#88: Benjamin Lundquist: Rise and Lead
Benjamin Lundquist is a transformational leader who helps people get unstuck. He hosts a podcast and coaches leaders all over the globe. As you kick off 2021 you need to hear what Benjamin has to say!
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EP. 88 Benjamin Lundquist
Tony: Hello everyone. And welcome back to the reclamation podcast, where our goal is to help you reclaim good practices for faith and life. Happy 2021, the first episode of the new year and it's episode number 88, I get to sit down with rise and lead podcast, host Benjamin Lundquist, Benjamin. And I talk about God's vision.
What that will require of you and leadership heading into the new year. He talks a lot about his.
A foundation essentially has calling authenticity, passion, courage, and hunger. He is a inspirational motivational, and you're going to love to get to know him on a personal level.
He's got a tremendous story as always. It means so much to us.
If you leave a rating or review those on iTunes really help. You know, kind of boost searchability. So every time you leave a rating or review, it really makes a huge difference in getting the word out about what God is doing on this platform. Subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.
And thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We appreciate you being a part of this community. So without any further ado, here's my conversation. With the host of the rise and lead podcast, Benjamin Lundquist.
Benjamin. Thank you so much for being on the podcast today. I love leadership and you are the guru of leadership. Thank you for your time. I really appreciate it today.
Benjamin: Yeah, no, no. It's it's, it's an honor Tony and just excited to have this conversation with you and yeah. Believe in that. We're gonna together pull out some great content.
Tony: Well, I want to start with a great piece of content that you have put out recently on your Instagram, by the way, for not following Benjamin on Instagram pause this podcast, go follow him, Benjamin Lundquist.
And you're going to love his no fluff content. And part of that was what you put out recently about the most important leadership skill of 2020. It was empathy. Now I, when I read that, I was like, dang, he's coming in hot. Tell me a little bit about that and, and your thoughts around empathy and why it was so important for 2020.
Benjamin: Yeah. I think, you know, empathy, I would say is a skill that I've grown into and it's a skill that I'm continuing to grow. And what I mean by that is I think. You know, I, you learn about empathy from watching it modeled most by other people. And I think one of the things I've learned a lot about leadership is that leadership is really caught more than it is taught.
And so the greatest impact, as far as my own leadership growth is me watching other leaders lead well and speak into my life. And so I would, I would never want to give the impression that I've always been this highly empathetic person. I think that's a. It's you know, as a skill and approach to life that that I've grown in from watching other people do that well.
And when I put that quote up there, Tony, when I think about empathy, empathy is not sympathy, empathy and sympathy are very different. You know, sympathy almost says, I feel sorry for your situation and your circumstance, but. Empathy says, I want to see what you're seeing. I want to hear what you're hearing and I want to understand the journey that you're going through.
And so empathy really for me, if I could paint a picture, empathy is sitting on the curb next to someone and listening to understand, not listening, to respond. And I think that's a really important part of this empathy conversation is, and I'm sure you've been there too when. You're sharing your heart and your story with somebody.
And you know, the person that you're listening, that's listening to you is waiting for a break to insert their comment or their response and empathy. Sometimes doesn't ever have a response and it doesn't have a comment and it doesn't have a explanation as to why somebody is going through what they're going through.
The goal of empathy is to serve. Somebody else by listening and trying to understand their journey. And I think for the reason I put that quote up on Instagram, you know, is in, in 2020 and, and everybody, I think realizes this people are going through so much almost to the point where. We can't even articulate how we're doing emotionally, what we're feeling, what we're experiencing, because it's so complex and multifaceted.
So for me, you know, we can always put out more leadership content and we can put out tips and tricks and how to make it through the end of 2020 and launch well in 2021. But I think more than advice, people just need empathy right now. They need somebody to say. How are you doing Tony? What has this year meant to your family?
What has it meant to your ministry? What is it meant to your community there in Ohio? And I think there is just power in empathy and in some of the most. Powerful conversations that I've had with young leaders. And I had one with somebody yesterday for about an hour, some of the most powerful conversations I have given no advice.
And I have said very little, but I have listened really well. And so I think there is just something about listening with that approach to empathy that says I value enough to shut my mouth and listen to what you have to say, because you have a story. That deserves to be heard. And you're going through a lot right now.
And I want to honor what you are going through in 2020, by practicing empathy and trying to put myself in your shoes and understand what you're going through. No.
Tony: I love that. I think it's, I think it's crucial. I'm going to put you on the spot for a second. Was there a moment in life when you realized that, that you needed to to gain that skill?
Because it's clear that, that you're, and we'll jump into a little bit more of your story in a little bit, but it's clear that you've been learning. As you go your entire life that's as I've, I've kind of dove into your life. That was a theme that was very evident. When did you say man, I need, I need empathy.
