#100: Charles Causey: The Secret to Succeeding in Tough Conversations
Episode 100!!! We made it, and I am so thankful for everyone who has been on this journey with us.
For this important conversation, I am honored to have a lifelong mentor - Colonel Charles Causey. Charles is a leader of leaders and has specialized in how to have difficult conversations.
You are going to love Charles' insights!
Links:
EP. 100 Charles Causey
Tony: Hey everyone! Welcome back to the Reclamation Podcast! Episode 100!. The crowd goes wild. No, truly thank you so much for being a part of this community for being here for episode 100 and I've got some huge, exciting announcements. First of all. I'm excited to announce that we have partnered up with a ministry called spirit in truth.
And in that ministry, we formed the spirit intrude. Podcast network. So I can now proudly say that the reclamation podcast is brought to you by the spirit and truth podcast network. We are so thankful for this partnership of like-minded people helping promote what God is doing on all of our platforms.
There's some other podcasts out there, the plain truth, the Holy spirited podcast, and some other podcasts we'll be joining the network very soon. And so I'm so excited. You can learn more about spear and truth by going to spirits in truth.life. Again, first big announcement. Second big announcement this week on my Instagram free coffee for you.
That's right. If you're listening to this, as it releases the last week in March, this is free coffee week on my Instagram. Make sure you sign up. We'd love to get you connected. We love to say thanks. We just appreciate your support so much. Today is episode 100 and I've learned so many things along the way that I just, I can't say thank you enough for the opportunity to continue to do what I love to do.
And there wasn't a guest that I wanted more than to have one of my lifelong mentors and friends. chaplain, Colonel Charles Causey. He is this incredible leader and speaker, and he's got this brand new book out called candor. And it's the secret to succeeding at tough conversations. What an appropriate time in our nation's history for a book just like this.
So I'm super excited for you guys to listen to this conversation. Please do me a favor. Hit subscribe that way you don't miss the bonus episode coming out this week. The bonus episode, share this episode with a friend and Hey, leave us a rating or review. We're doing our very best to get the word out about all that God is doing in and through this community.
And this platform also, don't forget, you can download the full show notes and full transcripts@reclamationpodcast.com. It's. It's where all the information is. Everything you need to know. So without any further ado, here's my conversation with chaplain Colonel Charles Causey. Hey everybody. Welcome back to the podcast.
I'm excited to have a repeat guests, chaplain, Colonel Charles Kasi. One of my dearest friends, mentors, Charles. Welcome back to the podcast. You were on episode 56 and now you are episode 100.
Charles: Wow. Thank you, Tony. What an honor to join you today and the hundredth podcast. It's amazing you've done 100 too!
Tony: I often think that I must be either really enjoying it or crazy, or probably some combination of the both.
Charles: Sure.
Tony: Yeah. Well, that's for sure. And Hey, listen, I'm going to encourage of our listeners to go back to episode 56, and you can hear a little about how Charles and I kind of grew up together in terms of him mentoring me through the army and all the things. But today we're here to talk about a brand new resource that I'm super excited about, that I had the privilege of endorsing your brand new book.
Candor Charles, how does it feel to have another piece of your heart and soul out into the world for people to judge?
Charles: It makes me feel a little vulnerable to be I one of the chapters and it's probably one of my, about my favorite chapter. It's called blistering honesty with self, and I revealed some things in there that I'm not very happy about who I am and how I dealt with life, but it was.
Truthful and it happened. So I wanted to share to encourage others to be honest and vulnerable.
Tony: Well, so one of the things that really intrigued me is, is obviously, you know, I, I've known you for a long time and you've been working on You, you know, you've been working on this writing for, for quite some time.
How do you feel like God is really at work here that you've now all of a sudden got a book coming out about candor and what could arguably be described as one of the most difficult times of communication in human history.
Charles: Wow. Well, in one way, I'd have to say this is a God thing because he put this book on my heart two and a half years ago.
I had no idea that we were going to go through COVID the civil rights movement, and then the most incredible election. And then protest and Jay, I had no idea. We thought it was bad in 2016 that families weren't wanting to talk politics with each other over Thanksgiving. I don't know if you remember that.
That pales in comparison. So the think I have a book coming out now when it's almost like. In some ways the country is in an emotional civil war. And so to come out with a book, that's talking about how to get through tough conversations. I almost feel like, wow, I wish I had known some of the things that were going to happen so that I could put more in there.
But then I think, well, you know, what, if they follow the principles of the book, you know, the four keys of candor, it can't fail you.
Tony: So, but so I'm interested. I always love to look at the dedication page. And in your dedication page, you dedicated the book to your, to your two girls Madison and Hannah, who are both actually getting married this year.
