#101: Randy Frazee
Do you ever wonder how to connect to a supernatural strength? Pastor and author Randy Frazee unlocks what it means to connect with God in His mighty strength. In our conversation, we discuss what it means to listen to God's voice, be obedient in faith, and operate in the power of the Holy Spirit.
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Websites: https://www.randyfrazee.com/
EP. 101 Randy Frazee
Tony: Hey everybody. Welcome back to the Reclamation Podcast, where we want to help you reclaim good practices for faith in life. The reclamation podcast is a proud partner with spirit in truth podcast network, to learn more about spirit and truth, visit their website spirit in truth.life. My name is Tony and I get to be the host of this podcast.
Today is episode. One Oh, one what's up. We made it past the century. Mark. I hope you enjoyed the bonus episode. I hope you enjoyed the conversation last week with Kasi. I heard so much great feedback about that. Again, the best way to make sure you don't miss any of our episodes is to hit that subscribe button.
Also leave a rating review on iTunes. It does help people find out more and more about the podcast. Now today's guest is author and speaker pastor Randy Frazy. Now pastor Randy has this brand new resource out his mighty strength, and it's all about the power that raised Jesus from the dead it's. And I'm telling you that we just had this incredible conversation, even before we hit record about disciple-making about disclosure versus accountability.
We really get into this idea in the dialogue and the conversation about The upper kind of story and the lower story and how that works with God. I think you're really going to enjoy his insight on what this means and what this looks like. We talk about the power of God and it's limited to the will of God.
And how do we discern the will of God? And what does all that look like? He shares a lot of his story. There's one point in his story where he spends 45 days not sleeping. And every time I read my note on that, it really just kind of me out. So I think you're going to really love pastor Randy. He's he's doing something really incredible things for the kingdom.
West side family. A church over in Kansas. I love his story. I love his heart, and I think you will too, as always the best compliment you can give us, share this episode with a friend. We're always looking for more and more feedback. So if you have a guest that you'd like to have on the podcast, or you've got a thought, don't hesitate to reach out to me, tony@twmilt.com, you can also visit our website reclamation podcast.com or hit me up on Instagram at TW Milt.
Now without any further ado, here's my conversation. With pastor Randy Frazy. Hey everybody. Welcome back to the podcast. I'm excited today to be here with pastor Randy freeze pastor radio.
Randy: I'm doing great, Tony. Thanks for having me.
Tony: You know I'm going to jump right in. I saw something on your Instagram that I'm dying to know how it's going.
As we record this. We're in the series. We're we're in the middle of lent. And I saw that you are doing a lens, not a reading plan, but a lent listening plan. And I'm so intrigued by this. I love disciplines and practices. So two things. Tell me about it and how's it gone.
Randy: Yeah, thank you. Start for starting.
I didn't see that coming, but I'm so glad that you opened it up back in 2000, I'm a Bible engagement guy, Tony. So I've done things like the story and believe with my publisher. I love not only people hearing the word, but engaging the word in community. I think that's where transformation can take place.
And so in 2018, I was invited by an organization called faith comes by hearing that does audio recordings in over 1500 languages. Now. Dramatize audio recordings to go to Hong Kong. They were releasing this experience called one hearing the word campaign where 300 churches came together and really encourage their people to invite other people into this listening program through the gospels.
And I helped them launch it. It was super exciting. And they asked me what I do the next one. So I did, I orchestrated a campaign and here's what it is. Here's what it is. In Kansas city. We have 150 churches who have come together and all 150 churches are teaching through the gospel of Mark on the same page every single week, which is really wow.
We formed then each church is forming watching groups, this beautiful film on the life of Jesus that overlays the gospel of Mark to it. Right. And it's just wonderful experience where you're listening word to word while seeing this beautiful cinematography on the life of Jesus. And there's no teacher, it's just a five questions appear on the squeak screen that moved from head to heart, to hands.
And then there's this listening program. The bible.is app where we have a listening program where for 10 minutes, a day, you can listen to and get through Matthew, Luke and John over the 40 days of lamp. And so not only do you encourage your people to listen. But one shares with one, or this is a beautiful opportunity of gospel, Schatz, ration sharing the good news of the story of Jesus.
And so we're not only doing this in a, with 150 churches in Kansas city, but with 21 cities internationally around the world, including Hong Kong, Malaysia, Singapore, Vietnam, the, and we're all United together in this experience. And we're watching right now getting the early. Horseback of watching the spike of the number of people that are listening to God's word.
And we have to remember that it doesn't say that you know for God, so loved the world that he gave his one and only son that who can whosoever can read. Yeah, we believe it's a Roman says faith comes by hearing. And so we live in a, in a world now where even though a lot of people can read 70% of the world chooses audio as their overall experience, which I think is pretty cool.
