think we have to tap into those cuz we, it's not something that we can handle on our own. And I think suicidal. Thoughts, love to stay in the dark. Suicidal thoughts, love to stay hidden. They love to stay ignored.
They love to stay, you know, just close to the vest. And so the more that we can talk [00:19:00] about it, the more comfortable we can get with the word suicide. The more that we can bring it into the light the better the chances of saving our loved one from suicide.
Tony: I really appreciate the way that you said that you reacted versus responded.
I, I think that that's some really good language that we can all hold onto. I guess I, I'm curious personally you know that you have those, that reaction and then the story ends up playing out the way it does. How, how, what do you do with those feelings after that? I, and, and I completely understand if that's an off limits question.
I, I don't wanna go anywhere that you're not ready to go, but I, I'm, I'm just kind of curious cuz I, I mean, I know, I just know a lot of people say things that they wish they could take back, but they can't. And sometimes you get the opportunity to repair and sometimes you don't.
Kayla: when somebody dies by suicide the loved ones are left in an [00:20:00] endless sea of whatev. Could have, should have. That's just the truth. Yeah. And for months and months and months my mind just tried to save him. My mind came up with a million different ways that I could have and should. Saved him. And you know, that's the most horrific thing about suicide.
That's the biggest tragedy of suicide is that none of us know it's happening. None of us know that it's coming. And, you know, what's been so helpful for me to lift off that shame and blame off of my shoulders, to lift it off of everyone else's shoulders, to even lift it off of Andrew's shoulders has been changing the way that I talk about suicide.
You know, Small change in language from saying committed suicide to saying died by suicide. Totally takes the blame off of Andrew. I don't believe that Andrew wanted to die. I don't believe that Andrew even saw the suicide coming. I don't think he even knew how close to the edge of himself that he truly was.
Yeah. And so, you know, the [00:21:00] last four years it's been a journey of releasing that of releasing Andrew from any responsibility of releasing. For many responsibility of releasing the doctors and the medical professionals from any responsibility and truly seeing his death as a tragedy and truly making peace with the fact that there's no one to blame.
It's not Andrew's fault, it's not my fault. It's not anyone in his family's fault. It's not any of the doctor's faults. I often describe Andrew's suicide, like a child drowning in a swimming pool at a birthday party. He was surrounded by people that loved him, and if we knew that he was drowning, we would've jumped in and saved him.
We just had no idea. Wow. And he had no idea. I believe, truly believe too. And what was super helpful too, is his psychiatrist told after he passed away, you know, even his medical team was shocked. His psychiatrist and his doctor, his doctor was his psychiatrist's daughter, and they had lost, she had lost her sister, so his psychiatrist had lost his daughter [00:22:00] to suicide.
So they, they were familiar with suicide. And they didn't see any of that on Andrew. You know, so they were just as shocked as the rest of us. And I'll never forget his psychiatrist telling us that 90% of suicides are impulsive. 90. Wow. 90% of suicides are impulsive. It's this in the moment, overwhelming flood of pain that none of us saw coming.
And even Anne Voskamp has a beautiful blog that she wrote that talks. Feeling like being trapped in a burning building and the only way to escape the flames is to jump out of the window. And so, you know, a big part of how I've made peace with that too is just realizing that all the only perspective that I have is my own perspective.
Sure. I'll never be able to walk in anybody else's shoes. But my own. And so I truly have no idea what it felt like for Andrew in those final moments of his life. And so who am I to judge or blame or play shame on him? And you know, I think for the healing journey and [00:23:00] moving forward and. Even the way that I talk about his death with my kids and the legacy of his life to be able to help my kids have empathy and compassion for their dad, just like I have empathy and compassion for their dad and to help them see that he fought so hard to stay and that he tried the best that he could to stay.
And for them to truly feel that. I think it takes, you know, me truly being able to heal that part of our story, and so I'm so grateful for the way that God's led me through that and that I've really been able to release a lot of those. What
Tony: I, you guys just pausing this conversation with Kayla to remind you to sign up for the spirit and truth.
Subst Subst is a blog and email. It goes directly to your inbox every single week. I like to put information out there that's spirit led leadership. So if you lead your family, if you lead at work, if you lead. Anywhere and you wanna focus on what it means to be more spirit led, the spirit and truth Subst stack is perfect for you.
You [00:24:00] can sign up by clicking the link in the show notes or to go to Spirit and truth dot subst stack.com. Now let's finish up this conversation with Kayla. So your your first book, if You're Gone Wild, it's kind of a memoir. And, and this second one is about kind. Rebuilding that Beautiful. Chasing After Beautiful is, is one of the lines that I've seen associated with this book a ton.