They're going to enter into conversations that are going to be very candid. Why dedicate the book to them?
Charles: Oh, there's There's a couple of reasons, but the main one is that they have helped me in my own personal life. You know, if I step out of the father role and just think about them as humans and beings with personalities of their own, and they're trying to, to make it through, you know, the teenage years and the early 20 years dating college future career.
They've taught me a lot about candor and being honest. For instance, you know, when I hear my daughters, you know, get criticized for being prideful or something like that. And then they're like, yeah, you know, I think I was prideful during that and I will work on that, you know, and just be honest in the moment.
It it's striking to me. It makes me grow and it's caused me to want to have more honesty and truth with people and, and Tony actually. And I don't say this just in a. You know, a conflict mentoree way to, to warm you up or anything. Cause you know, you have my heart, but you've taught me a lot about that too, is being real in the moment and saying what's truthful having candor and I've, I've learned a lot from you as well.
But. And I would probably dedicate a book to you in the future.
Tony: Okay. Well, first of all, thank you. That's very kind of you and you know, I, you know, I love you dearly and and you've meant the world to me. How do we define candor? Let's start there in, why do you think the world has gotten away from being.
You know, loving and brutally honest thought, same time candid. I, you know, like I define it for us and then talk to us about how this has become such a problem, because if I'm honest, I don't really think that many people in the world that we live in today want to want to be candid.
Charles: Right. And the reason is that being honest with people means that you're going to be, have intimacy with them.
And typically we're scared of intimacy. We're afraid of it. And that probably comes from the fall and a lot of different things, but candor and honesty brings intimacy. You remember when we wrote the wedding book or the marriage book on breakable, we, we found that some real simple concepts were incredibly powerful, like kindness who would have thought just the simple act of being kind to a spouse could change an entire marriage or.
Honesty, and this, this goes into honesty. But you know I can't remember exactly what the first part of your question was, but Candor is just critical because a lot of information takes place before a meeting, after a meeting. And even sometimes during a meeting through people, texting each other, if it's spiritual, you know what I mean?
And but w we need the communication to take place in the meeting to help the meeting. How many times have you left the meeting? And somebody said, well, that was a stupid decision leaders made in there. And it's like, well, why didn't you say something? Well, I didn't think it would help. Well, that's part of the problem, you know, people being silent.
Tony:
Well, okay. So let's talk a little about people speaking into situations cause you know, that I'm, I love to give my opinion. When is the right time to be opinionated versus being candid? And how do you tell the difference?
Charles: Right. I think in, in normal ebb and flow of conversations, like with your family and friends and things, Th this thought of The keys of candor.
They, they should become second nature to you, but it's not something that you have to, you know, you can have opinions and you're, to be honest with where you're at, you know, especially if you're talking sports or politics or religion or something, you, you, you need to be honest with where you're at.
What I was really gunning for in this book was in several ways. One was. For leadership and organizations and meetings, people that have to lead other people. And of course, I'm in the military, it's my profession as an army chaplain. And so how do you, when you're sitting in a meeting and you hear something that you don't like or don't think sounds right, or you think is rude or obnoxious or hurting somebody else in the meeting, how do you address that?
And that's when I encourage readers to go to the four keys. And we can talk about that now. If you want.
Tony: Yeah, yeah. Let's jump right into it. Jumping into the, jump into the four keys and let's kind of go through them one by one.
Charles: Okay. So the, the, the four keys come from Ephesians chapter four, when the apostle Paul says to speak the truth in love, and he says to speak those words That will give in a timely manner.
That'll give grace to those who hear them. And so how, what I derived from that was four keys, and that is speak the unspoken truth, Ruth, whatever that might be with love as the second key at the appropriate time is the third key. And the fourth key is for the benefit of everyone in the room. And when you do that, that's, that's.
What I believe is a formula for success. If you're truly, if you're speaking the truth with love, and that's an important part, because a lot of times you don't feel loving towards some people at the right time for the benefit of everyone, not just yourself then you will be successful.
Tony: So. I mean, can I push back a little bit on these?
Is that, so you talk about with love, right? But if, you know, let's say that you're in a meeting for example, and we've all been in this meeting before. And how do you do this with love when the person is just obviously making a horrible idea? Now you and I have talked, you know, that I identify as an eight on the inner you gram.
I, I, I'm a bull in the China shop, so I like it straight, no chaser. And I think everybody should like it that way, even though I know that's not true. How do we do this with love and how do we know? What, what. What the right
Charles: amount of love is. Yeah. Part of it. And I, I talk about this in the chapter called candor with difficult people.