Tony: Yeah, what's interesting is I'm often struck by how many times in scripture, I see the words, those who have ears, let them hear.
Randy: Yep. Yeah. Those who have ears, let them hear that's exactly right. And, and, and even those who even those who can't here. We have this in the deaf language, and so they're hearing comes through sign language with my wife is a fluid fluent in sign interpretation.
So even those who can't physically here still enjoy the, the conversation that comes. So faith comes by hearing and there's something dynamic even for the follower of Jesus. Who hears the word of God versus just reading it. And I think probably most of your listeners are probably dropping down way more content through your podcast and other podcasts and audio calls than they are sitting down and reading a book, which for a writer is kind of disappointing.
Tony: But audio books are great.
Randy: It's an audio book. There we go.
Tony: Well, let me ask you this, cause I always love to make it a little personal. How have you experienced God differently listening than you have reading.
Randy: You know, first of all, I'm taking in I, for some reason, the way God has wired the brain we just hear things differently.
We, the story, we're not as intense, we don't get as tired. And I've been I I'm, I've been doing this audio thing with my kids for a long time. One one year we homeschooled our fifth and eighth grader. And basically I, we would, we would lay out on the grass and just listen to the scriptures.
And even from that point on, I realized that something dynamic happens to them at the way that the audio comes into the brain. And then, and there's just wonderful opportunity to know that you can share it with somebody else, and they're going to be more likely to listen to an audio. Then they are going to be to sit down and read a book.
People will still have the time.
Tony: So you've been writing and and putting out audio content. I mean, you're your content guy you preach to lots of people, you know, when, when we're not in COVID right. Like how do you stay fresh or, you know, to use a scriptural term, how do you stay salty in this process so that you I mean, after you've been doing this for a while, how, how do you still fall in love with Jesus every day?
Randy: Yeah for me, I, I, I'm a big rhythm guy. I, one of the books I wrote came out of a personal crisis where I crashed to 45 days of not sleeping at all real chronic case of insomnia. And and I thought I was going Tony. I thought I was going literally crazy because when you lack sleep, you not only get irritable and don't get any work done, but you have this incredible sense of anxiety and depression that overcome.
Tony: I don't know if I can make it one day without losing my mind.
Randy: Yeah, I'm telling you, man, I thought I was going crazy and I thought someone was chasing me and my doctor explained it to me, all of that from a biological and point of view. But I ended up coming you know, my doctor basically said, you know, you can be on medication for the rest of your life or you could You know find balance in your life.
And I said, well, what would that mean? He said, well, if you were to maybe just kind of work during the day and then have dinner with your family and friends at dusk and the go to bed at the same time every night, that would probably do it. I'm like, this is what we pay you the big money for. And he goes, you had to go to like med school for that.
And he goes, yeah. So I went back and I found in scripture on the very first two pages of scripture, this, a rhythm that I call the Hebrew day planner. And it's basically. We from 6:00 AM to 6:00 PM is your season of production and work for the whole family. And then once that 6:00 PM comes, all of the work is put down for the rest of the day.
And you basically enjoy the relationships that God has placed in July from six o'clock to 10 o'clock and then go to bed at the same time every night. And you'll you will really. Put your body into those rhythms that God intended. And you'll get that recommended eight hours of sleep a night, which when you get that sleep, you need your, we now know that your brain is, is flushing itself of toxins that only can come through restful sleep.
So, you know, for a guy like me, who might be a type a you know driver kind of person three on the Enneagram, you know, who thought sleep was a waste of time? I now see sleep as a productive thing. And then when I wake up in the morning there's just a handful of things that I do. And one of them is I don't, I turn my phone off and I don't check it.
And for the first 30 to 45 minutes. And I I get a cup of decaf coffee. I'm completely off of cath. Well, caffeine as well. Decaf has a little bit of caffeine in it, but I kinda Decast myself. Two. And then I exercise, there's an adrenaline. I mean a endorphin release there. And then every morning I I have my time with the Lord.
It's not a super spiritual time. I just, I meditate and I have a prayer list and I go after it. And so I have a rhythm and then I know exactly what I'm trying to get accomplished in a day. The discipline of that. And I know at five 15, all the work's done and today. I'm doing ballroom dancing lessons at five 15 with my wife of 40 years.
Come on now and awesome. And, and then I just, I'm S I think it's a different, I'm a super curious person. I have to think you are as well. And so I just go I just go diving in to looking for nuances on who Jesus is, you know, which which led me to this book I've written now. It just was just me. I was on a curious journey too.
And and I discovered something and I just get mesmerized. By letting Jesus be Jesus. I think a lot of times we try to protect users from the one he wanted to become and we try to kind of clean them all up and he didn't give the seven bowls conversation at all. And he, he really, no that's, can't possibly be so, so I've just in the season.