Before we jump into the book itself, I'm curious how, how do you discern God's voice on when the right time to write about something like this is right? Like cuz I, you know, I think , I've, I've been in the local church for a long time and, and have had a lot of mentors who say, Tony, you know, preach through scars, not through wounds.
And I'm curious about like, how did you know when the right time to write mm-hmm. in a way that would make it healthy for you and for the, for the, for the reader, right? Yeah. Like, it's, cuz it's a, you know, it's a relationship, the reader and the writer. I'm, I'm curious your thoughts on that. [00:25:00]
Kayla: It was just so clear.
It was so clear and God was flinging, open doors, left and right. Wow. You know, for the very first book too, I mean, I did, I wrote that thing fast. I wrote that thing from my wound. I wrote, I wrote that thing with tears streaming down my face. It would be a completely different book if I wrote that book 10 years down the road.
And you know, we had a family blog called God's Got This, that we had started when Andrew's dad was diagnosed Leukemia. In 2000, I think 2011, as a way to communicate the leukemia journey with the church. And we made wristbands and had this whole campaign and we had this living blog that was really just a way to update the church on what was going on so they could pray for Dave.
And after Andrew passed away I started using that blog. To write about the things I was learning about, the things that I was feeling about the grief journey, about suicide, about mental health. And through that God just started opening up doors [00:26:00] like crazy. I was getting messages, Instagram direct messages, emails from other authors and speakers that I greatly admired saying, Hey, I think you're a gifted writer.
If you'd ever wanna write a book, I'd love to help. Here's my phone number. My agent would love to talk to you. You know, like it just, it was just so clear and it was, was just so clear from all angles that I didn't have to go pushing any doors down. The doors were just fing in wide open, and I had to work.
Andrew died by suicide, which meant no life insurance, who opted out Social Security because he was a pastor, so there's no social security, and so I was gonna have to get a job and. No matter what. And so it felt like such a beautiful gift that God was opening up these doors for me to really do the hard work of healing and get paid to do it.
Yeah. And so I, It was an easy yes for me. It was like the most clear yes. That I've ever said. And the second book, you know, those words rebuilding Beautiful, that were born out of [00:27:00] this conversation with one of my girlfriends. Just felt like this as I started sharing them, you know, I started hashtagging, rebuilding beautiful on, on lots of different posts years ago, and as I started using those words, I saw how they were sticking with people.
And even through my own experience of rebuilding my life, it's like I could see how easy it would be to stay stuck in avea, a victim mentality, to stay stuck, camped out in the cemetery. Days stuck in my pain and hide in my pain and let my pain and my tragedy and the horrible thing that happened to me to be my whole identity.
And so, you know, that is who I was thinking of that version of myself. Other people that I know that are. Stuck in that place of pain and they're wondering like, where do, what do I do next? I don't even know where to begin. How do I even begin to dream new dreams? How do I even begin to welcome all that is how do I even begin to dream about what could be, how do I even begin to heal my trauma [00:28:00] and my words?
And I feel like through writing that first book so quickly, I feel like I've been on the fast forward track. Of healing. I feel like God just took me on the fast forward track of healing, and I've learned so much in the last four years because I've been willing to show up and do the hard work because I've been willing to show up and sit at my computer and feel everything I need to feel in order to find the words I needed to find, to write these last two books because I've been willing to say yes to the horrible, terrifying.
You know, things that you have to go through when you're embracing your pain. You know, trying, like having to go sit in a therapist office for an hour every single week and talking about your feelings and talking about your fears and talking about your horrible pain. Just, you know, all the things I feel like.
I just was fast forwarded through a lot of the process and felt like I had a lot to say and a lot to share, and just kept thinking about that person. That's [00:29:00] camped out in the cemetery that the future looks grim. All they can see is their pain and they're wondering like, how do I move forward from here?
Tony: So, so I, I'd love to get kind of a, a definition. What does it mean to chase after beautiful mm-hmm. right? In the midst of, you know, in the midst of what could be appropriately described as utter despair. Yeah. How do we, how do we, how do we take that first step to, to chase after beautiful. Yeah.
Kayla: You know, I think for me it's been being present.
Being as present. As possible to the gift of today. And, you know, losing Andrew, who's only 30 years old when he passed away. So losing him at such a young age just taught me so quickly woke me up to the fact that like nothing is for granted. Life is such a precious, precious. Gift. And so I totally awakened this gratitude in me for just the gift of today, for the little gifts that I [00:30:00] have around me.
