#191: Tim Ferrara: Eyes on Jesus
Tim Ferrara wants to help you refocus your life and your actions on Jesus.
In our conversation, we talk about his diverse career, disciple-making, and discernment.
I know you are going to love this conversation!
Full Transcripts: www.twmilt.com/episodes
Links:
EP. 191
Tony: [00:00:00] Hey everybody. Welcome back to the reclamation podcast, where our goal is to help you reclaim good practices for following Jesus. If we haven't met yet, my name is Tony and I'm your host. After spending over a decade in the local church, I want to help you connect with Jesus at a deeper, more personal and intimate level.
Today on the podcast is author, pastor and speaker. Pastor Tim Ferrera, pastor Tim is an incredible voice for anyone who's wrestling with discernment. What does discernment mean? What's it look like? How does it play out in our. Tim has some great wisdom to offer on this topic. We're gonna jump into that.
We're gonna jump into his latest resource eyes on Jesus and his you version, Bible plan every day, discernment, the importance of spirit led deci decision making. I think you're gonna love Tim and his voice and go subscribe to his [00:01:00] podcast. It's full of great wisdom. You can go back and listen to a whole bunch of episodes there.
I think you're gonna absolutely enjoy and appreci. This conversation with pastor Tim. And if you do enjoy it, do me a favor hit that subscribe button where you ever listen to podcasts, leave a rating, a review on iTunes or Spotify. Every rating that you leave gets read. And I deeply appreciate it, cuz it does help share the word about what God is doing on this platform.
Now, without any further ado, let's jump into my conversation with pastor Tim. Hey everybody. Welcome back to the podcast. I'm excited today to have fellow podcaster, author and pastor Tim Ferrara on the podcast. Tim, thank you so much for being here today,
Tim: Tony. My pleasure. So good to be with you. How are you doing?
Tony: I'm doing good, man. And I, I want to dive into all of the things, including one of your latest resources, but I always like to kind of start off from a macro perspective. You have an MBA, you live in Arizona, you're an executive pastor at a church. You podcast, you write, [00:02:00] you do a lot of different things.
How would you describe the calling that God has placed on your life?
Tim: Hmm. Good question. So, yeah, for me, I grew up in the church pastor's kid you know, And went to the business world out of college and went to retail, manage retail stores for many, many years longer than I'd like to, to say. But I like to say God delivered me from that life because I was burned out ready to, especially in a year like 20, 20, ready for something else.
And back in 2018, God really put a passion on my heart to do full-time ministry. But I started off with a ministry called discerning dad, which is my website oversight. And started blogging started it was really one Sunday where I had like a download from heaven. I felt, you know, with the name, the title, the logo, and I just went home and started journaling and had all these long term visionary things like, you know, started podcast, write books and sure enough over time, you know, it was a slow journey of like, Google, how to blog, how to [00:03:00] start a website and then just over time just started growing, started doing some awesome things that God put in my path and, and really, I didn't see it at the time, but this was an equipping season while I'm still working in retail to be able to do what I do today, which is be an executive pastor at an awesome church and use my business knowledge, which an executive pastor basically is like the.
Chief operating officer of a, of a church, you know, be able to handle vendors and finances and also social media, which is that's one thing where I almost gave up in 2018. Literally almost downloaded the apps off or deleted the apps off, off of my phone. And God was calling me back to social media.
And so to. To put some, some light and some, you know, whether it's just a scripture or whether it's just a quick video. And so that's been kind of the ministry platform I focused on and now I'm able to do that at my church. And so really, I, I like to call God's calling upon my life as just one open door at a time.
Not being able to see the next door and, and very often, most of the time, that's how God. Moves us forward in the calling he has for us. And the purposes he has for us is just by [00:04:00] our yes. Saying yes to the one thing and then use it as a training and equipping. And now God can be like, all right.
Here's, here's a little more, here's a little more, because too often we look at people that have a platform and we're like, Hey, I want that now. But we don't get to see the process that they took to get there. And so we have to be careful that we don't just wish for something that we don't have instead of focused on what is God showing me today in the season I'm in, because seasons don't last forever.
And so if we're listening to God and having discernment about hearing his voice, we're able to move forward in, in the plans he has for us, which are always better than our own.
Tony: Amen. There's there's a lot there to drill down on. I'm gonna start on a selfish thing first. Yes. I have three kids and obviously I'm a pastor and I've been pastoring.
What would you say is the number one thing that your parents did to keep you in a relationship with the Lord? Cuz I don't want any of the stereotypical pastors kids. My oldest is 16 and my youngest is 10. Two boys and a princess. Yeah. [00:05:00] What's the one thing that I should be doing right now to make sure they stay in love with Jesus.
Tim: man. That's a good question. Cuz pastor's kids have that, you know, stigma of either being super over spiritual or then leaving the church altogether and there's these extremes that oftentimes they fall into. And so, yeah, that's my heart too, for my kids. I think the biggest thing I can point to my parents doing is, is focusing on my, my own relationship with God and allowing me to ask questions and to challenge things and not just dragging me to church and be like, you're gonna sit there.
You're gonna like it. But encouraging my own quiet time. Like I remember when I was 13, some of the best quiet times I would have, I would come home from school. I would grab a bull full of Cheetos, grab my cat, go in my room and just read the Bible for 30, 45 minutes. And it wasn't anything that was, I mean, it was encouraged, but it was something that I, I felt joy in doing.