And that is that we were one of the key helps steps is that we restrain from emotional declarations and we resort to the facts and reaffirm our love for somebody. If we're telling them a hard thing. So you might have somebody that. It's just not getting it or, or just counter you. And so it's important maybe to verbalize it for yourself and for everybody in the room and for that person is, you know, I care about you a lot.
I care about this relationship, but this is what I'm thinking right now is that your words are harmful or your words. Aren't helping the situation. And that's my truth right now. And that's where I'm at. And I w I, I have to share that with you. Does that make sense?
Tony: Yes, it does. I, I, you know, it's, it really is kind of a nuanced approach, isn't it?
Charles: Oh, absolutely. I was in a, I shared this on the, we currently have a launch team set up. We have 75 members in our, our candor launched a Facebook private group page. And I shared this on a post yesterday, just I was in a confrontational meeting. The other day and somebody was really giving it to somebody else.
And it was like, you know, was there listening going on between each party? I'm not, I'm not sure. And I just, so I asked that the candor launch team, I said, what happens if you're trying to deliver candor and be vulnerable, but the person's not listening to you and not getting it and just keeps repeating something else, you know?
And or something that doesn't, you know, isn't what you're trying to get at. And It it's interesting. There's, there's been some comments, you know, where some people have had to do that. I've had. One person shared which I thought was so cool that they opened up and shared this, that they actually were part of a Sikh.
There, there was fear of reprisal and intimidation and their corporation. They were part of a secret vote where, cause because of that fear, they wanted people to vote, you know? Well then he said, so he voted, I guess, the wrong way or whatever, but the votes, it wasn't secret anymore. People found out.
That's really hard when the rules change, you know, and that would allow me to be angry and upset and really deal with that. And then I just go back to the keys, you know, I. It kind of goes back your mom, you say, if you don't have anything good to say about somebody, don't say it at all. And I bring out in candor, that's not true.
We need to speak hard truths with each other, but it's important to take a deep breath and do it in a loving way. We don't front stab people just for the purpose of helping us to feel.
Tony: Yeah. There's kind of a. In the way that you wrote the book, which I really appreciate it. There's kind of a, there's very various levels of candor for various groups and each kind of level almost requires it's each nuanced approach.
Talk to me about blistering honesty with self cause that, that feels like like how could I give candor to anyone else if I can't give candor to myself?
Charles: Wow. Yes. So I really believe that to be, have candor with other people. You have to have candor with yourself first, and that's not the same. I distinguished between societal candor, which is bullying and prideful and more based on ego and true candor.
And you can have societal candor without having candor of yourself. Cause it doesn't. Yeah.
Tony: What's an example of societal candor.
Charles: Somebody's coming out and calling other people names or....
Tony: Like being a troll on the, on social media.
Charles: Absolutely. Yeah. You know, gaslighting saying something to trigger a response, you know, to get people in trouble or you know, politicians when they make inflammatory comments, you know?
So anyway So there is a difference. So to have true candor, one must have candor with himself or herself. And yeah, this chapter blistering on a sea with self, I write about how people tend to wear masks and they try to create a portrait of themselves. That is very favorable to whoever they're trying to impress.
So I just ask questions in there. Why, why do we try to impress others? What is it that other people, you know, what is it in us that desires that? And why are we so wanting popular people to like us? And are we being truthful with who we are? Do we shade the truth? Do we put on a mask? Do we not allow people to see the real you?
And it was after you know, you and I went to a life success. Seminar probably 12 years ago. It was a long time ago. Oh yeah. As long time ago. And I don't know if you remember that, but people in my small group said they were very complimentary for, I guess they were doing the Oreo cookie approach.
You know, they're like you have a lot of great leadership skills and things. You can contribute in everything, but they said. We find you to be a very closed person. We don't know who you are after spending this weekend with you. And I really took that to heart, you know, I mean, I was a little bit hurt, but I was also like, wow, I want to be known as an open person.
How can I. Expect other people to open up to me in our conferences or in a counseling situation, if they find me to be closed. And I felt like I was not as effective of a minister as I could be, if I'm seen as being closed by those people that spend a few hours with me. So I really looked into that. And God dealt with me a few years ago, just through some, some really heavy heart work of why do I try to deceive?
Why do I try to shade the truth? Why do I exaggerate?
If all that makes sense.
Tony: It makes perfect sense. I don't know if you remember this, you and I were doing a military training in Rome, Georgia, right. And one of the things you pulled me aside and you said, Hey, melt, you know, like. Sometimes you raise your hand and it feels like you say things just to be S sound smart.
Wow. Do you remember that?