This morning I was in my kitchen and I literally said out loud, Let God thank you for this house. Thank you for the food and my pantry. Thank you that I have running water. Thank you for the beautiful work that you've set before me. Thank you that my boys are healthy and they're at school. You know, it's like there are so many things, hundreds of things to be grateful for in every moment of every day.
And. In my healing journey the last four years, just an awareness of that gratitude, an awareness of the gifts that are right in front of me. And it doesn't mean that I am ignoring the pain that I'm not embracing the pain. You know, I think I've learned the last four years that. Pain and joy can coexist.
And it's like this duality that I didn't even know was possible, that I could be in so much pain and so sad. And it's like I carry around with me every single day. This just like, ugh. Just, I can't believe that this is really my life, just like this guttural in my soul like this. Ugh. Like I, [00:31:00] I miss Andrew so much, and I'm so sad every single day that he's not here and I'm watching my boys grow up without their dad and I can't take away their pain.
And for two of my boys now, it's been more than half their life without their. And it's painful and it's lonely. You know, the day in, day out struggles of being a single mom is very painful and very lonely. And so I have all this pain. You know, and it's, it's been this journey of learning how to live with the pain and it's been, pain has been one of the greatest teachers of my life.
And it's been through my pain that I've been able to see the, the gifts threaded. All throughout the reality in front of me. And yeah, I think it's important to, to say that, that it's not the beautiful, doesn't mean there's not pain. And I know that Andrew's death isn't the only hard, painful thing that I'm gonna face in my life.
I'm sure there is plenty more curve balls that are gonna come hurtling my way [00:32:00] as well, and. It's this choice. It's this daily choice to seek after beautiful, to chase after beautiful. To ask God to gimme a vision for my life, to gimme a vision for my future, to give me new dreams. Like, okay, that whole life, this life with Andrew, that I knew where I was going.
I could have told you what, 30 years down the road I thought our life was gonna look like to let go, to welcome what is, and to let go of what. And to fully embrace the reality step before me and to dare to dream again about a new kind of beautiful life. And so I feel like the last four years, you know, that's what I've been doing.
It's this, this dreaming of, of, okay, like Andrew died and that's no longer my life. So what is my life gonna look like here? And. Being willing to take those big leaps to create a new completely different version of beautiful. And for us that took moving. We moved two years ago. We were living after he passed away.
We were still living [00:33:00] within the same city that we lived in together. And so, It felt like everywhere I went, I was reminded of a life that was no longer mine. I couldn't even go to the grocery store without passing the cemetery. I would run into people. My boys went to a little private school and a lot of people at the private school went to our church.
Teachers went to our church, and so it just felt like. I was always gonna be the widow. If I stayed there. I was always gonna be Andrew's widow. And my boys were always gonna be Andrew's kids. And it was always gonna be the sad story that their dad died by suicide and the church was just right down the street.
And so as I was thinking about that and seeing the future and thinking, Okay, we could stay here. and we could have a beautiful life here and we could make it work and it could be fine. And we had family right down the street. We had a great school. My boys were going to, they would've gone to through high school.
But I felt this deep desire in my heart that we needed a fresh start. I felt this deep desire that we had to go and it was really 2020 that, [00:34:00] you know, I really like was the opportunity to go because my boys were already pulled outta school. Everything was already up in the air. And it was like, this is my.
To like totally change our life. And so we moved and it has been the best decision that I could have made for my family. I gave me and my boys back the power of our story. Our story is no longer being told for us. We get to choose when we wanna tell our story, who we wanna tell our story to. We get to totally reshape our story, rebuild our story.
My boys have made a ton of new friends. I've made a ton of new friends, and we. very close to the ocean. And so we're just like doing life outside in God's creation, you know, every single day. I'm just like in awe that I get to live here. It's just such a wonderful, incredible gift that I get to raise my boys so close to the ocean.
And it has been such a healing place for me just to go walk along the sea. And so the beautiful part is so many things. [00:35:00] And it's really usually really scary to chase after those things. Yeah. You know, the, the choice to move for me was terrifying. I was leaving security, I was leaving a house that was paid off.
I was leaving family, I was leaving a great school. But the risk has been so worth the reward and. You know, I'm so grateful for all the lessons. You know, we bought this little house by the ocean and it was a complete fixer upper it like termites had eaten the floor. The underneath the sink in the kitchen was moldy.
The showers leaking and like the outside stucco is crumbling apart, the front yard's, dirt, like, just like this house that needed so much love. And the last two years, me and my boys have been fixing it up together. And there's been so many just hidden gifts even in that, even in like kicking down walls and ripping out floor and ripping out tile and sitting in those spaces and staring at the two by four surrounding me and sitting on the subflow wood subfloor.
