#151: Chris Brown: Transforming Pain into Purpose
Chris Brown is a pastor, speaker, and an incredible storyteller. In today's conversation, he shares the pain of his past, and how it shaped his future.
His story is amazing, and you are going to want to hear it!
Links:
EP. 151
Tony: [00:00:00] Hey everybody. Welcome back to the Reclamation Podcast, where our goal is to help you reclaim good practices for faith and life. I'm Tony. And today is episode 151 of the podcast where I sit down with entrepreneur pastors, speaker and author, Chris brown. And I've been following Chris for a long time, and I know you're going to love his unique voice and the way he.
Kind of nuanced a message about his personal pain into new life. Chris is an incredible communicator and he's a great storyteller and he believes that God wants to do something with your pain. So if you find yourself in pain today, if you are struggling, maybe with a relationship or a work situation, this is a podcast just.
Also, if you haven't done it yet, do me a favor, hit that subscribe button, wherever you listen to podcasts. If you can leave us a rating or review on iTunes, and it would be a huge help. If you shared this episode with a [00:01:00] friend or all over your social media feed, it's a great way to spread the word about what God is doing through this platform.
And as a community, that's what we do. We support each other. So, Hey, if there's any way that I can support you a prayer requests, or if you are looking for more information about a guest, feel free to connect with me. You can go to reclamation, podcasts.com and all my contact information is on there.
I'm pretty easy to find on the internet. You can follow me on Instagram at TW Milt. I'm usually pretty good about responding to those messages as well. So without any further ado, here's my conversation with the legendary Chris brown. Hey everybody. Welcome back to the podcast. I'm excited today to have a speaker, pastor and author Chris brown.
Chris, thank you so much for joining us today,
Chris: Tony. Thank you.
Tony: You know, so I've been following you since the Dave Ramsey days, and then you were with Dave Ramsey and then mule town farm and that whole, and now you're pastoring a [00:02:00] church. I wanted to ask right out of the gates. How do you define the difference between you know, a calling and career?
Chris: That's good. That's a good question. I think for me, my calling is a little bit more macro and I think for all of us, our calling is macro. And so. Think through this little micro calling and really our goal is to glorify God. Our goal is to fill heaven. Those are the uterine ministry and you're listening in.
And so for me, it's what can I do? What can I leverage? What can I maximize in my life to do that. So when I wake up in the morning, heads off the pillow, before it goes back on that pillow before the end of the day, What can I maximize for him? So sometimes, and during certain seasons it's a church and that's what I'm, that's what I feel like God's calling me to, and this next season, but all this time for the last 27 years, it's been, what can I maximize with my skills, with my interests, with my passions, with my experience, with my network, with the, with the energy I have, whatever tools I have.[00:03:00]
How can I, how can I worship God with that? And how could I, you know, the parable of talents, parable bags of gold how can I be a good steward of anything he's putting in my hands, money, time, energy relationships, and so certain seasons, it might be business consulting. Sometimes it's real estate.
Sometimes it's running a farm and running out cabins to people who need ministered to, and need a free place to stay. And then most recently it has been launching a church. Sometimes it's books. Sometimes it's speaking on stages all across America. It's just whatever I can do to bring back.
Tony: I love that. I think there are a lot of people listening who are like, yeah, I want that. And yet I think there's also a big question too, about how do you know when the right time to pivot is like, how do you hear from God? And, and what's your kind of rhythm of like, cause I can get a little add about things myself.
And so like my wife and I had to create a set of rules. You're not acquitted job until you have a job, those kinds of things, you know, like you know, just kind of like, how do you know when God's telling you? Okay. [00:04:00] Time to shift.
Chris: Yeah, totally. Well, you know, I love your, I love your questions. I love that.
You're, you're catching me off guard because sometimes these get kind of these podcasts, get a little stale, a little redundant. So this is awesome. This is fun. You know, Proverbs 22 7 talks about, and this'll be a really weird reference for those of you that know the Bible. Well for this particular question, it says the borrower is enslaved to the.
And this whole idea of slavery or bondage to your person who lends you money. I think the same thing can go for you can be enslaved to an employer. You can be enslaved to a situation. You could be enslaved obviously to somebody you owe money to as well. When you're talking about how do you know when. A lot of folks don't even have the option because they're so in bondage to either debts and some of my Ramsey's coming out, I apologize.
