#150: Elizabeth Woodson: Embrace Your Life
Elizabeth Woodson wants to help you find Biblical contentment in the midst of life's major storms.
She is an author, theologian, and disciple maker you need to listen to!
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EP. 150
Tony: [00:00:00] Hey everybody. Welcome back to the reclamation podcast, where our goal is to help you reclaim good practice. Through faith and life. I'm Tony. And today is episode number 150. Let's go now truly so excited to celebrate this milestone with you. Hard to believe that I've been doing this for almost three years and man, it wouldn't be any fun if you weren't here.
I love, love, love connecting with you guys all over the interwebs, and I'm thankful for you. I really do pray every time we put out an episode that our intentional conversations help you move closer to Jesus. That's what we want. We want to help you reclaim good practices for faith. And for life. So here we are episode one 50 and today I get to sit down with Liz Woodson.
Liz Woodson is a [00:01:00] theologian. She's a voice about discipleship, which I love. She's a pastor she's ridiculously smart. I think you're going to love listening to her conversation. She's, she's got that right balance of practical and super. Super smart. So I just love it. I think we have a great dialogue about her latest resource.
Embrace your life. It's all about sitting in the pain and how lament is pregnant with hope. Some really good stuff here that I think you're gonna do. And if you do enjoy it, do me a favor, hit that button that says, subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts at, I use overcast, but wherever you listen, hit that subscribe button, leave a rating or review on iTunes or Spotify really does go a long way to help people find the podcasts.
And and Hey, maybe even share this episode with a friend. We love, love, love. Hearing about the referrals and when people tell us they're sharing the episodes out there, we're just incredibly thankful for that. Also guys, you may or may not know, but I'm a part of [00:02:00] this spirit in truth podcast network.
That's right. Just a group of like-minded podcasts who are all about helping you grow in the faith. So there's some great podcasts. You need to check out the podcast, this podcast, the plain truth podcast, and there's more and more coming. So. To learn more about spirit and truth to get connected, go to spirit and truth.life, spirit, and truth.life all over the interwebs.
And now without any further ado, here's my conversation with Elizabeth Woodson. Welcome back to the podcast. I'm excited today to have author speaker and theologian, Liz Woodson, Liz, thank you so much for being here today, Tony.
Elizabeth: Thanks for having me. I'm excited for our.
Tony: Well, I have to say that there aren't many people who I talk to who who are so passionate about disciple-making and I, I love disciple-making.
It is my absolute favorite thing to talk about in the church. So I would love to hear a little bit about how you got started as somebody how you got started on this kind of passionate discipleship journey, because you talk [00:03:00] a lot about it, a lot on your platform, and that's not super common. It's not a.
It's just not very trendy.
Elizabeth: Yeah. The long arduous work or disciple-making, it doesn't make for quick posts. You know, for me, I would say that all people's journey with the Lord or what they teach on or kind of what you hear from them the most is usually comes from their own life. And so my love for discipleship really is rooted in this nagging question I had since I was kid.
I grew up in a Christian household and my parents are Christians, wonderful people. But because Jesus was just what we did when I came to Christ, not much changed. And so it took years of me trying to figure out what is the gospel for me, not for my parents. What does it for me? Why does this matter?
Why do I give my life to this? And really being in places where I wasn't being. And I was just so hungry for the word. And so that for me, has birthed that desire to want to take people on the journey. I believe God has [00:04:00] taken me on to find the deep things to go for having a shallow faith. That's not strong enough to handle the hard seasons to really substantively now.
This is who God is, who I am. This is what I've been called to. And this is the beauty of my faith. Even when it doesn't feel like it's beautiful. But it's my own story of high school with college of after college. And you know, all the things we do and the Lord brings us back and he has met me in that place.
And I want to take people on that same.
Tony: So I'm, I'm curious, was there someone in your faith journey who was that Paul presence for you? Who, who walked alongside you and your journey of faith and kind of discipled you? Or was it more, did you have to kind of figure it out as.
Elizabeth: It was a little bit of both.
And so I definitely would say that my hunger kept me going back. You know, I worked for a church. I worked for two different churches in Dallas. And so I know what it's like to kind of be on the other end of people getting lost in the hustle and bustle of church. And so, you know, sometimes you have to be, not take no for an answer.
