#113: Brad Lomenick: Who are you listening to?
Brad Lomenick is a leader I've been following for a long time, and one of the gifts that he gives the world is content curation.
If you've ever wrestled with who (and what) you should be listening to you are going to love this conversation with Brad.
Links:
EP. 113 Brad Lomenick
Tony: Hey everyone. Welcome back to the reclamation podcast, where our goal is to help you reclaim good practices for faith and life. Today's episode one 12 of the five guests. And I get to sit down with leader, content, curator, podcaster, and Christian, super connector. Brad laminate. I've been following Brad's career for a long time, since he was in charge of.
Yes, many, many moons ago, Brad and I talk about curation of content. We talk about leadership. We talk about the next generation of leaders. This was such a life-giving conversation for me. I really enjoyed the connection. And if you enjoyed this conversation, do me a favor. Make sure you hit the subscribe button.
So you don't miss future episodes. And also leave us a rating or review on iTunes. We're trying to get to a hundred views by the end of the year, and we need your help. Reviews on iTunes are kind of like a search parameters. They help people find the podcast and hear about what God is doing through this platform.
I'm so thankful for each and every one of you who take the time to listen. And I'm really thankful to be a part of the spirit and truth podcast network. This podcast network is all about connecting like-minded individuals and new ways. For more information on spirit and truth. Check them out spirit and truth.life.
Now without any further ado. Here's my conversation with Brad Laminack. Hey everybody. Welcome back to the podcast. I'm excited today to have one of the, kind of a lifelong mentor in my life and my ministry life, at least I hope that would make you feel old. Brad Dominick.
Brad: Mentors mentors usually have age assigned to them.
Tony: Well now in all fairness, when I started in ministry I was a little older. And when you started ministry, you were a little younger. The gap is not as big as it sounds.
And one of the things that you do better than most, most is this idea about curation, right?
And about gathering both people and content. And so I really want to talk about that for our listeners, because I think there's a lot of people out there who are, are struggling to figure out. What they should be listening to and how they should be listening. So let me start there. How, how did you kind of get on the path of putting together information and people for the sake of growth?
Brad: Well, I think I've been doing it for a long, long time. I mean, I think it's part of just wiring for me in terms of when I think curating and curation, even the idea that, you know, in your elementary days or in my elementary days, I was curating friends on the playground, you know, I mean, I was figuring out like, who needs to play on that team and who needs to play on this team and, and who, you know, who should sit together in the cafeteria.
And, and that was just a natural, I think it's part of natural leadership that you are you start to be a filter, but you're not filtering for what's best for you. You're filtering for what's best for, for others. Now the reason I'm doing it today is because. There's so much noise and the more noise there is, the more information that's just ubiquitous and it's it's readily available.
And I don't care what information that is. I mean, it can be like mindless dumb stuff, but it's also like, think of all the voices that we have access to now that can truly mentor us or, you know, mentors from a distance on YouTube and podcast and, and all these voices that we're like, oh my gosh, those are heroes.
Right. And now, you know, we just have thousands and thousands and thousands of choices. So I think in the midst of noise and almost paralysis by too many options, we need these curators who are friends. They're third party friends who say to us, listen, I I've, I've gone through. And I've, I, you know, I've come up with this 10, this list of 10, and I just think that's really valuable for people today.
And it's true in terms of what, you know, what I do on my podcast, for example, but also it's true in terms of that. I, so many, so much of the event world that I now am involved in Tony, like I'm trying to curate. And create invite only environments. Not because I want to be exclusive, but because my friends are saying, Hey, I trust you to get me together with 15 other people that I may not know, but that, you know, I should know.
And when I do that, I'm actually like adding value, but I'm, I'm, I'm creating influence and I'm, I'm connecting to people that then they go off. You know, they changed the world. So it's, it's still like for me, I mean to, to, you know, to not be cheesy, but the idea of a catalyst is that you are, you know, you're a change agent that, that creates a spark that leaves no residue of itself.
That's what a catalyst is. Like, it's something that creates change, but it's not about them or not about that. And so it's just another season for me of, of influence. Beyond sort of where I've been in the past and, you know, I just think it's, I think it's most needed right now. And the expert on the experts, you know, that's another way that I would describe it.
Like I try to be the expert on who the experts are. I don't have to be the expert. I just need to be the expert on who the expert.