But you're in debt, you're in debt or you are like, so, so because you're spending, maybe you're not in debt. [00:05:00] But because you're living right up to the edge and you have no margin, you have no savings, you have to work there. You can't transfer to another industry. For me, I've jumped industries like crazy throughout throughout my, you know, whatever it's been 20, 25 years of career.
Just because I couldn't because I wanted to, well, how did that happen? Well, because of margin obviously. You're always praying to God, ask him what he'd want from you. But I don't think there's this isolated will like you, man. If you do this one thing on Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Saturdays, you are in his will don't you dare work on a Wednesday and don't, you dare work that straight because you're supposed to work at that street.
I don't think that's the way it is. I think the Bible says he makes your crooked path straight. He doesn't say he makes your straight past straighter they're crooked. We don't even know what we're doing. We're never a hundred percent sure. He's never speaks down to us. And I don't know about everyone else, but for me, he never speaks audibly.
Hey, Chris, go to the right. Four steps. Never, never. His word is a lamp [00:06:00] unto our feet. Not a big, huge monster. Like, you know stadium lights. No, it's just for those next couple of steps. He just whispers in your ear. I've never been more than 85% sure that God's speaking to me and telling me to go a certain direction for me.
I'm like, does it line up with the Bible? Does it line up with my passions? Does it line up with my experience and my giftings? Okay. And that's about as, and you've got to have margin though. You've got to have money in the bank. You've got to have some money in your emotional bandwidth to be able to think through and process, you got to put your pros and cons.
You're going to say, okay, this is a wise decision read through the Proverbs. I love reading a proper day. And so you're always acting in wisdom. Not always, that's an extreme, but most of the time working in wisdom and then you hopefully make good wise decisions.
Tony: So one of the things that's clear is that you love being in scripture.
We love talking about disciple-making here in our disciplines. And one of things we say around here a lot is that if you're not dedicated to your disciplines, you'll be destroyed by your distractions. And so [00:07:00] I love to ask people, what are some of your daily like disciplines, things that you have to do in order to be the person that God has called you?
Chris: Well, for me, it's not like a, okay. Hey Tony. When I get up in the morning, I spent 13.5 minutes in the scripture, and then I go and I take 10 steps to the left and I get on my knees and I pray for 18 minutes. For me, it's like lightness and darkness. We've got these two things in our life. We're going to be exposed to darkness throughout the day, and we're going to be exposed to.
Depending on whether we make good choices for me, I've gone through seasons or I've gone through days or even gone through weeks. I might get into a Netflix show that I shouldn't be watching. Conviction just came all over the show just now for everybody. But and I will find myself cause I'm really into that like crime.
And so with crime comes drugs and it comes violence and it comes from cussing. And I will watch a Netflix show and get kind of like one after another. And I'll find my spirit internally, my soul and my, I can [00:08:00] feel darkness, my thought patterns I'll immediately walk outside and I'd be like, okay, that door over there, it looks sketchy.
I wonder if there's a drug deal going by, like where my mind on what, how I'm in this beautiful suburban a suburb of Nashville. And here I am thinking about drug deals and like, I just build my, my mind was so much darkness. So if you're asking me the question, how do I, I just want the light to drown out the darkness.
So some days that could be two hours, some days it could be 15 minutes. Some days it could be six hours. When I look at a given week and I'm looking at the rhythms of my life, I want the light to, by far Trump, the darkness. And ideally we'd get all the darkness out of our lives, but. I'd be lying to everybody on this show.
If I said, man, I don't, I don't, I don't stumble upon a Netflix show every once in a while, where I feel guilty, you know, those Netflix shows where you're like, Hey dude, you got to watch this. And then. You find out, oh shoot. I was desensitized. I didn't know it was that bad. I can't leave a recommended that someone I'm supposed to be a pastor.
There's [00:09:00] some of those moments for sure.
Tony: Yes. Yes. And amen. That, that happens. I think. So a lot of us frequently. I love the idea of the light. Do you have any regular rhythms? And I, I know you know, in your church, community's important. I know you've obviously got a church community, but I get the impression that you've been walking with people for a long time, like an intentional community.