I need to learn that skill of empathy. Was there a particular moment? And then
Benjamin: how did you pursue that? Yeah, that, that's a great question. I think, you know, early on. When I left university and started a journey as a pastor and I, I had gone to school in Tennessee and then ended up launching my pastoral ministry out in Arizona.
And I think coming out of university, you know, and this is mid twenties. I felt such a pressure to have every right. Answer for every single question and to really be a solution provider for people. And if I'm honest, there were times when I was just making up answers on the spot, because, because I didn't want to give the impression that I wasn't.
Capable, you know, of speaking into this moment. And I think what I recognize is that people are not looking for solutions as much as they're looking for connection and, and people are discipled and they're grown and they're developed out of relationship. And so I think for me, it was a re it was a reflection process over time where I thought to myself, God has given me this incredible one-time shot.
At this life to make the impact for his cause with the gifts and the abilities that he has given me. And I, and I just reflected on all the situations where I was just trying to be the answer, man. And I was trying to give the solutions and solve people's problems and I look back and I thought that's not creating the impact that I really hope.
That it would. And I think for me, there was this aha moment that that relationship is where you make the greatest impact in somebody's life. And so out of that aha moment about the need to connect relationally. That's when I begin to just watch people who were practicing empathy really well. And so I think there was no, it wasn't an overnight pivot.
It was a. Over many years, pivot of just trying to lean more into relationships and listening and valuing people. And what I saw Tony is that my impact on people begin to grow exponentially because I was investing relationally instead of approaching conversations as the expert. And I think, you know, I don't know who said the quote.
It's not my quote, but. You know, people people don't care about what you have to say until they know how much you really care. And so I think for me, it was just a journey of reflection and recognizing that my impact was greater when my focus was on stewarding the relationship well and approaching that relationship with empathy.
And I think there's, there's almost no. No greater value that you can place on the life of somebody else than being willing to lean into their story and be able to tell somebody your story matters. And you have a story that that deserves to be heard, and you have experiences that need to be validated by the attention that I'm going to give you in this moment to just open your heart up and speak and share them.
And what I found by doing that. You know over time is that people, as you build that trust up, they'll ask you to speak into their life. You don't have to force it. They want you to share because they know how much you care.
Tony: One of the things that we often talk about here in the disciple-making relationship at the, at the church is that we have to invite people in before we can challenge them.
And it's that same principle that you can't just shake a Bible at someone in hopes that they'll just. You know, share all of their greatest sins, but it really requires that life on life relationship. And you, you actually seem like a really relational guy. We're we're recording this in early December.
It's going to drop in January at the beginning of January. Kind of getting people geared up for the new year. And I love to talk about circle of influence, which is a theme that I've seen in some of your work. How do you know. When you've got the right number of people and the right mix of people in your circle, because it seems like for a relational guy, like you certainly relational guy like me, it would be easy to overflow my, my life with people, but not all of them may be helping me get to where I want to go.
What's the tension in that for you. And, and I know you coach clients all over the place, how do you know when you're like, ah, I'm at my limit, I gotta. I got to set a boundary here and cut some people out or, or it's time to let a man go or however you want to say it.
Benjamin: Yeah, I think that's a great question.
And you know, I really believe and have experienced this in my life. That we're only as good as that inner circle that we surround ourselves with. And there are so many leaders. And maybe this, maybe this speaks in the heart of somebody listening to your podcast. There are so many leaders that are leading solo.
They don't have anybody. And every day is a battlefield of survival because they don't have anybody lifting up their arms and carrying them forward. So I could tell you Tony, that there was no way that I would have grown. And, and would be where I'm at today had other people not carried me forward. So I know the value of having those people in your life.
And I guess a couple of comments that I would share on kind of building that inner circle. How do you know if you have the right circle? What do you do if you have somebody that's that's, that's that's wrong in your circle? Right? I, a couple of things I would share would be. When you look at the life of Jesus, Jesus had multilayers of community within his life.
It wasn't just, he didn't just interact with one layer of community. And what I mean by that is Jesus interacted with the crowd and he taught and he did miracles and he loved, and he shared hope. He also below the crowd level, he interacted with his companions. And I would say those were his chosen disciples that he was doing life with for three plus years.
So we had the crowd, he had his traveling companions and they walked and did ministry. Everywhere within that region. But then he had his confidence, which were Peter James and John. So even, and then, you know, the Holy spirit, you know, kind of at the garage, but you can just see that Jesus, his interaction with community was multi-layered.
And I think for so many people, we don't often describe it in that way. So we think about, well, you need to have people in your life. So people just start inviting people like, Oh, I want this person and this person. And I think we've gotta be much more intentional. Then that you need to interact with the crowd in Ohio.
You need to have people that you are that are your traveling companions and you're doing life with, but you also need that inner circle of confidence when you are at your weakest. And when you need to be uplifted, you're going to text message or thread that group and say, gentlemen, ladies, you got to lift me up.
