#218: Pastor J. Josh Smith: The Titus Ten
Pastor J. Josh Smith is a practitioner of what it means to live out an intentional community.
In his latest resource; The Titus Ten: Foundations for Godly Manhood Pastor Josh explores what it means to be a man, the importance of community, and everything in between.
https://www.spiritandtruth.life/
Links:
https://www.bhpublishinggroup.com/the-titus-ten/
https://twitter.com/jjoshsmith
https://instagram.com/twmilt
EP. 218
Tony: [00:00:00] Hey everybody. Welcome back to the Reclamation Podcast, where our goal is to help you reclaim good practices for following Jesus. If we haven't met yet, my name is Tony, and I'm your host with over a decade in the local church. I cared deeply and passionately about helping you connect with Jesus in practical voice.
Today's episode is so. Pastor Josh Smith wrote this brand new resource called The Titus 10. And what it is, it's it's foundations for Godly man. And here's what I love about it for everyone, not just men. What I love about it is that it really talks to what it means to be a man. It talks to what it means to live and be kind of that spiritual leader that God has called us to be.
He's got a pastor's heart, he's got great theology. I think you're really gonna enjoy this conversation with Pastor Smith. And if you do, do me a favor. Hit that subscribe button wherever you listen to. Leave a [00:01:00] rating, a review on iTunes or Spotify, and the highest compliment you can give us. Share this episode with a friend.
Maybe somebody who you know needs a little nudge in the Godly Manhood Department. Guys, I'm so thankful for you. Now that I do further ado, here's my conversation with Pastor Josh Smith. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the podcast. I'm excited today to have a pastor, author, and movement leader, Dr. Josh Smith.
Josh, thank you so much for taking the time to be on the podcast.
Josh: Oh, I appreciate it. No one calls me, doctor, but I appreciate you doing that. So that's nice. .
Tony: You earned it, bro. That's So, I'm here for you.
Put in the work. Oh, I would love before we get started, because we're gonna talk about godly manhood and we're gonna talk about your latest resource the Titus 10.
But I think that it's important to start with something for the. In the sense of like, why do they need to listen to a conversation on godly manhood? Why is it important? You've got four daughters. Is that right? And one son? [00:02:00] Yes. So why is it important for your daughters to listen to a conversation like this?
Josh: Oh, absolutely. So I've joked sometimes that I kind of wrote this for men, but I kind of wrote it because I've got four daughters and like I'm super concerned about husbands someday and all of those kind of things. So that's a real thing for me. I mean, my wife had a great dad. He's quoted a number of times in my book.
I had a great dad. Her dad was really intentional with her, and so kind of getting into that family and seeing the way that he, I think I've received the benefit of a wife that had a strong dad. That's a huge deal. So I'm thankful for that. And I think her dad receives a lot of credit for how she ended up.
And then too, you know, I just, I, I want my daughters to know what it looks like. What does a, what does a godly man look like and what, what does she need to be looking for? And you know, one of the things we're realizing now too is as this book has come out, women are buying it. Probably more than men, maybe even because they, I think they're just giving it like, I need my son to have this.
And so in, in the same way, it's [00:03:00] important for me to be involved in a conversation about biblical womanhood. That's really important for me. Yeah. It's important for our ladies to be in conversations about biblical manhood.
Tony: That's so good. Now this idea of biblical manhood is such a small part of your ministry.
I ask love to kind of get a, a macro perspective. People's callings. So let me ask you this you're a pastor been pastoring for a number of years. How, how would you describe the call that God has placed on your life?
Josh: Sure. I, I love, I love to preach, but I, I see that's kind of my, my real passion.
I love to preach, but I, I love to preach in that I love to lead people into the presence of God. I I love to, we have a little phrase that we use a lot. Steve Gaines is one who said it originally, but we don't plan services to attract people. We plan services to attract the presence of God. So I don't just love preaching.
I love church and I love inviting people into an atmosphere where I feel like they'll meet God and encounter God and that that will become a a desire in them. It's kind of the [00:04:00] John seven that they'll get a little taste of it and they'll come thirsty for more and they'll learn what it means to. To enjoy real intimacy with Jesus Christ.
So my staff jokes oftentimes if I'm just given a blank slate, I'm gonna do John 15 or John seven or something about intimacy with Jesus Christ. Like I just, I, I stay to our church all the time. I think if I can just get you to spend time with Jesus, you're gonna love him. And I believe that. So that's, that's really my heart.
That's really well said.
Tony: So you've been in the church game for a long time. You've been. Following Jesus for a long time. How, how do you keep your intimacy with the, the Lord fresh? I mean, it, it feels like if you're always trying to do it for others, it might be hard to maintain it in your own. Yeah. And I, I love to hear people's personal disciplines.
