#142: Charlie McMahan: How to Help Students Perform Under Pressure.
Interested in going to the Miami Valley Fellowship of Christian Athletes Victory Banquet? Use the code "podcast" for a discount!
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Pastor Charlie McMahan is the leader and visionary of Southbrook Christian Church. Over the last several years he has developed a program to walk parents and students through the toughest thing they will both experience; their relationship.
In a bold movement, Charlie and his team are doubling down on Players Box with one goal in mind: Help students perform under pressure.
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EP. 142 FULL TRANSCRIPTS
Tony: [00:00:00] Hey everybody. Welcome back to the Reclamation Podcast, where our goal is to help you reclaim good intimacy with God. My name is Tony, and I'm your host. I'm excited today to have a very dear friend of mine. Charlie McMahon with me, Charlie is the leader of a movement here in Dayton, south Southbrook church.
In more specifically, he's the author of a brand new program. Designed to help athletes, artists and academics deal with the stress of their life, specifically students. And what I'm talking about is players box helping students perform under pressure. I love, love, love this conversation. We talk about his vision for the church about how he connects it all together about how to take our scars and turn them to stars.
Man. It's just a, it's a good, refreshing idea about how we can walk alongside stuff. [00:01:00] And if you love this conversation with Charlie, I want to invite you to come be a part of our Miami valley fellowship of Christian athletes banquet. That's right. April 3rd at Southbrook church, Charlie McMahon, pastor.
Charlie's going to be the keynote speaker at the Miami valley FCA. To learn more about the banquet to get connected to the fellowship of Christian athletes ministry. I want to invite you to check out their website, Miami valley, fca.org, Miami valley, fca.org. Now without any further ado, here's my conversation with pastor player's box.
And movement leader, Charlie McMahon. Hey everybody. Welcome back to the podcast. I'm excited today to be here with the lead visionary and catalyst of south Brook church. Charlie madman. Charlie, thank you so much for being here today.
Charlie: Tony. I really have so much [00:02:00] respect for you and what you've done and what you're doing. It's a pleasure to be with you today.
Tony: And I want to start with talking a little bit about COVID and the church. Cause you're, I'm the lead pastor of a big movement here in Centerville, my hometown and, and and you and I have met numerous times over the pandemic. How, how is your church? How is your heart in light of in light of COVID?
Charlie: 38% of pastors coming out of this, say they're done.
And I think that's very defining that says the tie, that, that the price has been too high and I'm done 38%. It is. And that is just one metric on how much the game has changed. The metrics themselves have changed. I feel like our church is doing well, but if you only use attendance as a metric, we're half the size.
We were two years ago. We're 80% [00:03:00] of what we were in financial resources. So that's just one metric, but it is. It is it is, the rules have been changed, not so much now, but for a year and a half there two days was a longterm plan. You made this decision and oops, the governor had a press conference and now that's changed and wow, you've had to change so much.
We decided to reboot the church. So we, we really made some big changes while we could do it because it needed to have. In a changing culture, it needed to happen. And It takes, it takes a toll. It does, you know, I think I told you earlier, I, you know, I'm I'm, my soul was tired. Yeah. You know, I feel so a weariness of soul.
So I so I'm okay. But it's, I would rather be doing this at 60 with my experience than at 30 with the energy I had, then the experience is really paying off on what [00:04:00] not to panic over.
Tony: So you've got a lot of young staff. I mean, Southbrook is, is really known for its young innovative staff. How has it been mentoring and shepherding and discipling this young, innovative, super high performing team through the great slowdown, the great and nation, the great freak out.
You know, I don't even know what to call it.
Charlie: Go on. Keep going. Well, it's just, you know, so the, we always, we have three, two dates that were catalysts nine 11, our church doubled in one weekend after nine 11, we went from a thousand to 2000, literally in one week and never looked. It's three 11, where's the complete reversal of that.
So this exactly. So it was the nine 11 in the, in the sense that it was totally a dispersion of gathering in every way, bars, restaurants, churches, everything that had to do with gathering. So the good thing about having a younger staff. The [00:05:00] generation they're a part of was already leaning toward, not centralizing everything into one gathering.
And so that's where it worked really well. And very useful, but even they have had to be very pivoting. Right. And, and just because you're 30 doesn't mean you're flexing. That's true. It doesn't, it's more personality type than it is age. And they've had to be very, very flexible. I think it was probably useful that I was at the helm just because at my age, I again, I can't tell you how I've never been more thankful for my experience.