Like I'm going through some stuff right now. And I need people. So if you're talking about that, Inner circle for me, it's less about the number and it's more about what you are going through in your current season and what you need and what is going to set you best up to maximize how you can serve other people.
So for me, a good assessment question of your inner circle would be, are the people. That are the closest to me right now, are they helping me grow in the areas that I want to grow in, in my life? And if, if you, if you recognize, you know, even going into 2021, I want to grow as a pastor. I want to grow as a husband.
I want to grow as a father. I want to grow as a community influencer. My question would be. When you take a look at your inner circle is your inner circle, helping you grow in the areas of your life that matter most. And if you're not growing in those areas or your circle is not providing that sport support, you may need to change up your circle because I think your circle really is there to help you become the best version of yourself in the areas of your life that you want to grow the most.
And so I'll just say this and this may step on a few people's toes, but that's okay. I like it. When you, when you think about your, your circle, nobody in your circle is neutral. Nobody in your inner circle, people are either holding you back or they're moving you forward, but there is no neutrality in your circle.
And so I think you have to honestly assess, and it's, it's not personal on whether you like or don't like that person. It is personal. On how they're affecting your life. But I think you got to ask yourself and assess honestly, is the circle that I am the most closely and intimately connected with. Are they moving me forward to God's mission plan and purpose for my life?
And you may think that's selfish. Listen. Fulfilling God's purpose for your life is never selfish. It's essential. And you are going to do the same thing for somebody else. But I think you've got to ask yourself those questions who is in my circle right now. And some people are there because you've intentionally invited them.
Other people are there by default because you may have known them. You know, since college, they could be family, friends, but you've got to assess is the circle moving? You were. You feel like God has taken you when and where you need to go and where you need to grow. And ultimately your circle should be expanding your impact so you can reach and love and empower more people.
And one thing that I learned from a friend of mine who used to be the president of catalyst conference, his name was Brad Loma, Nick. And we've joined together for quite a while. Brad shared this aha moment with me on one of my podcast episodes. And he said this, he said, we have three main facets to our life.
You have your identity and that's who you are. You know, I have found that in Jesus, as a son of God, on my best days, and as a son of God, on my worst days, I claim who Jesus says that I am. Every single day, sometimes Tony and multiple times a day. Cause, cause it's hard, man. I mean that'll preach lit, literally stumped.
Yeah. I have to be the own referee of my life. And I've got to call a time out and say, Benjamin, you are speaking a lie over your life in this moment. That is not in harmony with who God says you are. So, you know, Brad talks about you got your identity, that's who you are and then you have your purpose and your purpose.
Is really what you do with your life to make your impact with the gifts and the abilities that God has given you. So you got your identity and your purpose. And then here was the aha moment that Brad shared with me. He said, but that purpose is made up of so many life assignments. And for me, all of a sudden that.
The lights came on, that I have this overarching purpose in my life, but it's made up of so many micro assignments and all of a sudden I thought, okay, I get that. So the challenge for all of us is what is the assignment that God has you in currently? And how can you be faithful and fruitful to your current life assignment?
And so, you know, I, I think, you know, where you are in your community, where I am in my community, what does it mean to be faithful and fruitful right now when this assignment and where I come back around full circle to your question about that inner circle. So, so the, the point being where, whatever assignment you're in the inner circle that you have.
Needs to support you in being faithful and fruitful to the current assignment that you're in right now. And so, you know, again, I think it's, it's a lot of reflection and there are people that have been part of my circle for 20 years, Tony and there have also been people that have been part of my circle for only a season.
And I think that's one thing we have to give ourselves. Permission to do is just recognize not every person in your circle needs to roll with you for life. There are just people that may be that God may have brought to you to empower and support and grow you for a season. And so just recognize that, you know, bring the lifers with you.
For life, but recognize you don't have to bring every person from one season to another. It's assessing what is God calling me to do one season of life of my end. What's my assignment. And who was going to help me be faithful and fruitful to my current assignment that God has for me.
Tony: Well, and one of the things that it feels like it goes really well, is that not everyone needs to stay in the same circle of accessibility in every season, right?
Like sometimes somebody who is a confidant in your twenties may not be the confidant that you need in your thirties or forties. Right. Like some of my friends who don't have kids, they can't really speak to what it means to be a good dad. They're still great people, but. When it comes to that assignment, that's not a space where I want to give them a ton of room to speak in to my life.
Am I tracking on that the right way?
Benjamin: Love that. And maybe you could say it like this. There are times. And again, it's not. It's not personal to people, but it is personal to your calling and your assignment. There are times when people need to be removed from your VIP section to a regular seat, and we just gotta be okay with that.
And again, it's about. The purpose and the assignment that God has for you at this point in your life. And just recognizing, I may love that person, but I may not need them to be in that confidant circle to fulfill what God is calling me to fulfill in my life in this moment.