[00:36:00] My boys are drawing on the woods. Subfloor and just this perspective of like, oh my gosh, to rebuild our life. It's like this stripping away, it's this stripping down to like the bare bones. I mean, it's like the, this raw, naked, vulnerable feeling when you go through really intense pain. And it's this like total renewal, you know, like literally ripping up floor and installing new floor.
And seeing the, the trans, the transformation of all of it has been such a gift to me in this season because that's what we're doing. You know, we're rebuilding our life while we're rebuilding our house. And there's just so many hidden metaphors, twisted and tangled in all of it, and it's made me Try new things and, and, but I've never, never would've tried before.
It's maybe pick up power tools and, you know, hammers and just all kinds of things that I would've never had the guts to try before. And so I think part of the rebuilding beautiful journey is a willingness to try. You know, it's a willingness to put ourselves out there and knowing [00:37:00] we might fail but knowing that it's worth it to show up and try.
Because we only get one shot at life and I think Andrew's death, you know, Totally just taught me that too. It's like we only get one shot at this life. I only get one shot at raising my boys until they're all grown up and they're men and they're heading off and making their own way in the world.
Like we only get one shot. So to live fully. To chase after. Beautiful. I really enjoy every opportunity that we can and to just be so grateful for the gifts that are in front of us. Yeah, it's so many things. I love
Tony: it. I actually really enjoyed checking out your Instagram with all the construction photos and you, you have such wise words around the photos.
You should, you should go check out on Instagram just for the, the, the captions alone. I, I, I'm curious about your relationship with God through all of that. I would imagine Rollercoaster doesn't quite describe it. How do you how do you [00:38:00] articulate what your walk with the Lord's been like the last four
Kayla: years?
because I was a pastor's wife. I felt like I had to have all the answers. It's like I had God and this tiny box and I thought I knew everything there was to know about Christianity and Jesus and the Bible, and like I just had this tight. Little bow on this little box of God, and it's like Andrew died and that was just burst wide open and it's just totally expanded my view of God.
And it's like now I, The posture that I have isn't a posture of like having all the answers or feeling like I have to have all the answers. Is this posture of, you know what, actually don't know anything, . It's actually all. I actually like the posture that I hold towards my faith towards God now is just this posture of like, awe and surrender and just like, [00:39:00] so Just this like open hands, not clinging to anything and just in awe of the mystery of faith, in awe of God's grace in it all in awe of the life that I used to have and the life that I'm living now in awe of the way that God's carried us.
Through in all of the strength that he's given me every single day, to be able to survive the last four years in all of the courage that he's given me and my boys to face every day without Andrew. You know, it's like so much of our journey has been supernatural. So much of our journey. And, you know, I couldn't, I wouldn't be in the place that I am today without God, without my faith, without the power of the Holy Spirit like, It's just been this journey of complete surrender.
When you don't know, you know what the next day is gonna look like when you're on your face, on the floor, unsure how you're gonna live with the pain for another day. It's like complete surrender of like, God, I literally can't do this without you. I [00:40:00] literally can't get up tomorrow and survive another day with this really intense pain and these three little boys that are super demanding.
Without you, I need your supernatural intervention. I need your supernatural strength, your supernatural peace, your supernatural Love to pour out of me because I can't do this on my own. . And so it's been this complete and utter surrender and dependence on God like never before. And he's just shown up in every possible way.
You know, it wasn't just the book that he placed in my lap. It was so many little miracles that happened along the way that brought us to the place we are today. And I just get to sit back and ave the mystery of it all and like, God is so good. And that verse, the Lord is, is close to the broken hearted and comforts.
Who our Christian spirit is just so true. He's been so close. He's been so good. He's carried us through all of it, and I'll never understand why he allowed Andrew's death to be filtered through his hands. I'll never understand why he allowed suicide, [00:41:00] why, why he allowed depression. But I trust him.
And he's been so good and he hasn't left us and he hasn't abandoned us. And he's really carried us through and opened door after door, after door after door for our healing.
Tony: That's beautifully said. I have one more, two more questions for you. The, the first one I, I was wondering if you might just Give a word could, There's a lot of people who are listening who go to church and they're looking at their pastor and they have no idea of how hard or tough it's been, especially with Covid.
And I mean, I'm sure you've heard all the stories in, in your line of work. Could, could you, if you were to give a message to a church congregation about how to care for their pastor I'm wondering if you might, if you might share a few words there.
Kayla: You know, I think the biggest thing is just remembering your pastor.
Is human , [00:42:00] but they're not like super human. They don't have like super special connection with God. Like they are just as human as the rest of us. And so yeah, they're just as prone to mistakes and mess up and downfalls as the rest of us. And so just having that grace and extending that grace and being quicker to extend grace than you are to criticize.