Josh: Sure. No, that's really important. I think the, I tell our staff a lot of times the, the temperature. I, so I would say this for a man and his family, the temperature of his man of a man's, [00:05:00] We'll oftentimes determine the temperature of the home. Hmm. That's a general principle. I think the temperature of a pastor's heart is often determining the temperature of the church.
Oh, wow. There's, there, that's not a, that's a general principle. You can take a fired up guy and put him in a cold church. Right. That, that happens. But I'm just saying over a long period of time, I believe the temperature of my heart has a greater effect on my church than almost anything. And so what I have to do is make sure my heart is, is right with God.
And so, you know, I'm consum. A lot of the word of God. I'm trying to spend time in just silence for the Lord. I, I really. I want to hear from the Lord. I want to not just, I mean, I want to hear his word, but I want that to mean something to my life, and I want, I wanna meditate on that. I, I'm really big on the, the three things in, in Matthew chapter six when Jesus says fasting, prayed and giving.
Those are three things that we know the Lord rewards and the probably the greatest reward is more of his presence, but there's other rewards too. So those three are big for me. I, I, I. I talk about those three a [00:06:00] lot just because for some reason Jesus brought up those three as specific ways to get close to his heart, and knowing that when we do it in secret, God rewards it.
So I mean, I can talk all day about this, but I, you know, I, I, my time with the Lord is, is, is really, I think the, it's just is everything flows outta that. I just feel like I can't fake it very well, and so, yeah.
Tony: Yeah. That's good. I, I I also love to steal ideas and I'm, I'm curious if you and your family do anything that maybe the rest of us could steal and make our own.
Josh: Oh, that's that's a great question. So that's good because everything I've gotten, I've stolen so from everybody. You know, I think for us made, you know, obviously Deuteronomy six has been a big effect for us, but the way it's really influenced our life as a family. We do some family devotions like we do, we in the morning before.
Everybody has to be at the table at a certain time. I mean, I have kids, I have five kids ranging from. Almost 18 to six mm. So like our schedule is [00:07:00] crazy. So if we're gonna have time at the table, it's the morning. So every morning, except for one, when I'm actually teaching Titus 10 the kids have to be at the table at a certain time.
We're going through some one 19 right now. So I'm just reading a section of some one 19 or having conversation about it. And so we do. I just find at this stage in life this idea that I used to love of, Hey, we're gonna gather everybody and we're gonna have family worship and we're all gonna sit by the fireplace and that's great.
This just in this stage does not happen very often. So we have really transitioned more into the kind of talking on the way like the, the Juro six, just as we're going Andrew. And I just want the overflow of our heart to be talking about the Lord. So I've, I've found this interesting transition cuz now I have almost three teenager.
And the parenting transition God's teaching me right now is out of the, you have to do this and you have to do this into, all right, let's talk about this. What do you think you need to do? And what would be the wise thing to do? And so having these conversations in which I'm leading them more towards wisdom and [00:08:00] not answering the question for them, but trying to get them to think about what the Lord would happen to do in certain situations.
So that's been a fun transition. I actually love.
Tony: Yeah, I've, I've got an almost 17 year old and I'm learning that if I ask more questions than give statements, there's a lot more fruit and what we get to together versus just saying, you know, thus is the rule of the house kind of thing. Yeah.
Josh: No, that's it.
And often they'll get to where you wanted them to get. You just by them getting there, you've, you've taken them so much further down the path. And the reality is like when my daughter graduates from high school this year, she's gotta learn how to do this without me in some ways. And so I want to teach her the way of wisdom in a sense.
I, I think, you know, when anybody says, I hate that line, you know, well, kids didn't come with a manual. That's the stupidest thing because the whole Bible, but the book of Proverbs, I think specifically helping lead our children the way of wisdom, that's huge. I mean, it's a conversation between a father and a son.
So but helping them navigate how to make wise choices to me is [00:09:00] the fun. I'm enjoying that.
Tony: Another question I love to ask guys who have been walking with the Lord for a while is how, how do you discern God's voice? Like, how did you know that God was like, okay, Josh, I want you to write a book on Godly manhood.
I want you to take it from the super popular book of Titus. I'm just kidding. But I like . You know, like, how do you discern
Josh: God's voice? Oh man, I can't believe you're asking this question because I had a very specific plan for preaching in the next few weeks, and I'm interrupting that for one week this week to talk about how to hear from God.
And I don't think you knew that. Like No, literally I started writing that this morning. Oh, wow. On how to hear from God because I just feel like I don't, my experience is man, I just, my relationship with the Lord is really real to me. I, I just, I enjoy the Lord and I enjoy reading. and I, I love the way in which God leads me through scripture, but also through the practical application from that scripture and [00:10:00] how God brings other people around.