And dealing with so many different things for, I don't know, 36, 7 years in ministry. So it's a, it's good. I'm glad they have the energy. You know, however long I would have lived, I would have lived five years longer. Like a lot of pastors if this hadn't happened. So it's it's I guess.
Tony: Now, one of the interesting things that you [00:06:00] guys are doing, I don't know if we're coming out of COVID yet.
I don't even know how to classify it. So I'm not even coming out. We're going back here, but you're the only church I know that just launched a capital campaign and multi-million dollar capital campaign. I, I know some church plants who, who are, who are growing now and are going to buy property because they're cash rich, but I've never and all the churches I know, I don't know any of them.
Movement. That's seemingly doubling down on what they're trying to do. And it feels like Southbrook is making, is drawing a line in the sand. I'm wondering if you might tell us a bit about how you came to that conclusion and got your, got your board on board.
Charlie: Yeah, it was so a year ago they really weren't.
They were like, what are you crazy? And then we said, but yeah, but if we start this in the fall of 21, we think that culture will be ready for it. So as you know five years ago we lost. I started teaching the player's box as it's called in 2011. And then we brought it into our ministry [00:07:00] here five years ago.
And the player's box mission is to help students perform under pressure. And the imagery of, as in many sports and theater, the player's box, the performers box where the friends and family sit. So we started this and equipping students for pressure and parents for how to not put pressure on their students and unduly putting pressure and.
We realize that it, this works. This is meeting students where they are, and it is changing student ministry. Whereas student ministry in America has been come to our building and we'll show you, Jesus. This is. We're meeting you where you are. Many of you academically, artistically and athletically are feeling intense pressure.
And you don't know if you have what it takes to meet the standards of either your school, your family, your family system. And so we are [00:08:00] equipping students with the tools. That they can use. And, oh, by the way, as we do that, we're building a relationship. It is the strongest discipling leadership development reality we have because what has happened is We've been able to pour into students that we would've never had a connection with.
Had we not done this? So we said, okay, let's double down. And we're turning our facility into a player's box facility six days a week is when this is done. So there will be an art center. There will be an athletic center and there'll be an academic center. And that's what this capital campaign. And as always vision money flows division.
And people know the need with this one. This one has not been very difficult. It's not a, oh, it's not a hard sell to say there's something wrong. And we're going to do something about it. We're not looking to say, Hey, somebody I'll do something about this. We're going to be the ones that do something about it.
And [00:09:00] so in many ways it has been challenging because half the people heard the vision that would have heard it two years ago. But in another way, the ownership has been tremendous. We've had over 300 families commit average in about, I think we're up to 3.7 million of our $4 million goal. So there's a.
There's it's over 10,000 per family, over three weeks or three years. Excuse me. And that's just extraordinary and it's all about division. It's all about they get it. We've got to help kids and we've got to help parents help the.
Tony: Yeah, because it's one part mental health. And then it's another part relationship building or is it, is it really one in the same or how would you save a 10,000?
Charlie: So, you know, so right now the program exists right now in increments of six week trainings, where we break down the play curriculum, PLA Y personality type. Learning style, [00:10:00] ability to level and yes. Factor in each of those has a very specific implication personality type we'll tell, oh, you, your relationship to pressure learning style will tell you how you.
This or process ability level tells you your purpose. Why are you doing this dance? Why are you playing volleyball? And yes, factor affects your positivity. So they have a very specific, you got to know this because this very critical issue is going to be affected pressure practice, purpose, positivity.
And so there is this element of it. That's seminar, you know, we do six weeks training. But the real power of it is when I teach for about 10 minutes at each one. And then it's the tables and we have coaches at each table and there's six days kids, middle school has their own session. High school has their own session while that's going on, parents have their own session on here.
Here's what you need to know and all of those [00:11:00] processes together. So it is a information and transformation of relationship that's happening at the same time. When the facility's done, we're going to take it to like a six day a week level. I mean, we're going to, you'll be in your group meeting.
However many times you can meet it. Won't just be limited to six weeks seminars at a time. And the big component of it that is both relational and informational is. The as soon as a high schooler says, I really get this. We turn them into a table leader for the middle school. So it is a magnificent leadership development engine.