You know, I followed you long enough on, on Instagram to know that what kind of rhythms do you have with other guys who can maybe help you see. Things that you can't see on your own.
Chris: Yeah, I'm super big on the proximity principle. And first Corinthians 1533 says, do not be misled bad company, corrupts, good behavior or good habits.
Another translation says. And that first part of that verses do not be missing. Well, the reason why that's there is because we could be misled. And we think that being around [00:10:00] the wrong people are isn't going to affect us, but it will. It really well when I was a kid, my mom used to say, if you act, if you hang around with trash, you'll begin to smell like it.
I've heard other sayings that we can't repeat on this podcast, but I think we all get the point, but the opposite is true. You're going to act like who you hang out with. You got to hang out with people with a victim's mentality or a Victor's mentality, which ones are going to be ones going to pull you up.
One's going to push you down. One's going to get you to think higher and get you to to see things that are at a higher level. So for me, proximity principle, I've always tried to surround myself with people that are way. Further along the journey than I am. And all of us listening in and you all come from different backgrounds different industries and just whatever in your world, somebody who's farther than you are needs to be pulling you along.
And so for me, I've just been really blessed. My childhood. I didn't have a whole lot of fi I didn't have like a father figure. I had a lots of [00:11:00] men in my life, but they were all. Just to kind of a bad example of what fatherhood should be. And so I had a ton of gaps in my life when it came to. But somehow, man, God has been so good through middle school, through high school, through college, through my adult life, God has really put me around a lot of great godly men who have mentored me and the lead man even in ministry I've found myself serving alongside some really like some spiritual giants and just been really favored in that area.
So proximity principle. I just ask everybody listening in who you hang up. Are they pulling you up or are they pushing you down? There's actually a financial stat out there that says you'll make within 10% of the 10 people that you hang out with the most throughout your lifetime, your lifetime income will be within 10 days.
So some of you were like, man, I need new friends. So you just gotta be careful who you're hanging out with and they'll get you to think higher or lower, you [00:12:00] know, that victim's mentality of can't get ahead, man. This life is so hard. And then the government's out to get us and this whole focusing on what you can't control or are you a winner and focused on what you can do?
Tony: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. As you said, proximity. I, I had a thought in my head because one of the things that's I've noticed is you and your wife are now doing ministry together in very close proximity, and it would, it would seem, you know, just, you know, thinking about this logically, you guys are in proximity together all the time.
You guys been married for over 20 years. Yeah. The best I can tell. First time you guys have ever worked together, what has it been like having your wife on the church staff that you get demanding?
Chris: Yeah, there was a small season of about five years in south Florida where we served together before. And we absolutely love it.
I mean, it is, it is. I just feel like it's almost, it's just not fair that we get to work together. [00:13:00] It's a blast. We are, we truly are best friends way before we are husband and wife. We just absolutely love each other. And we don't see eye to eye on every decision that is for darn. But yeah, there's my incorrect answer.
And then hers, her, her, correct. She is just really, really smart and I'm just really, really sharp. And so we love certain together. I think we have to be mindful that. That sometimes we get a little too driven and we get a little bit too ministry focused. And you know, we get a little too desensitized to how special it is and get to familiar.
The law of familiarity is a big one for us. We, we can see it creep in like crazy. And next thing you know, there goes romance and there goes love and respect there coming here comes the sarcasm here comes the just being too direct and really slash rude. And so we have to slow that down every once in a while.
Is that. We're acting like, like business partners, like ministry partners or, or coworkers, and that's not okay. We need to remember that we are we're lifetime partners and we're in love. We need to remember that. [00:14:00] So that, that does come with challenges for sure. But I'll take the pros over the cons.
Tony: Do you guys have to do much to protect, not talking about church or, you know, your work at home? Cause I, I mean, I know that in my world I can get, I mean, I'm fairly driven and I can be I'm addictive. I have addictive personality. And so like, I'm like, well, we should be talking about all the things that, you know, we're engaged in together at home and that's not always a healthy rhythm.
Do you guys have to battle that very.