So, you know, my answer to that is a few things. First of all, it has to start with a relationship with Jesus. So obviously, I think John tends a great place. So relationship with Jesus, a surrendered heart. I think if you can come to the Lord saying, I'm gonna, whatever you tell me to do, I'm not trying to get the answer.
I'm not trying to get confirmation from my answer as much as you telling me what to do. So I think a relationship, a surrendered heart, I think is a big deal. I think just tons of the word of God. So the people that are in the word of God a lot are hearing from God more. So I think that's a big one.
And then I just think the spirit of God testifying with our spirit, you know, as Romans eight talks about. So I think I'm reading the. And I can come to a passage that I've read a hundred times, but for some reason at this moment it does something in me and answers maybe a question I have or gives me direction guidance.
But that's because the spirit of God is working in that moment. So those are kind of my four things on hearing from God, like kind of [00:11:00] prerequisites to hear from God, relationship and surrender, and the word of God in the spirit of God. I think I really believe a person that is living in that realm. Those things are real to them as much as we can in our.
Those people hear from God. I think that God, God speaks in a real way.
Tony: Now, my listeners would beat me if I didn't ask where can they go to hear the sermon that you're gonna preach this weekend, which will actually be after this is released. But I'm sure people want to go back and listen. Where's the best place to catch a sermon at?
Josh: So I'm at Prince Avenue Baptist Church, and that's p a c.org, so p prince avenue baptist church pbc.org. I'm normally preaching through books of the Bible. That's my bread and butter. That's what I do right now in this season. I'm doing nine weeks on the presence of God from the Bible. I started that series with Genesis to Revelation that the whole storyline of the Bible follows God's presence.
Hmm. And then how? Enjoy his presence, experience his presence expand his presence. So that's this series. But I'm doing [00:12:00] one right now on how, if we're going to enjoy the presence of God and experience God, we have to know how to hear from God and we have to connect in that way. So that's
Tony: the, well, and that's, that's just God cuz I had no idea that you're doing that this weekend.
And that's 10 30, 22. We'll link to that in the show. That's the weekend that he's preaching this message. I know. I'm gonna go listen to it cuz cuz I think it might be from God for one of us. For sure. That's awesome. How, how did you know it was time to write a book on, on godly manhood? I, I, you know, manhood and, and I was a soldier for a long time and ministered to a lot of soldiers as a chaplain's assistant.
And I, I think manhood and just masculinity and as a whole has been really, Attack. How, how did you decide to like, okay, this is the topic that I'm gonna go after in this season?
Josh: Yeah, yeah. Well, I've gotta go back. I'll, I'll make it quick. But so 15 years ago, about 15, 16 years ago, was first time pastors, like 32 years old at a, a good church, but smaller church [00:13:00] and couldn't afford more staff, but needed more guys.
And I was watching something happen. I had these charter members, like guys that were there when the church started and they were. Hmm. And I wasn't seeing another generation coming in their place. And these were men like committed to the church. They would tell me all kinds of stories about the offering plate was passed on a Sunday morning.
There wasn't enough to pay the pastors, so they'd get out their wallets and pay the pastors. So these kind wow. And they were dying and I didn't see any more. And I needed men. I needed help. And so, honestly, I prayed through this for a while and I decided to take 10 minute a time for 10 weeks and take him through the book of.
That's 15 years ago, 10 minutes . And so, and there was, it had to be different age groups. So I had like guys in their eighties all the way down to their twenties. And the format was, we start, I talk about Titus, we discuss it, we walk straight through the text, and then the last 20 minutes, one guy a week has to give his story and just tell how he's doing.
Mm. And. L I'd never seen this before. I just tried it, [00:14:00] thought this is something, I gotta try this. And the Lord just started to bless it. And so over a period of time, I had taken 120 men, 10 at a time through the Book of Titus. Wow. It started out as being just exposition. Over the years I started to see, Basically 10 foundations for manhood from the book of Titus.
And I say from the book of Titus, some is from the context of Titus, some is from, I tell people this is not a commentary on Titus. I have that, but that's not what this is. This is . This is basically topics for manhood from Titus. But there's a reason, I mean, Titus and Paul's relationship is incredible. And then the first thing Paul says to Titus is, I left you here and create, to put what remains in order and you need to appoint elders.
So the first thing Paul tells Titu, Find good men. Yeah. And here's what they look like and here's how they need to act at home and here's how they need to act in the church and here's how they need to act in the workplace. TI three. So to answer your question, I just started teaching this a couple of years ago.
I was thinking about doing more [00:15:00] education and a very good friend of mine said, I think that's a dumb idea, . I think if you're going, if you're gonna spend that much time with five kids in a church, you ought. And I'd already done a couple of things. My dissertation on pre-teen was published and I this Christ Center Exposition series, I co-authored one of those volumes.