And in an era when people can't figure out student ministry anymore, it seems like in America, we're turning away people to be coaches for this. Now people want to be involved in this. It's, I [00:12:00] mean, we've stumbled onto something.
Tony: Now, a lot of this is born out of your story, particularly with your son, Austin, but with your daughter too.
I'm wondering if you might share a little bit about how I mean, this feels like God's big redemption of what was a lot of family pain that you've been very open about.
Charlie: God turns our scars into stars for his use. Right? That's what he does. And I was a college athlete. Accomplished small college All-American.
My daughter comes along. She's really athletic in dance. And my aunt, my son, Austin comes along and he's really athletic. And unfortunately the same sport I was basketball and both of them crashed and burned, partly because. Of external pressures that were put on them, but also internal pressures within our family, my wife and I both run pretty hot when it comes to I'm a three, she is a [00:13:00] nine with a strong three using the Enneagram now.
She has an eight wing tour. And so anyhow, pretty both of us are pretty intentional people and didn't realize how much pressure we put on our kids. Not because we ever said, Hey, you gotta be great. It wasn't that it was, they saw. And I nearly killed both of our kids, literally, literally nearly killed them.
And, and,
Tony: I'm curious, I mean, you've, I've heard you use the term performance-based household and I, I know I'm an eight on the Enneagram with a seven wing, and I know that I have this tendency W w H how do we, how do we realize when we're, we're an, all of a sudden we're running? I mean, cause you guys are, you guys are great people.
Charlie: Like, I don't think somebody would think some people would think.
Tony: We're really not, no, there was no decision one day to be like, oh, you know what? I'm going to teach our kids. That the only way that they'll get, receive love from us as if. Specifically [00:14:00] athletically. Right? How does that, how does that happen?
I know somebody is listening and they're freaking out right now for us.
Charlie: It was being able to look back and see a trail with had blood on it. Yeah. You know, for a family that's listening to this. I would say this. If you are in any way, an accomplished person, we call it a high functioning family. Your student feels pressure because they don't know yet whether they have.
The wherewithal, the giftings to meet the unspoken family expectation. So you take a kid in our area would be very typical. One parent works at Wright Patterson air force base. The other parent works at Lexus nexus, a comfortable income and. I mean, you're not expecting to get a 22 when your act in this family, you didn't understand it.
Ask never said, right, but that child's going, oh my gosh, what happens if I get a 22 on my act? When anything less than a 30 is [00:15:00] really not acceptable. There's a, an, a pressure on that that now has been accentuated because in this era, that pressure never leaves. You do these little things, we hold it in our hands that we talk into and, and do all kinds of things with.
And so what's different about this era is, is in my era and your era, there was not the proximity to that constant pressure. Like there is now and comparison comparison. And so one of the things I tell parents is if you're high functioning, which doesn't mean that you're better than it just means you functioned pretty well.
You got a college degree. I assume the temperature in the room goes up for your child when you come into it. Oh no, no, no, no. Yes, it does the temperature. And we'll go to that because they may lie. It doesn't mean they don't love you. It doesn't mean they don't respect you. That doesn't mean they don't have affection for you, but there is an expectation that we want you to default to having that assumption.
[00:16:00] And so your task in many ways may seem counterintuitive. You have to lower the pressure. Wait a minute, then Jimmy, won't be everything. Maybe not, I don't know, we'll be alongside Jimmy to help him as well. We're saying be a whole being that if he does achieve that, he does it as a whole being, if he doesn't achieve that, he does that as a whole being.
But largely parents are very unaware until five minutes too late. And we were that five minutes too late. Wow. And so we, we, I said in 2011, I said, I'm not going to let this happen to them. If I can do anything about it and I'm going to, so I started writing the play curriculum PLA and then we put that together.
We've refined it. We've. I mean, we're still to this day, we're doing a 12 week session with a local high school basketball team right now where we're finding an even more, I mean, just why is because parents need help. And some of them don't know. [00:17:00]
Tony: Yeah. How do you respond? When a parent says, Hey, I can't come to the player's box for the parents part, but I think it's good for my kid because he's obviously super nervous or she's obviously super nervous.
Like, I mean, it feels like when I was in sales, we call it a one-legged presentation.
Charlie: I will say if, if the opening comes, I will say this now you remember that we can't resurrect what you're putting to death. So the reason why we really encourage the parental involvement. And I think it's the biggest impact we have is not on the kids.