Chris: Yeah. You know, we we're the same boat. We she's an eight on the Instagram. I'm a three, but we both are like super high achievers. And like, we probably run way too hard, way too fast. We just love getting stuff done. We love checking things off a list. We'd love to be able to say that we left the cave and, and killed something and brought it home.
So we didn't, we just love winning. So. I, you know, for me when the way we started this conversation, as we started this conversation with you had asked me about calling and I, I told you about macro calling versus micro calling. And our macro [00:15:00] calling has been in. And it's not a thing that we do between nine and five or nine, and it's this, it's a lifestyle of ministry and loving on people.
And so it's kind of hard to gauge where the line is. Is there a time where we're like, Hey, look, we're going to go away for a couple of days and just focus on each other or, Hey, you know what, from like 6, 8, 6 PM to 8:00 PM, we're going to have a dinner right now with no phones. I think that's wise.
But I think to like for me to only work 40 or 50 hours and then shut it off. And then there's like 40 or 50 hours for us to, you know, just per recreation. I, I, I have a problem with that ratio for me. I feel like you only, when that Yolo thing, you only live once, I feel like it's the only live once for the kingdom.
You only live once for God. I think we got all of heaven to enjoy ourselves. So we're probably a little weird that way. We're just. We actually, when we like, Hey man, we're going to really like spend the weekend Friday, Saturday, and Sunday and walk around the farm and we're going to go out to breakfast, lunch, and dinner, and [00:16:00] we're going to go shop.
We get bored. Like we were just like they're just things. And so for us, that's most fulfilling to us when we can combine community and purpose together. I think when in our lives, when we have community without purpose, what we have is, is as a district. And when we have purpose, but no community, it turns into an obligation.
So I think when you have the, the hybrid of both of those together, that's where we have the most fulfilling and rewarding lives. There's that scripture found in Proverbs 1125 that says the generous will prosper. But the second part of that verse says those who refresh. Themselves are refreshed.
And I just think, I mean, when we need a refreshment, the first thing that the Western world or America, probably the whole world, the first thing we do is like, oh, I need a massage. I need a vacation and I need a, I need to coddle myself. And I need to self care [00:17:00] the times where I've been the most refreshed in my life is when I focused on others.
Not myself. Yeah.
Tony: Yeah, that's, that's really good. I I'm an eight on the Enneagram as well. And my wife gets nervous. If I'm sitting too long, cause that's generally mean I'm not in a healthy place. Like it's just not a good, it's just not a good vibe for me at all. You know, you, you've mentioned a couple of times about the idea of, of winning and it's interesting.
Cause the book is very vulnerable about all the things that you've lost. And so I would love to hear about how God moved in your heart that, Hey, this is the time for me to share some really tough stuff.
Chris: Well, you know when I worked at Dave Ramsey's those of you that are familiar with my role at Ramsey solutions and some of you don't know Dave Ramsey, but he is a kind of America's voice on personal finance, especially when it comes to a biblical approach.
For sure. Yeah, just a real conservative approach. There's other [00:18:00] approaches out there that talk about, you know, debt leveraging and stuff like that, but he's more, he's more conservative. But anyway, my role there was to be his voice to the church in America, specifically from the biblical side of personal finance, which is what this term called stewardship, which, you know, some of you may have heard that in church and you think automatically think giving campaign, that's not what it means.
The word stewardship actually means managing God's blessing. God's way for God's glory. And it's not just about money. It's managing everything in our life for him. And it stems from and passage of scripture in Matthew 25, 14 through 30, the parable of the talents or the parable, the bags of gold, where one of the servants was given five bags.
One was given two bags and one was given one bag. And the whole point is when the master came back, they had to give an account for what they did with what they were given to manage that. But to manage and to go back to your question, why did I feel like I needed to come out with all that? [00:19:00] I, I believe that an all of us, we have we all have pain.
We all have a past and that past we can give it purpose. And I think we can all excavate all of that pain in a way that's healthy, not in a way that's unhealthy and leverage that for a lot of different ways. And that's what the book is about. Lots of different like micro pains throughout my childhood and my early adult.
That for me, I'm on purpose being vulnerable, being transparent, getting it all out there on my journey, on how to take all of those little micro pains and how to leverage those for the kingdom. Whether that is to be a better friend, whether it be a better husband, a better dad, whether it's to be to empathize better.
