#217: Dr. Jessica Peck with Special Guest - Shelby Peck!
Today's conversation is part two, and this time with Shelby Peck! Shelby is Dr. Jessica Peck's oldest daughter and in this conversation, we talk about the teen perspective of childhood.
This was a fun and powerful conversation!
EP. 217
Tony: [00:00:00] Hey guys. Welcome back to the Reclamation Podcast, where our goal is to help you reclaim good practices for following Jesus. If we haven't met yet, my name is Tony and I'm your host with over a decade in the local church. I just want to help you connect with Jesus and practical, tangible ways. I do that every week through interviews and monolog.
And this week, first time ever, it's the first time I've ever done this is I'm going back to back episodes with the same person with a twist. So earlier this week, if you subscribe, you already know Dr. Jessica Pet wrote a resource that I absolutely love called Behind Closed Doors. It's all about raising teenagers, and I've, I've got a teenager.
Got two more right behind them and and I loved the conversation so much. The Holy Spirit was there and it was just fun and pleasant and just, it was just a great conversation. It was so good that I said, Hey Jessica, you should come [00:01:00] back and you should bring your daughter Shelby. Shelby is at Baylor University and we talk about her view of her mom's work.
And this is just a, a really interesting dialogue. It's a look inside the Peck family, but really to look inside all of our families as we all do our very best to raise up young disciples and raise adults and bring adults into the world. So I hope you enjoy this conversation. If you. Do me a favor, hit that subscribe button wherever.
Listen to podcasts, leave a rating, a review on iTunes or Spotify. And hey, the highest comment you can give us, share this episode with a friend. Please share it maybe with somebody who you know that is raising teenagers. That's the kinda It's just a, it's tough work. I can just tell you. It's tough work.
So guys, thankful for you. And now without any further ado, here's my conversation with Jessica and Shelby Peck. Hey everybody. Welcome back to the podcast. I'm excited. This is a first time ever mother daughter [00:02:00] combo on the podcast. You guys remember Jessica Peck from our last episode talking about her new resource.
Behind closed doors. Well, now we have the legendary Shelby Pack with us, Shelby Baylor at Baylor University and and kind of a big deal on her own right. Shelby, thank you so much for being here today.
Shelby: No, thank you for inviting me. I'm excited.
Tony: And Jessica, welcome back. It's so good to have you. We had so much fun the last time that I thought what a great opportunity to do it.
Jessica: Absolutely. And just make sure you know, this is my street cred test right here to see like, am I walking the,
Tony: Shelby, let's start with you. Since I just got to spend a whole hour with your mom talking, I, I'm gonna ask more questions to you than I will of her, and we'll let her chime in every now and then. But let, let's start with your, your mom wrote a book about raising teenagers behind closed doors.
Talk to me about [00:03:00] your vantage point of a watching her do. Watching your mom produce this piece of content and the work that she's been called to do, and also how, how did it, how did it feel for you?
Shelby: For sure in the most humble way, I would like to request appreciation for being the Guinea pig for her book
No, but seriously, it's, it was definitely interesting, especially now watching my younger siblings become teenagers and grow up just seeing the differences. But also I realize what a gift I had in a mom who actually listened to me and wanted to hear about my life, not so that she'd get me in trouble, not so that she could know all.
See that was happening in my social groups, but genuinely was interested in seeing my perspective growing up as a teenager in today's world of technology and just craziness. And so overall I'm just, it was hard. And there, I mean, even in spirit of transparency, there are some moments still where we. Don't always get along and[00:04:00] are still trying to figure out that pathway of growing up as a teenager and having a mom who profession is writing about teenagers.
But overall, I'm just incredibly grateful to have a mom who cares about me so much and really is invested in my life.
Tony: Now Jessica, you hear your daughter say all that, what are some of the thoughts that come to mind as you listen to this this young woman? Kind of talk about what it's like to be on the other side of you.
Jessica: I don't know what it is about your show, Tony. Just get me all choked up and teary. But it's such a beautiful thing because I think we have to remember that healthy relationships are not perfect. They can be healthy without being perfect, and Shelby and I have a very healthy relationship. It's not perfect.
See where she has come from and to see, you know, the brokenness that I had with my own mom and to see us struggling to find a way forward and committed to that and, you know, still able to find our way back to each [00:05:00] other is hands down the most beautiful experience I've ever had in my life. Just the most beautiful redemptive experience.
It's been amazing. I'm so proud of her.
Tony: Shelby, I'm, I'm curious, you recently moved, you're, you're at Baylor University, if I have that right? Yes. And what's it been like stepping out from your home, stepping into this new season of life? What have you kind of learned about yourself in this process?
Shelby: That is a loaded question, and every time I meet a freshman, I always ask.
How they want to grow. And then as the semester continues, just talking about their progress because freshman year is so hard. Your parents just not their fault. They just drop you off and they're like, okay, good luck. Hope you make kids. You at Thanksgiving, , it's, it's really hard. And so I think just how I've grown is again, just learning your identity and who you are because at college, I mean, only one person from my high [00:06:00] school came to Baylor, so I got to start completely over and you really rebuild who you are and how you want to be portrayed.