It's the parents is for that reason is, is the person we have to impact most as you, it's not your child. Cesar, the dog whisperer. We use one of his maxims a lot where he said, I don't train dogs. I rehabilitate dogs. I trained dog owners and we tell people we don't train. We rehabilitate kids. We train parents.
Tony: Well, the last time you on my podcast we talked about the three questions to ask your kid every after every [00:18:00] game. And I'll tell you that, that conversation that we had about kids, anxiety and sports Had a drastic impact on me because I'm constantly trying to figure out ways to to use your term, turn down the heat every time.
Cause I'm an intense urinate. That's all needs to be said. And everybody tends guy on a, even though I don't even mean to be.
Charlie: Trying to pull you up, going to the dentist is relaxing for you.
Tony: My therapist says all the time, Tony, if you're not busy, I'm worried. Right. It's just. It's just the way my brain works.
Can you go over those questions again? Do you remember him?
Charlie: So the only three things you say to your child before they compete or perform or take the test is, is play hard, have fun. I love you. And the only three things you ask them afterwards, did you play art? Did you have fun? Do you know? I love you. And the point of that This is B is the, is the fact that is, it comes from Mike Mathenia.
You used to be the manager of the, of the St. Louis Cardinals is your [00:19:00] task as a parent is to be a passive encourager. Yeah. And so when in player's box, we talk a lot about the ownership pie. If you own more of that pie, then fees, transportation.
You're risking, it's not their pie. Like even at a quarter of the pie, you own the other three quarters of the outcome of the pie that goes into the oven of their performance. They own, they still don't feel like they own, this is why a lot of kids, especially girls quit in high school. It's like, I've never was my.
Your job as you provide, Hey honey, do you wanna play soccer this year? Okay. We'll pay your fees. We'll get your uniform. We'll give you transportation. But the more you let them own the rest of the pie, you know what I told you to get up and you didn't get up. You missed practice. That's yours. That's your pie.
It's not on, it's not my pie. It's [00:20:00] not my soccer. It's your soccer. I paid for your fee. I mean, I gladly provide the means by which you can participate. I set your alarm for you. I did that. I probably shouldn't have done that, but I did that because it's your job to get up. And the more you can do that, they may fail, but it was their pie.
It wasn't yours. So many kids never feel like it was theirs is yo. I can't believe he quit. I never was there as you owned it. When they looked up into the stands and they saw you are more uncomfortable than they were your Lincoln. Oh my gosh. This is not the kids thinking, this is not mine. This is theirs.
They're there. They're actually playing through me. And just so many of those things that say the best thing you can be is passive in passively encouraging. And, and that may mean that they don't get a 32 on their act. I'm very aware of that. It also may mean that they don't cut. That's what we're seeing today.
Yeah. Because so much [00:21:00] of the self-destructive behavior that's happening is I got to have control. So. I got, I gotta be able to control. So as nothing in my life, I have control over. And of course, as we know, from a dysfunctional standpoint in a health things like cutting and eating disorders are a by-product of, I have no control over whether I'm enough or not, and I'm tapping into good people.
I shared our bad people. We just had, we just didn't realize the heat, the same heat as you and I have talked before the same heat, the same fire in me that inspired a church, burned my kids.
Tony: Yeah. And so with this approach where we're kind of challenging parents to play the law, It is because while you may miss out on being a four year starter at a high school sporting event or being a doesn't matter, doesn't matter.
Right. But you, but you will probably create a home that your kids want to come back to.
Charlie: And I would tell you that's what you. [00:22:00] It's a spot on town and I couldn't set a better that's, that's what you want. And, and even though we made mistakes that caused some problems between our kids, that we have a home now that they want to come back to me and we, we hang out together.
Why it's because we learned from that we applied grace. They gave us grace. We so many things can still happen that are positive. If you'll just take this mindset and your kids may be in their twenties, but they'll want to come back and. They're there. They're probably going to be pretty successful as the world use that too.
Right. You know, I, and I, and that's the thing is you can't control what they are and how God made them anyway. Really give it up and let, let it flush out. You know, one of the things on an athletic standpoint, for example, you know, this you're around athletics all the time. If they're good enough, they're good enough.
That's right. If they're not good enough, I don't care how many AAU teams you have them playing on. They're not going to be good. It's just the way it is. [00:23:00] And in an era when everybody thinks that their kid can be the next tiger woods, if they're the next Earl w we need that reality. And so I, I'm just such a big proponent of the long view.