Tony: So one of the things that I've, I've been really impressed with with your story is that God is, has shifted your assignment a couple of times.
And I'm going to take you to a specific time your, your third year of college, you leave college to go and teach. And I was hoping that you might tell that story and, and share how God kind of put you in this assignment as pastor, even though you didn't want anything to do with it.
Benjamin: Yeah, you bet.
And so I often, when I'm talking with university, students will mention the fact that I had seven or eight declared majors in college. And so if anybody can relate on listen to your podcasts, Tony, I just a struggle of trying to find your purpose and not knowing your direction that what God was doing.
I lived in that space for years and it was just, I think for me, a matter of Really surrendering my journey to God, asking him to fully guide and lead my life. And then really just taking a step back and patiently watching what doors was God opening up and when not opens up a door, I think it's, it's an.
Opportunity for all of us to say, either you're going to step through the door in faith, or you're going to stand back and be frozen in fear. So, you know, that, that for me was, was kind of my journey. I had declared major number seven. I had no idea what I was doing. And so I ended up taking a year off and going to an Island in the South Pacific.
The islands called Ponapay and I had the opportunity to teach fourth grade at a small Christian school on that Island. And what happened during that teaching year? Is that I fell in love with sharing Jesus and the gospel with kids. And I had 21 kids in my little fourth grade class, and we would open up God's word and we would tell stories and we would pray together.
And I would talk about how. They had a father, I heavenly father who would never abuse them, who was never going to get drunk and become abusive, who was going to love them unconditionally, who was always going to be there for them. And that wasn't the reality for so many of these kids. Sure. So I think that message really connected.
And so throughout that year and, and a couple other opportunities to do some preaching Bible studies. Again, I fell in love with Sharon Jesus and the gospel, and it was during that experience that I felt a call to ministry. And I knew a little bit about ministry, not because any one of my family had been a pastor, but I had done some work at summer camp.
And I love the ministry of working at camps. I mean, it was just like the campfire program, you know, water sports, the whole camp environment. So I took it off.
Tony: Certain level of intensity that I like is attractive to guys like you and I.
Benjamin: I, yeah, absolutely. I love it. And so I felt, I think what I understood at the time to be a calling to ministry.
And so I told God, I said, I'm gonna, I'm gonna. Put out a couple requirements. And I, and I said, God, I will accept this call to ministry, whatever that means. I didn't, you know, that that was for God to craft and create, but here are my two requirements. My requirements are that I I will do anything you want me to do, but I don't want to be a pastor.
That's what I said. You can do anything with me in ministry, but I don't want to be a pastor at the time, what I knew about pastors. And I don't know if anybody can relate to this, but at me in that moment, what I knew about pastors is they were so boring. Right? And I just had not met, met a pastor who had spoken life into me growing up.
And the thing is they're out there a hundred percent. I just hadn't had that experience. So pastors were boring and the other thing was, they were so poor financially. And so, and so I thought to myself, I don't want to be boring. Like my calling is not to be boring. And my calling certainly is not to be poor.
So anyway, so God like, okay. Yeah, thanks for giving those to me now, why don't you just allow me to lead your life? And so I finally after having been at that school for a while, told the first person that I was going to. Work for God for the rest of my life. And the part of my story, that was a real pivot point for me, that really affirmed God's calling for me.
And everybody has that affirmation in different ways. So I just would encourage you. Don't compare my story to your story or your story to my story. Every got affirms in different ways. And, but for me, I told the first person that I was going to work for God for the rest of my life and long story short.
About 18 hours after I made that public statement to somebody for the first time in my life, I fell 50 feet off a cliff. While I was hiking there on the Island, kind of running a little camping tour, one evening I fell 50 feet off a cliff, landed on a pile of rocks. And when my friends that were there with me found me, they were convinced my back was broken and.
Rush me to a hospital. And when I went to the rural hospital there on the Island, they took x-rays. And I remember just lying there on this table in a waiting room. And the doctor coming back in from checking out the x-rays and as he comes through the silver, aluminum swinging doors, he comes in, he stands right by my bed that I was laying on.
And he said, I don't know how to explain this. But he said, I looked at your x-rays multiple times, you fell 50 feet off a cliff and you don't have a single broken bone in your entire body. And he said, I, he said, I looked at your at your back because that was a big concern for us. When you came in, you don't have a single, a broken bone in your entire body, your back, your spine, everything is perfectly aligned.
And I walked out of the hospital a day later from that experience. And so for me, You know, that was, I think, just affirmation on a couple of different levels that, that life is very fragile. I think that was one that life is very fragile. That life is an absolute gift and I, I just want to. Speak this into anybody who's listened to your podcast.