And so it was very helpful to have that instilled in me and who I was all throughout growing up, so that when I came here I didn't lose myself. And there's still moments and there still are moments where I'm unsure sometimes and I have to remind myself that I am who the Lord has made me to be. But overall, I think college is a time where you either you go two ways, you continue in how you were raise.
whether that be good or bad, or you become a brand new person, whether you're also good and bad. And so yes, college has been, it's an experience for sure, and I'm so grateful, and I definitely think that growth is inevitable when you come.
Tony: Yeah, I think that that feels right. I think it feels like growth is probably one of the primary purposes of college.
What's the biggest thing that you've taken from your home life to where you are [00:07:00] now? Like what's your, are there any big takeaways? You're like, yep, I learned that at home and I absolutely cannot leave that behind. Or you're like, Nope, I'm trashing it all and starting over again. for sure.
Shelby: I think probably my biggest takeaway that I've noticed and become very grateful for at college is going to church, which sounds so simple, but again, at college you don't have supervision.
You don't have someone telling you you need to wake up early. And so being able to find a healthy church here in Waco and getting plugged in and evolved and following my parents' example of church leadership and service has just been so encouraging to come. And just, I feel incomplete almost when I haven't been serving within an arena, whether that's creating or doing youth or leading a life group.
And so I think also it's been very encouraging to see other students who are raised in the same ways. And it was, I was very surprised to have my roommates even just wake up and we all go to church, even though it's been. A football game in the late night, we still, it's a priority and it's something that really changes your week, so I'm very grateful for that.[00:08:00]
Tony: I love to lift up the local church. So why don't we give a little love to where you're going to church at in Waco. What's the name of the place? If somebody's like looking for a church near Baylor, where should they go?
Shelby: Yeah, I go to, there's also so many incredible churches in Waco. I've tried several Highland, Antioch, Woodway.
But personally I just felt the Lord calling me to Harris Creek Baptist Church, and it has been. I could just, it's incredible and it's not, again, it's not a perfect church, but it's a healthy church. And so if you definitely, if you're looking for somebody involved, no matter if you're a college student, if you have kids, if you are older, it's just incredible.
Every Sunday morning I can meet someone who's 90 or nine and. They definitely have so many resources, whether you're going through addiction or you're going through divorce or you just want to have friendships or if you wanna do an inductive study to the Bible. So if you're in Waco, please come cuz it is.
It is definitely a home and it has changed my college experience completely.
Tony: All right, Jessica, this [00:09:00] question's back to you. Cuz there are about hundreds of parents that are listening right now that are saying, the only thing I want is for my kids to still love the Lord when they leave my house. What are, what are some of the keys that parents can take away from from trying to get our kids involved in church on their own accord and not just because we make.
Jessica: So I love this question, and I think first of all, if you want your kids to follow the Lord, you have to follow the Lord. You have to do it authentically. It has to be a faith that you live out every day, not just rituals or religion, or even going to church. It's more about connecting with a body of believers.
So one thing that we did in our family that I really loved was that wherever we go on vacation, and we started traveling a lot because of my role we would task the kids with finding a church to go to wherever we were. So looking at the local community church and finding, looking at their theology [00:10:00] online and what time is their service, and having that guest experience because we were, we have been members of our church their whole lives and I wanted them to know that the church is.
Our church, but it's the church. So we've had some really great experiences worshiping with other believers. Like we, we got served smoothies and got lays in Hawaii, which the kids all wanted to join, like right there. But we've been to an old. One of the oldest churches in America in Jamestown. We've been to a little mountain church in Colorado.
And so I think that was one of the practices that we had. And we also just always prioritized going to church, not in a legalistic way, but in a way that we really want to genuinely connect with a family of believers. We were gonna hold us accountable. Who are going to walk with us in every way and every day and just live life with us and that that's what we did.
And it has been just such a joy to see Shelby. You know, the first thing that when she got there was connecting with Harris Creek, and we've been able to visit there with her and seeing that she feels like she has a home and [00:11:00] she just. Clicked right in. That gave us a lot of comfort as parents knowing that she had, there's a, a group, a family that invites all the college students over on Sundays after church, just so they can have a, a home feeling and a family cooked meal.
Those kinds of things are just absolutely priceless.
Tony: Shelby, anything to add to that thought process? .
Shelby: I think that's, she hit a nail right on the head. I think that a church is just a family that's essentially what it is. And so continually, especially cuz Harris Creek is a larger church, consistency is key. And just putting yourself out there and meeting people.
I mean, I'd like to again, shop the Eck fam for giving us lunch every week. They feed 20 people every week without fail and no hesitations. Besides that, they don't just put food on the table, they sit with us and engage us in spiritual conversations about the sermon. And so I think it really is a key to your success in college is finding that local family away from home and the body of believers to encourage you and hold you [00:12:00] accountable.
It's really special
Tony: The. So one of the questions I asked your mom in our very first conversation is one that I want to ask you, and it has to do with calling and I recognize that callings can shift throughout a lifetime. But I'm curious, how would you describe the calling that God has placed on your life in this season?