We're not trying to raise successful kids. We're trying to raise godly the adults.
Tony: Hey friends, just pausing this conversation with Charlie to remind you about the fellowship of Christian athletes banquet on April 3rd. I want you to have the best possible experience. And so we're giving you a podcast code so that you can save on your registration.
So if you go to Miami valley, fca.org/banquet, and when you register, put in the word podcast, You will have a discounted rate. I'm so excited to give this gift to you. My wonderful listeners. If you're in the Miami valley area, we'd love for you to join us. April 3rd, south church, go to Miami valley, fca.org, and don't forget to use that.
[00:24:00] Podcast. Yeah. I'm trying to create a home that my kids want to bring my grandkids too. Right. Because everybody, I talk to tells me how awesome grandkids is. It's so worth it. Yeah. Now the player's box seems to me to be what I, what I would label as sneaky Jesus. Right. Because it's, it's, you're not. I mean, it'd be clear if you've never looked up the curriculum or you're not familiar with it.
It's very, it's much more practical than it is. I mean, it's obviously it's rooted in scripture. I'm not saying that there isn't, you know, theological truths in there, but it's not really, I mean, this is not like a tool to be like, this is not your normal. Student, correct.
Charlie: It's not. So it's real. What's really, I think cool.
It is, is it's a totally inductive approach. So deductive is, here's the statement. Jesus Lord. And we're going to show you why we're an inductive approach. Is, is your life a mess in this case? Are you feeling pressure that you can't handle? We're going to show you some tools. We're going to give you the bread and the fish of feeding your mind, these [00:25:00] tools, and all, by the way, who is that guy?
That's behind all. His name is Jesus. And so I am a huge proponent in this era, especially of inductive ministry, inductive teaching. And it is the ultimate. For example, one of our hallmark truths is there is no fear in love. Perfect love drives out fear. We literally now know this on a neurological level.
Fear and love cannot exist in the human brain at the same time when you're feeling love you, it is. Physically neurologically impossible for you to feel fear. So the way to overcome fear and anxiety is not to, don't be fear. Don't be fearful. Don't be fearful. It's bringing love. I love this moment. We teach it as for Sean for 18.
I don't, we don't, we don't put that scripture reference in there. And here's why I have pastored more Hindu and Buddhist kids and Muslim kids in the last 10 years, because I've predominantly done this at tennis, a tennis center than I ever would have. Had I had, you know, first John four 18 in the curriculum, I was able to go Fairmont high school a few weeks ago, their volleyball team [00:26:00] and their, and the T coaches who themselves are not opposed, but they're like, we will get in such trouble.
If you start speaking Jesus to them, I said, don't worry. I'm going to, I'm going to give them a lesson from scripture and they don't even know it. And so I, I, that day I taught they were facing a tournament game. The next day I taught the, I love this moment principle to embrace the moment and. You know, people watch us.
Two of them said they told their coach, they were going to start attending our church. I didn't get up there and say, Hey, if you want more information, come to south services on Sunday. I think the presentation was done in such a way that they said I want more of this. And guilty is charged with player's box being somewhere between pre evangelism.
And evangelism, but it's the belief that when I walk into a room and you walk in a room, Jesus is walking into that room and we can trust that the holy spirit will draw. Now, when we have things that we do called [00:27:00] open-mind gems that are between players box sessions, and we go much more deeply into the relationship rooted in Christ in that, because that's the 2 0 1, 3 0 1.
Tony: And you're, you're going to create space in this building that you can basically exactly right to do that right.
Charlie: Is that so in this building, so we're going to have a, there's a, there's two parts of this ministry. There's the part that we'll take our team out to Fairmont high school and we'll come at three 30 on Wednesday afternoon for 12 weeks and we'll, we'll lead your team.
That's different than. You coach Tony is leading a group of six basketball players and they have three components to their gatherings. Every week they do us players box, mental skill training. They do their ball handling drills and they pray together. Hmm. That's what you do. That's shuts your group this week.
All platforms, arts, academics, athletics. Our say let's say our learning [00:28:00] big yellow. Principal, but you guys are doing, ball-handling the volleyball crews doing different skill development. Both of you will be learning the same thing. Both of you will be praying with those kids. And our intention is it starts next fall is that you start with that group when they're in fourth grade.