I'm gonna need [00:05:00] y'all to call me back and put me in a small group.
And so I had some good mentors in college. And mentors who after college invited me to join a small group and it was life on life for me. So it wasn't just me sitting in a classroom and learning information. Information is great. We need it, but it was people who could call me on my stuff and say, Elizabeth, I see this in your life.
And I need you to do better. Or people who could walk beside me in the hard moments, people who could answer my questions, that people could just model for me, good Christian community. And those were like, Specifically after college with my college mentors were really significant in my own discipleship journey.
Tony: That's awesome. How do you find the people that you're going to pour into today? I mean, obviously you're, you're doing it on your platform and you guys are doing the, you're giving your, your Bible and 90, which I love by the way, Instagram, if you're not following us on Instagram, go follow her. It's a good follow she's putting out good biblical content, but like on your life, on life stuff, how do you discern.[00:06:00]
One of the things we talk about, and I was kind of trained up with the navigators. We talk about being fat, faithful available, teachable, right? How do you discern who you're going to pour into? Because I'm sure that there are a lot of young women who are, or knocking at the door for that mentorship or that intentional.
Elizabeth: Yeah. Usually I try to stick close to home, which is my local church. And so these are people who are showing up in the spaces that I am already people I know. And so it's not a brand new, I have people who I've just sent an email to. And so I also believe we've got the cold called the second shift request because the Lord can move in really powerful ways, but it's just women that I'm already in relationship with.
And I was going to say that same acronym that you gave, because I have found that people have to be home. And so generally when I'm meeting with someone for the first time, I just ask them, what do you, why do you think that I can help you on your journey? And some people, cause there's specific things I do, I'm a theologian.
So we're going to take a deep dive into the text. We're going to learn some truth and some people that they're not ready for, that that's not the season of [00:07:00] life they're in. And so I want to make sure that me and whoever the Lord has brought alongside, is it arguably. And that I can help them and send them on the next, next step of the journey, whether that's me or even, Hey, you might want to call this person.
And I think they might be a better fit for you, but I usually have this introductory conversation about what they want to do and where they want to go and their relationship with the Lord, because ultimately it's their personal kind of, I want it spirit. That's going to help them be able to walk on it, be consistent in the journey.
Tony: Yeah. That's very similar to what I do that bake that first conversation once it's time. That's where the rubber meets the road is super important. Cause I always tell people that we're not going to do this unless you're going to go do it for someone else that that's spiritual reproduction for me is so important.
So casting that vision early about, Hey, this isn't, this is not, you come tell me all your problems and I give you wisdom. This is us finding wisdom in the texts. And then reproducing it for the kingdom, you know, I think that's, I think that's super important.[00:08:00] Now you're obviously a writer and a theologian, and so you're studying scripture all the time.
What kind of disciplines do you do on a daily basis to stay solid?
Elizabeth: Yeah. You know, for me, it's just important to get in the text. And so, like you said, on my social, I've been doing this 90 days to the Bible. And so it's just a fun way for me to keep myself accountable. When you tell the whole world what you're going to do every week would do it.
But it just is how can I just read through scripture? And so I'll put on my headphones and I will just listen to my Bible app and I will just listen to the word and then take time to go through the reflection. Practices. And I've learned over the years to help me dig down deep. And sometimes I don't need to look up the Greek and Hebrew.
I just need to be sensitive to what the holy spirit draws to my attention that day and spend some time in prayer. Something else I do is it's called the divine hours. And so it is just a structured way to pray throughout the day. And I found that [00:09:00] helpful. Sometimes we don't always have the words to prayer.
We feel like I'm praying the same things and the divine hours. It's I it's an online. Website that you can go to, but also as a book you can buy on Amazon and it's just scripture and it's just scripture that you're praying and just keeps your mind. I always like to talk about Alexandra Hoovers and other person that I follow online.
And she talks about keeping your eyes up and how do we keep our eyes up to who God is. And so that really helps me just structured prayer and being in the word. And then when I'm doing well, some Sabbath and solitude are simple spiritual practices that don't with.
Tony: It's solitude
hard
Elizabeth: for you. Yes I love people.