And so I'd done some things, but I just kind of pitched this out there and, you know, people wanted to do it, so they were excited about it. But it came out of, honestly, 15 years of immersing myself in this book with men.
Tony: So that's a long time to be in small groups and to be in the, in the practice of that you know, you basically, Have, have walked with an entire generation.
One of the things that you talk about is the difference or the importance of having older and younger men in the same space. Right. I'm wondering if you could kind of expound upon that and, and maybe talk to the person who's listening, who, who doesn't have someone in their life, who's older, who they can turn [00:16:00] to, and, and how do we find that?
Josh: Yeah, this is a deep conviction for me. I mean, I think we see it in Titus too, and we talk about that for women a lot because the older women and younger women need each other. But I, it's certainly true for the men as well. I, I've had the privilege of, of being in churches, so I've only pastored, I pastored one church for 11 years and now I'm in another church where I hope to die, so 90 times soon.
But eventually, and I, both of those churches have been multi-generational churches. When I first started this Titus 10 groups. I don't know why, but I felt like it needed to be different age groups. So it wasn't like I never advertised it. I would pick guys and what I would realize is this, a young guy would tell his story and he would talk about his struggles and he would talk about his difficulties in a marriage or in the workplace.
And what I realized is there was a guy over there, 60 years older. That had already done all of that. Mm. Like he knew the answers to that. And it happened to me in that first little session where a guy who, I still remember his name, I knew his story and I heard this young guy [00:17:00] communicating all of his struggles.
And I remember just being able to say, Hey, you two need to get together. If you two could have a conversation together. I think you could go a long way. So that kind of became a conviction, and I've just seen that over the years. And the way I do this now is I do larger groups teaching, but I, they're round tables of six to eight and the diversity there makes a difference.
So we're in a college town. I'm in Athens, Georgia, tons of college students. When I can put our college student at a table with an older guy, that makes all the difference in the world. They love it. And so I think so. For the younger guys, like your question was, I feel like sometimes the impetus is on them to go find an older guy to talk to.
I think sometimes an older guy's gonna go, well, why would I think you would want to talk to me? Hmm. So I think often when an older guy approaches a younger guy that doesn't usually work like, Hey, I'd like to mentor you, but when a younger guy approaches an older guy and say, I'd like for you to spend time with me, then that does work.
And the way I say it, I [00:18:00] talk about this in the book a little. Like, it doesn't have to be weird. Like you don't have to go to an older guy and say, would you spend the next 18 months meeting with me, man? Invite a guy to lunch. Like I tell our college guys that all the time, like find an old guy, which I think I'm now in that category.
Find an old guy and inviting to lunch and buy his lunch. He'll probably buy yours. But so just doing something to initiate those kind of conversations is.
Tony: Hey guys, just pausing this conversation with Pastor Josh to remind you the Spirit and Truth Conference is coming up in just a couple of months.
Now is the time to reserve your ticket. It'll be March 9th through 11th here in Beaver Creek, Ohio. We're so excited to have Kim Moss, Matt Reynolds, Maggie Olmer, and Emma Winchester, David, so many incredible leaders, theologians, people who want to help you give fresh breath into your life with. And because you're part of the Reclamation community, we have a discount code for you.
If you go to Spirit and truth.life/conference [00:19:00] and register and on checkout, use the code podcast. You'll save $30 off the already discounted registration fee. You're gonna wanna make sure you sign up for this conference. It's gonna be so much fun. Can't wait to see you guys there. Now let's finish up this conversation with Pastor Josh.
My other question, 15 years of doing. A similar Bible study, the same kind of study. Yeah. What, how have you changed ?
Josh: Nobody has asked me that question. That's a really good question. I think I've deepened specifically how I've changed as I've done this class. It is probably more and more stirred up my passion for men.
That was never like my thing, that wasn't gonna be my thing, that I was gonna talk to men or whatever. But I just think the more I do it, the more I realize how much guys need it, how much guys are hungry for it. And, and, and the difference it makes to invest in a, in a, in a man and what that can do to his family.
And so I think it's given [00:20:00] me a much deeper passion to do more of this. It's funny, I, I'll get done sometimes teaching ti to 10 and all the guys are discussing cuz they have discussion questions. And I'll walk away and I'll say to the Lord, Lord, if you want me to spend the rest of my life doing this, I'll do it.
Like sitting around talking to a bunch of guys about just loving Jesus and loving their wives and working hard at home. Those kind of things, like I can do that the rest of my life. So I think what's changed me is just I'm more and more passionate about investing in men than I ever have been before.
That's not going down. That's going up.
Tony: Do you think that the local church, and this is an unfair question to ask you, so I'm sorry in advance, , do, do you think that the local church has neglected men for, for the last couple of decades? What, what do you think happened? That we stopped trying and, and I'm not talking about like putting men in leadership.