And however many of them want to journey through man you're at their graduation party. Yeah. And that that's the relational aspect when kids are shown love and true. I mean, I it's, I don't know. I bet I've had a dozen kids that we've baptized through player's box before it ever started here. Hmm. Because it's got to know me.
They got to know me through what I was doing at the time of south regions. They, now I do it at five seasons, but you know, it's still, Hey, show us Jesus. And maybe it's more so. And so you give them bread and fed Jesus had no illusion that giving people bread and fish was going to save their soul, [00:29:00] but it was a means for them to sit on the hill and go you're meeting my hierarchy of needs here.
Take me to another level. And definitely we see that with players bug. We do get, we have gotten from our own people, push back. There's not enough Jesus in this.
Tony: I'm sure Christians are always going to have.
Charlie: Exactly. Jesus, I have a problem with his sermons. Cause there was too many stories and not enough scripture, you know, and Jesus saying that idea that that's something's biblical of it has more verses and more, well, this is a different era, man.
This is we're sitting in Athens. We're we're, we're not in Jerusalem. We're in Athens. Oh, okay.
Tony: Unpack that. Cause I, yeah, I know what you mean, but I think there's probably a lot of people listening who don't know that reference. And I think it's really important because you're kind of turning your church into a rec center.
Charlie: We are that's and we even asked if there was any pushback. It was aren't there enough YMCAs in the area. Why do we need this? Here's here's why we can't do it. The why, what we can do here. And that is when Paul. [00:30:00] And acts 17 went into Athens. He looked at their hundreds of idols and they even had an idol to an unknown God.
And that was in case they missed one and he looked at, he goes, ah, let me talk to you about that. Unknown God I, to tell you about him. And he spoke from his, the poets that they had, he spoke from their culture and through that inductively led them into a dialogue about Jesus. Of Nazareth and that's what we're doing here.
We're saying don't, don't come to our building and we'll tell you about Jesus. We're saying we're coming to you in the context of your pressure. And let's talk to you about this culture. It's I didn't mean it this way, but in this culture, performance is an idol in Owens success and all that. Let's talk on that basis and let's just see what's available.
In truth. And in that building of that relationship, you will find Jesus because he [00:31:00] will come up in our conversation. At some point we will have a relationship where we can't help but speak to you of his truth and his reality. And eventually player's walks leads to flip is four 30. That's eventually what it leads because every truth that we speak, I love this moment.
Big you little, you, they're all truths about the power of the same power that raised Jesus from the dead now lives in you. Also, I can do all things through Christ who gives me strength. I mean, at the end of the day, the end of the day player's box is really just about creating grit. The grit of G.
Tony: I'd say mental resiliency it's based in biblical truth because it is teaching coping mechanism.
Charlie: That's exactly what you are. You know, who Pomona the Greek word for overcoming is, is really the one word that we're building into kids. I am of the firm belief that as soon as you can you start training kids on how to manage. Hmm. Cause that's the, that's why we have an addiction problem in our culture is, is more than ever.
We're protecting kids from pain, [00:32:00] not teaching them how to manage it, how to process it in a healthy way. I don't think even love you. He said, well, wait a minute. Is that more important than love? Well is not love. Part of that is processing. To love is to hurt. And, and at the end of the day, players box is really equipping kids to deal with loss and disappointment and pain, not shields I'm from it.
Tony: And so in one regard, what you're doing is you're taking the parents and you're saying, okay, parents, step back and let your kids experience pain because what we've seen. Several decades is our inclination mine included to lean in and say, no, no, no, don't don't hurt. My kid don't hurt my kid. I want my kid.
And so as a parent, I hear that. And my initial thought was, man. W what do you tell parents to do with the shame of like, maybe I've been parenting wrong for the last decade?
Charlie: Talk about that a lot in the parents section, because we make them confess. I have fallen short [00:33:00] and confess their shame over that because I'm an expert in it.
And so we really, one of the sessions, I think it's like the third session. We really bring that out strongly. By this point, you're feeling good. Because you've screwed up and just get that out. This is not about focusing on your screw ups because to be a parent is to screw up. And we joke about the fact that just trust your kids, won't make your mistakes.
They'll make complete opposite ones that are their own, right. Because they won't do what you did. They'll make their own, that are the swinging the pendulum to the other direction.
Tony: They're still going to be connected to you, just like that's exactly right.
Charlie: You know? And and the next generation will be dealing with things that their generation didn't deal with.