Charles: I don't remember.
Tony: It was good. It was good. It was really honest, candid feedback, right?
Charles: Yeah.
Tony: And well, so that's the thing, right? Like you need people who are going to love you enough to speak into your life, but You know, bringing it back to that blistering kind of honesty with self, you know, we're 12 years away from that seminar.
You, you have progressed in career and your kids are all doing great. You know, you live in Hawaii on the beach. I mean, from all accounts outside, looking in, you've got a pretty great life going. What are some of the things, your disciplines that you do to make sure that you don't put on the mask, that everything is perfect.
Charles: Yeah. Well, first of all, I have to say, I still struggle with this sometimes, you know, and I say things I regret and I have to apologize for and ask forgiveness for, and there are times Tony, I don't show a great deal of magnanimity, which means largeness of heart, you know, and grace to other people. So that's my, that's the first thing I have to tell you, but I think the, the, the chapter that's blistering honesty with self, it was, it was more if at first I was gonna say you know, honestly in our prayer lives are blistering honesty with God.
And I think it starts there is that, you know, having candor can transform your prayer life because we all know the big things about it. He's omnipotent. He is omnipresent. He cares about us and craze, all loving But when we sit down to pray, sometimes we don't get into what's really going on in our heart.
You know, we pray for other people. We pray for maybe a need of the moment for driving and where, you know, got to get home quickly or something. But so I've tried to incorporate in my prayer life. Just w where am I right now? What am I struggling with? And how that comes out in me, just in the last few years, you know, I've had a lot of back problems and things.
And part of it is just, you know, I poured my heart out to God about certain things. Lord, I, I am, my back is really hurting. I would love a miracle. I, because it's uncomfortable to pray for ourselves. You know what I mean? In our prayer times But I guess just, you know, that's part of it is being honest with God and, and prayer.
Many people say pray for revival, and I really believe prayer is revival. Whenever I really have an honest time of prayer with God where I have candor and really sharing my heart. My heart is revived. The Holy spirit is doing his work and that the spiritual part of our being. Is just being able to sing when we pray.
And we're honest with God. So yeah, I mean, there's other things, you know, we could pray, Lord, I, I want a better marriage, Lord. I'm really struggling with finances right now. I don't know what's the future's going to hold, you know, and. Lord, I, I need a breakthrough right now, or, you know, there's been times when I, and I, I get got this from Corrie 10, boom.
When I studied her life and wrote the book, the lion and the lamb where she hadn't experienced on a, on a train where. Her father was trying to prove a spiritual point to her. And she said he had her, he said, Corey, pick up my bag and is his bag of accuse a clock repairman. It was very hard. And she couldn't, she struggled with it cause he was probably just, you know, eight to 10 years old.
And she, he said, you know, Corey God I'm your father and I will carry that bag for you. And there's some times that we have to go to our father and say, I can't carry my luggage right now. Will you carry my luggage for me? It's too heavy. I need you to show up in a real way. And that's, that's what I'm talking about.
When I talk about candor and prayer and blistering honesty with self.
Tony: So let's translate that out to the next, probably outside of God and the next most important relationship, which would be marriage. Now I know your wife pretty well,
Charles: and she loves you by the way, and says, I love her. I love her.
Tony: Please tell her.
I said hi. And and you you've. You know, my wife pretty well. And so.
Charles: They're similar in some ways aren't, they.
Tony: They are, there are similar in some ways, how do we get candid in a way that doesn't seem hurtful? Right. Because I find oftentimes, especially in my marriage I don't like, it's funny, right? Because with strangers, I'm more likely to be nuanced than I am with my life.
And that could just be me, right. Like probably is just me, but. But I, I'm not as nuanced. I'm not as, as, as intentional in the dialogue. And so oftentimes candid turns into I'm sure. What feels like an attack. How do we live in that tension with the people that we're closest to.
Charles: Yeah. An answer for that is big part of that is timing.
You know, making sure that we don't do things in public to humiliate our wife. And that might even mean in front of the kids. A friend of mine from college named Mike Hendricks, Michael Hendricks. He, he wrote a book called the other half of church. It just came out. You know, in this last year from moody publishing and he talks about he, he goes in and talks about the face of God and how important it is in scripture, all throughout the, you know, the face of God and, and seeing his face and being there.
And he talks about in marriage, you know, sitting in you are a huge advocate of this. You, you brought this to our marriage conferences, sit knee to knee, right. And what does that mean? You're squared up and you're looking at each other, but he said there is an intimacy that happens just when you're looking at somebody's face.