I. So easy to fill out a comment card or send that email and criticize something they said from stage or criticize the shoes that they wore or criticize the way they did their hair. You know, it's like really silly. The things that come in on comment cards. It's like pretty ridiculous that things that come in on comment cards, but being quicker to extend grace and to remember that your pastor is a human being, which means they're totally not gonna get it right a hundred percent of the time, just like we're not gonna get it right.
A hundred percent of the. and to know that, you know, it's, it is a lot and the Sundays do keep [00:43:00] on coming and it's a great sacrifice to be a pastor. I mean, Andrew sacrificed a lot of time away from his family to serve the church and he wouldn't have had it any other way. And he left a be beautiful legacy and he was so gifted and incredible.
But it was a great sacrifice. And so I think praying for your pastors is huge. I think supporting the pastor's wife is also huge and loving her and encouraging her. Mm-hmm. and extending grace towards her and seeing her as a real human being too. And when her kids are having to fit in the parking lot or, you know, whatever is happening.
She's speeding on her way to church cuz she's running late, Like just extending grace upon grace. Upon grace upon. And my, you know, Andrew used to say often that it's lonely at the top, and so I think just Helping your pastor to feel seen, to feel loved, to feel encouraged to feel like a real human being that they [00:44:00] are, you know, is, can be just such a gift.
I think Andrew really struggled to find the space And just the vulnerability within himself to to be vulnerable, to be real and to have, you know, close friends. He was a very private person and had a very small, small, small circle. And that small circle was mostly his family. And so, you know, I think as much as you can to try to just support and love.
If you're on like the lead staff team, if you're close, if you have the opportunity to be in that small tight circle with somebody that's a pastor you know, having those vulnerable conversations, creating space for them to be open and honest about how they're really doing without judgment. You know, I think oftentimes Andrew was afraid to share how he was really doing.
I, we, we had a small group that he had formed, you know, on his own. I think sometimes he was afraid to share how he was really doing because he didn't wanna show vulnerability. He didn't wanna people to think you didn't have it all together. Cause he felt this pressure. If I'm the [00:45:00] lead pastor of this church, that means I have to have it all together.
And so if you're a lead pastor and you're listening, I just wanna encourage you. You don't have to have it all together. Actually, we want you to not have it all together because that means that you're just as human as the rest of. You know, it's like, Amen. We're all broken. We're all broken. We all fall short.
We all mess up. We all make mistakes. So I think it just goes back to grace. Grace upon grace upon grace upon.
Tony: Yeah. I love that. Love that. Okay. I have one more question for you, but before I ask it, I know my followers and and friends are gonna wanna follow you on the internet. Where's the best place to learn, learn about all things, Kayla?
Yeah. And, and what you're
Kayla: doing there. I'm the most active on Instagram and my Instagram handle is Kayla stick my website's, kayla stick line.com. And we can connect that way too.
Tony: and we'll link to all that in the show notes. Of course. Okay, last question. I always love to ask people, it's an advice question.
I'm gonna ask you to go back to a specific moment in your life and give you a one piece of advice [00:46:00] knowing everything that you know now. And I, I'd like to take you back to the day after your wedding day, if you could pull up , if you could pull up a chair in front of that younger version of you and look at yourself sit, need a knee and look deep into your eyes, what's the one piece of advice you're giving that young woman?
Mm-hmm.
Kayla: I think it would be to be present to the gift of today. To not try to rush. Life to not try to figure it all out, to not put so much pressure on yourself
to trust yourself,
to lean into God, and to take time to fill up your cup because it's gonna be a long road. [00:47:00]
Tony: Yeah. That's so good. Thank you. Thank you for your generosity and your vulnerability and your authenticity and just your willingness to share such an important story one that we all need to hear. So from the bottom of my heart thank you.
Kayla: Thanks for having me. It's been an honor to be here.
Tony: What a beautiful gift. Her vulnerability and her willingness to be authentic with her story, I think. Man, I was blessed by our conversation and I hope and pray you were too. I also really hope that if you know someone out there who needs some help, that you're courageous enough.
And walking with them in that journey, it doesn't always turn out the way we want to. But it's important for us to show up and be present. Guys, if if this conversation's meaningful to you, if you enjoyed what you heard today, hit that subscribe button, shared this episode with a friend. I'm always thankful.
To have each and every one of you [00:48:00] in this community. Without you, this wouldn't be any fun, . And it's fun with you. We get to share powerful moments like this. So guys, we'll see you next week as we continue the conversation. And remember, if you wanna follow Jesus, you must be willing to move.
