#134: Cindy Beall: Healing Your Marriage When Trust is Broken
Ten years ago Cindy Beall opened up about her marriage and the restoration project that needed to take place. This year, they've refreshed this classic writing to make it accessible for 2021. In our conversation, we talk about YouVersion Bible App, forgiveness, restoration, and hearing God's voice.
This is a vulnerable and honest conversation you need to hear!
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EP. 134
Tony: [00:00:00] Hey everybody. Welcome back to the reclamation podcast, where our goal is to help you reclaim good practices for faith and life. I'm Tony. And today is episode 1 34 of the podcast where I sit down with wife, mother writer and pastor Cindy Beale. Cindy writes all about her marriage and how it could have.
Things apart instead in her latest resource healing, your marriage, when trust is broken, she talks all about how to restore. Wholeness. Talk about forgiveness restoration, all of this just in time for the holiday season. I know that sounds a little cheeky, but the reality is many of us this holiday season are going through some super difficult times and Cindy's wides words are important for all of us.
So now, without any further ado, here's my conversation. With Cindy Beale, everybody. Welcome back [00:01:00] to the podcast. I'm excited today to have a spiritual director, author and speaker Cindy Beale with us. Cindy, thank you so much for joining me this morning,
Cindy: Tony. Thanks for having me. I'm so excited to be here.
Tony: So I wanted to start because you are on the team of one of my most favorite apps in an app that we talk about on this podcast all the time, because it's changed my life, the YouVersion Bible app. Could you tell us a little about what you do for you Virgin and how you got there?
Cindy: Yeah. So just in case people don't know I've been a part of life church for 20 years and we we started the Bible app in 2007.
So you know, been on the, just serving with my husband all these years. And then back last fall, about a year ago, this time there was a job opening for this spiritual support. For the YouVersion Bible app. And so, you know, I connected with the leader and just said, what do you think? And so we kind of went through the process I interviewed and I got hired.
So I've been on the team for [00:02:00] about 10 months as a, at the time of recording this episode. And so what a spiritual support leader is, you know, It's an app, obviously there's going to be technical things, go on. People are going to write in and go, Hey, I can't get in. My password's not working. You know? So all things like that.
And so what we were finding, so that team that supports people with some struggles there is our product support team. And what we're finding is people were writing into this team with spiritual needs, maybe prayer requests and just. We realized that the YouVersion community as a whole around the world while a lot of us may have great churches nearby and great community, some may not.
And so we just decided let's create a special support team. So currently as we're building, so like, this is grassroots, like it is we're on the spiritual support is the very beginning this year. Like anything new? Yeah. Like with anything new it's it can be messy, right. Because you're like, oh, I forgot to do that.
Let me run back here and do that. [00:03:00] But we, we, we have people who could reach out for prayer. And so I have a volunteer team of people around the world who are a ministry praying for people, responding to people. And so yeah, it's, it's fun. It's exciting to where it's good to see where it's going to go one day.
Yeah, that's kind of what.
Tony: Well, I, I know that on, in our community, the reclamation community, we have a ton of people who love to pray if they wanted to volunteer. Is there any requirements, what are they, who do they, how do they get in touch with you to, to, to make it happen?
Cindy: Yeah. You just go to youversion.com/volunteers and start the journey and yeah, you only wreck up requirements for praying.
Is you like, you probably want to pray, like you probably enjoy praying. I mean, that's really it. So. You can on the, actually we would just like that, like it very much. So if you did that, the other part of it is we actually have people who [00:04:00] respond to people when they write in requests. And so that's a little bit more thorough.
You still don't have to have like crazy training because we're not like providing theological answers to questions necessarily. We're staying in our lane. We're providing encouragement and resources and prayer and just, just. The thing we've seen the most, Tony is people just want to feel seen and heard.
And so when they get a response from someone who's prayed for them and who is just encouraging them, it's, it's a powerful thing. So have them go to youversion.com/volunteers and begin that journey. And we'd love it. That'd be awesome.
Tony: You and your husband have been in the local church as pastors that.
And in Oklahoma city for a number of years, and then you made this transition. I think a lot of people are making transitions in 2021. I've heard, I've heard some people call it the year of the great transition or the great resignation. I'm curious, [00:05:00] what have you learned about yourself and about God in the midst of all of this movement in your life?
Cindy: Well, partly it, part of it is that last year in 2020, I turned 50 and I didn't really, you know, it was nobody, there was no parties, you know? So like you try to have a get together and then it's like, Sure what hatred in everybody. Cause that was, you know, pre vaccine. So but anyway, I, I just remember thinking I want to do something different when I'm 50, I want to do something more.