And I, I look back at those times, it's like, man, Some of the best times with my own relationship with God that I can remember. And, and so that's what I would love to [00:06:00] see from, from my kids or any, any quote pastor's kid or just kid in general is that, you know, that Jesus becomes real to them through their own relationship, not through the church, not through their parents, which are good resources to learn, but from their own relationship, because what happens when the church falls apart, what happens when the parents are no longer in their life?
What happens when they're 21, 22 on their own. Can they fall back on the foundation that was laid and the relationship that they have on their own with Jesus that isn't reliant upon someone else?
Tony: That's really good. I, I think it also leans into another part of the answer. That you gave about seasons.
And so I, I was hoping that you might talk to us a little bit about seasons and discernment. And I think discernment is a word that if you grew up in the church, you know, but maybe some of us don't. So how would you define discernment and how do you know if you're good at it?
Tim: Yeah, that's good. So I mean, you can take the spiritual gifts test, which tells you if you're good in discernment, but those may not tell you very much.
So [00:07:00] discernment for me was one of the things when I started discerning dad, I, I didn't see discernment talked about very much other than maybe Catholic circles where priests talked about it, or especially in the new age, if you search for the hashtag discernment, that comes up a lot in the new age. But discernment in the Bible really means.
In, in my mind, it decision making that honors God, and I call it spirit infused decision making because with the holy spirit in us, we're able to make decisions along our path that lead us down a path of blessing that God has for us, instead of trying to do it in our own effort. And then asking for forgiveness later from God, instead of saying, okay, God, you'd be the one that goes before me before I make this decision.
Whether how big or how small the decision is. I wanna put God in the mix. I wanna pray as the Bible says, Ceasing. So that means as I'm angry with the kids about to lash out, I'll take five seconds and be like, all right, God, help me in this moment to make a decision that honors you and shows my kids your love instead of my anger that I'm feeling.
And I think about it, like, you know, the matrix when Neo goes back and the bullets fly past, and it's like in slow motion, like at any point in our day, [00:08:00] we can have that slow motion moment where we're allowing the holy spirit. Help us and convict us when we're angry on the road, right. Or when we just want to take it out on a coworker or any of those things, when we slip back into sin, like those are moments, those are all can be divine moments where God allows us to use his way and not our way.
And so discernment basically is doing God's will in our life consistently. And after you make the most decision important decision in your life, which is salvation, then what happens? I feel like. The church itself does a disservice to people when they would rather count hands, instead of holding those hands forward in discipleship going forward, you know, instead of just like, Hey, we had all these salvation, okay, well, what are you doing about them now?
Wow. I don't know. We just have our numbers boosted. Like we have to be careful about that mindset that just wants people in the door without helping them down the path. And so I think that's why discernment every day, which is why I called my book every day. Discernment. We need to take Jesus with us in our work, in our marriage, in our finances, in our social media time, our entertainment time, [00:09:00] all those things where we're spending our time.
And there's nothing wrong with, you know, casually watching a movie for two hours on Netflix. But at the same time, if you struggle to find 10 minutes to read the Bible, there's a problem in your priorities. .
Tony: So I, I think that, that you talk quite a bit about this idea of, of hearing God's voice. And so I always like to ask people, how do you know when it's God's voice versus the burrito you ate yesterday or the Cheetos, or, you know, whatever.
Right. I, I think there are so many of us who want to say, yes, this is God, but also we're so scared to be wrong. Yeah. How, how do you live in that tension? And, and then say, okay, you know what? This is God, and this is what I'm gonna.
Tim: Yeah, that's, that's a good question too. And I, I talk about three sources of discernment, the number one being the Bible, the inspired word of God, that's, that's relevant more today than ever.
And it likes to get a back door in a lot of circles now where it's like, oh, it's just a good book, but it is God's word to us. It's how we know who God is. If without the [00:10:00] Bible, you just make up your own God. And so discernment really comes down to Is it biblical? Is it something that's commanded of me?
Is it something that God, maybe even just revealed to me this morning, as I'm reading a verse through the, in, through the holy spirit inside of me, you know how you read that same verse over and over and all of a sudden it pops out on the page right before you go to a meeting right before you have a decision to make.
And God's speaking to you through the Bible. That's why it's a living and active word of God. So the, Bible's our number one source of discernment and the holy spirit inside of us and those quickening moments where you can just listen and get that peace or get that direction that you could not get in your own wisdom.
And the third source is godly relationships. People that God's put in your life for a reason that are there to give you wisdom, maybe even beyond your years, you know, we should always be. Being discipled by somebody and also discipling someone else, cuz we're always along that path where someone knows more than we do.
And then we know more than someone else. So having godly relationships is important. Someone you can share, Hey, I'm going through this. I wanna make this decision. What do you think about it? And then they, they can come with, with wisdom and be like, Hey, I was in the same [00:11:00] boat and this is what I, I did. This is what I did wrong.
And, and I think we discount the fact of being in community. Sometimes in the church where I go to church and I see people and I know a few names, but actually being in accountability is a different, a different thing altogether where you're actually vulnerable. I mean, as guys we know, if you just walk up to guys, you're like, Hey, how's it going?