So for me, we just as managing God's blessings, God's way for God's glory. That also means your. And so for me, I couldn't help him teach stewardship about money for four or five years and not take that same [00:20:00] principle and say, Hey, Chris, you have a pretty crazy jacked up past. How can you steward that for the kingdom?
And for me, the number one way is to document it all and try to make sense of it all and then share it all. No matter how vulnerable I feel.
Tony: What did you learn about yourself in the process of writing it all down on paper?
Chris: Well, you know, there's one thing there. Recall his story loosely. Then it's another thing to dive into an old story and like relive.
And dive into, like, what did it smell? Like, what did it look like in that room? What did it feel like? What was I, what was my, what were the emotions I was feeling at the time? And you can kind of go back and just see the crocker, the cockroach going across the carpet, and you can kind of hear the neighbors speaking through the thin walls.
You can just replay all the smells and That was tough. That was a tough process. I learned a lot about how much pain I still have and I need to process how much I kind of like just [00:21:00] shoved down. But when you start to relive it, it's a hard, it's a grueling process, but I'm telling you already the book doesn't even come out for a little while.
At the time that we're recording this, it doesn't come out for a couple of while, a couple months, but When it does, it's it's, it's going to be hard to it's going to be very, very. I'm going to feel very exposed and vulnerable that everyone's got this in their hands and that everyone's reading the deepest parts of my life.
Tony: Hey guys, just pause in this conversation with Chris to remind you about the business leaders cohort through spirit in truth. That's right. For 12 months, I'm going to connect with like-minded leaders. Who want to Excel in their faith and their work. This Christian leader, Christian business leaders cohort is through my ministry here at spirit and truth.
And to learn more, to get connected, go to spirit and truth.life, spirit, and truth.life. Now let's continue our conversation. With pastor Chris. Yeah. I think that there are probably a lot of people who are going to [00:22:00] get their hands on this book and read about the various moments in your story, because you tell them with great detail and then you tie them to something current or, you know, kind of as an adult than a lot of cases.
And be like, I don't know if I could do. With my story. And I guess I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on, because I do believe this has gotta be, have some healing attributes. And I do believe biblically that God wants to, to use our pain, to build the kingdom. How do we get from, okay. I've got serious pain to, okay.
I'm going to let God use it to build the kingdom. Like what is there, is there some magical steps in the middle or is it just write it down and let it.
Chris: Yeah, well, I think probably, you know, finding some safe places to process for me, my wife has a great source to process and I went, I did go to several counselors to.
To get me to see things from a different point of view. One of the things I had several men in my life that were less than ideal men [00:23:00] to have around the home to just put that nice and loosely lots of violence, lots of anger, lots of irresponsibility, lots of just instability, big time. And so I always just naturally, it just made sense to be really, really angry, angry at the guy.
All these men I'm like so angry with her boyfriend or husband or a mom was married four times and just automatically assume that well, as I got in and talking to a counselor, I realized this was a big revelation. I can still remember where I was sitting when, when, when this counselor kind of enlightened me on this.
And she leaned over and she said, Hey, your, your issue is not really with your dad. Or your dads, your real issue is with your mom. Your anger is in your mom's decision-making and her instability and her that you weren't good enough for her. As a life partner that she had to keep running to bad men.
And that you were mad because you were a great provider when there was no men around, you took a lot [00:24:00] of pride in the fact that you actually ran the home. You did all the laundry, you help cook. You help take care of your little brother. You went to work after school. You gave her all the money. When you worked after school, you got great grades.
And then, then she'd just go find another bum. And then she would ditch you and treat you like a kid again. And she treated you like a husband and it's treated like a kid and treated like a that's so unstable and so unfair and so bad emotionally for you that you're actually angry at your mom. And those kinds of revelations happen when you process with somebody.
So if somebody is wanting to excavate the pain from their past, I had to find some safe places to process and allow yourself to go through the deep work. There is a fulfilling joy filled life. On the other side of excavating our pain and transforming the sting of your pain into purpose for today.
Tony: I'm also curious why your kids are teenagers for the most part, I think.