Clearly that's still happening, but in the sense of like [00:21:00] nurturing Godly men, it just doesn't seem to be a, a, a very attractive way to grow a church. Right. Yet scripture's clear that this is important. Where do you think we messed it up as the local church and I, I've been a pastor in the local church for over a decade now myself, and I feel highly convicted about this.
Josh: So let me say first since we encourage the women to listen, I think we've haven't done a good job of doing this with the women either. So as the guy with four daughters but we're talking about men here, right? So let me just say, I think here's, here's what I think is the root issue. I think it's difficult for most pastors and I, I think this is something the last few years the Lord has really encouraged in me is to take a long term approach to ministry.
Yeah. So, you know, we're not as bad as college football coaches where we get one year to succeed or we're out. Sure. But at the same time there does, they call in a new pastor, they're expecting something great. They're kind of [00:22:00] expecting something quickly and sometimes I think we really want. Do things quickly.
Investing in men is not the quick fix, but it's much more the long term healthy fix. Yeah. So, you know, again, I spent 11 years in my last church. I, I, I invested in 120 men, 10 at a time through this. That wasn't quick. Took me a lot of years to do that. But as I look back, I think it was the most important thing I did and the, the leadership that is still in that church today, I've been gone for five.
All, I think, but one of the people in leadership went through Titus Tin, and that was years ago. So I, I think part of the root is it's just not quick and it's not easy and it doesn't seem like it bears a lot of fruit immediately. That's just discipleship, right? It, it's, it's really a long term approach.
Author by the name David Pson wrote a bunch of stuff that helped me, but one thing he talks about, and I put this in the back of my book direction over. So I, we love distance, like, how [00:23:00] far can I get as a church? And I feel like the Lord has encouraged me. Like you say, just go in the right direction.
Let me take care of the distance. And so investing in men to me is the right direction. I just let me develop some men over the next few years. And I think long term that's gonna produce a lot of fruit. But it's hard and I think it's way too much done.
Tony: Right. And I, I think we, we see Jesus with a fairly exclusive.
Kind of approach to ministry that where he preached to the multitudes, but when he really invested in people, it was the 12 or the three. And I just, I don't know many churches in today's world that would be okay if, if you're like, okay, pastor Josh, you know, there's, that's right. Thousands of people coming to Prince Avenue, but hey, I want you to only focus on 12.
Right, exactly. You'd be, you'd be out quick, real quick.
Josh: Yeah. You. Well, and I think too, there's even some models I've, there's a lot in, in mission circles and it's moved to the states quite a bit as well, but like this rapidly multipli multiplying disciples like rapid multiplication. Yeah. And I, [00:24:00] I get it, but like nothing about that process is rapid.
People have a lot of baggage. Men have a lot of baggage. Sure. And they've got a lot of issues with. They've got all issues with mom. They've got issues with something. They've got their own sexual baggage. There's just baggage. Yeah. I talk to guys a lot and they're like, I think I, I think I've got a problem with my dad.
And I'm like, well, tell me about your mom. I'm like, oh, that's the deal. That's it. Right? . So it works on both sides, but I'm just saying like, that process with Jesus. It wasn't quick multiplication and I'm not sure it was ever intended to be. Ministry is people. Yeah. And it's not progra, it's people. And that's just a really long, it's that Eugene Peterson.
It's a long obedience in the same direction. Right. Like I just gotta keep doing the same thing for a long time.
Tony: So in the book you go through 10 different chapters, 10 different parts of this letter. Let me ask you this. Which one is the one that you enjoy the most? Like, which one is you're like, this is the week, here we go.
You [00:25:00] know, suns out, guns out, let's go. Yeah, that's a, that's a tough question.
Josh: I would, There's some doctrinal stuff that I love. Like I have one chapter on doctrine, which what I'm doing is I'm saying, men, you guys need to develop your theological mind. So many men in our church are like the least theologically trained.
So I love all that stuff, but I honestly, the chapter on identity, Hmm. When I can start talking to a guy about the difference between identity and assignments, identity is who you are, assignment is what you do, and if your assignment becomes your identity, so your job. Your kids and all of a sudden they're gone.
All of a sudden you don't know who you are anymore. Hmm. So I get really excited about helping guys develop a more core identity in who they are as a follower of Jesus Christ. So that, that, to me, that fires me up. And I think for that one, the reason I love it so much is I see the light come on. Yeah.
Guys starting to see, wait, my assignment has been my identity, man, that's a fragile place cuz assignments are fragile [00:26:00] and they're changing. Identity is not fragile or changing. And so I love, I love talking about that.
Tony: One of the things, if I recall correctly in that section is about this idea of, of kind of like a curse of words and about how people speak over your identity.