Our youngest son is about to graduate high school and next may. And so I just thought I'm ready for that new season. I just didn't know. It would look like this. So for me, you know, I think a lot of people might think empty-nesters, I'm now a grandmother. My oldest son had a baby. He and his wife had a baby this year.
So like, you might think, okay, city's ready to kind of coast on, into retirement. And Chris and I [00:06:00] just had a conversation like, you know, we want to lay it all out on the table as much as we can, before we leave this earth we work real hard and that we rest will real hard. So we just. Took this step. And so it has brought a lot more busy-ness to our schedules.
But at the same time, we've learned over the years how to Sabbath. Well, and so yeah, so that was kind of the thought process for me. Like life is uncertain. I don't know how many more days I have and I'd like to. To give my best to the kingdom of God, to the best of my ability until the day what he says.
Okay. It's time to shift again. So I just kind of walk around with open hands, like, okay, God, this is what I'm doing now to fulfill what you've called me to do. And. Yeah. So that's kind of my thought process this year.
Tony: Well, and I, I love that posture. If you're listening that she actually opened up her hands towards heaven and I, I love that idea.
I, I'm curious, one of the questions I love to ask people is [00:07:00] how you hear from God, because I, I would assume based off of your faith walk that this is, this was a step of faith for you. Was that an active obedience? How do you know that it was God's voice and not just a midlife crisis?
Cindy: I love that.
That's so funny. Well I think that there's probably, I heard a pastor say some time ago that, you know, he was about 67% sure God was leading him. And I think that's funny because you know, sometimes we think, oh, this has got, or is, or is this God, or is this my thoughts or is this my dreams or whatever?
And so for me, I. I have the sprays in my mind take the next step. And so I'm moving forward. I kind of visualize, let's say I'm just so like take this job. For example, I'm visualizing taking the job and not taking the, or applying for the job, not applying and where do I sense the most peace and it's just a constant communication.
Like, okay, God, [00:08:00] I don't really feel a hesitancy here. I'm going to take the next step. And so I took the next step. I applied, got an interview. Okay. I still feel a level of peace. I'm going to take another step. And so as I just kept walking forward, God just kept opening the doors. So here's, what's funny is it was a significant test of my faith.
Like I was nervous through the whole thing, but I still have this piece, like partly was like, am I going to make a mistake? And I just think. Eventually now looking back, I'm just like, you know, God saw my heart the whole time. Like there was nothing that wasn't was hidden from him and he just kept guiding me.
And the moment I got off of the job, the peace of God just flooded me and I haven't questioned it since. And so I think it was a test. Just to test for me and the God was saying, Hey, you don't have to feel great about every single little bitty thing along the way, because I'm developing your faith.
And so I don't know that [00:09:00] that's the way it's going to be for everyone, but that's how it kind of happened for me. But you know, spending time in God's word is the best way to get to know God. And I've always said the more you spend time with him, the more you learn, how he is, the more you learn about his character, the more you learn.
What, how he's speaking and where he's leading. And so then you can make better decisions. So yeah.
Tony: W one more question. You mentioned spending time in the word, I'm sure you get email requests all the time. Is there a plan on the YouVersion Bible app that you recommend for someone who is trying to get started on this journey?
Is there is there like a, go-to like, this is the one that I recommend everybody start with, or if you're just really starting out in that scriptural.
Cindy: Yeah. So we have a section in the app that has different plans by categories. And one of them is like new to faith or something like that. So if you go on the home screen of your app, you'll see, you can scroll down and [00:10:00] see that.
There's another section in there called YouVersion devotion or U version of originals. And so those are written by a lot of people. Through the years who had just contracted with you version some people on the team, some people are contractors. And so there's a few in there. Like one of them is how to start reading your Bible.
And then there's, there's a few more about life in Christ. And so lots of those in there would be great jumping off places for people who are new. Maybe. That maybe they've known about God or maybe they are a new believer, but those are some great plants I think would help.
Tony: That's awesome. And you know, it's, it's interesting in this season, w you know, we talk about new things, but kind of what you're doing is kind of a refresh of an old thing.
And in this year, you're, rereleasing your writing. Healing your marriage when trust is broken and how to get to forgiveness and restoration. It's I I'm really intrigued by this topic in this season, because I think a lot of us in COVID [00:11:00] have realized that all this time with our spouse has really kind of put some pressure on us and in a weird way.
So what moved you to, to rerelease this book in this season?
Cindy: Well, my publisher over the years. So this book was first released in 2011, so 10 years ago. And so my over the years by publisher would come at com you know, the acquisitions editor would say, Hey, are you ready? You want to do another book?