I'm good. Hey, what you catch the game. You wanna go play golf? Like we. Don't get deep too often. I think we do ourselves a disservice and it doesn't mean you have to go around, obviously cry and telling every guy your problems, but you should have a community of guys that you can pour into. And I didn't have that for many years.
And I have one now where four or five guys, we meet once a month and we just say, Hey, what's going on in, in spiritually. What's going on in your family? What's going on at work. And we really have that, that forum to allow us to go deeper. Because if you don't have intentionality around community, it just won't happen.
And if 2020 taught us anything, it's that isolation can lead to depression and lead to all kinds of things. If we just figure we can just do it on our, [00:12:00] by ourselves, be a lone warrior Christian and God has called us to community. He loves his church and we should not forsake the gathering, not just because we're called to, but because we.
Tony: that's great. Now I was taking notes and somehow, or another I missed the second point. Was it Bible? Spirit
Tim: relationships. Yeah. Bible. Holy spirit. Godly relationships.
Tony: Okay, good. I just wanna make sure I have my notes right here. Mm-hmm I, I figure somebody else is probably taking notes too. So I wanna get super practical.
You left a, a career outside of the church to move into vocational ministry. And so I was wondering if you could take us through the steps that you were like, okay, I'm gonna give up a very successful. Career what I went to school for kind of like all the things yeah. And decided to take a step into the local church.
Can you, if you could run us through kind of that Bible spirit relationships model in that story, I think that might be super helpful for someone who might be discerning a call in their own life.
Yeah.
Tim: Yeah, no, I'd love to. And I think for me personally, it came [00:13:00] at a time when, like I said, God was already preparing me already preparing my heart for more.
And so I would just say off the bat, God's timing is so important. If you try to do something before God is ready for you to do it, or before you're ready to do it, then you, it can lead to failure. And so sometimes God will put a vision in your heart. That's five, 10 years down the road. Right. And, and it takes an equipping season to get there.
But also don't, don't neglect it. Don't abandon it. If God's put it on your heart, you know, look for those open doors where it can take you down that path. I think about an Anais who prayed for Paul. Who has solved the time Saul went blind on the road you know, as he's blind and an IAS goes over to him and, and, and God commands him to go pray for him.
And by him praying for him, the scales fall off his eyes. And I was thinking about this recently, how you know that timing if Hannah and I went to go pray for Saul a week earlier, when he's out killing Christians, right. He would've put his own life in danger. But by listening to God and doing it when he commanded him to, it led to a path of, okay, now [00:14:00] you're now you have Paul who writes over half the new Testament and Anais was used in that moment to be a part of God's great plan.
And so that's why, again, timing is so important. And so for me you know, I got the opportunity in the summer of 2020, and it really led me down a journey. Prayer and fasting big decisions like this. I would just encourage people not to rush. There are some decisions you need to make on the fly, but for the most part in those big decisions, like a, a job change, a move, a marriage, those kinds of things, make sure that you know, that you know, that you know that you're not just doing it in your own knowledge.
And so for me, I, I took time. My wife kind of knew right away that we should. And
Tony: so man, wifes always seem to know
Tim: right away, don't they? And so, and she, even, she even said, you can stay where you're at, but God, I feel like God's saying that if you take this job as a pastor, that you're gonna know God in a more intimate level than ever before, I was like, wow, that's powerful.
Like that. God would [00:15:00] still bless me both ways, but there's a, a greater blessing if I follow his will. And. You know, I even did like the Gideon thing where I had a, some fleeces and put them before God and waiting on God. And it was just funny. Like, I, I, I don't recommend that as a source of discernment, but Hey, you know, if, if God wants to do it, like, why not?
Right. He's gonna do it. Yeah. He's gonna do it might as well. It doesn't hurt to ask. And so, and for me too, like, there's so many factors when I would like do the budget or do my own thinking and I didn't factor on the God factor cuz a lot of times we're like, well here's a, B and C. But God sometimes has a D F and G all the way down the alphabet, you know, like we don't factor on.
Yeah. And so that's what, for me, like there was just even after I made the decision, there was blessing that that came, that I wasn't even part of the picture when I was doing my decision making, because I said yes, to, to what God had for me. And that's really led me down just a, a greater time in my life where I'm able to be used for full-time ministry.
And and we can talk about vocational ministry and how [00:16:00] everyone's called a ministry, which is true. But for me personally, you know, selling toilet paper for all those years was not something that was really fulfilling me in, in the long run. And so to be able to do that now have more time with my family to be able to do the online ministry I'm doing and that kind of stuff has just been a great.
Tony: so I, I have a huge respect for executive pastors. My first church was a, a larger church that has executive pastors. A lot of churches don't have executive pastors. And I can tell you that all of those pastors want one . I, I think you're in a unique position, cuz you can see things from both a a, a very realistic kind.
World. And then the also business minded world. And then also the, the church world you've got hundreds, if not thousands of people listening who go to church, what as an executive pastor, do you want to tell churchgoers that they don't know. Regularly, like, what are some of the behind the scenes baseball that if you could like shake [00:17:00] into your congregation, that you would like to say, cause I'm sure that there's something in there that's like always just, well, I mean, I'm, I clearly did, this is turned into a therapy session for me, but you, I, I mean, what are some of the things that you like wish church goers is word no.
Or realize?