Shelby: And that's a good question. Especially someone who is unsure with what they want to do career wise and even just major wise, still figuring that. But I think what the Laura's been teaching me in this past couple of months has just been to follow him in each step in obedience daily. And something that I learned from Harris Creek is that obedience is not determined by the outcome.
And so, or that yes, obedience is not. Yes. And so just learning that all I can do is be faithful and the outcome may be different, but as long as I'm obedient, that's okay. How I can be obedient is by loving people around me, by consistently following the [00:13:00] Lord, putting him first in my life and just serving the people on this campus.
And so do I worry about the future? Do I worry about what I'm going to do with my life? Because those are realistic things, yes. But every day in the mundane things, just knowing that I'm following him and having my priorities straight, I know that my paths will be directed and it will all.
Tony: That's a great answer.
I love it. You, you mentioned something about kind of figuring out what's next. You have two highly successful parents, right? So your, your dad's a rocket scientist. Your mom's a published author of, of, you know, hopefully a best selling book. And talk to me about that kind of pressure. I, I've got a couple of kids who are a little bit younger than you.
There's a lot of parents listening who are like, man, I don't wanna put the pressure on my kids. I wanna be successful, but I don't want my kids to feel like their success is somehow tied to my love for them. I'm, I'm curious, what's your perspective or thoughts. . [00:14:00]
Shelby: That's good. And I think also, I have two very successful parents.
I also have two very successful STEM parents. And so as an arts major, that was a little intimidating just to be, to tell them, oh, I'm not pre-law anymore. I'm journalism. Yay. And then just expect them, you know, which, they're so gracious and they support me no matter what I do. But again, I think success.
Your framing of success from both the parents and the students perspective needs to be reshift reframed and that success and the world and success for the kingdom look very different. And so as long as I'm working humbly and sincerely and just knowing again that the Lord will drive my past, doesn't mean I should neglect school and go off and hang out with my friends, cuz I would gladly do that sometimes.
But I think having a healthy relationship with your parents. One in which they know you're doing the best you can and that everything else, if you are getting trust in the Lord, you have to do, you know, he wants us to [00:15:00] work. We're designed to work. That's our purpose. So we have to steward well, what we've been given.
But as long as we're doing that, just as long as you know and your parents know. I think my parents know that I'm doing the best I can and it's all gonna. ,
Tony: Jessica, thoughts on how that conversation went on the, on the change of major and all that kind of stuff? Just what, what's your perspective on that same question?
Jessica: You know, it's so, it's so hard because I think, you know, Shelby was very nervous to tell us that she wasn't going to be pre-law anymore, and we could not have cared less. You know, we want her to be happy and successful and follow God. Follow God's calling, ands. So, you know, it wasn't a difficult conversation at all, but it just reminded me how we are designed to have our father's approval, our parents' approval that is in us because we're designed to spiritual beings to want God's approval.
And so it just reminds me of the weight and the calling of parenthood to steward that so [00:16:00] carefully because. I know that Shelby really does care what I think of her. And so I want her to always know that I see the best in her, that I see what is to be, you know, even before she can see it. And so casting that, you know, vision and seeing, you know, we don't know where she's gonna end up or what she's go even maybe what major she's gonna graduate with, but I know that she's gonna follow the Lord and I, I feel so privileged to have a front row journey to her that's so different from mine.
Like, It's really fun because I think you, I think back when she used to, she told me once that she wanted to be a travel blogger and my Gen X self said like, oh, really? But then I thought, no, people really do that, that that's a real thing. Like I'm gonna have an open mind and just enjoy this, you know, this dimension that I don't have in myself.
So it's been really, it's been really an.
Tony: Sh Shelby, I'm curious you, you hear your mom say that she obviously super supportive of what God's doing in your [00:17:00] life. Your mom and dad are both, you know, clearly big fans of you. I, I, I wonder how much is the right amount of affirmation? Do you think that, that you need? Teenagers need. I, I mean, cuz like sometimes I'll be like, Hey son, I love you, I love you, I love you.
And he's like, got it dad, quit talking to me. What's the right balance there?
Shelby: There's definitely a balance cuz you don't wanna be a snowflake, which is a word thrown around a lot. And sadly I see that a lot here. I can act that way sometimes where the pressure just mounts up and I can't handle it. So I think a healthy amount of pushing where, I mean, my whole life they always wanted me to do my best.
Schol classically, whether. A were for physics. It was not an A, but that's okay. . And so just knowing that they want, again, just it's all about stewarding what we've been given and we've all been given differently. And so I think support is great. They always check in on my work, but they're not overbearing and making sure I give them [00:18:00] my grades every week.
And also just again, with the. What do I wanna do with my life? What is my major? I have a friend who has handed a book that said things you should not major in, and that was probably not the most encouraging thing. So just to definitely balance open conversation, honesty and transparency and that. I think they do have a right to know a semblance of my schedule.