Like what if I just let Jesus be Jesus and what, what might I discover? And I find that the Jesus who is as much better than the one I wanted, it's pretty cool.
Tony: So one of the, one of the theories that I've been working with lately has been that COVID is like the deployment that America never wanted.
And I I'm an old army guy, so deployments are very familiar to me and, and one of the realities of deployments, and I think of COVID is that, that prolonged stress. Like COVID in seasons like this in our lives, relationship change, lack of sleep turns the cracks in our lives into Caymanians. Yes. It really just blows them up.
So I'm curious, how have you dealt with the routine of your normal life? Being stripped away because I'm not, I'm just like you, I love all of the disciplines and I want all the disciplines in my life and I need to have, you know, I need to get up at the same time. I need to go to bed at the same time. And, and actually it helps me build community.
Cause I like to be at the gym at the same time and all the things. How, how have you managed with COVID and what have you learned about yourself in that process?
Randy: Yeah, first of all, I think, you know, when I, when I studied the issue of stress, I think you're absolutely right. I mean, there's a thing called youth stress, E U.
Stress which is actually a good kind of stress and that that, that actually our bodies function well, if that sense of excitement and, you know, that sense of just a sense of getting up and, and having purpose. And so I don't think that you know, the stress of a deadline of something that you believe to be the will of God is a bad thing.
I actually think it's a good thing in moderation, right? It's when we take things out of moderation. So, so I, I want to have a little bit of that. You stress in my life that with this pandemic and for me it wasn't about busy-ness. It was about, it was just about trauma, you know, it was just about Oh my gosh.
You know you know, how much of my identity was wrapped up in, in speaking in front of large crowds, you know, and is that ever, is that going to go away and, and what, what if if it goes away and I don't have a job and and. And this isolation from people. And, and so I find that those rhythms have been really served me well.
And I think people who through code people prior to COVID, who were forced into certain kinds of rhythms, probably didn't have the right rhythms, maybe lost all of the rhythms. I think those people struggled are really more, and not only just the physical rhythms, but the spiritual rhythms as well. And because I dealt with chronic insomnia on very well aware.
That I could go back there again. And so I don't live a life out of vision. I live a life out of like of desperation of not wanting to go back to a dark place. And so I take, I take these things very seriously. Not because I'm a super disciplined spiritual guy, but because I don't want to go back into a dark hole again.
And matter of fact, my prayer life, I you know, it is, I'm not a natural intercession guy. I mean, I'm a guy that I pray out of. Utter desperation, you know? And so I have no problem with that to try to, to try to keep to try to keep you know you know, Philippians four, you know, I'm I'm praying.
So I might experience the peace of God. I desperately. Peace of God, which is fundamentally not a feeling it's fundamentally a reality, it's a relationship, but that it results in in a, in a sense that my body physically is aligned to where I'm at spiritually hope. I'm making a little bit of sense there.
Tony: I don't know if I really good sense. And actually it ties in perfectly with this new resource that you've got out his mighty strength, because this is, I mean, you're kind of putting together the case of, of what it means to stand. Strong in Christ. Now I'm guessing you didn't like start writing this in 2020, and this has been a process, but what's it like to have a book come out about standing in God's strength in the middle of what could arguably be one of the weakest times for the North American church that we've, you know, in my lifetime?
Randy: Well, you know, Tony, that's a great question and you're absolutely right. And I, and I want to tell you the story of the book. Because I think just even the story of its inception and its release is. Even without looking at the content of the book is a story in itself. I did a project years ago called the story, which is just a bridge chronology of the Bible.
And in it, I teach this concept of the upper story and the lower story. And if you want to find a, if you really want to find comfort from God realize that there's two stories going on at the same time, there's a lower story. Which is how life is unfolding from your perspective, it's six feet and under it's linear, you can't see what's around the bend.
And so if your assumptions and conclusions of life are all from the lower story you're going to be a desperate person. But when you see the God's been writing an upper story that he's taking all of our lower stories and weaving them together to tell one grand story. I mean, that's the Bible. All of these lower stories.
You know, Joseph in the old Testament is betrayed by his brothers after having a dream. And he goes 22 years of ups and downs and in prison and out of prison. And then 22 years later, 22 years later his brothers come into Egypt and bow down to him. And and, and, and basically Joseph says what you meant for evil, God meant for good or what you meant for me in the lower story, how it looked to me in the lower store, my brothers are throwing me under the bus and my life is over.
And that dream was just, I don't know, bad pizza or whatever. Yeah. But 22 years later, God used that to get Joseph to Egypt. And he said God brought me here at just the right time to save Israel, to not only save Israel. And he was, and he really captured the upper story of God. So in my life, I've come to recognize.