Looking in their eyes and we need that. We need that on a daily basis. We need that from God. We need that with our spouse. And most, like you said, the most important relationship that we have outside of our relationship with God. And I think that when we sit knee to knee with our spouse in private and we're holding their hand and we're looking in their eyes and this just isn't embedded at dark at night, you know, and when a guy would want something else, but I'm talking about like in the living room you know, the kids are in bed and you're looking in their eyes and you talk to them and it's like, honey, I feel like we're miscommunicating.
I feel like I've hurt you in ways, but it's, you're not able to say it. You're maybe just, just frustrated at me and it's coming out in other ways. And I need you to share your heart with me. Or allow your spouse to share that with you. You know, just say I'm a listening ear right now. Tell me what you need to tell me.
So one, one thing I would say a big part of that is timing. Tony. For me, I know that's so important because we want to respond in the moment and we can, you know, we can all come up with smart things to say and humiliation just with your spouse. I mean, you've got like 30 years of material. Laurie knows my weaknesses.
Like you wouldn't believe. And she knows when I haven't, you know, I've told half-truths and whole lies and not been genuine to people. And it's a, life's a journey. And. It's hard, but I think, you know, the more honest we are with our spouses, the more happy of a life that we have.
Tony: So, so I'm curious, right.
You know, I, I've obviously followed your written works for a number of years. You've written historical fiction, of course, words and deeds is a tremendous resource, especially for men. And it seems like now candor you're on this kind of process of Of self-discovery of, of, you know, kind of tearing different parts of your heart, open for the world to see.
And for, for you to share with God and others, what have you learned about yourself in the midst of writing a book about the truth?
Charles: That's a heavy question. That's a big question. I will tell you the first thing that came to mind and then that Charles, because he's a liar and that my tendency is to hide the truth and deceive, and I've had that ever since I was a kid. And it's easier. It seems like to paint ourselves in a favorable light than it is to just be.
Ultra honest with people about how we're really doing. For instance, when somebody says, how are you today? What's the common response, you know, the first line of the morning are we, are we really fine? But you know, there's sometimes of course you don't have time. You're walking by somebody and there's not time to hash it out, but we've grown into this societal.
Mill, you have, you know, most people just tell each other they're fine. And we get, we move along. I guess. For me more and more as I've written words and deeds and words, and deeds was like heart surgery for me, because in some ways I wasn't a man of integrity. When I started writing that book, it was a process.
And I'll tell you what, just cleaning out different areas of our heart and our mind and things that we've hidden from God. We hide from our spouses. We hide from our best friends. And I know a lot of these sound like, you know, just flowery words, but God has worked in my life through these projects.
So we had some dear friends To our house last month. And it was really cool. It's a beautiful day. We set up a table outside right by the right by the ocean. You know, we had a lunch, this great lunch, Laurie prepared for us. And then Laurie had actually gone back in the house, probably cleaning up.
And my friends just looked at me and said, how are you doing? How are you really doing? And it was such a loving. Question 11 time of day to ask the question. You know, we weren't rushed, we weren't in a hurry to get somewhere and they allowed me just to talk about how I was really doing for a good half hour, 45 minutes.
And they listened and they cared for me and they told me they'd love to hear more. And. Those events. That'll stick with me the rest of my life, you know, when we're able to share with somebody how we're really doing. And I wouldn't have had that conversation with them five years ago, Tony. So that's the difference.
Tony: The followup question to that is what have you learned about God in the process of writing a book about, you know, candor?
Charles: Hmm. Wow. These are these are incredible questions. I wish I had ahead of time.
Tony: No, but I love, I love the natural response of it.
Charles: That's the best part. You know, one of the things I've learned is it. God has really big shoulders and he can take whatever he doesn't get ruffled. You know, he's not he's unflappable. And what is the word unflappable or in flappable? He he's he, he he's able to take everything that we can throw at him and he doesn't change, you know?
And this is one of those things where. You know, you, as you go to him day after day, and you pour out your heart and you see your life change and you see people around you, their lives change. But then you sit down by somebody on the airplane and they say, well, how do you know God is real? You know, you've got a million reasons why, but it's hard to put into words, you know, sometimes.
And it's because of the question that you ask through the process of writing this book. And learning more and more about candor and truthful conversations and what's happening, happening in business organizations and with difficult people and, and how people try to the last chapter is about charm and how so many people try to deceive others with harm instead of character.
But I've realized that, you know, God's word is true. For instance, in Proverbs I read even this morning, Proverbs 26, I think it is it says, do not answer a fool according to his folly. And then the next verse says, answer a fool, according to his folly, lest he think he's wise in his own. And it sounds like it sounds like a contradiction unless he thinks he's wise in his own eyes.