Just like our generation dealt with things that our parents' generation didn't deal with. And so we really are very aware of that shame that we feel, you know, I didn't mean to overheat with my kids, but I got sucked into that AAU culture I did. And I, [00:34:00] I mean, I remember Austin telling me one time said, yeah, when I was in fourth grade, all I cared about was where we were going for pizza afterward.
And he said, sometimes I'd be in practice. And I'm getting. Strongly encouraged to pick up my effort and thinking to myself a half an hour ago, I was swinging in our backyard. Hmm. What am I doing here? What am I doing here? And that's how fourth-graders are thinking. You think it's the most important thing ever there?
Oh, where are we going for ice cream afterwards. And, and, and you said the word earlier, Tony, back off, back off of that, it seems counterintuitive. And you'll actually, you know, hold on loosely, but don't let go. You don't let go. It doesn't mean, Hey, they're going to have to find their own way. You just provide what you can provide, financial support, transportation, et cetera.
And then let it go from there. I, I We've got to do it because we're destroying a whole generation. And if you get to session [00:35:00] three in our curriculum and you realize that you've done that, that's okay. I didn't realize it until my kids were 20, 21 years old. And it still wasn't too late for me to confess and to say, I'm so sorry.
And you know, we're still learning. We're still learning. We're still growing as a family. And I'm still confessing my message.
Tony: You know, and making amends, does that become just part of your normal family routine now? I mean, is it, is it almost like, Hey, we're all going to just put our swords. I mean, now you're all adults, obviously you've got grandkids though.
And so you're probably redoing it a little bit differently there, but is it like, is it feels like you would have less power the more often you do it?
Charlie: I mean, hopefully you're not doing it every week, you know, there's that. But I would say this, I would say, well, it's funny. My daughter, Jordan does a lot of creative stuff with our creative arts team and I, when we had this fall started planning for our family [00:36:00] to do that video that you saw about our story.
I did that with. Really assuming she would do it. And she was hurt by that. And she goes, she said something. She goes, dad, when you get into efficiency mode, I feel like you run right over me, man, that I need to hear that. That's exactly it. You're the same way I get into efficiency mode. It's get the job done and I'm starting a campaign.
Get the job done. I got a thousand decisions I got to make today. Okay. You know, be the point in raising $4 million at the end of a pandemic. This is really challenging. And I'm just going click off Jordan doing that video, click it off, just check it off the, well, I didn't, I didn't really say, Hey, I know this is going to be painful.
Would you be willing to do it? Which would have honored her journey more? So here she is. She's 31, 32 years old. We had to have a session where I said that. [00:37:00] Hmm, thank you for that because you were right. I was, I was being Mr. Efficiency, man, and I just run right over people close to me when I do that.
Tony: So as you've now taught this to hundreds of students it is there. Anything that you've learned about God in this process that you didn't know going in, like maybe you had some thoughts about, but like w what's teaching players box, how to depressurize adolescents taught you about Jesus?
Charlie: Well, I do think I have a theory that essentially you see over and over the Lord saying through Jesus, I have taken care of the big stuff now live.
Hmm. You know, don't major in minors and by the way, most of life is minors. The major things seek first, my rule seek first, my [00:38:00] righteousness and all these other things will be given to you as well. I mean, and I think that's the big thing I've learned is. In the words of the spiritual documentary meatballs but bill Murray, you know, I referenced that a lot.
It just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. Remember that. And he's a, he's a whacked outs, counts, camp counselor, and, and as you look back, you realize all that stuff you thought matter really doesn't matter what matters is. Hmm. That's what matters is just love still the greatest power in the world to achieve and to forgive.
I mean, it just, it has, it has. It has recovery power in every realm. It has empowerment in every realm. And if we'll just let that play out if, if your child is good at something, but they don't love it, it doesn't matter if they're good at it. Cause at some point they're not gonna want to keep doing it, [00:39:00] but if they're not that good at something, but they love it.
It doesn't matter that they're not good at it because. Our grandson's not very good swimmer right now. I hope he's not listening to this. We don't get that Democrat nine-year-old he just loves it. He just loves it. And I love going watching him because I don't know a thing about swimming other than what I've done in the pool.
And that's what matters. Okay. If today you hear this and you go, okay, that's not what I thought, but I'm going to believe that. Good for you. If you hear this and you got Nat and this family, we S we, we succeed. There's a really good chance someday. You'll be calling me going. You were right. We got a lot of repairing to do.