That in the writing of this book, his mighty strength when I first agreed to write it and why I agreed to write it. And now it being released way later than it was supposed to be released just in time to maybe save somebody who is in a whole, like Israel was when a famine hit their life. Is nothing short of just being amazed at how God is so personal in our lives and how he's using me as a pawn in his scheme to help other people and how utterly okay.
I am with that.
Tony: That's beautifully said. One of the things in the book is you talk about relying on the Holy spirit. And I, it feels like that there might be a connection between capturing the upper story and our dependence on the Holy spirit. I was wondering, could you fill some of that in for us? How does, how does the average, everyday believer who I've got so many listeners who, who love Jesus, but just are struggling to follow him.
How do they rely on the Holy spirit and capture the upper story and still get the kids to soccer?
Randy: Yeah. Yeah. It's one of the biggest problems with a lot of and, and you've got kids at home I'm an empty nester and so I can pray for you. Dear Lord, help me to meet this posed and totally unnecessary challenge.
Yeah. Right. And so, because so many, there's so many over my desk of all the things I got myself into that I didn't need to be in and try to keep myself from the things that matter. But and I think that's one of the biggest challenges that people have is that life has overtaken them. Yeah. And we'll have a moment to be really steel and contemplate of, and that concept of be still and know that I, in God, we just don't have time for that.
The beauty of COVID a gave us an opportunity. Now, if you have small kids, it really didn't give you an opportunity because the kids are at home and you have no time with the kids away at school to kind of have that contemplate a moment. So it worked really well for a guy like me. Who's an empty nester, but you know, moms that are have their kids at home are like, You know, COVID, didn't slow me down.
It got our family together, but it didn't give me much time. So that's one of the biggest challenges is pace of life, which is which is unique to the American culture. The majority of people in the world do not live. Like we live in Mediterranean Europe. You know, they define success as a, an evening meal with family and friends.
We define it. As, as the next purchase. And we think, Oh, I'm going to purchase, you know, a really pretty house with an center Island. So that I'm envisioning us doing dinners one day, you know, and the, the Mediterranean European, but they bypass all of that and go right to the dinner on a real modest table and soak in life.
Now we just think there's a purchase required to get us to the ideal picture. And that stress keeps us from really tapping in. To the Holy spirit, you know, Tony to answer that question I, I have to go back because I'm a little bit in, into the, into the, sort of the flow of the book. Because actually sort of tapping into the power of the Holy spirit is step three of, with two previous steps required.
And, and I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll basically say this, that my big discovery in this journey is that the power of God is reserved for the will of God. Hmm, God is reserved for the will of God. And I think one of the things that's been disappointing to a number of Christians who maybe anticipated that their life was going to be more empowered or different when they came to Christ and found that that really isn't is that is that the power of God, as we see pattern in the life of Jesus is really reserved for the will of God.
And that means it's not really reserved for our will. So many times when we go to try to find strength in the Holy spirit. We find maybe we fall just a bit short because the thing that we're going after is not really completely aligned to what really matters to the will of God. And I think this is the thing that's keeping us from that empowered life.
And it's not an easy topic for people to hear in the 21st century that the key for me really finding true empowerment, I mean, super hero empowerment is going to happen. Yeah to take about, of aligning our life to the will of the father. And I'm not sure that a lot of people are ready for that.
But boy, if you do, you'll find that the will of the father is way better than your will. It leads you to a whole, a better different place. And then, and, and it's also an empowered life because once your life is aligned to the will of the father the spirit takes over.
Tony: Yeah. I said, we call it here.
Oftentimes that most people have a Lordship issue.
Randy: That's exactly what this is all about, Tony, you know, it's just you know, I mean there's only probably five themes in the scriptures. It's not that hard. And look at this, this is, this, this whole book hinges upon Lordship it hinges on. And, and, and the cool thing about the book is, is that.
I didn't realize that Jesus was modeling it for us. I didn't realize how severe he will take them. Take a point of view on the nature of Jesus. That's a bit a bit it's very Orthodox, but it's very different than what I was raised in, in my theological training. And I entered into the space, not inviting people to buy hook, line and sinker, but to put, to consider it because when you see.
The severity by which Jesus identified with us on the 33 years, he walked this earth and then you look at the pattern of his life. What you realized he did is that he put himself in that lower position to model for us. You know, so I, you know, the first part of the book is emptied. The second part of the book is aligned and before we get to empowered, You've got to do what Jesus did, and that is you have to empty, you have to empty and you have to align.
And this is amazing about the life of Jesus. And it opens up the door to where it's, once you get to step three there's nothing for you to do, but get out of the way. Okay.