And I've got a 16 year old son who I'm trying to [00:25:00] disciple and grow into young manhood and At what point did you, I mean, this is obviously this is going to impact them. What was that conversation like to expose your pain? And, and I mean, this is, again, people should pick up the book because there's no way we could tell all the stories that you experienced.
It's. You know, it's, it's heartbreaking. It's wild. It's all of it. How, how did you expose that pain to your kids and then give them space to feel whatever it is they needed to feel as well?
Chris: Yeah, I think the, the, the most notable dynamic between me and my kids when it comes to this work is it's been really hard for me throughout the years to not.
Their childhood looks a lot different than mine to say the least their childhood is dramatic, could not be further from the, from what, and really that's me rebelling against what I experienced and said, no, not on my watch. That's not going to happen to my kids, but I've got to be really careful not to lead [00:26:00] them from.
I've gotta be really careful, man. I get super like bent out of shape when it comes to, if I even sense a little bit of entitlement, when you come from a upbringing like I came from, or if they throw away food from somebody who has a scarcity mindset still today, those kinds of things that come out. If I hear an, of course, we all have entitlement.
Let's just go ahead and be honest. But when it, man, there's something about teenagers, they don't know how to mask it. And it's just so blatant and so obvious. And you're like, no way, are you serious? Like these hundred and $30 shoes are not good enough for you. Well, you have like eight pairs of them. Like this is really, are we serious right now?
Or like you just, you just. It's normal to spend 40 bucks at the bowling alley. You know, it's like, what, how did we get here for me? That's just so weird for me. Like growing up that would never happen. And so I've gotta be really careful not to lead from my baggage as far as how they receive it.
They're proud of it. They're proud of my [00:27:00] vulnerability. They don't know what to do with that vulnerability and that authenticity and genuineness and like raw just in today's world. It's so rare. Everyone's putting on a front, everyone's got a mask, we got it all put together. And so I actually start the book off with a boardroom discussion with my boss and my boss's bosses.
This is actually at Ramsey solutions. And they were telling me we were breaking down game film of one of my talks. And w one of them just said, Hey, you know, like you just come across as like, you're this guy that was, you know, silver spoon in your mouth. And you've, you've got the look. And like, man, we just know you grew up on the right side of the railroad tracks kind of thing.
And I was like, I could not even believe that people look at me that way. I don't see myself that way at all. And so when I let them know a little bit more about my past, I'm like, whoa. And so for me, It's just to remember, you know, that authenticity and transparency goes a long way on my kids. Really appreciate that.
Tony: What are the areas that you touch on in the, in the book? That's [00:28:00] kind of something I wanted it to drill down a little bit deeper is the difference between sin and shame. And there's an interesting Pardon and the book about that, but it feels like it's so big in our community. I'm wondering if you could talk a little about the difference between sin and shame and how they both have the tendency to really wreck our lives.
Chris: Yeah. You know, the the biggest thing about sin that we don't, we don't really when we're in the middle of it, whether it's private sin or public sin, especially the private stuff. Cause you kind of like subconsciously think that you're getting away with it. We have to understand that you cannot have sin and have peace at the same time.
It's impossible. You can't. So when you said even privately. Even in your thought life and you like dwell on that and you don't capture that thought, throw it away. You actually hold on to it and allow it to take you captive you. What you're doing is you're forfeiting peace at the same time. And so even if there's no shame involved, we are [00:29:00] always making that decision sin or peace, but you cannot have both.
And so when you find yourself. You find yourself in patient. When you come home, you find yourself not really enjoying the moment you can't even be in the moment. All that stuff is a lack of peace because you're carrying some kind of lifestyle of sin. Now you can not have peace for other reasons, too, but when you carry sin, a lifestyle of sin, a continual choice of sin, you are giving up peace.
When it comes to shame, I try to, I try to preach like this. Whenever I preach on the weekends, say, Hey, this weekend's going to be. This is going to be a convicting subject for all of us, myself included, as long as we understand the holy spirit convicts us because well, the holy Spirit's active, the holy spirit cares about us.