Do they know every single hour? No. But week by week I keep them updated and they ask me if I'm managing my time well because they know a lot better about managing time than I. I still cannot imagine being an adult. I just pay my rent. I can't imagine paying taxes and doing everything else plus your normal job and raising children.
So also me respecting their wisdom and discernment in my life as well. It's balance.
Tony: I can just assure you all of that stuff is.
I, I, I, I do want to talk about this new project that you're working on with your mom. I'm [00:19:00] wondering if you might be able to introduce the idea, cuz this is kind of, your mom mentioned it to me in the last podcast and that's why we're here now. Tell us a little bit about what what drew you to this idea of this blog and kind of who it's, who it's for and that kind of, for sure.
Shelby: So the blog is for anyone who is listening and anyone who wants to hear, anyone who needs encouragement, whether that's parents who want my perspective by some meat of the grace of God, or if it's people my age who are just looking for a voice. They'll speak honestly, but hopefully kindly is what I'm aiming for.
And so, I think again, with stewardship, I think I have been gifted humbly in the area of writing. It's my, probably one of my strong suits in school, and so why not? I mean, all the pathways have lined up to this point, and so just being able to speak about things. I know I, I'm a very thoughtful person in my head, like I internal process things a lot and so I journal big fan of journaling, so just being able to share [00:20:00] those thoughts and just the conversation.
It's not. My thoughts, but the conversations I have with my roommates and my friends here at Baylor, it's really cool to see so many college students who could be talking about such trivial things, which we do. We talk about, you know, the met outfits and everything, and it's due time, but also hearing their deep thoughts and perspectives on life, their struggles or hopes has been so encouraging.
And I think they really can be applied universally to anyone who, even if you didn't go out to school and some of my good friends, Did trade school, are they at home working on other things? And so just things that can be applied over a wide arena that I think will just hopefully provide encouraging and hope itself is what the goal will be.
Yeah.
Tony: I love it, and you're clearly very articulate, so I, I don't think you have anything to worry about there. I, I, give us a flavor of the kind of content that you hope to put out. You're gonna [00:21:00] be writing on, on doctor nurse mama.com, your mom's website. Obviously. It's a, it's a pretty well established platform.
Probably thousands of people every month, you know, hitting the blog. I, no pressure. Right. I, you know, I know it's all by God's grace. I know. Sorry. Too much. Give us a flavor of the kind of content that you hope to put out there
Shelby: For sure. So I think it is unique having the perspective of. My mom, who with all due respect is older and just my siblings in, I was trying to say that kind way as possible.
And just my siblings and I, we had a conversation a few weeks ago about, I think it was the term gate keeping, and she was using it in a positive context. And I said, mom, no, that means something bad to my age. It means, you know, you're trying to hide things and you're being manipulative, and so.
hopefully just going through each topic that she talks about in her book, just whether that's about suicide or cyber bullying or vaping or social media and just [00:22:00] offering what I see from my perspective and what also my peers are seeing. So for the first one, just kind of an introduction to see. What is all about?
I'm interested in talking about if Addison Ray, TikTok star, my mom and I have had many discussions about her because, so silly, well, very controversial, but a few months ago she had a really big social media controversy with Adidas and how she made something that was considered blasphemous. And so from the parent's perspective, it, I mean from a Christian or religious person's perspective, it probably didn't come.
Fantastic. And so everyone's, oh, cancel her, cancel Adidas. But as a teenager and someone who sees my peers watch her videos and watch her videos, myself and her life, there's a lot going on in her personal life as well, which I think is so interesting that we're quick to talk about celebrities, even though they are teenagers, it's hard enough to be a teenager with no [00:23:00] public presence, and I cannot.
her life. Just how everyone dissects, all of her decisions, all of her choices, all of her closet in such a large scale. And so just seeing how her family life, how she's been open about that and talked about that and how difficult it's for her, but how it was very overlooked in that controversy and people were quick to jump on her.
So as an introduction, I think just talking about it doesn't go both ways, cuz I know I don't always see things correctly, but providing a perspective. That allows a little bit of a bigger window into the world of teenagers. Today is the goal for each topic of the book.
Tony: That's a long answer. Sorry. No, it, listen, we're here for the long answers.
That's what we're here for. That's the best part about podcasts. You can be as long winded as you want. Jessica, you're giving your platform to your daughter so that she can write whatever's on her heart. How, how. How does that make you feel? [00:24:00] Let's dive into that a little bit because it's a, that's a big that's a big risk.
Jessica: It is, and I think it's indicative of the relationship that Shelby and I have. I mean, we, like we've said, I mean, please do not think anybody out there listening that we have a perfect relationship. In fact, we had a very difficult conversation even just last night. You know, where we're working through growing pains, right?
where we're working through growing pains where, I mean, I'm learning as a mom, I've. I, I've never parented a child who's in college before, so I'm learning, and she's never been in college before. So she is learning, but I am confident in, in the heart of who Shelby is and knowing, you know, her worldview and her perspective and having just.
Confidence in the, in the faith that she's grounded in. And knowing that this is gonna be a collaborative process and we'll talk through it together because our heart is to reach mother daughter diads, you know, out there who are struggling, who are fighting, who are thinking, is this ever going to be okay?