Tim: Well, I think from a very practical standpoint, being that I, I see the finances is that. Sure. And like, if you, people will gladly complain if you know, a live stream doesn't work or if the air conditioning's not on, but all those things, the, the salary for people, the coffee, the free coffee that you get, the, the air conditioning all that stuff costs money.
right. And so I think it's important to know that where your money's going and churches should be as transparent as they can be about, you know, what, what money's going to missions and that kind of stuff. And we give over 10% emissions, but. 80 plus percent that is going to practical things. The church needs the building that you come to, the, the, the body that, that serves the community that gives in benevolence that funds the people [00:18:00] that you love at the church and allows 'em to do what they do.
Like. that's all real stuff. Right. And mm-hmm, unfortunately there is a business aspect to churches that just to keep them running. And I think sometimes people just feel like, well, if I give my money, I just wanna know it's all gonna go to missions or it's all gonna go to this. It's like, well, yeah, but you come.
There's also this belief too, that churches are funded by the state and online. I see that on TikTok or that I dunno, there's all these misconceptions. I would just say financially, give to God where you feel that you're called to go and, and let the church be able to use it as they will. And we know that tides are part of our worship to God.
It's not that we should micromanage our finances to the point where we feel in control, because then that doesn't give God control. So by giving at least 10% back to God in some form, I think that's so important just to be able to say, God, it's not mine, it's yours, and God can do more with you 90%.
And you can do it through a hundred percent. I like to say. And I've heard said before and so. I don't know, just tithing is one of those things. And I've, I've, I, I can say that too, because I've done that. [00:19:00] And I've seen God's hand upon my life financially by just giving that first fruits back to God.
And I think that's so important and the legalist will get all upset. Like, oh, well, we're not called to do that anymore. Or like, whoa, why can't I give 5% it, you know, just enough with that nonsense. Like, what is God putting on your heart? Give out of that. But don't, don't look where you can short change God, by, by focusing on percent.
Yeah,
Tony: I'm here for that. It, it takes every time we turn on the lights. Yeah. People have no idea how much money it costs. right. Exactly. So many things. And it's so many things and they're old. Well, in my case, it was an old building and it was that church has been there since 1833. So everything leaks. Yeah.
All the time. Right. Like so I, I feel your pain on that.
Tim: And I would say too, just real quick other things I would tell churchgoers. That churches need your talents and your gifts. Like you may not think that you have any, but God has placed gifts and talents in every single person. Every single person has them.
And the Bible even says God before the beginning of the world, God, [00:20:00] for foresaw and for, for ordained the gifts that we would do, that the, the, the things that we would do. And so I would say that whether it's serving coffee, greeting at the door, giving someone a high five, watching the, the newborns, right.
There's there's so. That is a blessing to the church body that your church is dying for you to do. If you're not already plugged in, they it's never that they have enough volunteers. I, I guarantee not a single church in this country has enough. Volunteers are always looking for somebody to step up.
Tony: Yeah. I, I actually think serving like that is a part of our disciplines. And one of the things that we say around here a lot is that if you're not dedicated to your disciplines, you'll be destroyed by your distractions. Great. I love. and I, it's actually a perfect segue into your latest resource, which is the, the eyes on Jesus 90 day discernment, devotional.
Yeah. And so I wanna jump into this a little bit, but I kind of wanna start with how did you know when God was like, okay, Tim, I want you to write a book and I want it to be a devotional and, and [00:21:00] kind of take us through that process of like, I mean, cuz writing is a very vulnerable thing. Yeah. And so.
yeah. Kind of take us down that
Tim: journey. Yeah. And for me personally, I'm not someone who enjoys to write. I don't write for fun. I don't just write random things that I never goes anywhere. Like for me when, when I started blogging, it really came from man. I have this thing that just has to come out, that I have, that God is placed upon me that I couldn't stop thinking about.
And so that would come through in a blog in my first book, everyday discernment, like I wrote that. in about probably three to four months. Like I just couldn't stop writing. And after it was over, I'm like, I don't ever wanna write again, like , that's how, that's, how it came and went just so fast. And that's how I knew for me, it was God, because the passion I had and just like the download to do it.
Was something way out of my comfort zone way out of something I enjoy even doing. And same thing for I on Jesus devotional. Like I started with a 14 day [00:22:00] devotional and I was like, man, I have, I have a 30 day in mind. And it just grew to 90 where I just kept coming up with stories and, and most of them are like my personal stories.
Like I have a Bible verse and then I kind of kind of tied into a personal story, whether my, my world in retail or just something silly around the house that I, I kind of relate to the Bible verse that I bring. And really the focus of it being a discernment devotional is how can you make a decision today that honors God in this area?
And so it's, I try to keep it kind of practical lighthearted shorter on, you know, the commitment level per day. You know, something as silly as my lawnmower not working. And I was so frustrated with the design of the lawnmower, cuz the handle kept falling off. I'm like, how can someone make a lawnmower like this?
And. Turns out that I didn't read the manual and there was a little screw that you had to put in the side of the handle to keep it secure. And once I added one screw to the mix, the handle was fine. And so the, the point is that the Bible being the, the word of God are, are, are quote, manual for living.
We don't [00:23:00] read it. And then we get mad at God. How could you do this? How do you, how do you, how did you design a world of pain? Well, if we don't understand it from God's perspective that he's given us in the Bible, then yeah, we're gonna get frustrated.