Tony: So, let me ask you this. Cause I think a lot of people resonate with, they're trying to figure out which voices to listen to, and they're trying to find those trusted advisors.
How do you know who the right person to curate in versus leave out is?
Brad: That's a good question. I don't always know. Sure. So you know, I got to do the homework. I gotta, I gotta be a student. Of people I've got to I think some much of the time, what it comes back to is that as you start to build your, your trusted circle, then people will start to actually protect that trusted circle by only curating or inviting in those who should be part of it.
Right. So the, the power of the power of something like Ted, just as one example. Yeah. Is that there's almost a sense of, of everybody who's been to Ted now protects Ted from becoming something Ted doesn't want, doesn't want to become compared to just the opposite, which is, you know, some things they end up like losing they'd lose their, their identity because you've had so many people who've shown up.
Now that don't feel the weight of stewardship of let's keep this only among. The people that we want to make sure it's connected to. So to answer your question, I think the best way I do that is by doing my homework, being intentional being curious, but also that there's, there are people that now that I would say kind of are in my slip stream, that I, they trust me.
And I trust them to the point where if they say, Hey, Brad, we should invite so-and-so. Then I look at that and go. 'cause I, I just know that they are there, they're protecting the thing that, that now we're both trying to build. Right. And, and that's, you know, I think that's what true tribe, a true tribe is.
You know, that Seth Godin talks about like this idea that people like us do things like this, you know? And, and when you, when you see movements, that was the thing with catalyst. I think that that for all those years, one of the real power. Of catalyst having more influence was that there was a sense of ownership among the people who attended.
And it was like, really, like, you feel like you're part of this thing. And they're like, yeah. And so much of it was, was was sort of the intangibles. I think of that. There was just a spirit of, of, we want this thing to be so great. That we're going to, it's not like we're going to not tell people about it, but we almost don't want to tell people about it.
Right?
Tony: Well, I, I can remember telling my lead pastor at the time, I was like, well, this is really just for young leaders. Exactly. You know, because I was always really good at tact.
Brad: Well, there was that sense of like, I'm not even sure I want that other leader to come. Not because I don't love them. I sort of want it to myself or, you know, I only want to there's there's like this sense of identity that comes from it and you start to see people that look like that.
And we have to be careful that it's not exclusivity. It's not arrogance. It's not all those things, but you know, there is, there's just a S there is a there's a deep seated hunger in all of us. And, you know, for every pastor listening, I think. Th the, the three greatest felt needs for people today.
And it just, the world and culture is, is who am I? Why am I here? And who do I belong to? Yeah. You know, like the identity question, the purpose question, and then the community question and that community question, who do I belong to is really about the, you know, who, who now are you, are you doing life with who, who do you feel like you connect most.
Th this is, this is why like, you know, whoever your sneaker brand is, you know, whoever, whoever you go to for your, you know, your fashion outlet. So much of it is not about the fashion. It's not about what you're wearing. It's about what, how it makes you feel, right? It's about, oh, like, you know, people like us where we, we wear air Jordan.
Right. And that, cause it's pretty much all the same leather.
Tony: Sure. Yeah. Or Toms or, you know, Sperrys or whatever. Right. Like, yeah, that makes sense. It'd be, it's become part of our identity and it's, it's become kind of a calling card.
Brad: There's a deeper, emotional connection. So many times that even going back to the question of, you know, how do you, how do you think about the curation side?
How do you actually build connection points with, with a circle of people? Well, there's, there's all of a sudden these words you use and there's things you wear and there's things you say, and there's, there's the approach that you have. And it's all this stuff that now starts to like, make up this, this tangible ingredient that people, when they see it, they're like, oh, I connect.
Tony: Well, one of the things that I have noticed just kind of watching you from a distance is that you're really good about bringing people in for experiences and that, that feels like it's a part of your connection. I I'm curious what's your assessment on, on the health of leaders coming, hopefully coming out of COVID I guess, you know, we can say that safely now.
I mean how do you feel. The leaders that are in your circle, the li leaders you've curated. How are they doing at at leading?
Brad: Yeah, it's a good question. I think there is a I think the jury's still out one, because obviously when you start looking at the, you know, the, the lag measure of eight, 14, or 15 months of a pandemic, we still work.