How, how important is it to be intentional about the men that you're letting as a guy and women for women speak, or, or maybe just older people speak over you to, I, I'm wondering if you could kind of drill down on that a little.
Josh: Yeah. So I tell a story in there about how a pastor by the name of Tom lf came and visited my church one time, and he preached on the curse of words.
And I thought, well, that's a weird thing. And basically what he's talking about is all of us have these things that have been said over us at certain times in our life, and oftentimes they stick in our minds. They replay over and over. I tell some really powerful stories in the book about some guys that have had these happen to them and they don't even realize it.
And so we have. I mean, by curse, I mean it's, it's kind of been a baggage that's that's kept us from being who [00:27:00] God wants us to be. And so so I think a lot of guys walk around with us, you know, there, there's something even to that little inner monologue of, I'm such an idiot, or, you know, we, we, one of the things we say to our kids a lot is, you, you cannot make, you are statements to your siblings.
You can make, you are being statements, meaning it is right and appropriate to say you are being. Sure. But you cannot say you are annoying. That's different. Hmm. And those you are statements define us. Hmm. So we try to be careful at our house of UR statements. A lot of people have some UR statements that have really put some serious kind of ruts in their brain and, and they're affecting them.
So we're, what we try to do is say, okay, what are those? And then those need to be replaced by blessing, which Ephesians one and other places, God is blessing us and we need other people around. Who are giving the opposite of that, they're giving words of blessing. They're just, they're speaking truth over us and that's not happening a lot.
So that's even the way to me, what's [00:28:00] significant about, about the Titus 10 is not just the content, but the, the context in which guys study it. So the way I do it now, I was doing 10 at a time. I can't do that bigger church now. So I'm having guys sit around tables. And I don't ever promote Titus 10. I invest in a group of guys and then those guys do the next group.
So they then say, I'm gonna lead a table. They pick six guys. So they already have a relationship with the guys at their table. And then hopefully we're cultivating a, a kind of a, a culture there. We're speaking life and blessing into these guys. Well, and that's, lemme just say this like, yeah, I think the baptism of Jesus, the baptism of Jesus.
Yeah. Like I talk about this in the book, but every kid wants to. In some way what Jesus heard from his father in front of everyone, you're my beloved son and who I will please. You're mine. I accept you. You're my beloved. I love you. That's affirmation. And I'm pleased with you. Like that's what everybody wants to hear.
Every kid wants to hear. I love you. I'm glad you're mine and I'm really proud of you. [00:29:00] And that's why God, the father says to Jesus, yeah, but most guys didn't get that
Tony: and. 20 guys that just had to pull off on the side of the road, they started weeping immediately.
Josh: Man, it's true. Like that's what every kid needs to hear from their parents.
And most guys, if, if a guy grew up, let's say with a girl, but we're talking about minute. Yeah. If a guy grew up and he never heard that, I love you. I'm glad you're mine and I'm proud of you. That leaves a lot of wounds and that's the kind of stuff we want to heal and get a guy moving forward.
Tony: So that's the chapter that gets you the most fired up.
Of course, the flip side to that. What's the one that brings you the most? I'm, I'm not gonna say hard because you've been teasing this long enough that none of it's super hard. But what I am gonna say is, what's the part that is the hardest for you personally? The most convicting chapter. When it, when it comes to it, every, every time that you teach it, you're like, right.
You gotta have that self-talk moment. Okay, Josh, it's, it's, you gotta surrender this to the Lord because you know, you [00:30:00] can't do it on your own. And like, what's the one that. And, and if I'm stepping too much on your toes, let me know. I don't want
Josh: to No, this is good. So where we first started going, I'm gonna take the easy way out first.
The, the, the first chapter on Dominion. Mm-hmm. is the hardest for me in that I feel like even saying, I tell the guys when I preached, I feel like a bunch of ladies are over me going, what are you talking about Dominion for? You know, so, right. But it's really foundational. So that one to me always is hard.
But I. To be honest with you, this is gonna sound strange because the whole context of this conversation is me writing a book about doing this. But the last chapter on investments Yeah, is probably the most convicting because I am the book by saying here's how we make investments in people in the future and, and how we invest what God has given us into others.
And that's a big titis. And I, I, I think for me yeah, that's just always a heart. I love the, I love the upfront. When I'm getting into the one-on-one discipleship, that's always harder for me. It's just not natural for me. [00:31:00] So I always feel like I'm preaching that chapter and I'm feeling convicted that I need to be making more than just a public investment, but more private investment in guys, and I do some of that.
It's just all of us are wired differently, so my default is not, I can't wait to spend time with a couple of guys. I like the 10, I like the thousand. It's the one on one that's a little more difficult for me usually.
Tony: I I, I have similar troubles, similar convictions, and so yeah, I'm, I'm in a season where I'm trying to tithe my week in disciple making relationships.