I love talking. And so my favorite thing to do is be around good friends and good food. And so when it's just me and the Lord, or just being busy, I think we've learned how to do that in our Western culture. It's just, yeah, just gotta keep producing. Kind of got to keep going and just being quiet and not being productive as we would normally say.
[00:10:00] But just being present with the Lord phones off, no music to silence and solitude. It's such a sweet space, but it doesn't come easy.
Tony: Me either, it's really hard for me because I love to talk so much and I love people and I love all those things you said, and I'll even use the excuse of like I need to write something down.
This could be really good for a sermon later or like, Ha ha how do you how how'd you start getting better at it?
Elizabeth: Yeah, I think I just started to you just start walking in some sense and not trying to be perfect. And so if I'm on your side, To be okay. It's okay to come back. Or I have a little note pad next to me.
And so that all the little kind of, there's a squirrel ideas that come into my mind, I can write down and how I show myself grace. Cause we sometimes I think can enter into the disciplines, wanting to be perfect and feel if I'm that perfect, then I just can't do it at all. And it just, it's just a little bit more than you did the day before.
Five [00:11:00] minutes is better than nothing. And five minutes can turn into 10 minutes and 10 minutes can turn into an hour. And for my superstars out there, you know, there are those people that we read throughout church history who spent days in solitude, but they build up to that. I think we read their story and they're like, I could never do that, but you can do five or 10 minutes or a half an hour because we do plenty of other things with our time.
And so we have the ability, it's just asking the holy spirit to do what. Which is a quick pass to be present with him.
Tony: I did my first silent retreat this year, and it was really hard.
Elizabeth: How many days were you out there? Three.
Tony: It was three. It was three. And what I found is, is that I had to break it up.
I had to schedule different activities. And so like, there were some times where it was like, okay, I'm going to Bible open journal open. And so I'm going to do some intense study and then some intense physical activity and then some intense. Walking, you know, or like something kind of a [00:12:00] whimsical almost, you know, and so that it was different, but it was, it wasn't my favorite.
Elizabeth: That's, that's a lot, I think three days in silence is, is a lot.
Tony: But but like you said, right, you only get better at it. If you keep doing it, keep doing it.
Elizabeth: If you keep doing that.
Tony: So, yeah, I like that a lot. I want to change the subject a little bit because I think it's a worthwhile thing to bring up.
So obviously you're an African-American woman and in a, in a theologian theological field Many of you in this field. And I've even noticed as I've tried to be intentional with diversity on my platform. Like it's just there. It's just hard to find. Yeah. And so I would love to just ask a question here and Just really longing for understanding is, is what's it like to be such a minority in, in a field like this?
[00:13:00] And, and as somebody who's not a minority, what can I do to walk alongside you? You, you certainly don't need my help in anything. I don't, I don't know. I don't know what the right way to say it is, but my heart is, is like, how can I say. More people better. Yeah. That makes sense.
Elizabeth: You know, it's difficult because you know, Christianity in America for lots of different reasons.
The voices that dominate the spaces tended to be those of white males. And so, you know, on I mean, and again, it's a spectrum and. When you think about who you invite into rooms, you tend to let people that are in your circles and people that look like you and people that you feel comfortable with.
And so I have had people who don't look like me, some of my best mentors have been other white men or. White women who are just really kind and open up space for me and gave me a seat at the table. They gave me a space to be developed and space to grow. And so for me in those places, sometimes it's a really fun opportunity for me to bring a different perspective for me [00:14:00] to bring the rich tradition of the black church and African-American Christianity.
And to let people know that African Americans have had a huge. History with Christianity and Christian was present in Africa before slavery, instead of wide in people's understanding of what it means to be Christians specifically with the global church and other situations. It has not always been easy.
Again, that America just has a hard history with racism. There is no American church without racism. And so it's an opportunity for all of that. So rock to come higher. I think people sometimes can feel attacked by that conversation or just tired of it. But it's a beautiful story of people who have overcome in such a way that they want everyone to thrive, which I think links to who we're called to be as image bearers and people that are walking out the cultural mandate we see in Genesis one.