Tony: Hey guys, just PAing this conversation with Tim to remind you about the ministry that God is doing at spirit and truth.
We've got a brand new resource out that I want you to hook up. It's called our subst stack block. So it's spirit and truth dot subst stack.com. You can go there and get a whole bunch of blogs written about spirit led leadership. I know you're gonna love it. Check it out. You can look us up spirit and truth.subst.com.
Now what I need further due, let's finish up this conversation with pastor Tim. When in your walk with Christ, did you start to see the world through a biblical worldview? And, and let me kind of elaborate on that. I, I think when somebody like you who can write and, and is a good communicator and you begin to take everyday events and put them to the lens of [00:24:00] Jesus.
Yeah. I, I think a lot of people who are following Christ who are probably listening right now, they're like, I, I wanna see Jesus in my lawnmower. Like I wanna see Jesus at the gym. I wanna see Jesus in my kids. Yeah. You know, when did that switch kind of kick on for you? Was there was there a formula to, it was there, when was it like, oh, you know what?
This, this is something that God might be trying to teach
Tim: me. Mm. I would credit my dad for that, you know, he grew up and, and we'd go hiking and he would see something in the trees that God would speak to him about, you know, maybe or, and we'd go hiking in the mountains or the, the forest. And there'd always be something in nature.
He would point to that God was showing him or that he would see just kind of, Hey, see how God made that. And then God's with us today. Like he would just relate things very practically to me growing up. And so I think that's kind of how I got it, where I'm just like, okay, even if we're out doing something fun and relaxing, we can still take God with us.
And he would encourage us when we go hiking, like, Hey, take 10 minutes right now, go find a [00:25:00] quiet spot and just pray. And so I think it was really modeled for me. And so as I got, you know, older in life and seeing kids myself, you know, you see the parallels with like, oh man, I'm a parent. And I'm frustrated with my.
Oh, that's how God's so frustrated with us. Like, we're just these little brat kids who want our own way. Like, there's so many awesome parallels with parenting or, and how we work as unto the Lord. And I think if we don't do that, then we can Le it leads to frustration that can be avoided. And I love how you talk about distractions, because there's a lot of things in this life that distract us, just like take the news.
For example, if you see. Trauma in this world and tragedy that you see all the time. If you don't have a biblical lens for that, just lead you down a path of depression where you have no hope. Like you put, start putting your hope in what I can gain in this world. Or you start putting your hope in. God forbid the government, like then yeah, you're gonna start to those hopes are gonna be shattered when those, those things fail you.
And, and so not having a biblical lens on. [00:26:00] The bad things in this world can lead us down a path where we just feel hope less. And there's also good strategy, I think, around not jumping into those fears when you don't need to be so for good, good example for me, like on social media some people give it up completely, which is totally fine if God's calling you to do that.
But for me, like I had to start unfollowing news. Because I would go on like Facebook and start reading all the news articles for the day. And I would just start getting this depression in my soul and I was like, what's happening? And I was like, oh yeah. When I jump on social media and I start seeing these articles and I start starts my day off wrong.
So I think we really have to look at what is, what is hurting our soul. What is, where do we need time backed with our creator? And I love John Eldridge, cuz he really talks a lot about this. He has an app called pause where you just get in the app. And he had a 30 day thing that I went through and every morning and night you take 10 minutes and you just pause and, and give the date to God.
And I would encourage everyone to do that. Whether you think it's a good idea or not just to try it because there is something to that [00:27:00] where we. You know, we go and go and go. And he even said like, people are going through trauma right now, going through our last couple years, there is trauma in our soul that we need to recover.
And if we expect to make good decisions and live a godly life, we have to be connected to the source of our actual life, which is Jesus. And then we only do that by disconnecting from the world and reconnecting with. so,
Tony: Let's drill down on that a little bit more because you mentioned the 30 days with the, the 10 and 10 and the pause app, which I I've I've used and great app.
I strongly recommend it. What are some of the practices that you do now, or have sustained over time that keep you connected to the source and. I always love to ask as well, not only you, but anything for your marriage or for your kids, or like, what are some of the, like the, the cornerstones of your walk with
Tim: Christ?
Yeah. And I wrote about this recently too. I have a, a U version Bible plan called focus on the fundamentals and I saw some interesting parallels with [00:28:00] the armor of God and things that we should do every day. So, you know, when you think about fundamentals, and daily practices, which is, I know something you talk about, there's you know, this mindset that, okay.
I accepted Christ and now when I need something, I'll come to him in prayer, or I'll just show up to church when I, when I feel like it. But if you look at fundamentals for like sports, for example, Mm, like they do the same thing over and over, and I play basketball and it's always layups and free throws and practicing dribbling and passing over and over.
And what do you see them do at the NBA finals before they play their game? They practice the fundamentals, even at the higher level that they want to be at. They're still doing the basic things that they started with. And I think as Christians too, we have to look at, there are fundamental things. That we have to do as Christians.
And they're not optional. You don't go in the military and your commanding officer gives you, okay. Do these drills and, and do all this stuff they do in basic training. And just be like, eh, I don't feel like it I'll do it. I'll do it once a week when I feel like it. [00:29:00] No, we don't do that to the people that have authority over us in this world.