[00:25:00] And saying, yes, there is hope for this. And so that when we have that shared mission, then it's easy to talk together. Cuz just like she came into my perspective and said, Hey, the way that you're using gate. Let me give you my perspective on that. And then I can come to her and say, Hey, the way that you're saying this, this is how moms are perceiving it.
How can we use our relationship together to create a bridge to do that? And so I think, and I talk to so many parents who their kids don't talk to them. And I'm very, very fortunate that, you know, Shelby talks to me, all of my kids talk to me. And so I think just I told her, leveraging that, just saying for all those parents who are saying, I can't get anywhere.
Giving them some insight that might help them to relate. I mean, I'll do it every day and twice on Sunday.
Tony: Hey guys, just pausing this conversation with the Pecks to remind you that now is the perfect time to pick up your ticket to the Spirit and Truth Conference, March 9th through 11th here in Dayton, Ohio.
This is gonna be a fresh breath of the Holy Spirit. We've got some incredible speakers and more [00:26:00] than anything, just an incredible community that we wanna invite you to be a part of. So go to Spirit and Truth dot. Conference. And as you check out, use the code podcast to save a little money on that registration ticket.
And I will see you at the Spirit and Truth Conference, March 9th through 11th, registered today, spirit and truth.life/conference. Jessica, I'm, I'm curious as. Project kind of comes to life. There's gonna be a lot of moms and daughters who look at you and they feel a real strain on their relationship, and they're gonna look at what you and Shelby have.
Even just from this, you know, dialogue, it's obvious that you guys are, are honest and vulnerable with each other, which is so admirable. What words of wisdom do you have for moms and daughters? Who are struggling with their relationship and I, I really just want you to speak from the mom perspective, cuz Shelby, I'm gonna ask you the same question in a moment from the daughter's perspective.
Jessica: [00:27:00] So my perspective is I just, I have to recognize that Shelby is not my peer yet. You know, she is my daughter and she is growing and she is learning, and I can't expect her to validate my parenting styles and so much, I think when she was 13 and I, I guess we can out everybody now, Shelby, that you're the one that threw the book at my head and started this whole journey.
But you know, when I think that, when I look at that, At that perspective and thinking of how far that we've come, how far that we've come together, it is oh, sorry Tony, you're gonna have to edit this. Wait, I lost my train of thought on, what was the question again?
Tony: No, you're fine. Okay. Words of wisdom for moms who want a relationship with their daughters.
Jessica: Oh, okay. Yes. All right. I remember us going. Okay. So when I think about where we started and in such a broken place, and I didn't know how to be a mom, I think where I was was I was trying to control her [00:28:00] behavior because her behavior made me feel like I was being a good mom. If she was doing the right things or saying the right things, then that must mean that I'm a good mom and it, and it was just that I wanted desperately to be a good mom, but I recognized that I really needed to be more concerned about her heart than her behavior.
And when she had challenging moments to stand with her in those moments and still believe in her and still champion her, and still see past that challenging moment and not general. That to her behavior and to not take my own personal hurt out onto her to think I'm bigger than that. I, I can be stronger than that.
I can, I can not take that personally and I can be courageous enough to say, I know you said that, but I know you don't really believe it and I'm gonna forgive you and I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna hold it against you. And so I think those kinds of things and just even sometimes when it would be easier to leave things alone, we pursue it and we work through it and.
You know, do get out and we you know, [00:29:00] we have conflict until we get to that point of resolution. And I'm really appreciative of the way that Shelby gives me the honor of being vulnerable and authentic with me. I mean, that really is a privilege that she has given me that I wanna steward very, very respectfully.
Tony: Okay. Shelby, same question, but from your perspective, you're talking to a lot of maybe young Peers out there and or, or maybe even moms who are listening from, from a daughter's perspective, what can they do to pursue a relationship with your mom? What, what words of wisdom do you have for us on that?
Shelby: I think you have to choose your battles, which sounds. You know, like you're solving conflict with a peer and it definitely is a different relationship. My mom is, she knows more than me. She always says that. She's like, I will. We will fight and I will beat you every time. I'm smarter than you. I have more money than you.
I am more, you know, experienced than you, which is true, and it hurts to hear sometimes, but I think for daughters who are [00:30:00] wanting that relationship with their mom, a lot of times I think. That moms can be unreceptive because they're unsure how to respond. But also I think we have take accountability for our part.
And so just doing little things just to, whenever she does try to listen, being grateful and expressing your gratitude for that, or even from away from home. I text my mom still. I say, how is your day? And send her pictures. Cause I know she cares about those things. And so just knowing, at least owning your percent and just doing what you.
and being open and receptive to her attempts because they're not gonna get it perfect on the first time, especially if it's a new thing that you know, they're trying a new method just to get to know you better. And so just being open to their genuine interest in your life and trusting their motives that they aren't to control you or to warrant your behavior.