Josh: Wow, that's a great word.
Tony: And and so I, I try to give four hours a week to, since I'm in the ministry, I can do two hours during my work day, and then I try to do two hours outside of my work day Wow. In pouring into guys because I'm so bad like I can be. So I'm very relational, but I can, I'm so haphazard about it.
I'm not very intentional. Right. And what we see in scripture and what we see in Titus is that intentionality. Like, you know, [00:32:00] Paul wrote the letter for a purpose. And very much. And so that's the part for me that because I'm so relational, I really have to be lean on my intentional side in order to get to the fruit that I think that the Lord calls
us
Josh: to.
So, sure. Well, I think that's why ministry's not a one size fits all. I mean, guys have different gifts and dispositions and some things are more challenging, but at the same time, I, you know, ministering to the masses is great, but we've gotta make sure that there's some personal investment we're making and a lot of people around.
How, how old is your son? So he's six, he's about to be seven. So he was, that's a longer story, but yeah, it's kind of an amazing story. So when my, well, we got time. We're here. This
Tony: is a long form podcast. We've got plenty of time.
Josh: I had four, I had four daughters. The youngest, this was in 2013. I had four daughters.
The youngest was one, and my wife is diagnosed with stage four cancer. Oh, wow. So she had 11 centimeter tumor in her chest. She had tumor in her. She had 600 hours of chemo, 26 rounds of [00:33:00] radiation. Four spinal taps to get chemo to her brain. So it's crazy. Went through all of that. She was. She was a champ, she did it.
But we're exhausted, and we get a dog cause we're done having kids. And then find out we're having another kid, which is like a massive, and then it's a boy and I'm up reading my bible one day and I'm reading in Kings and it says never before or after was there a king like Josiah who followed the Lord with all his heart, soul, and strength.
And I. Josiah, that's a good name. He could inherit all of my monogrammed stuff, you know, if he had my sin initials , I thought, I wonder what the name Josiah means? And I looked it up and it means the Lord has healed. So he's a little testimony to the Lord's healing power. Matter of fact, the books dedicated to him, but we often joke that all of the chemo and radiation went into to Andrea and made one superhero, and he's just like all over the place.
But he is awesome. . So
Tony: when you think about Titus 10 and your son do you think, and, and this is kind of a, I'm gonna go abstract here for [00:34:00] a second. Yeah. Do you think that do you think that you'll teach it to 'em or do you think that one of the guys that you've taught Titus 10 will teach it to 'em?
How, what, what's kind of the role in parenting versus disciple making when it comes to men? Yeah, because I, I'm not sure that I could have heard the. From my father who's a great man, but that I heard from my spiritual father who was the guy who discipled me. Talk to us a little bit about that. Man,
Josh: totally agree with that.
So I think obviously that we talked about that blessing of your children and, and all of that. There's something I can give my son that no one else can give him. Absolutely. And there's things that other men can give him that I can't give him. And so when I think about just my own spiritual journey, and my dad doing what he needed to do.
But the amount of men that poured into me that said things to me that I would've never listened if my dad probably did say 'em to me. I just didn't hear 'em. Right. So I, I think it's a big deal for my daughters to have an a [00:35:00] lady, not my wife, investing in them and my son to have some guys investing in him.
So I think, honestly, when you say that, I would love to be teaching Titus 10 and seeing him at a table. Six other guys and discussing it and, and and talking about it without me at the table. Cuz he's gonna say stuff there he wouldn't say in front of me probably.
Tony: I'm wondering if you could talk to the man or the woman who doesn't have a father figure in their life.
Yeah. Right. And, and they feel like they have no basis for even where to start. Can, can you give them kind of just a message of hope or. , you know, some words for them about how maybe a resource like this could impact their generational
Josh: lineage. Yeah, I love that. Well, I think so. First of all, I would say it has to start somewhere, right?
So yeah, some man in our family started it. So start number two. God has given you a real gift of a church. Well, you need a church. If you don't have a. [00:36:00] The church, I, I make a little case in this book that I almost took out. .
Tony: I'm glad you didn't. But in,
Josh: in some ways, the, the church has a great, a greater priority than the family.
Not even as much as time, but in terms of, in eternity, my nuclear family will not exist, but the family of God's gonna exist forever. Mm-hmm. The bride of Christ has higher priority, and so all of that. So I would just, What was lacking and missing in your life from a man in the home. God created a church to give you that.
And the whole book of Titus was written to this church, and this is hugely significant, where everybody was a first generation Christian. So Paul left Titus and Crete and he said, go here and fix this thing. And this was all first generation believers. So every elder he put in place, every pastor he put in place was gonna be a first generation.