But when you really think about it, it makes so much sense what the, what the I was going to say the Psalmist, but what the writer of Proverbs was saying is that you don't answer a fool the way that they're talking to you, because that is a folly and ashamed for you. But then the next verse says, but we.
Answer a fool, according to what he's saying so that he does not continue in his way of foolishness. We rebuke him, we exhort him. We correct him at the appropriate time. Does that make sense? Am I explaining that?
Tony: Well, yeah, I know it makes, it makes a lot of good sense, right? Like it's, it's this idea that we live in the tension of, of knowing that God is always candid.
Right. And, and we have to lean into his candidness in order to find our own. Is that, I don't know if candidness is kind of the right word, but you know what I mean?
Charles: Yeah, no, no, that's great. So, okay. The third thing I'll say about this is, and you just, you just bridged it for me. So thank you. Is that the word candle is it's derived from the Latin word can DeRay, which means candle and it's to put a light on a situation.
Anything who is light, who is the author of light, who's the author of truth. It's God, God came into the world. As it says in John, he is the light of the world. His, his truth is light. His word is light. There's so much that you could, you can weave, you know, moody publishers decided to publish the book candor, not under the moody.
Moody head and they decided to publish it under Northfield press, which has a wider audience besides just a religious audience. And so they were very careful with me about how much theology and how many verses it's very limited in that this is for a written for all of society, business leaders. So I really had to refrain and rewrite a lot of parts, you know, so that it wasn't.
A book like words and deeds, that's just packed with scripture and theology. Does that make sense? But it's still there. It's still there.
Tony: I call it sneaky evangelism, right? Like it's, it's designed for the widest possible audience, but when you get in there, the biblical truths are really evident if you know the biblical truth.
And if you don't, I think the prayer for all of us has to be that the biblical truths from this book get planted in more and more places and, and really help get the word out. You, you mentioned the chapter on, on character and charm and, and I have to be honest, I really wanted to ask you about that because if I have one of the flaws that I often see in my map and myself is I have the ability to and string finders, they call it Wu, right?
Winning others over and charm is, is, you know, Is what it is. And it's something that I've sometimes I've had the ability to use. How, how do you take us through the difference between charity charm and character and why it's important for our integrity and therefore our candor.
Charles: Right. So. Charm in and of itself, isn't necessarily a, a negative word.
I mean, it means that you're attracting people, your, you know, it's like, you're a shiny object. That's that's gathering attention. But when people use charm. To win at a job interview or when it maybe being a board member at church, or to win a spouse. And not character when those, the values of the charm, you know, and the, that external stuff is used instead of these qualities of the heart of character.
And what do I mean by character? I mean, does a person have integrity as the person's words match their deeds? Are they honest over the long haul? Have they been proven to be, you know, reliable, trustworthy? If they tell you one thing on Tuesday is at the same on Friday You know, these people of character and character is only tested over time.
Whereas charm, you know, you can just have Charmin and win people over. Right. I have an example in the book, the first story is about he's actually a serial killer. He was put into prison and he You know, he, he was able to write a book and children's poetry and did all these amazing interviews and people in his home country thought that he was, you know, he'd totally been changed.
And they brought him, they got him out of this lifetime sentence out of prison, but he hadn't changed. And I asked the question in a book, what was the state of his character, you know, while he was charming people. And the fact is that he was in prison for. Murder and for other, other, other offenses, that's you rate somebody over time, you know, with their character.
And that was his character. He got out and then he murdered, you know, 10 to 12 other women after that. And they finally found out and they put them back in prison. But yeah, but I that's an extreme example. But I just, I use it cause obviously it's the last chapter of the book and by then people are ready to just rapid.
So I have this as a story. Hey, that would really be interesting to them because most people haven't heard of him. And so anyway I can't remember the last second part of your question.
Tony: Yeah, no, I think you answered it. All right. Like how do you tell the difference and how do you, how do you live in one? But I think that the. I think kind of in your story, you answered it. Right. Which is, you know, how do we stay consistent in our character over time? Charm charm is fleeting, but character's not right.
That seems like an important attribute when we're talking about this idea of candor. Yeah.
Charles: For, for a lot of people, it's more important to be seen as good rather than to actually be good. It's more important to S to receive credit for something, rather than actually doing an amazing job that nobody sees, you know, it's like, Hey, I was there.
Tony: I helped. I was part of that, that, that, well, and, and, you know, that kind of goes to that humility part and, you know, it, it, it makes sense if you follow the kind of that, that self. Awareness kind of track that you, you bring through the book and that you brought through words and deeds, right? Like that's, that's all part of the process.