And so. Sometimes it's good. Sometimes it's hard, but this is what the Lord has called me to. And so, you know, I think when you ask, what can you do? One prayer is always wonderful [00:15:00] too. It's opened up the door for other people. And so as you think about who you're inviting on your podcast or whose resources that you are recommending, sometimes you have to dig a little bit.
The final resource written by a person of color, but that deep dive is worth it because we need to diversify the voices that we're learning from. Just because it's easily accessible, doesn't mean it's the best. And that we would do the work to find people who love the Lord, but have had different backgrounds than we do.
So I'm excited and thankful for what God is doing and has provided through the church. And again, through people who look like me, don't look like me. And things are changing. And so more women are being given an opportunity more African-American women, it's a slow go, but I am happy to talk really loud so that more people can be invited into the room into the table.
Tony: That's good. That's really good. And I, you know, it's such a weird conversation to bring up because you want to be, I, you know, I want to be honest and authentic about the reality of the [00:16:00] things and I don't want it to ever feel like. I mean, you've got a really good resource here and you know, it doesn't feel like that should be tied to anything else other than it's a really good resource and you're a great theologian and you're putting great content out there, but it's also like, I can't help, but notice, you know, I've got 10 books here on my desk from publisher.
And you're the only African-American female. Yeah, damn. That's weird to me too. I, I just wrestle with that tension so much.
Elizabeth: I mean, it's the places of influence that we have that we say we want you to bring other voices to the table. And so we're talking to publishers and we're talking to a lot of the big networks or communities of Christians that we go to for resources.
Like we want to hear different voices. And as we in the church sometimes have to speak up because it's easier to bring in somebody, you know, or somebody that you're comfortable with, but the work to find a different place, it's worth it because there's Christians who look like me, who deserve to hear from someone who looks like them.
Tony: And then. [00:17:00] So this latest resource embrace your life. You know, it's, it's kind of a, a different book, cause it's, it's, it's written in a very fun way. Right? You used the word friend multiple times throughout there. It's it's your life. It's like we're conversating right here today. And yet it's also a book about some very serious stuff, right?
Like, I mean, you talk about, and there's all stuff I want to get into lament and all these different parts of the journey. How did you feel like this was the time. To write a book about, about this kind of what some would consider a heavy topic
Elizabeth: ministry has provided me with lots of different opportunities and one of them is having plenty of people who sat in the chairs in my office who have problems that are not easy to fix.
And. As a single woman. I always, I talk about singleness in the book. The book is not about singleness, but we just have a a life season that I think is easy for people to understand in terms of what I'm talking about in the book, but it's that the easy [00:18:00] answers aren't the best ones. And so how do I quit people to handle the things in their life that are hard to hear?
Where the seasons of suffering or longing don't quickly get resolved or change. And that we can not be stuck. I think I would see two different types of people. One group who would really thrive. Like no matter what they were going through another group, we just get really stuck, like stuck for years.
And so, you know, I think the Lord just, he bubbles it up inside of you. It's been a message that has been growing in the Lord has been working in my life probably for a decade. And so I was like, okay, now's the time I'm sitting here. It's I'm inside. My apartment is pandemic. I don't have anything else to do.
Let's write this book and let's help people navigate a season. Nobody wants to be what we're doing right now. So maybe what the Lord's given me, we can help people in what we're walking through in this current pandemic season, but it was, I want to help people and I want to be a voice that helps them walk through the hard things with a deep truth, not the sugary sweets.
Tony: You [00:19:00] dedicated the book to, to it seems like very special women in your life, your, your Nana and your no, no. Am I saying that right? Nana. Nana. Okay. Got it. I'm curious. What, what made you think of them as you wrote
Elizabeth: this book that, well, my, my Nana she wrote books for an entire life. She taught women's Bible study for about 30 years and she read a whole series of children's books about the African-American presence in the Bible, the African presence in the Bible, and she was never able to get public.
And so stories of her and my dad walking around to different bookstores and then just not picking up her book. And she never like never stopped writing up until when she, before she passed. She passed because of cancer. I mean, months before, before things got, just got really bad and she was just really sick.
She was still writing and still writing books and I'd be there with her and try to put activities in the back of the book. And so my grandmother to me had a fight in her that no matter what she never gave up on her dream. And my dad is currently working on publishing our books, which is a [00:20:00] really fun process to see him do that his mother would be really.