Why would we do that to God? And I think there's some great things in the armor of God. And, and now the armor of God is something that you know, you can pray over yourself. You know, if you're Pentecostal, you look in the mirror and you pray over each piece over yourself as you look in the mirror. But I think there's some practical truths around it too.
So for example, like, you know, the, the belt of truth, right? Well, what is the belt of truth? I don't have a belt. What do I do? Well the belt of truth. It, when you think about truth, Pilot said to Jesus, what is truth? And if you look at culture, you, it's hard to know what truth is now. So when you remind yourself of truth, when you, when you read the Bible, when you remind yourself daily, the truth of your identity in Christ I think the reminding ourselves of truth is so important.
And just to go through them all quickly, like, you know, fundamental too. I talk about the breast P of breast plate of re of righteous. I think when we think about God's righteousness over us, that comes to repentance. We have to repent when we do things wrong because when we think of God's righteousness and how [00:30:00] Christ covers us in righteousness, then when we mess up, we have to go come boldly to the throne of grace.
As the Bible says to God, who's our heavenly father who will gladly forgive us, but we also have to not forget about repentance. Another one is the, the shoes readiness to proclaim the gospel. I mean, sharing the gospel. Is a fundamental of our faith because when we do it, we are encouraged as much, as much as we're encouraging someone else as Jude calls it, snatching them outta the fire.
We can't just be these Christians that, okay. I have this awesome, awesome testimony, which I would say any of your testimonies are awesome. Regardless if you are on drugs or not. If you were in church your whole life, you have an awesome testimony of God's faithfulness over your life. And so use that testimony.
And it's not just a one time thing of my testimony of salvation, but the testimony where God healed you, of something where God delivered you from something last week, it doesn't have to just be a salvation thing. You can give testimonies of God's goodness in your life at any point. And so don't neglect, sharing the gospel.
The shield of faith, right? We need a faith. We live by faith, not by sight. The [00:31:00] Bible says, and so without faith, it's also impossible to please God. And so we have to renew ourselves in faith, not just that I have faith in God, but I'm actually gonna put my faith into practice, which will lead to the good works that I'm gonna give my neighbor and show them the love of Christ.
And then finally, the helmet of S. The word of God, which is the only actual weapon itself in the armor is the Bible is our, is the sort of, the spirit is something that we take with us that we memorize. We get the word inside of us so that when, when we need that time, where we're in, in the moment of anger or frustration, we can remember the word of God.
Maybe it's a Bible verse. You read that day. I, like it said this way is that I don't remember what I ate last month, but it nourished me in the moment. And so if you're in the word daily, it nourishes you in the moment where you, if you need it in the moment, it's there available to you by quickening of the holy spirit.
And finally, all that is done through prayer at the end of the armor of God, it says, and all things pray. And so that kind of capstones, it puts it all together in a nice package that we can remember as part of our fundamentals daily as Christians [00:32:00]
Tony: O one of the interesting things that I see when I study.
That Ephesians six passage is that that the majority of the armor of God, like you said, with the exception of the sort the, the word is defensive. Yeah. And, and so part, part of what I've always thought, and I'm kind of looking for like, correct me if I'm wrong here. But part of what I've always thought is that when we put on the armor of God, what we're standing in, the victory that God has already won for us.
Mm-hmm how, how do we, how do we keep. Well, first of all, agree, disagree. And then second of all, how do we keep. Armor on regularly. Is, is it just being in the word daily or is, does it go back to kind of the three kind of frameworks, Bible, spirit relationships? What are your thoughts
Tim: on all that? My thoughts on that are that there are practices we need to do daily.
And so I, I don't think it's, it's a one size fits all thing. Like, okay. You have to read your Bible for this many minutes, pray for this many minutes, do it at [00:33:00] this time of day. Like that's your own personal conviction with your schedule with your season of life? Like if you have five young kids at home, like good luck, like maybe five minutes is your goal.
Right, right. Do do whatever you can, but also don't neglect it where you're just like, well, I can't do it. And then day goes by and weeks, go by months, go by. And you wonder why things come up again or sin creeps in again. And so it is something we have to. A focus on it is something that yes, we rest in the power of God that the grace that was given to us, the righteousness we have in Jesus, but we also don't rest on the couch because there are things for us to do.
There are places for us to go people for us to reach as we are the hands and feet of Jesus. Yeah. And there's, there's, there's too many Christians that just, oh, I'm good. I have my insurance card to heaven. I can just do whatever I want now. And there's you know, a, a, I call it , you know, the level of grace where grace covers everything, including my sin that I just do so willfully without a state of repentance.
And then there's the other end where like, I can never do enough to be accepted by Christ and it's a legalism battle. [00:34:00] And so there's a balance in between just like most things in the Bible. There's usually a balance in the middle where men choose an extreme side one or the other. And so we have to remember yet, yes, we are covered.
We don't have to fear losing our salvation, but at the same time, if I. If I grieve my heavenly father, I should come to him say, God, I'm sorry. Would you forgive me? Would you, would you cover me in your, in your love again? And that heart, like, I know the difference when my kids repent because they know they're punished and they won't get their technology back if they've repent or if they do so in the heart that says, no, I, I really recognize what I did is wrong.