Or to do anything of that sort, but believing your best interest by believing their best interest and is thinking that they genuinely [00:31:00] are doing this to get to know you and love you better. And so just being open to that and being respectful of their attempts.
Tony: I love that. I tell my kids all the time that this is.
Sorry, say I tell 'em all the time that, go ahead, .
Jessica: I'm sorry. There's a little delay so I'm talking over you. I was just gonna say, I'd add to that that Shelby and I made an agreement that we would take each other at face value, that we were not going to hyperly our conversation. That if, you know, I say something of how I feel if I, if she asked me if.
Set. And I say, I'm not upset, then she's going to accept that and I'm going to honor that. And that has really been very helpful in our relationship take and believing the best in each other. So when we start spinning and thinking, oh, but what does she think? We just have to stop ourselves and then we've agreed to, to think the best motive of each other.
And unless we have, you know, indications of otherwise. And then we'll have that conversation. But that's been really helpful.
Tony: Shelby, since I have [00:32:00] you here and I have a daughter, do you have any tips for dads and daughters?
Shelby: Oh yes. That's a good thing. I think for daughters, at least for me and my dad, cuz my dad is, I know he's rare, a rare gem in that he.
Always is so like the first one to ask us when we get home, if we wanna watch an episode of the office or go on a walk, and he genuinely cares about us and wants to invest his time. So I think as daughters being respectful again to that and being grateful for that because again, it is so rare, and especially coming to college and seeing a lot of my peers who do not have great relationships with their fathers and whose.
Are not as invested just going on a walk or going tob with him. It takes probably 30 minutes outta my day and it makes his world, I think. And so that would be my advice for them is just realizing those moments when they are pursuing you relationally and being grateful for those. And then for dads, I would say that it, I would say that my dad, [00:33:00] He's kind of the one, I don't know if this is a universal thing, but I think my dad's the one I can get away with a little bit more.
And so, which, you know, anyways, sorry mom. But I think that whenever I'm very sensitive to when he gets frustrated with me and his reactions in that, because I shouldn't hold him to standard reflection because I'm not held to standard of perfection. But I think just letting him know how it feels when he's upset with me and just expressing that.
Very peacefully, I think is also something that's really important because anger is very damaging, I think, in relationships, especially with daughters just because of natural tendencies and personally, I hate conflict. And so it's definitely, I give advice just to again, be open and honest and just express her in a gentle manner.
Will go a long.
Tony: Jessica, anything to add to that, just from your experience of dealing with [00:34:00] dads and teens? Is it, or what dads say, weighted a little heavier or differently than what moms say?
Jessica: Oh, I definitely think so. You know, my kids. My kids will come to me for advice. You know, they'll come to me for that.
I need to know what to do. But they go to their dad even. They want to know, I wanna know who I am and who they are in their dad's eyes. Just somehow carries more weight, I think, than who they are in my eyes, because there's just. They, they really value that affirmation that he has. And so I think, you know, for me as a mom, it's up to me to really nurture that relationship and to encourage that and to help translate for him sometimes, you know, thinking cuz he says, I'm an engineer, it's inevitable, I'm going to hurt your feelings.
And so sometimes, you know, kind of coaching him through that and, and giving him some ideas for how he can connect. I think he's really appreciative of that. But I just recognize that they. [00:35:00] They're, they're definitely gonna have more fun with him than they do with me. And I'm okay with that. You know, we, when they were little, I would have what I call mommy fun day and cuz we would go to the zoo or something like that and he said, that is not fair.
I'm really jealous because you have more, you know, you have this special thing with them and I don't, so he created his own called Daddy Danger Day, , and he would let them do everything. That I didn't let them do. And so I think, you know, just having that balance and I know it's terrible. Jump on a trampoline, eat ice cream for breakfast, you know, run in the street with no shoes.
Like these are all the things that he would let them do. But I think that just sometimes it can be kind of tension between parents of teens, if. If like, say that Shelby was feeling closer to me or feeling closer to my husband at a, at a certain point of time, it's easy for parents to kind of be jealous of that and think, Ugh, they're talking to them more than me.
But we just have to see it as a perspective as we're a team and now, you know, now he's in and he's in the game and I'm on the sidelines [00:36:00] and that's okay. I'm gonna tag out with him when you know, things change and when the energy shifts and when he needs relief. So I think that really has helped my per.
Shelby,
Tony: I'm, I'm curious you're in college now. You grew up in a home that was committed to the local church, committed to being a part of that community. How, how important or is there any importance to the community that you had when you were at home in terms of what you're doing now? Like I, I'm thinking of the.
The, the parents who are like, man, I, I think I need to find more community. How much has community played a role in where you are today? I think
Shelby: that, I know my parenting experience is very rare just to grow up. So traditionally with the mom and the dad and siblings, I went to church and we rode bikes and we, you know, had 4th of July parade and so it has a very idyllic childhood and I think it determines a lot of my trajectory.[00:37:00]
Hmm. And so I'm very grateful for those things. I think being in church every week has led me to go to church every week, but also I don't think that's the hard line to determinate of everything, because I have several friends who do not come from the church home life. Maybe they don't have a mom, they don't have a dad, or they grew up with aunt, aunt and uncle.