Your life right now is a gift, and there is a reason for your existence and God has a plan and an incredible purpose for you, just like he did for me. And so I left teaching went back to my. University outside of Chattanooga, Tennessee, and I switched majors to theology. That was my final major. And then that law that launched the last 20 years of my life pastoring at a local church doing administrative ministry, which is what I'm doing now.
And it's been a great journey, but that's kind of how that pivot happened in my life.
Tony: Well, and what I love about that is there's a nuance to this story that you told in your podcast that. About your dad and your dad was in upstate New York. And at the same time you were in the hospital room where he had no idea what was happening with your dad.
Benjamin: Yeah, that, that was an interesting part of the story. When I left the hospital about a day and a half. After recovering and they were making sure I was okay. I took a couple of days off of teaching my fourth grade class and I was laying on a, on a bed, just recovering, taking it. Easy phone call gets patched diem.
I pick up the phone call that, you know, people knew I was in that room. So the phone call went to me and there's just some people that you, when you hear their voice, Tony know who that is. And I picked up the phone and it was my dad. I knew his voice right away. And he didn't. He didn't give any small talk.
Didn't talk about the weather politics, whatever he simply said, what happened to you? And I said, why would you ask me that question? And I said, well, actually I, I, I had a fall and my dad said, are you are you. Late sitting down and I said, no, I'm laying down. And so my dad tells me, which is just mind blowing.
He said, let me tell you a story about you. So my dad says couple of days earlier, he was in bed, upstate New York laying next to my mom's sleep in middle of the night. And he said he heard God's voice say. Get up and pray for the life of your son. My dad, not knowing if he heard that correctly kind of stalls out in the bed.
He's just laying, laying there and he heard God say that or impressed that same thought upon him again. Pray for the life of your son. So my dad gets out of bed. He kneels down and he begins to pray that God would have mercy and grace upon my life. And that God would spare my life. Take care of me, protect me.
And my dad said what time did you fall? And I told them what time I fell. And he said he began to get choked up and you could tell that there were most of the flood Gates of emotion will begin to come open. And my dad said, Some, you may not have made this connection, but. I was on my knees, praying for you and upstate New York at the exact moment that you were in the South Pacific falling, 50 feet off a cliff.
Ooh. And so we just, we didn't say anything, Tony, for, you know, probably a good 60 seconds that we just kind of sat in that space of God is so real and God is so loving and God is so present and somebody. In 2020 needs to maybe just hear that statement. God is so present with what we are going through. He is so engaged in our story.
And, and for me, that just became affirmation again, of the fact that God does love me and that God does have a plan and a purpose for my life. Some, yeah. So my dad and I, we carried that story with us and there'll be, you know, probably every two years or so. My dad just retired in, in Southern Oregon, but we'll just be riding in the car and I'll tell my dad, Hey.
Take me back and let's revisit it again. And you know, it's, it's still, it's still is emotional, you know, to just sure. Yeah. Know what God does.
Tony: I mean, when the Holy Spirit's working like that, I think that there's nothing that matches. And for me, that's one of the things that, that I'm super passionate about as the on wonder of God. I think we we've, we've kind of relegated God to this little box and we want him to work just on Sundays or just when it's convenient and. We forget that the God of the miracles that we read about in the scripture is still the God in people's lives today. And that I know that there are some people out there who are praying for a miracle. How do we, how do we encourage them as pastors to believe that that a miracle can come, even though it may not look like the miracle you're drawing up.
Benjamin: Yeah, I think that's, I think that's a great question. I, 100%, 100% believe that miracles fully Papen like they did in scripture today. And I think one thing that I, that I have chosen to take on as a leadership approach and, and this'll play into your question, Tony, is that a vision?
For life and a vision for our leadership, a vision for our impact. If it is a vision from God, it will require God for that vision to become a reality. And what I have just learned along the way is that if you don't need God, it's not God's vision because God's vision for your life, for your marriage, for your fatherhood, for your business, for your church, for your community.
God's. Vision will require the workings and the power of God for that vision to become a reality. So my question would be, you know, for anybody who is wondering, where are the miracles, my question would be, what kind of vision is leading your life? And. Are you putting yourself out there and are you teak taking leaps of faith?
And are you stepping into the unknown? I love the song oceans. You remember that song?
Tony: Oh yeah.
Benjamin: A group of leaders and I, we were at a conference called catalyst when a Hillsong United saying oceans for the first time.
Tony: What year was that? Cause I was at catalyst. What, well, what year was that?
Benjamin: This was catalyst West. And I I'm going to say I went to 13, 14, somewhere in there. But my question would be when you, when you think about miracles and why they're not happening, are you putting yourself into a situation where a miracle needs to happen? And so I think with that vision thing, there's some of us, we need a bigger vision because the vision for our life, we can do it on our own.
And I get I'd come back to, if you can accomplish your vision on your own, it's not God's vision for your life. Because God's vision will require God. He is working at his power for that vision to become reality. So I would just encourage people, put yourself out there, take risks, realize that you are never a failure because of who.