So it started somewhere and it has to start. So there's a lot of hope in that a legacy starts somewhere for a family. God has given [00:37:00] you a church to help you meet some men who will invest in you. And if you're in a church that doesn't have those men, you may need to find a church that does and you gotta pursue that.
I think a young guy has to pursue that. We talked about that, but just there's a lot of. It's gotta start somewhere. I have a picture, I'm looking at it. I can look over my computer and look at, there's a picture of a really old guy. It's a black and white photo. It's really, really old. It was four generations ago.
The first guy in our family that gave his life to Christ on a train when his wife was dying. And his last, his wife's dying wish was, give your life to Jesus. He did. And I'm fourth generation preacher on both sides of my family after that. So somebody's gotta start it.
Tony: Yeah. That's so good. That's so good.
Okay, I have one, one more question for you. But before I ask it, I know that my listeners are gonna want to get connected to you all over the innerwebs. We've already linked to pab c.org so they can listen to the message. But where are all the things, where can they go to find all things, Josh?[00:38:00]
Josh: Yeah, so, well there's, there's Josh Smith because he has five kids in a church, does not do a lot of things online. So I notice that, I did notice
Tony: that pastor, I did notice that.
Josh: It's funny cause when, when they start first talking about like, publicizing your book, you're like, we need all of your media stuff.
I'm like, ah, sorry. So for the health of my own soul I still have a Twitter account, which is out there. It's just Jay Smith. I don't have anything else. I have no Instagram, Facebook, anything. All of our sermons and archives are on our website@pabc.org. Uh, the Titus 10, uh, and that's the Titus, but 10 is one zero.com.
Has a bunch of resources for the Book of Titus. Has discussion questions, has a couple videos on how I use the book and all that kind of stuff. And like I said, I've got a couple of other books out and stuff, but man, everything about this is good and fun. But a few years ago when I moved here to Athens, I felt like the way the Lord was really leading me is, Josh, you take care.
You love your family, love your local church, and if no one else ever knows you exist, that's okay. [00:39:00] So that's. Kind of part of the work that God's done in my life. And if God wants to do something with this book, that's great. I pray he uses it. I want the, don't want it to be used a lot by the local church.
It was written for the church, particularly for pastors and any guy in the church. But so because of that, I, you know, I'm not out there as much. Praise
Tony: God. No, that's good. . That's real good. Okay, last question. I always love to ask people. It's an advice question. I'm gonna ask you to go back and give yourself one piece of.
But I get to name the time and day. Okay. I wanna take you back to the conclusion of your very first Titus 10 meeting. All the guys from your very first church just left the meeting. You're feeling excited, but unsure about what's gonna happen next. If you could pull up a chair in front of that young man.
Look him in the eyes. Hold his hands. Yeah. What's the one piece of advice you're gonna give?
Josh: I've never been asked this question, but I have an immediate answer. [00:40:00] I would look at him and say, this was not worthless. Mm. I think where I was feeling probably at the end of that Titus hit is, did this do anything?
This was a lot of early mornings for a lot of weeks, and what I didn't know then is 10 years from then, I would leave that church and men would come and hug me at my reception and they would cry, this is no joke. And they would say, thank you. Yeah. And so I think I would say, Hey, just keep doing this.
Relax. And there's some long term fruit here that you may never see, but it's, it's bearing fruit. And I, I think that's what God's taught me from doing this for so long, that man, if you'll just make some investments, some foundational investment over the long period of time, and you can be okay with that, it's gonna bear a lot of fruit.
So I wish I would've known back then I had less ANGs. Frustration to produce things quickly.
Tony: Amen. Pastor, thank you so much for being so generous with your time today. Thank you for your heart, for the local church [00:41:00] and for disciple making. I'm really thankful for our, our dialogue today, and I want you to know that I, I'd love to support you in any future way that I can.
Whether it be this book or the next book or whatever, whatever we can do to stay connected,
Josh: let's do it. Well, not all interviews were the same. This has been a super blessing, man. This has been super encouraging. Thank you. And it is amazing how God led our conversations and some of the questions you ask.
These were great questions and and any way, you know, you talked about getting ahold of me. Like if you contact me through the church, if there's any pastor out there or men's leader that wants to know how to do this more, call me, email me, whatever. I'll, I'll talk to you. I would love to talk more about this, but thanks for this time.
This has been a. Guys,
Tony: I just love his heart. I love the way he talks about godly manhood. I love the way that this has been proven over time. It's not very often you see a book that kind of been formed over years and years and years of practical application by the author. So do me a favor, follow Pastor Josh on Twitter.
Let 'em know that you heard him here on the Reclamation Podcast. [00:42:00] And guys, we're so thankful for each and every one of you. Can't wait to connect with you later this week in a monologue episode. And remember, guys, if you wanna follow Jesus, you must be willing to move.