This is the thing. There's a good chance. Or there your child will, will spend their life. Because they're going to have to numb the pain somehow.
Tony: Yeah, that's right. Yeah.[00:40:00] So good. Okay. I, I know that people are gonna want to get connected to player's box. They're gonna want to sign their kids up. They're gonna wanna sign themselves up.
Charlie: Where's the bus place to go, to get that, to get all the in our church, south.org. And then on that there's a player's box tab. You can go directly to player's box dot. There's a website for that. Our next session is February 1st. It's a six week session. It includes a middle school, a high school and a parent training that is commensurate six 30 to seven 30 for middle school, six 30 to eight for high school.
So it goes longer for the high schoolers, middle schoolers. Don't want to talk as much high schoolers are they're into talking and usually, and so that'll run six weeks and we'd love to have. Them, we're doing something different with this one. We're going to, we're going to target certain coaches to say, Hey, bring your volleyball team, bring your cross-country team, bring your soccer team.
[00:41:00] In other words, it's winter. So those sports aren't in session, bring your whole team. We'll teach them this tribal speak. That'll be a common pump-up part of your culture as a group, and it'll really help your kids in the moment when they're the ones that are kicking the penalty goal. How do I deal with that?
Yeah, absolutely.
Tony: Absolutely. Yeah. I love that. Okay. Last question. I always love to ask people as an advice question, and I'm going to ask you to give yourself one piece of advice, except I get to name the, the time or the time in your life. And so I'm going to ask you to go back and to speak to that younger version of you the day that your son walked away from.
Charlie: It was, it was the darkest day of my life from the standpoint that he also confessed that he'd been using drugs and I would have done it the way I did it. One thing that I'll tell parents is this. I did something [00:42:00] right. I know it sounds like when I talk, like, man, he just screwed up in every way. Why are we listening to him?
One thing I did right. Was I definitely sat here. Here's why I think you shouldn't go. But we didn't sever the love that had been built over 16 years. So when he started getting tattoos, which, oh, by the way I paid for essentially, and I don't like tattoos, right? No offense to anyone who's tattooed, but that's just not something I understand.
I didn't, I didn't, I didn't go, what are you doing? Spending my money. You know what he was. Yeah, it didn't matter if he had a, his body covered in tattoos didn't matter. And so I think the one thing that I would tell myself again is listen a lot and talk very little. I did very, the only times I regretted the times where I said things that were simplistic axioms or maxims that.
Or so generalized, like, [00:43:00] you know, our family has big egos. Well, that's, I could still remember being at cheesecake factory in Kenwood saying that to my kids when we're at dinner. And it's like, it hurts him so much. Like why I do that. There were times like that, but most of the time I just kept my mouth shut.
Wow. And I'm so glad that I didn't sever the relationship just on the basis that they weren't doing what I think they should do. And the, and especially awesome who was doing some things that were really against, he knew our values. He was, he was, he was you know, really what's psychologically called differentiating in every way to gain his own sense of self.
And I would tell parents don't man, if the room's dirty and, and, and messy, I know I love a clean room to. The big thing you got to do, if your child's struggling to keep him alive. Yeah. Keep him alive. And that means you give up money and you probably ended up paying for some [00:44:00] tattoos. You did. I don't, I'm not saying you have to pay for drugs.
I'm glad I did that. I'm glad that I would give my advice again, that when we were sitting on those bleachers at Centerville soccer stadium stadium, and, and Austin tells me that thank God I would have responded the way I did. I would do it again. Just. Say, Hey, I'm with ya and, and S you leave the door open for love to win.
Tony: Yeah, Charlie, I appreciate the time today. The generosity appreciate you for all the times. You've poured into me over the last couple of years and can't wait to see what God does. Yes. Thank you, bud guys. I just love Charlie and his spirit. And on a personal note, he has been such a good friend to me, mentoring me on what it means to lead a movement.
And he always has time for me, which I deeply appreciate. So do me a favor, check out his website, a player's box, check out what Southbrook is doing in their ministry. Get connected with them all over the socials. And if you have a [00:45:00] student athlete or an academic or an artist at home, someone who might be feeling the extra pressure of life, I want to invite you to connect with them so that we can all grow together more than anything.
I want you to remember, if you want to follow Jesus, you must be willing to move.