It's the wild, wild west still like we're, we're still like trying to figure. How do we actually lead in that? Not, and not even to the point of what are the measurable results of that. So there's, there's still a lot of things to be, to be figured out, to be analyzed. The data is not in yet. But I do know this one a lot of leaders who, who I would say have done well, or at least they feel like they've gotten through this.
They, the reason so many of them did is because adaptability change the ability to pivot all those things were already in play for them. They weren't, they weren't necessarily trying to, to, to like work out a new muscle. Yeah. It was already there. And, you know, it's that, that idea that crisis creates opportunity, you know, grit, some leaders, they, they thrive in crisis.
So the ones who I think have, have stepped out of this last season and they look around and go, man, I felt like I crushed it are the ones probably who embrace change naturally. And there's a lot of those, like I think, I think a lot of leaders actually, who are, who are pioneer spirits. Yeah. They, if so many of us, so many of us, we almost feel guilty with looking back and going.
That was fun. Right, because there's just so much like downside to it. There's so much like death and, and disappointment and frustration. And like a lot of people have really struggled, but you know, there's a lot of pioneers who were like, and if I'm honest, I actually like really thrived during the season.
So to me, that's the story. That's not getting out their mind. Sure. Because we're hearing like the worst thing ever, you know, and yeah. But it's also perhaps the best season ever for, for a lot of leaders. So to be honest, those are a lot of the stories I hear because I think so many of my friends are pioneers.
Like they're like, man, never before I've had more opportunities, you know, never before have I seen this kind of like growth. And you know, you're also hearing that from a lot of churches. A lot of churches had their best financial year ever in the history of their church. Now you could argue that a lot of those are larger.
A lot of those they already had mobile or digital giving in place, just, just around one area, which is finances. So many of them, they were already set up for for a, for an opportunity for people to continue to give generously to them. Through means, which didn't have to change much. Right. But I, I mean, I've heard that story over and over from a lot of churches, which is like 20, 20 was our best year ever financially.
I'm like, wait, really? Okay, that we're not hearing that on then, you know, on the evening news.
Tony: Sure. And I, you know, I think a lot of it obviously has to do with the, the community that you're in and how many jobs were affected and, you know, those kinds of things. Of course, that all plays in, but that was certainly the case here at restoration.
They we, we ended the year. In a really strong financial position. When would you start at the pandemic? I, everyone was, you know, we pulled everything back. We pulled back all the reigns and said, Hey, let's be cautious. And then, you know, going into 2021, it's like, okay, let's, let's open the flood gates here a little bit and see what we can do.
And, and so that, that certainly resonates. Let me make it a little bit more personal for you. You know, you're you're consultant, author, speaker, you do a lot of different things. How, how did you survive the pandemic and how do you feel now about yourself coming out?
Brad: You know, I'm, I'm actually, like, I would say two sides of the same coin.
One is that never, never in the last, like 25 years, did I ever slow down as much as I had to me, meaning like taking more time to. To exercise too. You're a big wilderness guy, right? Yeah. Hunting, fishing.
Tony: I did see a picture of you on Instagram fishing with air pods in that everyone was talking about.
Brad: Yeah, exactly. It's like, wait, is that, is that even, is that even like, don't ignore the fish.
Tony: That's a good looking fish.
Brad: Exactly. Yeah. But I was, you know, at that I was probably like listening to a podcast.
Tony: I think you said you were listening to worship. I kind of read through some of the comments. You're like listening to some worship, but you know, that's how we fill our buckets.
Brad: Right, exactly. So on that side, I felt like I would have th th that the pandemic forced a break for every single person in the world and me being one of those, and I wouldn't have slowed down, you know, So that, that was like, thank you. I mean, that was life giving. And also now it's that question of, okay.
What are the, what are the things that happened during the pandemic that we now want to keep in place going forward? And this is true, both in your personal life. For me, it's also like, well, why, why, why can't I spend a lot of time hunting and fishing and. Why, why am I like putting those things to the side, snow skiing, like anything outdoors I need to, like, I need to put those rocks in first into the new, you know, the, sort of the new rhythm of schedule.
But the other thing is there's, there's also these, these adaptions and pivots that I've seen a lot, especially a lot of churches do that. Now. I'm like, wait guys, don't, don't kill them. Yeah. Like why, why are we getting rid of the daily Bible study that was happening at noon Monday through Friday during the pandemic that every marketplace leader was like, thank you for finally creating something that I can be part of that allows me to like get in the word in a very very like appropriate, but also convenient way.