The holy spirit loves us. And so the holy spirit is going to be involved. And if you're a follower of Christ, if you're listening in right now and you're a follower of Christ, The holy Spirit's going to convict you because what spirit wants what's best for you doesn't want anything from you. But John 10, 10 says that he came to give [00:30:00] us life and life to the full life abundantly.
We give that up. We give up life to the full life would bundle. Because of sin, giving up peace in his sin. And so for what I would just say, I tell people every weekend, Hey, shame off of you. Not shame on you. This is not about shame. This is not about condemnation. This is about giving you a glimpse of what God wants for you, so that you can live the life that he came to give you.
He's a loving. He wants what's best for us. And when we choose sin, he doesn't want to shame you. I think about a loving father, a loving father does not want to shame their kids. A loving father just generally wants what's best for you and wants you to live in peace. Because when he says live to the full life abundantly, he's not talking about a Mercedes and a mansion.
He's talking about peace. He's talking about comfort. He's talking about joy. He's talking about fulfillment. You can't have that in a lifestyle.
Tony: I love that language shame off of you. [00:31:00] Are there you know, I would imagine like aside from self-talk, is there anything else that you do to try to like, make sure that you keep that shame off of you?
I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm from a Wesleyan tradition, so I'm in a band meeting, we get together and confess sins as a way to just re you know, kind of release all that. I'm curious if you have any practices in your life that people could steal to help keep the shin shame off.
Chris: Yeah, I think, you know, I have not formalized this because it's such a deep part of who I am, but if somebody wanted to formalize this, whenever you have your quiet time or God time or whatever you call it, you can put in your top right hand corner of your journal or whatever you do.
However you want to formalize this, but you've got to understand at the core identity of who you are. Exactly who you are. You are not your heritage. You are not your pedigree. You are not your family lineage. You are not what you did yesterday. You're not your position. You're not your social network.
You're not what suburb you live in, or [00:32:00] what part of the street you live in. You're not your economic status. You're not your religious your political party, your identity. Your durable core of who you are. If you don't get this right. You're not going to be durable, you're going to be fragile.
And so you're going to be insecure all the time and you're going to be wobbling waffling to the left waffling to the right. And so you've got to understand you were made on purpose in God's image. Number one, you are his workmanship. The Bible says about what goes on to say that you are made for a purpose.
So if you don't understand that, There's no way you can. You're always going to be in shame of like, oh, I just, I did this wrong. I did that wrong. No, he did not make a perfect he's made in your made in his image. He didn't make another God. He didn't make another Jew. Like you're not supposed to be perfect.
So a lot of times we have unrealistic expectations when we drop the ball or we make a mistake. We're shocked. Why are we. I don't know. We, the fact that we made a mistake, it's like, hello is not. If you're going to make a steak mistake, it's [00:33:00] when, and hopefully throughout your journey, you're making different mistakes, but the shame thing will absolutely wreck you.
And so you got to remember who you are and however you formalize that's up to you. And if you really. Who you are. And you remember God's promises of all the times that he showed his love, Luke two, fifteens that other ones, as far as the prodigal son and how he loved, Hey, you made a mistake, come on. And then we're gonna actually throw a party for you, right?
Read Luke 15. That's who that's, who your God is. And so you may just have an inaccurate view of your loving.
Tony: That's great. And, and the best way to get that accurate view is to go back to scripture, right?
Chris: Yeah. Yeah. Or, you know, in someone you can really have just really, remember, we go back to friends, proximity, principle, people that know the Bible more than you, or people that know that had already wrestled with this before you are people and they can actually relay scriptures to you verbally And if you're not kind of a reader or whatever, you do need to be on the word, everybody has to be in the word directly, but man, if you're not there yet, just get around [00:34:00] people who are in the word and borrow their faith for a little while.
Tony: Yeah. I love that. I think it really prevents us from remaking God in our image. Instead, we can be transformed in his and that difference feels so profound. And I think there's a lot about what you're talking about. And I, I know that my listeners, they love to pray. And is this book. Kind of gets out into the wilderness and really gets out there.
How can they be praying for you and kind of, what's the general kind of corporate prayer for the.
Chris: Well, the goal is in a way it's the way it's written is there's the, yes, there's a story that's compelling and the story that's interesting. And the one that gets, you know, allows you to get to know the author a little bit more and you can kind of see yourself in the story so that each chapter is kind of this loose model where you've got story that gets everyone's attention.