And so she's the first one. Cause I feel like I get to do what she would have loved to do. And so extend that legacy. And then the next one is just a friend who has been carrying some really heavy life stuff. And so I had lots of conversations with her about this book and I was like, look, whenever I write not I've gotta be able to co-sign off on because she's, don't tell me, okay, Liz, that sounds great, but that's now that's not the real deal.
So to me, it's a person who's been fighting for a long time just to live and to be. Alongside what she's caring. And I wanted to be able to just honor her story and honor the inspiration I received from her. As I was writing the
Tony: book, Hey guys, just pausing this conversation with Liz to let you know about an exciting new opportunity.
That's right in my ministry here at spirit in truth, we are putting together what we're calling a business leaders. Once a month for four hours, we're going to gather like-minded leaders to walk in the faith. [00:21:00] And it is going to be an opportunity to grow spiritually and physically. And I know you're going to want to you take part of it.
So do me a favor, check guests out spirit and truth.life. Underneath resources, the business leaders cohort it's there. You'll find it on. If you're interested or you want to get connected, let's do it. So be sure to let me know if you've got questions or if you want to get connected. And I love to do this with you guys.
Now let's continue our conversation with. What was her feedback when she got to read it, I'm assuming she got to read it. She got
Elizabeth: to read it. And so she had good feedback. One of the illustrations in the book I tell you to everybody's name. But one of the illustrations is about her. And so I was like, I've sent it to her before I sent it off to the publisher.
I was like, to you, like, this is this, is this a good representation of who you are? And she's like, yeah, you didn't get this.
Tony: That's so good. I do you have a lot of people in your life like that older women who are speaking in what, what do you do to [00:22:00] intentionally nurture those relationships? Cause I just
Elizabeth: don't think it's easy.
I think, again, it goes back to that you're just hungry for community. And so. That was just wisdom. My parents gave me as a kid is to just find yourself around people who are older than you and older in the faith, because sometimes they can be your age, but they're just really deep and wisdom and just be at the feet, you know?
So you just show up. And so I will say, Hey, how you doing? Can we hang out? Can we have coffee? Can I show up to your house and sit on your couch and just learn from you? And so that is a routine thing that I will do to initiate. To spend time with people and it doesn't have to be anything structured. It just is.
I just want to learn and do life with you, but I take the responsibility to find myself in those places. I don't wait for them to come and see about me.
Tony: Yeah. I think that's probably a really good word for a lot of people listening. You can't wait on someone to want to come and decide because they don't even know they got their own stuff and no one ever, I don't know what your experience, but I [00:23:00] never felt qualified to make disciples.
Just. Yup.
Elizabeth: Yup. Yup. Take one step I'm one step ahead. And that's how you feel. So if you want to jump, jump on for the ride, either feel free to do so.
Tony: Oh, you used one of my favorite words in the book somewhere that God has been speaking to me a lot about lately at this idea of lament. I'm wondering if you could talk a little about why.
Just from your experience, why so many Christians struggle with the idea of lament and maybe, maybe even give us a definition of what that is and how important it is for our relationship with God.
Elizabeth: Yeah. Lament is this structured process that a lot of different cultures use our It's a process that the nation of Israel would use to be able to deal with their pain.
Some people are more familiar with like boarding but even I talk about the life of Dashua. And so when Moses dies, Israel sets apart 30 days just to grieve the death of [00:24:00] Moses. And so it is this structured. Practice that you can do to, how do I deal with my pain and where do I bring it? And what we see in scripture is that you bring it before the Lord.
And so one of my favorite songs I love to point people to is Psalm 13. Many of the songs you read are songs of lament that the people in scripture were honest about their pain, and they brought it to the Lord somehow in the mystery of who God is, they made it to the right place at the end. I always like to say that this basically in the beginning of the stall, at the end of the song, there's a little space in between when they wrote it.
I don't think. Overcome things immediately, overnight all the time. But I, in our culture, I think we just are afraid of pain. We don't know what to do with it. It makes us feel awkward. We are constantly being discipled by the world. Discipleship is not something that is unique to Christianity. We just do it.