And a lot of churches are now like, they're, they're going back to. Well, let's just go back to what we were doing before, you know, Sunday's coming let's program Sunday. Let's like put our energy back into attendance and I'm kind of waving the flag going stop. I mean, yes, that's important, but all those things that you started during the pandemic, like let's, let's not kill all those.
Let's keep 75% of them around because you didn't think they were. As the pastor, but everybody else in your congregation was like, finally, you're finally getting the idea of like Monday through Friday really does matter.
Tony: Yeah. And making content available whenever somebody wants to consume, it just feels like the church might then only be a decade behind the rest of the world instead of several decades, as sometimes we're accustomed to.
Brad: And you can argue, you know, around the content.
And I get it like. But at the same time discipleship. Yeah. Right. I mean, it's, it's that idea of, of so many churches were putting discipleship metrics and, and outlets in place daily, or at least like weekly that looked like Tuesday night or Wednesday morning or Wednesday at noon or, you know, Thursday get together.
And so many of those things now we're all as. As participants in and owners and creators in the house, you know, the local church house, we're all saying, Hey, I, I know we got to get back to Sunday, but let's, let's make sure we don't get rid of the stuff that actually is helping us grow as followers of Jesus.
And you know, it's just, it's so easy for any of us. I don't care who you are to go back. Like the idea of let's go back to what it was March of 2020. And we gotta be really careful about, about that.
Tony: Well, and I, I think one of the gifts of all of this is the pruning that happens in churches that, you know, like there, there's no longer an excuse to say, Hey, well, somebody in your church doesn't know how to do a zoom meeting or somebody in your church.
Right? Like at this point in time, if you don't know how to get on a YouVersion account and do the Bible reading plan, like it's only because you chose not to do it, you know, now we've done, we've done video too. We forced ourselves to do video tutorials to make house calls. I was pastor slash it for at least a couple of months.
And, and so that's I think that's a really, that's a really good word. You, you know, as I look at your kind of body of work, one of the things that I see pretty consistently is is you have kind of pivoted at that either the right time or you made the time right later, you know, whether that be a catalyst or some of the work that you do now.
I, I'm always love to ask people, how do you hear from God in those big life-changing moments? Like, what's your, what are your, what are your practices to hear from them?
Brad: Man. I, I, I feel like I should be asking you that question, not to volley it back, like Serena Williams, you know, hitting it back across the net.
I mean, I know this like I, I would say I I'm really intentional about listening to other people and that the wise mentors are sages in my life that, that have permission to speak. Truth over me, but also like speak prophetically into me. I always am giving more permission to them and I'm actually seeking it out.
I'm, I'm actually hungry for it in, in moments of transition almost to the point of being annoying. Like, you know, like again and again, just think of, for me again, I think of like people, people who have said things, whether it's pastors or, or authors, or just voices that I have access to. I'm like, listen, this is important to me.
This is a season I need you to actually like seek God on my behalf. And, and, you know, what's interesting about that. I found, and it may just be me, but I found that that actually is life giving to those people too. Like they, they actually, I almost think I don't want to bother you. Right. About time you asked.
Tony: Well, I mean, it's the Peter Timothy principle, right? Like when we, when we look at Peter's writing, he talks about Timothy and he says, this is my spiritual son in the faith. Everybody wants to tout their spiritual son or daughter. Right. And it feels like that's exactly what you're saying.
Brad: You got it, man.
But I mean, part of me, I'm like, you're busy and I know you get thousands of texts. And here's what I find about those kinds of people too, is they are busy, but they're really not. Like they have margin that the reason they are, who they are is because they create margin to respond, you know? So I'm actually giving them the opportunity to lean in and to live out what meant for many of them is a sense of their calling.
So that's, that's my, I mean, I, I find the most value usually from the people around me, speaking truth back into me. You know I'm, I'm definitely like in this season more recently, and this, I think it's just spiritual maturity that I'm like praying for much more of what I would say, like is, is supernatural revelation of God.
And that's a I think that's a discernment gift. I think it's a wisdom gift. I'm hoping it's true for, for like me hearing the voice of God. Yeah. But I'm finding that actually. It's like, I'm starting to do what I'm I was doing to those other people. I'm starting to like to have these moments where I, I will say to somebody again, usually younger, Hey, listen, I'm, I'm sensing that like, there's this going on in you?