Jesus God already says that you are so don't fear, failure. Put yourself out there where miracles are possible at where miracles become necessities, because you are stepping out in faith.
One of the things that I love about your rise and lead podcast is you've got some foundations that you've built upon, right?
And you've got the five essentials for the rise and lead foundation, and I'm going to run through them real quick. And then I have a question. Number one is calling a number two, authenticity, number three, passion, number four, courage. Number five hunger out of those five. And I'm going to ask this, like picking a child, I think which one do you think is most important for leaders?
To start with? Cause when I, when I read the list, it feels kinda, you know, like, Oh man, I don't know if I have all five of those, but I've. I probably got one or two at least which ones, which one is like, do not pass, go without you're one of these five.
Yeah, I'm going to, I'm going to say 100%, no hesitation.
It's CA it's calling. And when, when I think about calling I'm calling is really the crossroads. Of of your identity and the gifts and the abilities and passions that God has given you. So for me, the foundation for my life and my leadership, it goes back to who does God say that I am? And, and I can tell you that there have been so many.
Challenges in my leadership and so many moments where I could give up or I could continue going. And I always have to go back to who does God say that I am? And so for me, that idea of identity, knowing who you are and knowing that you are called to something, is what keeps me going in those moments.
When, when you're living out 2020, and this year is hard, you know, Yeah. Are you reflecting back on 2020? So for me, it's that, it's that idea of calling. And when I think about calling. If you go to Matthew four 19, when Jesus calls his disciples, he, he says, follow me and I will make you fishers of men.
And so when I think about calling for me, I see. Every one of us having a dual calling that our first calling is we are called to follow Jesus. That's our Supreme calling and we are called to follow Jesus. And our second calling is that we are called to do something with the life that he has given us scripture talks about that being fishers of men.
But the idea of calling is. I'm called to Jesus. And so every day I wake up and make that declaration. My name is is Benjamin Lundquist and I am a chosen, loved anointed and called son of God. And I am choosing to follow Jesus this day with my life. And secondly, I am. I am going to lean into the calling of maximizing the gifts and the abilities and the passions that God has given me.
So for me, calling it's foundational that you know who you are following and out of who you are following Tony, you know, even on your worst days, you know who you, you know, who you are. And I think it goes back to leadership is hard. Ministry is hard. Marriage could be hard, five minutes, very hard. But even in those, in those moments that are hard.
Going back to, I still know who I am and I still know what God says about me. And I still know that I'm called to Jesus every day. And I am called to use those gifts and the abilities that God has given me to, to impact the world. So for me, out of those five foundational. Pillars or puzzle pieces that, that calling one, I think is, is such a foundational piece that I would say that's the most important everybody has to ask themselves on the daily.
Have I chosen to follow Jesus today? Have I chosen to do that. And am I going to choose to maximize the gifts and the abilities and the opportunities that God has given me. And there's people that have called me this year and they've said, ah, I just, I'm lost in 2020, my hands are tied. What am I supposed to be doing?
And I often tell them, hang on a minute. 2020, even in the struggle, it's about opportunities. And there are opportunities in 2020 that didn't exist in 2019. So when you think about that second calling, yeah, we can mourn 2019 and we can say, Aw, we wish we wish we could have, we could experience life and leadership before COVID.
Just don't even go there because we're, we're done with, I think morning, what was it's about building something better and looking at those opportunities that we have. So again, for me, calling is every day choosing to follow Jesus. Allowing him to give you your identity and claiming that every day, and then leaning into that calling to maximize the opportunities that we have.
And so for me, that's why calling, I think is so significant.
Tony: Well, and I think it goes back to what you were saying earlier about assignment, right? Like calling is how you see the world and assignment is just the environment that's directly in front of you. And you have to use your calling in the environment.
Therefore you have to use your calling in your assignment. Right. And the assignment may change, but the calling sounds like won't really change much.
Benjamin: Yeah. Yeah, I think that's true. I think, you know, I think it ebbs and flows over your lifetime. But for me, like if somebody were to ask me Benjamin, what is your calling?
I believe my calling is to share a freeing, empowering gospel with the world and grow leaders. That's what I feel I have been called to do. It's going to look different depending on my life assignment, but I feel like. For the last 20 years, that has been a consistent calling and passion that I have had on my life.
It's going to look a little different. But if somebody is. Thinking to themselves, where do I even start trying to figure out that calling? Because I think we think about that a lot. Couple of things I would share one would be from my own struggle with my seven or eight declared majors in college, I would just encourage anybody.
Your calling is so much bigger than your career and your calling can never be contained in a career. And I think sometimes we obsess over career because we think career is, is synonymous with calling a career is how you make a living. And you hope you hope your career is in alignment with your calling, but your calling is what you do, Tony with your life.