Tony: So I'm going to ask you to speak on behalf of the entire church. No pressure. Yeah. Why do you think that as as a. As Christians in North America, especially we've paid so much attention to the words of Jesus, but we've seemingly neglected the actions of Jesus, which is what it feels like you're talking about. It's like, Hey, don't just pay attention to the words. The words are super important.
We're not going to get rid of any of the words, but also look at the actual practices of Jesus. When, when did that hit you? And, and why do you think the church has neglected it so much?
Randy: I think because, you know we're, we're a little bit more Greek than we are Hebrew and our way of life. And so we got, we, I think were mesmerized by words of which I am as well.
And I know you are as well. But let me take you back to the word disciple. And when Jesus said follow me or in Ephesians five, when Paul says that we need to we need to follow Jesus. That word follow where we get the word disciple is the word in the Greek where we get our word mimic, right?
Jesus is basically designed us where most people, Tony do not learn. They can get educated. By simply taking in words, most of us actually learn by mimicking the community around us. So I have a son who's now grown, but when he was a, I don't know a little boy, five, six, seven years old he was, he was born without a left hand.
And so as a dad, I wanted to show him how to play catch. And so we went out in the backyard and I threw the ball to him and I have two hands, but he has one. So I would take, I would put the ball in. I would. Tuck the glove underneath here. I take the ball out. I'd throw it. I put my hand back in again, and then we just did this over and over again.
And I am mimicking his mimicking me. So his younger brother comes out with his glove and wants to play with us. We'd never done it before. I think he's three or four years old. And so I throw a grounder to him. He picks the ball, he picks the ball up. And what does he do? With two hands, he tucks it underneath.
He throws it out because we are creative who mimic behavior. And and, and so Jesus is the, the concept of discipleship has less to do with content. And it has more to do with mimicking the pattern of Jesus. And I think that we have missed that in our sort of thing. Educated culture, and this is a new discovery.
And then when you start probing in to the actual pattern of Jesus, now go back and read the gospels and let Jesus be the Jesus he wants to be. And he is, and don't clean them up, you know, don't make them. All prim and proper. Don't try to protect his divinity. He's really good at doing that himself. Just follow his humanity and fo follow it.
And you're going to see a pattern that gives you access to an empowered life. It's amazing.
Tony: Oh, one of the things that's been really challenging for me this year is is somebody who has been discipling me, said, Tony, what's your favorite movie? And I was like, Oh, it's remember the Titans. Right? And he's like, can you, can I drop you into that movie?
And you can tell me what's going to happen before and afterwards. And I was like, absolutely. And I could probably give you a couple of line quotes. You know, where I'm going with this problem is, is that when, when we drop ourselves into the story of Jesus, We don't know what, we don't know the story well enough for the before and after or the line quotes.
Randy: Yeah.
Tony: Lean in to the, to knowing more about the movie is, is it, it's obviously it's scripture reading, but it's, it's gotta be more than that too. There's gotta be H how do we, how do we start to figure out how to align ourselves?
Randy: To get to empowered. Yeah, I think again, I think the very first thing that I would say.
Is that is this, this is acknowledgement that that when Jesus left the heaven, that he has full access to omnipresence, omnipotent and omniscient, right? So those are big theological words. That mean that he can be in all places at all times he has all knowledge and that he has all power. And so he's leaving the heavens and he's, he's wrapping himself up in human flesh and and, and Philippians chapter two tells us that though, being in the very nature of God, Did not consider equality with God, something to be used to his own advantage.
So he's coming as the last Adam or the second Adam to represent us. He didn't feel like he could best empathize with us and represent us if he held on to those divine prerogatives. And while he did change his nature. He left, it's my point of view that he left them behind and I give the illustration that of, of going we're in Colorado and we're doing a dinner with a couple we hadn't seen in years.
And we were so excited to catch up and I had, it was a fairly expensive restaurant for, for me. And I had intended from the very beginning to pay and we had a blast and the bill came and I realized that I left my wallet back at the hotel. Well, I stick the bill with my friend. I haven't seen in a long time.
It used to be my friend. And here's what I think Jesus did. I did not lose my identity at that dinner. I was still Randy. Frazy still totally who I am, but my ability or my power to pay was back at the hotel. But, and what I believe Jesus did, he did not change his nature. He did not lose any of his, of his nature of being God.
But when he took on human flesh, he left behind his divine wallet of power. So that when he walked the earth, follow me on this. When he walked the earth he had to do just that he had to walk to get from Bethany to Jerusalem. He had to walk. He had no choice now in his resurrected body, we see immediately he's back to where he can get wherever the heck he wants to get.