And it's captivating and it, and I'll get you to think a little bit then after that is. Okay. How did the pain that came from that, or the tragedy that [00:35:00] came out of, how can we leverage that gets everyone to think in a different way to think kind of a different perspective of like, not poor me, but how can I transform this sting of this into purpose and then that I can then the third.
Of each chapter is okay, what are some ways that we can apply this to our lives and kind of get her by some ideas on how this may look in their life. And so the prayer would be that everyone would go on that journey of one, the application of all, all the the work it takes to dig up that pain.
Number one, and number two that everybody who reads it would. Be open to the vulnerability. It takes. I really, especially for men and most of them, all the stats say that most of my readers will just naturally be women. I think women, more women read there will be an audio audio version for men for whenever they're doing something else.
But I just men right now they're so guarded and the, [00:36:00] the The description of a real man is so distorted and what a real man really is. And my goal for men specifically, and I haven't even communicated this to anybody yet. But that men would see what a real man should look like. Not that I'm a real man, but the wrestle of the vulnerability and the the strength and weakness And then just the humility of saying, Hey, I don't have my act together.
That everyone feel I'd give them a little bit of a excused and unexcused, but give them permission to, to lighten up a little bit and not take themselves so seriously. It's
Tony: beautiful. And important, you know, I think it's really going to cause people to think about their own story. I certainly have seen my own self as I've read parts of your story.
I can see parts of my own story in there and it, it really begins to make me wonder, am I leaving it on the shelf or am I using it to build the kingdom of God? You know, I desperately want to do so. [00:37:00] I really appreciate the authenticity. I have one more question for you, but before I, before I ask it, I want to I know my listeners are going to want to find you on the interwebs.
Where's the best place to connect with what God is doing through.
Chris: Chris brown on air.com. All one word, not Chris brown, no hair Chris brown on air. And that's just because I used to have a radio show, but Chris brown on air on all, all social media platforms and the website. And then of course all the book information.
Tony: So the last question I always love to ask people is an advice question. And I'm going to ask you to go back and give yourself a one piece of advice, except I get the name that the kind of the time when the advice takes place. Yes. And so I want to take you back to day one. When you first lived on your own.
You, you, you kind of, you're out there doing your own thing. Now you're a young man. If you could go back and talk to that [00:38:00] younger version of Chris, sit him down in a chair, right in front of you. Look them in the eyes. What's the one important piece of advice that you want to give them.
Chris: Oh man, you got me on this one. All right. But first day as an adult, that's what you're saying here. Huh? First day on that. I've been blown away my entire adult life by the truth that I really don't know what I don't know. I know it doesn't sound deep, but man, I'm telling you every season that goes by, I almost laugh at myself, but how little I knew three months prior and three months prior and three months prior.
And now I look back to that. Oh, my whatever that was 18. No, it was 22. Just graduated from college that first apartment that Holly and I had and thinking that I was a big boy adult, no offense to any that are 22, but man, I cannot even believe it. I feel like we were doing really well. I think we did great for 22.
We did great for [00:39:00] 24 did great for 27, but I am blown away. By how little we knew and how, and three months from now, and six months from now, 10 years from now, I'm going to laugh at this interview and be like, Chris, that was cute. That was really cute. So just, Hey everyone. And just know that you have no clue.
And there are people that are, that are older than you, man. Please talk to the 75 year olds, please talk to the 88th efficient spit out the bones of they start talking with someone's weird, but they've got some tons of wisdom and we need to listen.
Tony: That's wonderful, Chris, thank you so much for your generosity and your vulnerability and your authenticity and all that.
And our conversation today. It's, it's truly been.
Chris: Yeah, me too. Thanks Tony.
Tony: I told you guys what a powerful dialogue with him. I love his story. I love his vulnerability authenticity. It's just such a man, a [00:40:00] great reminder that God wants to do great things through our pain. So follow Chris all over the internet, let him know that you heard him here on the reclamation podcast.
Tell them how much you appreciate it. I appreciate you and I love the community that we're building here together. Thank you guys so much for listening. And remember, if you want to follow Jesus, you must be willing to move.