Right. And so the world will form us to believe that you have all these options to deal with your. You can eat, you can buy a bunch of stuff. You can do [00:25:00] a bunch of other different coping mechanisms are controlled. Just get busier. You see to fill your schedule so you don't have to think about it at all.
So we don't have to worry about it. And I think what we are seeing in our day and time is people realize the pain doesn't go away. It just pops up in different place. You think about the music we sing in church. And most of the music we saying are really upbeat worship songs. Like we don't say it. And the really sad moments for long, like the crescendo of the music is going to take us back up out of that kind of sad Interloop.
We're going to be there for a little bit, but then we'll go back to the phrase and it just is, what does it mean for us? You know, I think about the hymns I sang when I grew up in, I grew up in an old Baptist church and the hymns, I would say that would speak to the. But also speak to the truth of who God is and that's okay.
And so part of it is we haven't been taught limit. Part of it is we're in a society that teaches us to run from our pain. And part of it is it's like, well, if I come here, nothing's going to change anyway. And the truth is you cry out to God because you believe he can do something. [00:26:00] That's a lament is pregnant with hope.
And even though we can't fully see it. Something happens when we go to him in that posture. And I think it is a beautiful, spiritual discipline that the church sometimes has forgotten. But I believe we're in a season where it is appropriate for us to come back to it. Cause we got a lot of pain or trying to figure out what to do with
Tony: yeah.
That's a, that's a beautiful line. Lament is pregnant with help. I think that that's probably a good reminder if somebody was going to like dip their toe into the practice of lament and maybe their church isn't there yet, or they're just not in that, the church isn't in that season, but they are, how would you recommend someone gets started on dealing with pain and that, I mean, certainly there's enough pain to go around.
Right? Like there's how, how do we get started on that journey
Elizabeth: to get people. One, if you can do this in a journal. So if you like to journal, it's a great exercise to do it. [00:27:00] That way you can just inferior to the ward. Again, spend some time solitude, just get away you in the Lord and tell him, so tell the Lord what's going on.
And I encourage people. Be as honest as you want to be, you don't have to use fancy words. Your words don't have to be the void of emotion. Because if you're frustrated, tell God you're frustrated. If you're angry, tell him your anger dragging with him because you feel like he hasn't made good on what you feel like he's promised you tell him what's going on.
Be as honest as you can be, and then ask the Lord for what you need. Do you need provision? Do you need comfort? Do you need him to deliver you from something out of a really hard situation? Do you just need just the extra grace to make it through whatever you need, ask him for it. And at the very end.
Remind yourself of what's true about God and it's he does, David does this in Psalm 13. And I think it's maybe a few verses and each section is like two, two or three verses of that. Tell him, [00:28:00] ask him, and then trust him, like, Lord, I'm gonna trust you. I'm gonna trust you that you are who you say you are.
And so when we read through scripture, part of the reason we study so we can know who God is. So in the moments we need to remind ourselves, God, I believe yourself. And you created the entire. Then you have the power to do anything. And so you have the power to show up in my situation. God, I know you're faithful.
You promise salvation in Genesis and you came through with Jesus. And if you can be faithful to fulfill my promise for eternity, I think you can fix the small stuff now. So we ask him, tell him what's going on, ask him to help us, and then just verbally affirm our trust for God. And in that space, I believe.
Tony: That's beautiful. Yeah. I love that and I think it's very practical. You mentioned a little bit ago about Joshua, you kind of use Joshua as an example or almost a guide in a sense in the book. What, what made you choose Joshua? What about like, out of all the people in scripture? [00:29:00] Like, ah, let me just pick Joshua, right.
Elizabeth: I am a huge fan of just the story of the nation of Israel. I was just reading a lot to the old Testament. It just wonder if people try to live with the Lord and I think you get to see them. Just about what it means to be faithful in the mountain tops in the valleys. And to me, Joshua always stood out because of this moment of transition that happens at the very beginning.
And so, as you read scriptures is build up to the promises that God has made becoming fulfilled. You get to Joshua, the book of Joshua and they finally made it. They are at the Jordan river about to cross over into the land of Canaan and Moses dies. And so you have this Epic moment juxtapose next to this really sad moment at the man that took them out of Egypt, delivered help deliver them from slavery.