He did not know everything. You know that he it says in Luke two 52, that he grew in wisdom and stature. God cannot grow in wisdom. He's less than so either the Bible is not a legitimate source of truth about Jesus. Jesus is not God or something else is going on here. And I take the point of view that for this 33 year period, Jesus placed himself voluntarily in a divine amnesia.
So he's having to grow there. Remember when he says that the disciples asked when the kingdom is coming and he says, Oh, nobody knows. Not even the, not, not the angels and not even me. Only the father. Well, that is a problem. If Jesus doesn't know. Unless he is in a place to himself, he's emptied himself of the control that he now has again.
Oh, he knows when he's coming back now, you know, in revelation, you know, the prophecy saying he's coming back on a white horse with a sword coming out of his mouth and all that kind of, he knows it's coming back Taurus, but during that period of time, even in the garden of necessity, right, he's right. When he comes to the innocence, you know, father here's my will.
Here's my will. I'd love to get out of this deal, but not my will, but your will be done. And so even, even in the, even, even at the last hour, he's in the spot. So, so basically what w what we do is we have to, first of all, Jesus emptied himself of control. The very first thing we need to do is empty of the illusion of control.
We don't even have control tone. Hey man, the very first step. And so I just encourage people to go through this sort of spiritual exercise of just, you know, You know, strengthening, you know, tightening up your fist and letting that represent all of the things you're trying to control and all the tensions and all the pain in your life.
And then just opening up your hands and basically saying, God, I give you control. And, and then to turn them over and say, not my will, but your will be done. This is the very first step. And it is challenging for different types of personality. So Tony, I'm assuming with the leader type personality that you have, you know, you, you and I maybe feel like we have things in control.
And we're better off doing it. It's hard for us to give up control because we like to be in control, but people on the other side of the scale, people on the other side of the scale they ha they, they don't go after things like we do, but they're afraid of losing the little control they do have.
And so. Every person struggles to give up control. And the first pattern in the life of Jesus that we see is that we, he gave up control for 33 years. We need to give up the illusion of control and the very first step in accessing the same power that raised Jesus from the dead is that we've got to decide if we're going to do that.
So that's step number one, even before you get to alignment. So I'll stop there. This, because I can, I wrote a book on this.
Tony: Well, listen, and I love it. I love it. And I'm excited because I think that this is exactly the dialogue that the church needs to be having right now, as we, as, as we talked about a little bit beforehand, there's a, there's a ginormous pivot coming right in.
And one of the things that we know about this pivot is that the Sunday morning experience is now more accessible from anywhere, but. Church, the building church, not the accuracy church, but the building church than it ever has been before. One of the things that I often hear about following Jesus is this kind of disclaimer, man, but I'm not Jesus, right?
I I've never had you know, I've never had that, the divine amnesia and, and one of the things is it, you talk about it in this book is your own struggle with clinical depression and how all that paid apart. I was wondering if you could kind of. Tell us a little bit about that process and how that grew your understanding of, of walking with Jesus in all of the broken humanity.
Randy: Yeah. You know, and you know, I appreciate you asking that question because it's really become a major of the major sort of story in the book as a story that I never intended. Hmm, in this book when I first got under contract to write this book, it was all based upon the theological sort of intrigued I had with the nature of Jesus and the pattern he showing us.
And it was really I was fascinated by it. And I'm super excited to present it. And I was supposed to have the book done two years ago. And but what ended up happening is I experienced well I talk about it in the book. So I experienced about of betrayal. And and it I, you know, as a pastor, I'm super duper used to criticism and all that kind of stuff.
And usually just runs off of me, like a water off a Duck's back kind of thing. I try to learn from it, but this one really took me down. And as my psychologist said, you know, I went down into the basement of my brain with. Right. Flight or freeze. And I stayed down there too long. And when I wanted to come up, I couldn't, I was down there in that place of survival.
And, and the biggest challenge for me is that I was, I was under the belief that I had the power within myself to pull myself up from my bootstraps, go up to the upper part of my brain where peace and joy were at. And I couldn't get back up again. And so here I am writing a book that's subtitled. Walk daily in the same power that raised Jesus from the dead.
And for for many days I couldn't raise myself off of the couch and I thought to myself, this. What irony is this how, how hilarious is this? I can't write this book. I can't even get off the couch, let alone tell people how to tap into. So I even thought the principles were completely wrong. You know, or I just didn't have the ability to access them or that God was.
Writing an upper story. And I really feel like you said, Randy, this book's going to be a lot more powerful to real people, not just your theological geek friends, but to real people. If we can have it run through you. So if you're okay with this, I'm going to let this betrayal what they meant for evil.