And I, I think this is something that I need to speak to you. It may be totally off. And what it is is it's. I feel like it's, it's God gifting me and the spirit gifted me with supernatural revelation. Sure. And and now I'm like, man, I want more of that because when I, when it gets validated and sometimes I'm totally off, sometimes it's like, that's goofy, Brad.
Like, I don't know what you're saying, but a lot of times it's like, man, you, you just, you just said something that is life shifting and the more you get it right. The more you want of that? I found any way for me, so I'm no.
Tony: Amen. Amen. Listen, I, I, yeah, no, I agree completely. I think. Well, I mean, you can never have enough of the holy spirit.
I mean, why not? You know, the advocate then all of the things that, and when you live that it was reading the other day in acts. Right. And it's a spirit enabled. Right. And I just want to live a spirit enabled life. And that feels like that is right on target with what you you're talking about. They're like, Hey, I'm just spirit enabled.
I'm just going with it.
Brad: Absolutely man. Well, and, and that's, you know, again, for anybody who's thinking about like how they approach college people in culture who are lost as a goose, they, they, they want all of God's still. Yeah. So, you know, the old days of we sort of show up with, with this, you know, this JV version of God I just think people walking in, whether they're walking into your church or not, they are saying, okay, I'm not even sure where to start, but just give it all.
So that the place where you find exit, exit, exit Jesus and expression, you know, that's where the hot zones are.
Tony: Well, I think, you know, if you, if you couple this with what's happening in the, with the pandemic, what we've got as this kind of God ordained collision between experiential, holy spirit filled worship and really good opportunities to engage on every other day of the week, you know, and that feels, that feels like where the next leg of the, the church history will be.
Hopefully. I mean, that's my prayer, at least that I think that's how we get to revival.
Brad: I agree, man. I mean, you know, look at what Maverick city music.
I mean those cats, I mean, I don't, I, you know, I know some of them, but it, it really is like just a fresh experience.
Yeah. And, and again, it's, it's a, it's a mashup it's it's unity. It's it's You know, it feels like it's not, it's not anti, it's not anti what it has been. It's not a, it's not like you know responding to something that I didn't like, but it's just a fresh expression. And, you know, every generation has a fresh expression.
That's why, like, when I, when I, again, when I think of catalyst or other movements, but I'll just talk about capitalists, like the, you know, the, the, the power of 20 years. Of gathering leaders. Like if that, if, if catalyst never gathers, if catalyst ever does another event, it's like, man, that was a great run guys.
That was 20 years of like incredible impact on a generation. And sometimes like, we need to just, we need to let those things stop. Yeah. Or die or move on because God uses it for a certain season. And then there's a fresh express. Hm. And so many times you know, movements, churches, events, you're like, wait, you're still around.
And some of us need to, like, we need to fire ourselves. You know, we don't need to be the 60 year old, still trying to like still trying to lead the young leader movement. And everybody's looking at us going seriously, bro. Like, I love you, but. Enough already like that it's time for a new leader to take the reins and create something right.
Tony: Well, and for all of our listeners, if you haven't if you, if you haven't listened to Brad on Carrie new Hoff's podcast episode, I think it was 25 or 27. I'll link to it in the show notes. But you tell the story about when, when you got tapped out a catalyst and it is, it is one of those moments in, I think in life where it just, it was time and you knew it was time and it was still, but that didn't make it any less hard.
Brad: No, no, it was hard, man. It took an outside force. It took a guy named Steve Cockrum, you know, like to read me, read me the correct mail and be like, bro, you're done. Like let's, let's kill catalyst, Brad. It's time to shoot him in the head. We love him. But you know, it's time for a new season.
Tony: Yeah. Man. That's a, that's a really good prayer, I think for the church and for our friends who are listening and just like let's lean into that next season.
Cause it does feel like things are, are shifting.
Brad: And let me just say this, my story is not everybody's story because some people will say, well, Brad does that mean I have to, like, I have to, like, I can't have a run for 40 years in the same seat. No, it doesn't mean. But, you know, like we know like we're smart.
We common sense. Like we know when we're, when everybody around us is like whispering and going seriously. When is, when is he or she ever gonna realize that like, it's time? And so what we don't want to do is be the last one. Right. We want it. We want to Barry Sanders that thing, not that far, but that's good.