You don't ever turn off your calling. Your calling is you don't, you don't. Punch a timecard on your collar. You live that out 24 seven, right? Know, when I get a text message from, you know, an emerging leader at nine 30, who's in crisis, I'm going to live out my calling at nine 30, even though my day job may have stopped at five 30 because that's, that's the calling that God has for me.
And so a couple of things I would just share, just fun questions for reflection. What would you take a 50% salary cut to do and still do it because you love that thing so much. Another question, what would you do for free? Because you are so passionate about that thing. Often you can get some good data and evidence about your calling.
Another couple of questions would be, what did you love to do as a kid? Because often what we love to do as children, we still love to do those things today. They just look a little bit more adult-ish sure. So think about what you love to do as a kid. And then two, two final questions, you know, just for reflection, maybe take 30 minutes over this next weekend and think about some of these.
Another question would be when is the last time in your life that a day flew by. And you lost track of time because you loved what you were doing so much. And what were you doing in that moment when, when you lost track of time, because it flew by, it's going to give you some, it's going to help you to have clarity on what some of your passions might be.
And final question that I would give you for Rick for reflection. Would be what breaks your heart? Because often you can go back to the story of Nehemiah. Yeah. Which just screams leadership narrative, but you can go back, you can go back to the story of Nehemiah, that first person narrative. And I, we could do another episode all about that, but the, the question of what breaks your heart, because often.
What breaks your heart the most is what God is calling you into to create the greatest change. So what breaks your heart for Nehemiah? For Nehemiah? It was the broken condition of his city, physically and spiritually. And he couldn't let that just sit, you know, he had to act and lean in. So a couple of questions for reflection.
Tony: Well, I mean, it's, it's obvious that you are so good at what God's called you to do and coaching leaders. And I know you do that for leaders all over the country. As you think about the people that you're coaching and the leaders And kind of what you're planning for on the rise and lead podcasts.
What's the word that God's giving you for 20, 21? Is there something concrete? Is it, is it an expression of empathy played out more or kind of where, where do you see give us, give us a little prophecy for 2021.
Benjamin: If I were to, if I were to give you three words that I, that I, that I had been on my radar kind of on my heart, you know, last little bit of 2020, and then us launching a 2021, a couple of words I would think about when it comes to leadership and, and your influence ministry the first word would be empowerment.
Anyone. Who is leading or doing ministry who is not empowering. People will lose all relevance in 2021. And I think at the core leadership is empowerment. Leaders create leaders. That's what empowerment is. That's what Jesus did you go to the great commission? We could spend another 20 minutes talking about Jesus as an empowerment model, just in the great commission.
So I think that word empowerment is a big one for 2021. If you want to be relevant. And if you want to be an effective leader forward slash influencer in 2021, you have to be an empower of people. And that really goes into multiplying yourself in others, helping people do what you are doing. So, and Powerment would be one of the first words.
The second word I would say would be a curating. And what I mean by that is I think what COVID has. Challenge just to do is that we often are going to have a much greater impact by curating small groups than pulling together big crowds. And we don't know what the crowd situation is going to be like in 2021, we don't know if we're going to be able to have massive church services again.
If there's a vaccine, you know, that that might end up happening. But I think the idea of you can cure rate groups that you can speak life into and empower. So who are the 10 to 15 people that you can give personal invites to? So you can build a curated group where you can help. Influence a small group that will have big impact.
And I I've seen that. In the business world, you are seeing all over the place, Tony, the, the pole in the draw for mastermind opportunities at our mastermind, a mastermind is an influencer who pulls together usually for quite a large fee. They pull together. A bunch of people and they're going to give one-on-one access to this curated group of people.
And I think that same model of. Yeah, we're used to focusing on the crowd, but I think in 2021, it's going to be about curating small groups. And as you curate small groups, you will multiply your impact and you may end up having a much larger impact personally than you ever would. Just speaking to a crowd.
And that could be, it could be a discipleship group in a church. It could be a small group. It could be a men's group. A women's group, a parent empowerment group, a collegiate group, but just pulling people together and speaking life into people, sharing, living the gospel with this curated group. And the last word I would share, which I thank you for bringing it up at the beginning of your podcast, which I love by the way.
You brought up that word empathy. I think empathy is, is so relevant. And I'll just say this empathy will never lose its relevancy. Ever, but I think it's come onto the radar in 2020, because we are so disconnected because people are feeling so isolated. And again, they can't even describe it with words, many people, but I think in 2021, empathy is going to be on, on the front burner.
That again, We as a church community, as, as ministry leaders, as leaders, when we listen to people and when we put ourselves in the shoes of other people, we will expand our influence and impact into the lives of others. And so I would just challenge anybody with this question. Who do you need to listen to?