I'm going to, I'm going to I'm going to make it for good. And when this book comes out, It's going to come out in the middle of a global pandemic where mental illness, mental health struggles, depression, anxiety, and even suicide are at the highest rates since the great recession of 2008. And your theologically intriguing book is not going to have anywhere near the impact.
If you will humble yourself and let them know how you lost complete control of your life and found the pattern of Jesus to be the pathway for you to recover. So that's my story. And I'm sticking with it.
Tony: When put all this out there. What, what was that like for you? I mean, as pastors, obviously you preach a lot and I'm sure you pull stories, but what's it like to put something that is the darkest part, you know, maybe of your entire life and put it out there for the world to see.
And I guess I'm kind of curious how, how vulnerable do you feel as this book begins to hit the wild.
Randy: I hate it. Oh, you know, us past. Thank you for being honest. I mean, I do, I hate it. I'm actually a little nervous about it, to be honest with you. You know, us pastors are very, very careful with our vulnerability.
I mean, we'll know that we're vulnerable, but we usually, you know, we usually kind of protect it pretty well. This is not a story I want to. Well, I actually wrote the book Tony and turned it into my publisher Nelson and they go, wow, what an intriguing book, but it's not good. I mean, it's just not what, it's not what people need.
And I'm like, you gotta be kidding me. I'm already dealing with depression. How do you, you know what this book having clinical depression like you know, I'm, I'm, I'm not in a good place, but I somehow. Inca Bookout and they go, no, that's not going to work. Like I don't have the energy to go back and write it.
And they assigned me to an editor. Who's a good friend of mine named Christina Anderson. And she not only was an editor, but she passed with me through this. And I mean, I, I. I hope she listens to this because I, I fought her all along the way. She said, no, Randy, this is the story. And she said, no, you're trying to resolve it way too soon.
And I did. And I just like, I don't want to tell this story. I do not want to tell the story. This is just way too raw. I don't want to tell it, but I think that again, this whole purpose of this book is that you have to empty yourself control and you have to align your life to the will of the father. And I talked to my wife and I said, okay, I'm going to get that story out there.
I mean, People already thought I was weak. Now they're going to know I am really weak. And and that I've got this embarrassing story in my life that took me down and, and other people are going to go like, wow, I can't believe he's such a wuss. And and just, just dealing with the fact of me, people that deal with mental illness and they feel, they feel out there, they feel somehow less than they feel like.
I mean, mental illness is a real deal and, and. And I Al and also, I also live with the sense that at any moment, if I lose my dependency on God, I can go right back there again. And I don't want to. So it's it's, it's not this, this book is unprotected vulnerability, which is something I feel highly uncomfortable with, but I am just praying that God uses it in a way where he increases as I'm decreasing.
Tony: How do you know when the right time to share something like this is like, I mean, what's the difference between private secret and. And Overly, you know, oversharing, what's the cause. I mean, we all live in a social media world where everybody who's listening has some sort of platform. How did you discern through that?
Randy: Yeah, I think, I think number one, there are things that need to stay private, you know, and, and I really felt like this initially was one of them partly because it was a betrayal at the very root of it. And I couldn't tell the story without calling it that, and I don't. In any way, shape or form want to to call out the people who did what they did to me.
And just no way, matter of fact, in the healing part of where I'm at right now, that would be, I would, I would hate to hurt them in that. Yeah. I mean, that's a great place to get to Tony when you want to kill him at first and now you don't want to hurt to see them be hurt. And so in a lot of ways, I think that's why I wanted to keep it private because I D I didn't want to even potentially get to the point where it exposed.
Somebody, even though I've betrayed people sadly watch. So, I mean, it's not like I'm casting stones at them. It's really more about how it impacted me and how weak my life was. So, so I think number one we, we, I don't, I don't think that particularly if you're a teacher or you're on a podcast or you you've got to, so the goal should not be shock value.
The goal should not be seeking sympathy for me. It's all about the will of God. And Ken God used this in a, in a, in a way without hurting other people to help them see to see their intimacy with Christ a little bit better. And if that's the case, then I would be willing to do it. Now I'm not unwilling to tell a story where I've experienced success.
I mean, if all you and I do. Yeah. As pastors is tell the stories of how we fail and how we fail. I mean, an outsider would say, why would I ever want to join you? This Jesus is so depressing when they're always out there, you know? And so I've had even more success in my life in including including now some people.
Who are dealing with mental illness? The, the, the, the empowerment of God in their life is not going to be, to overcome the mental illness. Yeah. But God's gonna never leave them alone in that pain. And he's going to give them an unbelievable strength to see them through it. Jesus didn't get out of the cross.
He had to be seen through it. Paul wasn't relieved of whatever that. Thorn in the flesh was for him, but God gave him the strength in his we to see it through, in my particular case, it was the removal of it. At least for this season of my life. It's the removal of it. So I don't want to give the impression that if you have mental illness, read my book and you'll be done with it because I, I'm not sure that that's the case, but I do know God won't leave you alone in and he will empower you in it.