That Joshua would have worked alongside for 40 years. He's not there anymore. You know, as we read through scripture, sometimes we can, we can believe that that people we read about [00:30:00] just don't deal with normal stuff and Joshua is human. And that means that he had. And I want to say in his own way, he cared for Moses deeply.
And so how does he processes deep grief and yet launch out onto this huge mission that God has him too. And to see what God tells him, like it's like this moment of pause right before Joshua has a jump back into the action. If the first second verse God tells on Moses is dead, get up. And you're like, okay, that feels a little sensitive to me.
You got to do right. I mean, you see that they have time to mourn, but you see what God tells Joshua. And so that moment, what God tells him what he reminds him of. It was just so powerful to me. And so it's from there, it's like, how do I embrace what God has given me when the life isn't what I wanted to be?
And so that passage has always been an inspiration for that wrestle. I've had them.
Tony: What did you learn about Joshua as you did this deeper [00:31:00] study that you didn't know before? Was there any like aha moment or like, oh, that's weird or, oh, like, I mean, any good nuggets out there that you were like, I just didn't, I, you know, maybe you had studied him really in-depth before, but I'm sure putting all this on paper really caused you to look at them in a different way.
Elizabeth: This. First of all, he's this battle warrior, right? So like you read the book of Joshua is full of a lot of it. And I think what stood out to me about that is the light that God promised Joshua or gave him wasn't it. And so you have like, we, we want to believe that what's next is going to be like, it's just going to be easy and it's going to be calm.
And God's like, nah, I didn't say that. I just said, I'll be with you in it. And so I see this massive amounts of war that Joshua leads the people through and always what stands out to me, especially as you continue to read through judges and the rest of the history of Israel is [00:32:00] monarchy is Joshua space.
Yeah, like he was faithful to the end. And the decisions that he had to make in the midst of that faithfulness, I just love just learning about the leaders in scripture and what leadership requires, because that's a whole nother jungle, what it means to lead people and just seeing his like faithful.
When he, sometimes at night he was staying by himself. So it was a lot of like leadership. What does it mean to walk with the Lord in the midst of a season that Joshua's life wasn't easy and that's really just captured me in terms of the life that I believe God has called us to lead and how we respond to.
Tony: Now, one of the first things you do in a book is talk about this idea about embracing help. And then you talk about one of my other favorite things in the world, the holy spirit. And so I always tell people that I'm a charismatic, Orthodox
And I've I pastored in the Methodist church. So we're weird. But can you talk a little about why starting with help and, and the idea of the holy spirit and, and kind of your [00:33:00] experience, w why do we struggle so much letting the holy spirit help
Elizabeth: us? You know, Yeah, different people have different comfort levels with the holy spirit.
And so to know that you have to be quiet enough to be able to know that you have a problem. And I think before we can do this deep dive into how do we solve the things that we are dealing with. We gotta be able to admit something's wrong and I don't have the power to fix. Because if I did, I would have, and you wouldn't be reading my book.
it's that what I'm asking you to embark upon is a really difficult journey. And to at the very beginning, say you, this is not a self-help. This is not me saying you need to muster up your own strengths, you know, pull your bootstraps up. We're going to walk on the journey and says, you can't do this by yourself before we go anywhere.
Let me tell you that the person you need is the third person of the Trinity, the holy spirit. And [00:34:00] he can, when we list. And we submit and we hear the direction, it gives us and we follow that. He does a transformative work. I always say that the holy spirit, we can't do it without him, but he ain't going to force us to do nothing.
You know, like he's gracious and he's patient. He has a way of orchestrating situations so that we end up where we need to be, but that we would submit to the help. And to me. You know, I've been admin and ministry and you know, that recovery programs, the first step is that many of you have a problem.
And sometimes we can't do that because we can't see clearly and we need to let the holy spirit help us.
Tony: How important was it for you to add the practical self-examination the practice of self-examination. Could you put it the end of the chapters and it's it's I mean, this is not a self-help book, but it's not a leave yourself where you're at book
Elizabeth: either.
Right, right. To me, I want it to give first to get people like hooks to hang their hat on. You know, we could talk about all this [00:35:00] stuff about what it means to. To let the holy spirit help you, but then what can you do that? Okay. Elizabeth, I read your words. That's great. But what do I do? And so how do I sit in this place?