Charles: Absolutely. And Tony, you know, what's happened in the last year or so, and it happens every so often, but we've had some amazing spiritual leaders that have fallen. Yeah. And what's going on there? I think a lot of what's going on is that there was a little bit of a facade. With who they really were. Of course, you know, they had a veneer of honorability and that, Hey, I'm close to God.
I'm doing well. My marriage is well, my family is well I'm and I'm preaching these incredible trues to you. And I'm going all over the world and I'm on TV, but what was really happening and that's where these books get at. Of course the people that need the books probably don't read the books, but that's what works in deeds.
And can't now candor is for everybody, not just men. But it's being honest. With, you know, how you present yourself to other people. So blistering honesty with self is, you know, dealing with yourself, your heart, your muck, and dealing with God. And, but, you know, charm versus character, that chapter, the last chapter is about presenting ourselves, other people.
But it also, you know, the last half of the chapter talks about how do you, if you're. A person of integrity. How do you deal with somebody with charm? You know, and you're trying to like, you're, you're the boss and you have this person that's just a shiny object, but there's really no work getting done.
You know, how do you deal with that?
Tony: That's so good. One of the things I appreciate about the way that you write is that you're, you're full of very tangible things. And one of the tangible tools that you included in this book are eight. Commitments about candor. And I guess one of the questions I have, and I encourage you to get the book if you're listening and, and read the eight commitments, because they're very powerful, they're very simply written, but they're also great reminders.
How do you personally keep those commitments in front of your, of your everyday life?
Charles: Well, I, I don't, I'm not just a walking, talking encyclopedia where I've got all these, you know, nice things that I have, you know, remember to do, but it, it goes back to the basics, right? It goes back to, in this conversation. Am I being honest? Am I being loving? Am I helping the other people in the room and just over and over and over again.
I, I find that having kindness sometimes, you know, seems like weakness. And that's kind of, you know, we have to pray for that wisdom to know, you know, the great balance of truth and love. And Jesus was the only person that wasn't wrapped around the prongs of dilemma of being too truthful or too, like it says he was perfect in grace and truth, but the rest of us struggle, right.
We're either too truthful or too loving. And it's trying to find that balance of truth and love. So yeah, for me those eight commitments I live them just because I'm present in every conversation saying. Am I as honest as possible with this person, am I as loving as possible? And is this going to benefit them and everyone else, does that make sense?
I don't mean to simplify it.
Tony: I appreciate it, right, because it goes back to what you're talking about earlier, which is the four keys you begin to understand. If you build everything on the four keys, then the commitments will come as a part of your everyday life. Yes, you know, and the four keys are based in both prayer and scripture.
And so it's, you know, I, it's a very, very good flow to all of it. And I, and I think it's It's simple. It's not easy. You know, this is not easy work. What would you say to the person who, you know, after listening to this conversation or has read the book and is struggling to do to be candid, right?
They're still struggling with, you know, figuring out how to find that voice of truth inside of them. What words of encouragement could you give them?
Charles: Yeah. That's a great question. And I actually deal with that and blistering honesty with self, and I'm actually turning the pages there right now, because I want to, I really want to.
Say this right, but I say here's some simple steps that can help one connect with the goals that they have for themselves and others isn't that is before they get into a a candor situation with another person, have they asked themselves these questions, figure out what type of person you want to be, you know, strong kind, genuine.
No, what you want in life? I mean, these are things you can do on your own before you talk to anybody, what type of person you want to be, know what you want in life, and then communicate what you want to others, allow others to share in your passions and your journey and your joy and your hopes and desires.
And then the last one is believe in yourself when you hit roadblocks. Because people might try candor. And immediately get rebuffed or reprisals or lose their job. And that's what, you know, it's, it can, truth can be a dangerous thing, honestly. But at the same time, it can be a very powerful thing, a life-changing thing.
And even people that apparently win in the short term, years down the road. Sometimes there's a realization that, you know, They, they didn't really win the war. They might've won that battle when they shut you down or they shut down candid communication. Does that make sense?
Tony: No, it does. It makes it's very very true.
It speaks very much to the heart of what I think is the, the essence of this book that this is, this is all part of a process, right? It's not, it's not a one and done thing. It's a journey. And, and like you said, It ebbs and flows. And as you do your very best to try to lean into that, people are going to struggle with you doing something new and you're going to have to continue to, to lean in and to just figure it out one day at a time.
Charles: Absolutely. And you know, the last part of the book, I call it the gift. And I, I say, I can hear, after somebody reading this book, one last question in the very back of the room, somebody goes, why should I do this? Knowing all the risks, you know, and the reason is. It's all part of the gift. You know, the sacrifice itself is part of the gift, knowing that others may not appreciate your candor, you know it, that it might bring temporary disunity or almost ruining an organization.