Tony: So let me ask you this. You've got this new ish. I mean, you're, I think you're 40 some odd episodes in to this podcast. What's your, what's your big vision with this? What do you, what do you hope to. What do you hope to do with it? I don't know, man.
Brad: Listen, I shouldn't be asking you that question.
Like give, give me some advice.
Tony: Advice is seek after people you want to talk to,
Brad: well, listen, truly like that. I just like talking to my friends and turn on the recorder and let other people listen. But I mean, my big vision truly to answer your question is curation. I mean, the reason I'm doing this podcast, cause there's, there's tons of other podcasts.
I don't, we didn't need another podcast. But, but I want to curate, so links, recommendations, resources, you know, books to read podcasts to listen to, if I'm doing that, then I can actually like add value. I think that is helpful. So that that's for me, the win is I'm trying to create the podcasts that I want to listen to, which is give me a few links that I can.
Click on and then go read that article and that's a win yeah.
Tony: With your newsletter too, right? Like, and yeah. Yeah, exactly. Well, what's the best place for our friends who are listening to connect with you online?
Brad: Yeah, either H three H three leadership.com. That's the podcast website or I mean, Brad dot com is my website, but it's kind of lame to be honest, I haven't changed it in years, man.
I need a, I need to over, I need to, I need to redo and then same handle on all the social media, but I don't, I don't post a lot. So I do a lot of it.
Tony: That's really good. Okay. Last question. I always love to ask people. It's an advice question. It's an advice question. You have to go back and give yourself one piece of advice, except I get to pick the time in your life where I get to take you to.
So in this particular case I'm going to take you to. The day after you had the conversation with Steve. And so I, if you could go back and talk to that younger version of yourself, what advice would you say?
Brad: Listen, this is a great question. I'm stealing this from you, Tony. Every episode, please do.
Gosh, this is such a good question. So so the day after I'm sitting in my office and I'm like, okay, the tension between we have an event coming. Yeah, cause that was August of 2013. I think we have an event coming up in like 60 days, 50, 50 days. And now I'm, I'm, I'm dealing with the tension of, he just told me that I needed to take a sabbatical this fall.
Right. And what does that mean? And in my, like, have I already made the decision without making the decision that it's time for me to move on? So the, the, the tension of like, there's this massive thing coming up, we're planning for, for the next year. A year out already. Sure. So what am I supposed to work on right now?
Like I'm looking at my desk, like, which, which pile do I do? I start to unpack or, you know, figure out compared to like, well, should I start getting some sabbatical books and start booking a trip to London to hang out with Steve? And like, you know, like, so the, the, the tension I felt. Was wow, this is like, this is a, this is a moment of of real lack of clarity.
Now what I would say to that leader is, is, well, you already knew the answer, Brad. That's what I would say. You already know the answer. You, you know, you, you were just waiting on somebody to tap you on the shoulder to give you permission, to like, feel okay about it. About looking around going, boy, it might be time to transition to something new.
So that's the thing that I would tell myself is you already know it. So let's, let's start putting things in place, which would have meant like literally that day, I probably should have been saying to Tyler Reagan or somebody else on the team, like, all right guys, come in, listen, we're transitioning. And I've already made the decision.
Now we don't need to tell everybody, but let's start putting things in place compared to like, Am I still gonna be okay. And you know, well, I I'm really needed cause I gotta make that decision on who's speaking next year. You know what I mean? So I, I just think when, you know, you know, and when, when you feel that so many of us is as, as, as highly ambitious leaders, we don't want to be seen as a quitter.
Yeah. But man transitions are good. Transitions are healthy transitions happen. And if we give ourselves permission to feel freedom in it, it just changes the way we approach it.
Tony: Amen. That's a great answer, Brad. Thank you so much for being so generous with your time today and connecting. I really enjoyed it and I really hope to connect again in a few.
Loved it, man. Thanks. I told you guys what a great conversation with Brad. I'm so thankful for his time, his generosity. Don't forget to check out some of his episodes. So I subscribe to the H three podcasts. Let them know that you heard about them here on the reclamation podcasts, as always. Don't forget to hit that subscribe button, maybe share this episode with a friend and let's continue to stay connected.
If you want to follow Jesus, you've gotta be willing to move.