And that's what I'm hoping people experience with the paradigm that I'm introducing to them about the pattern of Jesus.
Tony: So a year from now in the books, the books lived out, you know, it's, it's become a New York times bestselling author, just speaking it into existence. There you go. What are we celebrating most about what what God did through this book?
Randy: I think of the first one comes back to Jesus that people see. It people see the Jesus I'm seeing today. They're just going to fall in love with him and trust him a whole lot more. When they realize the level of vulnerability and weakness he placed himself in. And you're going to see, see him in a whole new light and you're going to be able to learn more from them.
Because you're no longer just going to be taking away his words, thinking he had this unfair advantage, like you said earlier, I'm not Jesus. And the whole goal of discipleship is to become like Jesus. Right. And he showed us how to do it without the advantages that he had as, as God. And, and then I think the other thing is, is that people will have experienced because every time you tap into this power, you become more confident that the next thing you go through, you're not going to burn up a lot of energy, trying to do it in your own strength that you exp you know, people who have cancer, you know, go like, man.
I mean, I know it's like now to have cancer, I'm no longer afraid of it as much as I was when you experienced these principles and see how trustworthy God is. To, to see you through this you're going to live life without the fear. You know, what did they say? Say the Bible invites us to fear, not 365 times, you know?
So every day, every day we need to be reminded that we don't need to fear because of God. And I think that this is that mimicking the pattern of Jesus and that the more experience you have with this and people are going to come out of a pandemic and says, you know what? Bring another one on if that's the will of God, I am prepared for this one.
Unlike I was prepared, unprepared for the last one.
Tony: No, I, I really appreciate that. I know that my listeners are going to want to connect with you online and get pick up their copy of his mighty strength. Where is the best place to start with all of that?
Randy: You know, my website is randyfrazee .com.
And you can go there and get my Instagram and all and Twitter and Facebook page. You can buy the book there. It'll, it'll take you to CBD. You can certainly go to anywhere. Books are sold kind of thing to get it. But Randy for ac.com is the best place to find me. And the church that I pastor is called Westside family church.
Well, you go to Westside family church and you can kind of get a peek into the community of believers that I have the privilege of serving there and experience our worship and all that kind of stuff.
Tony: That's great. Okay. Last question. I always love to ask people. It's an advice question, right? And I want to give yourself a piece of advice, except I'm going to take you back to a very specific time.
Le let's go back to the day after. You signed the contract to write this book. Okay. If you could go back and talk to that, a younger version of yourself before, you're about to embark on this crazy journey, what's the one piece of advice that you would give yourself.
Randy: And that is a great question, you know and I'll tell you, I D you know, I I had only I had only preached a sermon on it.
Okay. So I only had 2200 words. That's that's all I had, but my publisher, I said, if you want a book, I got this book, but it's going to be really, really small. And they came back with me, says, well, we need it to be 40,000 words. And I'm like, Oh, okay. I'll give that a try. And so I went into this thinking, and this is such a fascinating idea.
I think the advice I would give myself if you, Randy, if you are going to dare to write a book, to teach people how to walk daily in the same power that raised Jesus from the dead. I want you to be aware that God's probably gonna mess with you. God's probably gonna mess with you and for the sake of getting this principle out.
So are you sure. You want to write this book? Because I went through an amazing up and down journey and there were days when I didn't think I was ever going to recover, but I now see that a good God. Like with Joseph, you let be, let me go to prison for the sake of saving Israel. And if that becomes the result of this, I'll be.
Super excited. And if Israel only represents one person who just felt like their life was over, there was no empowerment. And they were able to tap into the same power that raised Jesus from the dead to find victory. Then I'll go like, okay, that's pretty good. But I'm going to, my advice is going to be anticipate that the next time Randy, you decide to write a book with that promises such a amazing power.
Tony: That's beautiful and very well-spoken pastor Randy, thank you so much for being so generous with your time today and, and for being so vulnerable and putting your story out there. I know that this is going to make a difference for so many people in the world.
Randy: So thank you. Thank you, Tony, for what you do as well.
Tony: Great conversation with pastor Randy. I love his heart. I love his listening plan in lent and watching groups and listening groups and that kind of dialogue. And I just think it's so good. So good. The insights that he has for all of us, and I know that it was a blessing for me. I hope it was a blessing for you reminder.
Don't forget, hit that subscribe button, leave a rating review on iTunes and share this episode with a friend. So thankful for all of you and the ability that we have to continue this important ministry and to see what God is going to do next. Thank you guys so much. We'll see you guys next week.