And you know, for just coming and checking off a box, God sees our heart and he is more concerned with our heart. And even our actions, like he, he he's concerned more you know, the Bible says he's more concerned with our heart than obedience than sacrificed, you know, back when Saul sacrificed the animal, instead of waiting for Samuel, you know, he did a good thing by sacrificing and asking for God's direction before battle.
The problem was his heart [00:35:00] was not obedient. It was not waiting for Samuel as he was commanded. And so he tried to take things in his own. So when we try to take things in our own hands, instead of waiting on God, waiting on his direction, God sees our heart. And, and that's ultimately what he cares about because he loves us.
He has redeemed us from the pit. He has sent his son to be that sacrifice. So we could never be. And so when we see our identity in Christ, as his son, as his daughter, as someone he cherishes and loves, that puts us in a, in a, in a mindset where it's not, God just condemning us, waiting for us to mess up again.
It's no, he's a father, the pro, he, he accepted the prodigal son with open arms, not waiting until the, the, the prodigal son got his theology. Right. And his whole life back in order and could pay back his debt. No, he ran out and embraced him. And too often, we find ourselves as the son who was like, oh, well, you didn't do this, this and this.
And, and God never did that for me. No, we should celebrate each other's victories and [00:36:00] achievements in Christ as we are on this race together, you know, the Bible says we run, run a race, which means that we are on different paths. Some are at the starting line, some are towards the end and we should be cheering each other on spurring each other on saying, Hey, let's go a little longer.
Here's a Gatorade come with me. Right. That should be our mindset as Christians. And too often, we think it. There's only one prize and I'm gonna win it and, and, and forget everyone else. And that's not healthy.
Tony: I I love the imagery of, of handing people Gatorades while we're on the race. I think that that's, that's beautiful.
And, and actually I love what you've written for the you version Bible plan focused on the fundamentals. I, I also know that you have a heart for families and for marriages and for that, that kind of ministry, how, how do we focus on the fundamentals? As you've so appropriately put with. The person who we're closest with and feels like we're overwhelmed all the time and we're running, you know, my wife and I feel like [00:37:00] professional Ubers on most days.
you know, how, how do we focus on the fundamentals together, especially cuz we're not running the same race, my wife and I have a completely different faith walk and I'm thankful for that. But also sometimes it, it can feel like she's on one corner of the, of the faith world and I'm on the
Tim: other. Mm. Yeah.
That's a good question. And it will depend on a lot of circumstances, but I'll just say in generally you know, we have to make sure that we understand who our battle is against the Bible says we fight not against flesh and blood. And too often, we fight with our spouse thinking they're the enemy. And there's always a deeper spiritual thing at play.
There's some kind of hurt that we haven't dealt with. There's some kind of frustration that we're taking it out on. And too often we take it out on the person we're closest. Because it's who we're comfortable with, but it's not honoring to each other to do that either. And so for, for a healthy marriage, putting Christ as the focus and not that you're focused on each other, but if you're both focused [00:38:00] on Christ, then you both can run together towards him, hand in hand.
And so I would say, you know, having both parties, whether they're at different levels, focusing on Jesus and having their own relationship not dependent upon each other. You know, not waiting that the man not waiting for the woman to drag him to church or vice versa. But also I would speak to the men listening, like to be the spiritual head of your house, to be the one in the front saying, Hey, we're gonna have family devotions tonight.
We're gonna pray. We're gonna do this. We're gonna be the one who, who leads in that example. And, and it's hard. Like it's hard to have family devotions. We try to do it once a week. We try to use our. Our family time during dinner as a time where we can just talk about the day. And I, I think it's also hard for married couples to pray together.
I don't know why that is. It should be an easy thing to do. And it's sometimes the hardest thing possible. We did a, a marriage group at church a few years ago and my wife and [00:39:00] I, and, and we would, we had maybe 15 couples or, or so, and. At, at one of the sessions, we forced each, each couple to pray for each other to actually look each other in the eye and pray wasn't optional.
He couldn't leave, had to do it. Yeah. locked door. And it was, it was powerful because so many couples said we've been married 10 years and we've never prayed for each other. Mm. And that just stuck with me as like, wow. Like that is one of that is our, our, our main tool. Right. As Christians is prayer connection with the father.
And yet we don't take that into our marriage. Why? Because it's awkward because I'll say a few words cuz we haven't done it before. Well, we have to get over that mindset as it's just awkward or I'll say the wrong thing because if you're with somebody and you both love Jesus, we should want to talk to our, our savior together.
And so it might just be something where you do it and it's awkward for a few times and you, it becomes part of your routine. You know, I think these practices that, that sound like, where am I gonna start get in on the schedule and try it for a month, see how it goes. Right? I mean, All these things we have to be intentional [00:40:00] about.
You don't just happen to Walt when Walt's into the gym and get in good shape. Right. That takes dedication. It takes discipline over many months of eating right. And pushing yourself at the gym to start to see results. And so a lot of times we try it once or we try it twice. We're like, ah, that didn't work.
persevere push through it. right. Let's, let's have a little dedication as Christians on things we know we're supposed to do. You know, we, we give a five minute prayer move on. Oh, there's no way I could pray for 30 minutes. Well, have you tried it right? Like, do you, do you truly believe in the power of prayer?
Ask yourself that honest question. Cuz if you truly believed in the power of prayer, you would do it more. Preach.