And so again, it just really determine, it doesn't matter so much what the home structure looks like as the heart posture. And so just as long as I. It's really instilled at home that your community is there for you and that it's important to pursue the Lord because he'll determine everything. That's what the real deciding factor is, because it, it's not, there's been several people I know at Baylor who have been converted and have learned to love the Lord and their time here, but having that home life and that home community to already give you an advantage, it's really something.
Very, I'm very grateful for [00:38:00] just being able, then you become a leader almost. Instead of learning you were able to disciple or just to teach others what you have been learning and what you have learned, and just share with them your worldview. So I definitely don't think that what your home life looks like in high school or as a kid is going to decide, but I think it has a really, really big role that shouldn't be.
Tony: Yeah, I think that's probably a really good word. I'm curious for both of you. The blog is gonna be out in the world before you know it, and people from all over are gonna be reading it. Jessica, I'll start with you and then I'll go to Shelby next. What's your prayer? As this venture begins to take flight, I mean, obviously the book's already out and God's doing some amazing things through that.
What's the next, you know, as you pray about this blog and what it means and what it could, could mean for a lot of mothers and daughters and just teenagers in general. What's your prayer? [00:39:00]
Jessica: My prayer is that people would find hope in our journey. And looking at the way Shelby grew up is so different in, in relational ways than compared to the way that I grew up.
And I think that, you know, with Shelby, there was such a potential for me to pass on generational trauma and for us just to continue the same pattern of conflict. But we have really worked our way through that. And it wasn't just me or just Shelby. It was really her receptiveness and her understanding of my experience.
She was very understanding of that and very open to see. My mom didn't go to college. My mom didn't have a mom when she was my age. And you know that she has a lot of great. For me in that way, and I have a lot of grace for her and knowing that, hey, I'm just trying this out, you know, and I'm gonna fail and I'm gonna falter.
And I hope that people will see hope in, in our relationship, that there is hope for healthy relationships. [00:40:00] I just, I really pray that in a world that often seems so dark and so depressing and so hopeless, that people will see the hope of the redemptive work of Christ in relationships.
Tony: Love it. Shelby, what about you?
What's your prayers? This blog gets born out into the world.
Shelby: That's a really good answer. To follow up. My prayers just in those fear of hope and Christmas is coming. So Christmas words, but just faithfulness, just for people to find who Jesus is and see what he's done for them, and then just to be able to follow him.
Faith. It's not getting any easier to live out a life in the way we are called, just because the world is changing and anything you say can flip on you. And it's so there's, every day there's a new topic, it seems like that you have to form an opinion on, form a belief in order to. Live well, and to respect other people's opinion and things, different ways the Bible can be interpreted.
And so my prayer [00:41:00] just said people would learn ways in which to walk faithfully and let that lead them to whatever the Holy Spirit's calling them to. And the Holy Spirit can mix us in different ways. So my experience and how I choose to live out in college will not be the same experience as someone else who is following Jesus.
And so that's my ultimate prayer is just. Each person just to read it and be encouraged to find hope and just to live a life dedicated to the race because it gets hard and there are definitely days that are very tiring. By the end of the day, my eyes are not on what's around me and what people, how many people like my Instagram post about homecoming will not matter.
What really matters is how did I live and how did I impact the people around me?
Tony: Praise the Lord. I love that. Okay, I have one more question for you, and it's a, it's an advice question, so just get ready. It's the hardest question I ask every single episode. Your mom's already answered it once. But before I do that, I know that my people are gonna want to connect with you all over the [00:42:00] internet.
So Shelby, is there any place online where people could learn about more, more about what God is doing?
Shelby: For sure. So that's something that I'm definitely praying about in the season as thinking about that the past couple weeks, definitely on the blog on my mom's website. And also just, it's hard to have public social media and today just because you get very cynical and even on a private account, I get a lot of really weird dms that I are just very interesting.
So just navigating that looks like. But I say for sure right now the blog and then. Discernment for what the future looks like.
Tony: Great. That's a fantastic answer. Jessica, obviously dr. Nurse mama.com. Any other site that we should be thinking about when it comes to what God's doing through your ministry,
Jessica: you can find everything there.
You can find my blogs, Shelby's blog, the podcast, and connection to other resources. Find me on social, everything you can find on dr. [00:43:00] Nurse mama.com.
Tony: Okay, so the last question I always love to ask, it's an advice question and I ask you to go back in time and give yourself one piece of advice. And as we were talking, I've been praying about what's the right spot for both of you to go back and give yourself one piece of advice.
And I'm gonna take you back to the car where you threw the book at your mom. Okay, . I know, I know. This is great. You what I'd like for you to do is, is I'd like for you in, in your mind's eye to pull up a chair in front of that young, younger version of yourself and think about all that you're about to go through in high school and now in college.
And if you could go back there and give her one piece of advice, what's the one thing that you're gonna tell Shelby? .
Shelby: That's a really good question. I see that it says your difficult one, I think. [00:44:00]
Tony: Hmm.