Maybe it's your, maybe it's your spouse. Maybe it's your kids. Maybe it's the leaders that are on your team that don't feel listened to right now because your meetings are all one directional and they're not a conversation, but, but with empathy, who do you need to sit on the curb with? And listened to and build a relationship with.
And I think empathy, Tony is going to continue on in full force and relevancy in 2021.
Tony: Yeah, we had a, yeah, a marriage counselor on the podcast several months ago. He talks about the journey to disconnectedness. And he says that it begins with a lack of empathy that we begin to disconnect from the people in our life.
When we refuse to sit in the proverbial mud puddle with them or the curb. And I think that that's, that is a phenomenal, phenomenal word, Benjamin and I so appreciate your willingness. To give it the Ryzen Lee podcast. It is so good. You've got to go and subscribe to it right now. Listen to this podcast, subscribe to it.
If you're looking for transformational coaching, Benjamin, you do that all the time with leaders all over the country. You specialize with, with young leaders though, right? What's your, your target window is usually 20 to 40 ish.
Benjamin: Yeah, I'd say, you know, I have a passion definitely for the emerging leader and just kind of reflecting on, you know, what, what hope and empowerment do I wish people had spoken into me when I was a bit younger, but I really enjoy and love just working with leaders of.
Any age and demographic. There's some good connections I have with pastors and leaders who have been doing ministry in life for 30, 40 years. And also those college students that are feeling lost. Like I was trying to figure out who am I, what's my calling, what is God doing with my life? And so over COVID.
It's provided some unique opportunities to do a lot of kind of keynote presentations on leadership via zoom. And so, yeah, those have been really fun. Or just jump onto a zoom call with a team and just do an hour long Q and a, and just try to speak into what that team may be going through in their journey.
Tony: That's great. And the best place for people to connect with you? Instagram, is that right?
Benjamin: Yeah, that's the easiest and, and just I hate to say it because it sounds so cliche said, send me a DM, but just, you know, send me, send me a message on Instagram and I, I, without a doubt we'll read everyone that comes in, but that's probably the easiest way.
It's something over to me. Okay. Last question.
Tony: I always love to ask people. It's an advice question. So the minute that you step into your first pastoral role, I want you to go back and talk to that younger version of yourself, right? This is, this is after the fall, after the transformation, you're going to serve your very first mission as pastor Benjamin.
What's the one piece of advice that you wish you could go back and tell yourself?
Benjamin: I'm going to give you three, even though you only asked for one, that's fine. That's fine. The the one piece of advice would be the first one would be write a declaration statement about your identity every single day, whether that's it, you know, in your own handwriting on a piece of paper, whether it's.
Voice texting at a note on your, your, your app on your phone declare and see your identity at the start of every day. And the majority of ministry leaders that I have seen really struggle. 99% is a struggle that. That stems from misplaced identity. And so I would just say, you got to know who you are. I wish somebody would have said that to me, your worth and value are not determined by whether you crush that sermon or you did a horrible message, just make sure.
So I would say first piece of advice, declare your identity every single day. The second one would be start building your personal board right away. You need people around your life, ministry, life leadership, you were never designed to do that journey solo, and you will not last and have longevity in that journey if it's only you.
So I w I w I wish somebody would have said Benjamin, you need support and help begin to build that community and team around you. I had some organically, but I could've done a little better job, you know, building that group mentors. And then third thing I would say, Even though you asked for one would be commit to being a lifelong learner and build rhythms of learning in your life from the very beginning.
And what I mean by rhythms of learning, let's say that I wanted to grow as a leader. I'm passionate about that on a, you are passionate about that as well. If you want to grow as a leader a rhythm of learning might look like this. You listen to a leadership podcast. Every day. So if you're listening, listen to every podcast episode that Tony puts out every single one, but listen to a podcast episode every day, have a conversation with a mentor every week read a leadership book every month, every six months.
Pay to do a course to hone or grow a leadership or ministry skill. And then finally every year attend a leadership conference.
Tony: I love it. I love it so much. And Benjamin, I thank you so much for your generosity and for your time today, it was such a life-giving conversation and went by so fast. I just appreciate the passion, which you come into everything and, and for taking the time to, to share with my friends and listeners here on the podcast.
What an incredible conversation with Benjamin. I loved the way he talked about how empathy is the most important leadership skill in 2020. And it probably will be in 2020. One is no fluff approach to leadership is a really resonates with me or reminds me a lot of, some of the incredible mentors I've had in my life.
I just think if we can dial in, on our identity, our purpose and our assignment, God will do amazing things in us and through us. So thank you. Go follow Benjamin on all the social media platforms and get connected with him. And if there's anything that we can do to help you start off the new year in a good way, we want to do that. Again, thank you for leaving the rating review if you've done so already. And if you haven't yet, take a minute right now. Go ahead and leave us a review on iTunes. It really does make a difference. Thank you so much. And I look forward to connecting with you real soon.