I love the words of the end of the Psalm 1 39, like search me God. And if there's anything that doesn't need to be there, anything that doesn't match up with the will you have for me, which is ultimately that we would look like. Then, can you kind of dig that out and leave me in the right way? And to me that this, this process, again, like steps, people can take practical things that can walk through to have time to think about themselves, but not think about themselves like navel gazing, but think about themselves in light of who God is and what he has for them.
And so it's invitation to come alongside, but the holy spirit is ready and waiting to do. And.
Tony: And again, I think it goes back to what you said earlier, right? It really is that this is one of those things that you [00:36:00] just really need to practice. Like it's not this isn't, you know, self-examination and all this stuff is not, I mean, I, I don't know about you, but it just has never come easy for me.
But the more I do it, the more attainable it feels. Yeah. So, as you know, as this book now kind of seeps into the wild and it gets out there, my audience loves the prey and I would be curious, what are some of the things that they can pray for as you know, as this book reaches the multitudes?
Elizabeth: What I, what I would ask him to pray for is that the book would get in the hands of the people who need.
And so whether it's somebody listens to a podcast, they see a social media, had they see something I post, or a friend recommends it, that they would get it in their hands and that the holy spirit would just do a work in their lives. Like I think my heart goes out for people who feel really hopeless and they feel stuck in they're caught [00:37:00] in that.
The trenches or valleys of despair and they just don't know how to get out. And that's who I tried to keep in the front of my mind as I was writing this book. And the reason I write a conversational, the reason I say friend a lot is because I want to let them know, Hey, you're not alone that your journey through this book with a friend and we're going to do this together and you can cry, but you're also going to rejoice in what God has for you.
And so my main prayer is. It would get in the right hands and that the Lord would really help people. And he helped them live and thrive with the life he's given them. And to help them see clearly and give them hope and to know how much he loves them and the big plans he has for the life and the goodness.
Even if the dentist doesn't include the good that they might desire. So that would be my main, biggest prayer that if your folks could put before the Lord, that'd be amazing.
Tony: That was a whole sermon right there. Listen, you should probably rewind that and go listen to that again. Cause there were some, there's [00:38:00] some nuggets in there that are, are worth chewing on a little bit.
So, okay. I have one more question for you, but before I ask it I know that my audience is going to want to connect with you all over the interwebs. Where is the best place to find all things, Liz
Elizabeth: and all things less on my website, Elizabeth, what said that? Or if you love social media, I am on all major platforms minus tick-tock.
I can't do it. And it is at Ms. Jazzy, Liz, M I S S J a Z Y L I S.
Tony: Excellent. And again, I, I follow you on Instagram. I highly recommend that. And by the way, you're putting out reels, that's basically ticked off.
Elizabeth: I appreciate I'm trying. I'm trying.
Tony: Okay. Last question. I always love to ask people. It's an advice question. I'm going to ask you to give yourself one piece of advice, except I get to take you back to a very specific time in your life. So the day [00:39:00] after you graduated seminary, you went to Dallas, theological seminary. If you could go back and talk to that younger version of Liz and sit down right in front of her and put your hands on her face and say, all right, listen, what's the one thing you're going to tell her.
Elizabeth: It's got to get hard,
but trust the Lord for who he says. I would tell them, I say you you've gotten a talker. What advice? Well, one thing I would give myself that God is with you and act like it like be strong, be strong. That's what I would say without going into a whole nother sermon. I
Tony: like it. Listen, we're here for the servant and I would probably, yeah, that's great.
That's wonderful. That's wonderful. Thank you so much for being so generous with your time today and for being putting your heart and soul into this work and for what you do for the community, that kingdom. And I just really appreciate it.
Elizabeth: Thank you, Tony. It's been a [00:40:00] joy to be here today.
Tony: Man. What's such good dialogue.
So thankful for her heart for disciple-making. Deep dive into pain. I know you guys are to do me a favor, follow her on the interwebs, check her out, get connected, pick up a copy of your book. Embrace your life. Such good stuff. As always guys, I'm thankful for you. And remember, if you want to follow Jesus, you must be willing to move.