Shelby: So back when I threw the book at my mom, which yes, I'm very sorry about that. Still continually, I was just going through a lot that junior high kids go through. Junior high is not fun. I, my sister had a good junior high experience, which I still am baffled by and we still have discussions about. But it's just a very hard time.
And again, one in which I did not know who I was. And so, Back At that time, we had just gotten a new pastor at our church that I grew up in and he challenged the whole church to pick a word of the year, which I only did for that one year, but the, that's what counts as the effort. I did it for that one year and it stuck with me.
But the where did I picked that year was above, and it was from Colossians, I believe, to setting your mind on the things that are above. And so whether I didn't see that fully at the time because I did throw a book at my mom. I was not thinking about pleasing the Lord then in that moment. But just what I would tell myself [00:45:00] is just to set your mind on what is above, because it's so easy to get caught in the things that are so heavy in the world and that just are draining and mentally exhausting.
Cause conflict and cause strife. And ultimately I think just keeping your mind above and reminding yourself of what is important and what truly will matter. That's what carries you through. Cuz it, it does provide a hope and just conflict, especially something I'm still working on. That is all things.
It's not my mom and I having an argument with one another. It's our own insecurities. It's our own struggle. Our own passions from James at Were Within us with one another. And so what I would just tell myself at 13 struggling is just to remember who you are and just to keep running well, and just to look ahead because that's what really will sustain you.
So,
Tony: Phenomenal answer. Jessica same question to you at the same moment, if you could go back [00:46:00] and pull the car over and talk to that tired now, kind of frustrated at what's end version of yourself, what's the one piece of advice
Shelby: you're gonna give her?
Jessica: I would tell her not to give up hope that the best is yet to come, and I would tell her g.
That, you know, Shelby throwing the book at my head was not Shelby's fault. I mean, I had ineffective coping skills that prompted us to come to that moment. I had equal culpability. I was not handling myself well, and I was not honoring Christ in that moment. I'm sure the words that were coming out of my mouth were not, you know, God honoring and healthy in that moment.
And so I think just recognizing, you know, What had brought a lot of, what had brought me to that point was not my fault, you know? But what I did from that moment forward was my responsibility and I had a choice to make. You know, I could either follow what I knew or I [00:47:00] could get up and go to the land, or God has showed me like he called Abraham.
He didn't tell him where he was going. He just said, we're going on a journey. And I would tell that mom in the. Don't give up hope. Keep your eyes on Jesus, the author and perfector for your faith, and he is writing an incredible story. And this is just the first chapter.
Tony: Amen. Amen. This was so much fun, guys.
And so I, I'm gonna do one more thing I've never done before because this is a first for me to have a mother and a daughter. I, I think there are a lot of people listening who can't see Jessica's facial expressions as Shelby eloquently waxed about her faith. And so Jessica, I was just wondering if you would share with With our, our reclamation family about how, how you feel listening to your daughter be so amazing.
Jessica: I, well, I'm telling you, Tony, I'm not a crier, especially on, you know, [00:48:00] podcast and media, but this has just brought me to tears just to see the beauty of Shelby's story, and I know. Very intimately, the heartache that she has faced the loss that she has faced in her life. She is, she is a girl who has faced a lot of loss and you wouldn't know that.
And she's lost a lot of friendship. She's lost family members. She's lost relationships. She has lost a lot. And to see her still. You know, having faith in spite of all of that and to see her so much more articulate than I am, you know, is just the greatest joy. I mean, I have no greater joy than to know my children are walking in truth.
And so to look at this, it just, it brings me such joy and I am so grateful for the gift of Shelby.
Tony: Shelby. Final word, it goes to you. Anything else you wanna add?
Shelby: Thank you, mom. That was very kind. Yeah, that's, that was good. I [00:49:00] don't know how else better to put it. Thank you for letting me come. I'm excited and I'm grateful for what the Lord is doing just through so many different platforms and I think also just seeing his faithfulness, my roommate that lived across the hall from me in my dorm last year, her mom's a Christian author and so, and she wants to write a blog and she has a blog and.
Just even those little things that are the Lord smiling upon us and just giving us good gifts. It's more than I could ever ask for and all those hard moments. That's why faithfulness is still being pursued in my life, is because I have seen it and I know it's real and I know it's true and it's the only thing that helps us.
So, Yes. Go, Jesus. Come on. Come on, .
Tony: Amen. Amen. Thank you ladies so much. . What a great conversation with Shelby and Jessica. There was a lot of feelings there at the end, which I deeply appreciated. That's the good stuff of podcasting. I don't know if I talk about that enough with you guys, but every now and then you just get to have these incredible conversations [00:50:00] and look into people's lives and.
The nature of God is so sweet in those moments. I'm just so thankful and I'm thankful for you, for you letting me be a part of this and for being a part of this journey with me. Couldn't do it without you guys. So thank you. Thank you, thank you. Thank you guys. We'll see you next week, brand new episode.
We'll be back on the monologues next week. And remember, guys, if you wanna follow Jesus, you must be willing to move.