Tony: Let's go. I'm here for all of it. At, so let's say someone's thinking about starting your, you version devotional, focus on the fundamentals. What's the, what's the one thing you want them to know before they start?
Is there anything, is there any tips, words of wisdom form?
Tim: [00:41:00] Oh man, I don't think so. Just jump in, you know, it's, it's one of those things like we always should be reassessing our daily. And I just hope it's helpful where it's not like, okay, here's the seven step approach and, and you know, the seven steps of the arm of God, but it's, it's one of those things like, Hey, there might be one or two of these things that you're missing out on.
Yeah. And I would just encourage people to have an open mind where it's like back to your quiet time with God, right. It's not a one size fits all, you know, where are you at with God right now in your life and how do you wanna improve? And I think if we're always looking ahead at how we can. We can move forward as we're on a road of sanctification, meaning that we're trying to be holy as God is holy meaning that we'll never get there and be as holy as Jesus.
And so it's a lifelong process, but that's also exciting because if you're 80 years old, you still have more to learn. You still have things to learn about God, because he constantly reveals more and more to you. It's like breadcrumbs. He gives you a little bit. Then gives you a little more and gives you a little more.
And before, you know, it you're like, oh, I didn't realize this about God. It's so cool. I wanna know more. [00:42:00] And God is always willing to reveal more. And I like to say, you know, God is at an arms length away, right. He's at a arm, arms length away, but still requires us to reach out. Right. He's he's available.
but the, the little bit we can do, which is just push our arm out now he's made himself available. He's come close to us. He's done all the work he's there in front of us, standing at the door. Knocking just takes us to reach out a little bit and he'll meet us there.
Tony: I love it. I love it. I love it. Also, if you've never done E version Bible app devotional with a friend, I strongly recommend.
Because whenever I see responses of the people that I'm supposed to be reading with, come through my eval box. It it's a little bit of extra conviction and accountability. It's like running in a group, it's running into groups
Tim: and they see you highlighted something. You're like, oh, they're watching me highlight stuff.
Now. It's like, I gotta watch what I'm doing. You know, it's like accountability.
Tony: Okay. I have one more question for you. But before I ask it, I know that my my friends are gonna wanna connect with you [00:43:00] all over the interwebs. Where's the best place to learn all things, pastor.
Tim: Yes, go to discerning-dad.com.
You can find my website there, connection to all my social medias. I'm discerning dad on just about every social media, including TikTok I'm on there. So you can find me on there. I do have a few you version Bible plans. So if you're on there looking for plans, both of my books have shorter, you know, little snippets on there, including one I, I wrote called hurt by Christians.
So if you've experienced church, heart, which most of us have in some form or another, it's just an eight day plan to kind of help you process that a little bit, hopefully. So I would check all. Okay,
Tony: last question. I always love to ask people. It's an advice question. Yes. Except I get to take you back to a specific season in your life to give yourself a piece of advice.
And so I, I wanna take you back to your very first day. In retail management, right. If you could go back and look at that younger version of yourself and the journey that you're about to go on through retail and the church and management and all the things that come with working crazy schedules with even crazier [00:44:00] people.
And you could pull up a chair in front of that younger version of you. What's the one thing that you're gonna tell 'em. Mm,
Tim: wow. That's so good. I gotta think about. No, I would say you know, when I started out early twenties, you know, leading people that were way older than me and been in retail for a long time, you know, I, and this might be a little more of a leadership question than, or answer than a spiritual question, but I would say just be, be humble you know, be, be willing to learn from those that, that know more than you be willing to admit failure and also show love to people.
And, and it was hard. Like I look back at my time in retail and it was constantly about the numbers constantly about go, go, go, move forward, move forward in that environment was really hard to connect with people and be like, Hey, how was your weekend? Like, you couldn't even ask that, like you could, but then it was like, as you're walking down the aisle, you know, pushing something or, or helping someone else, like, it was really hard to just stop and connect with people.
And I would just [00:45:00] say to my younger self, like you know, Just be humble. Take times, take times of rest in, in your personal life, cuz you're gonna need it when you're working those, you know, 12 hour days, don't don't neglect the, the Bible and prayer, even if it's in the car, as you're driving to work, you know, saying the prayer before you walk in those doors and start experiencing stress and putting out fires.
There was seasons where I did that. Well and seasons where I did not do that well. And I think in the seasons where I did not do that well it led to a lot of other problems. It could have been avoid.
Tony: Yeah, that's that's good wisdom for all of us. I think so. Tim, thank you so much for being so generous with your time today.
Thank you for your heart, for the church and for making disciples. So I, I just so deeply appreciate you and, and what God's doing in you and through you.
Tim: Thank you, Tony. Pleasure to be.
Tony: Man. I love Tim's voice. I love his heart. I love the way he thinks about discernment and the way he thinks about disciple making and disciplines.
It's such well I think we're just kindred spirits. Honestly, [00:46:00] do me a favor. Go follow Tim on all the social medias. Let him know that you heard him here on the reclamation podcasts and again, subscribe to this podcast. I don't know. What's. Happen with it next, but I know that God's doing some amazing things on there, and he's had some amazing guests that you might wanna go back and listen to.
I'm thankful for each and every one of you to be a part of this community. And I can't wait to see how God continues to move in and through all of us. Remember, guys, if you wanna follow Jesus, you must be willing to move.