I used the very first chapter talks about me bringing candor to a situation that almost divided the organization that I was part of. I mean, it was heavy stuff. I didn't sleep well for days, you know? Anyway. That's the point is that it's a gift and the gift goes on and we may never even see the fruit of the gift.
You know, for the first 10 years, who knows?
Tony: I love it. I love it, Charles. Okay. I know that my listeners are going to want to follow up with you on the interwebs. Where is the best place to learn more about your writing and to pick up their copy of the book candidate?
Charles: Absolutely. I've had for a long time now, Causey books.com.
And it's a very simplified website just to keep it simple. That's the army flats, keep it simple, stupid, you know, I think I'm the stupid one. I just, I gotta, I always complicate things. So anyway, you go to that website. The first page is my current book. How to get it, where to get it, you know? Videos things.
The second page has all my other work. The third page is the contact page. How do you get ahold of Charles? And I tell people when they write to me, you know, I may not get back to you in the first 24 hours, but I am going to get back to you. It might take two days because you know, here in the Pacific and the job I do, sometimes we're doing international flights all over, you know, going over to the Dateline and things and spots, you know, not really good internet sometimes, but I take.
You know, people's communication very seriously. And I do get back to everyone. I guess I would love to hear candor stories and somehow I'd love to post them on a blog or a website, you know, when people share these amazing things, because it'll give courage to other people. So I haven't, I haven't developed that yet.
That's maybe in the future and that's maybe something you can help me with because you're so good at all this stuff. But anytime I would love to get feedback from people on how it's going.
Tony: That's awesome. Okay. Last question. I always love to ask people. It's an advice question. You know this if you could go back and give yourself one piece of advice, except I'm going to take you to a very specific time.
The Monday after our weekend with life success seminars, after somebody just told you that you're not very open and they don't know much about you, if you could go back those 12 years and talk to that younger version of Charles, what's the one thing that you want to tell them.
Charles: Charles you're going to grow in this.
It's going to take some time, but, and it has to start with honesty. You got to be honest with yourself. You have to be honest with God. You have to be honest with the lorry. You have to be honest with your best friends and that's going to do some heart surgery. It's going to be hard, but you got to quit wearing masks and you're going to get there.
You will get there, there is fruit, there is fruit at the end of the limb. You know, when you, when you go out on that limb and you do the hard work and I don't have it all together. I'm not a perfect person. I still make mistakes. I say the wrong thing continually. My kids can tell you, you know, and my wife obviously, and tell you the real Charles, I just, I know that what people are getting today.
Is more authentic, Charles, you know, more vulnerability, more intimacy just a real desire to connect with people and be kind to them and loving. I don't have to, when, you know, if your goal is to win an argument rather than protect the relationship and you're on the wrong path, you know, our, our goal has to be.
This relationship is important,
Tony: Charles, that's so good. I love what God is doing in you and through you. And I love being a part of it and watching, and, and I can't think of a better guest for my 100th episode. So now I'm going to ask a big favor. Will you go ahead and pencil in the reclamation podcast for episode 200.
Charles: You got it. Whatever we're doing at that time, we'll do the 200, but you know what? You have some amazing guests on. I got to just turn the tables here. You you've done incredible with this podcast. And I just can't believe some of the people that you've interviewed it. I feel so small, you know, like so insignificant.
It's like, it's a joy for me to be on here. You have heavy hitters on here, famous, amazing people. And so listen, I'm going to give a caveat that says. If you want to go ahead and schedule somebody else for your 200, I would.
Tony: It's you it's you it's done. Done deal. You're 200 and 300.
Charles: Goodness sakes. Okay.
Tony: Have a great day, Charles. Thank you so much for your generosity of time today. I really truly appreciate it.
Charles: You're welcome. It's always a blessing. It's always a pleasure. Just love you brother.
Tony: I love you too, man.
I loved this conversation with Charles and how he talks about the four keys that candor speak the unspoken truth of love at the right time for the benefit of everyone.
Just some good, good reminders about all the things we need to do. If we're going to continue moving dialogue forward. And I do very much so want to continue to. Move the dialogue forward with you a hundred episodes in and we're just getting started. I can't wait to see what God does next. Can't wait to see how God grows his community.
Hey, don't forget. Follow me on Instagram at TW melt free coffee this week. Subscribe. So you don't miss the bonus episode and share this episode with a friend. It means the world to me and to our community here. And I'm so thankful for you. Can't wait to see what God does next. See you guys real soon.