And I was like, well, you know, I wrote another one in 2016 and I just thought, ah, I don't know, what else am I supposed to say? I mean, I've kind of like, You know, Lisa TerKeurst has said it all. Like she is such a great author. Just go read one of her books because I promise you, I think what she's thinking, you know, I just, I love her and I appreciate what she has to say.
So, but for me, as I was thinking, it was two years ago and I, I kind of had this idea of. 10-year anniversary of the book. Our journey has been 20 years long. And so I pitched it to my [00:12:00] publisher. Like what if we do our refresh? I add some extra content I put on a new chapter, we get a new cover and they loved it.
And so that's kind of why that's part of the story. And the other part is like our story, even though we are so great and we have healed so well, and God has done such a work in us, we're still, it's still a story that God is telling us. 'cause some people are just hearing it for the first time. And so there's something about seeing someone who is still walking out a healing journey 10 years later, 20 years later.
And so we just wanted to speak to that and encourage couples. In fact, the final chapter of the book is actually meant for any. Like just anyone that you don't have to have gone through betrayal inspect. I give 20 insights in 20 years. And so hopefully that could be kind of a blessing to all married couples out there.
Tony: So what does healing today and your marriage look [00:13:00] like? You know, now decades kind of removed from all of that. W what does it look? I mean, how does that, how does that play out on a random Wednesday?
Cindy: Well, it's, it has been a while. I mean, sometimes I think back to that day in February 2002, and I can't believe, like, I can't really remember the pain. Like I know that sounds funny, but like, I remember that day was painful, but like nothing strikes my heart. Any more because God has brought so much healing.
And for the people who are listening, who don't know, you know, my husband sat me down that day and confessed to me about faithfulness and everything in my world shattered. And he resigned from life church. We were at life church for like six weeks, and then he resigned. 18 months later, he came back on the team through once we've been through a significant healing journey.
And so we just continued to heal along the way. The biggest [00:14:00] way that we have healed is actually second Corinthians one, three through four speaks to it that when we when God comforts us in our trouble, we can then comfort. With the comfort we've received from God. And so every single time, Chris and I have helped a couple or he has helped a guy and I've helped a woman.
God has continued to heal us. And so every time I talk about my story, God continues to heal us like today. I don't think I can be healed anymore, but God will do a work in me, even my conversation with you. And so there's just power in. How we've just been able to minister out of a place that was once great pain and God has just redeemed that.
So pain today on a Wednesday or the healing, I guess you asked it's just continuing to live out what God has done. So when I go to work today, or Chris goes to work, people don't really think of us as like, oh, that's the couple that made it through [00:15:00] infidelity. But sometimes when that does cross their mind, I think it encourages them that that vulnerability is okay.
And that reaching out for help is okay, so that we can grow. And honestly, second chances are possible. And third chances and fourth, you know,
Tony: I'm curious, what was the conversation like about rereleasing this with Chris? Because as a, as a guy, I kind of identify with your husband the most in this story.
And, and I keep thinking to myself, I don't know if I want my biggest sin in the world, you know? You know, re-released into the world or refreshed or, you know, like any of those, I mean, like, like I don't know. I have a lot of I found myself having a lot of feelings about it for Chris.
Cindy: Sure. Yeah, for sure.
Well, let me take you back to 2002. When he confessed to me he was a broken repentant [00:16:00] man. And he, all of his acting out sexually infidelity was stemmed, stemmed from a pornography addiction. So he didn't have an inappropriate relationship with a friend. He didn't meet, you know, he wasn't, it wasn't like that.
It was. I've started looking at pictures and then I started chatting and then I started this. And so it's just a progression of sin, but, you know, we know that it just keeps spiraling if we don't take it before God and ask for healing and and freedom. So he was so wanting freedom in his life. He did at care, who knew, like he was all out, like whatever we can do to help me from this monster that has, that I have allowed.
I run my life, please. I want freedom. So when you think about it, that way, he was not embarrassed. Like it was humiliating and it was hard and it was humbling, but his desire for freedom, even trumped has [00:17:00] desired for us to stay married. And that's what had to happen because he wanted us to stay married, but he had to have freedom.
There's just no way he wanted to live the rest of his life in bondage. So. When I, when we talked about, you know, but I was looking for resources during that time for help. And there weren't hardly any that's when I, this one of the times in my life where I knew that God said you're writing a book and I was.
Oh, okay. I, I failed ninth grade writing in high school. The achievement test. So are you sure you want me to be the one? And I, I grew in college and I got better and I, I had already started writing a lot by this time, but, but still like writing a book is a big endeavor. So so anyway, when I said, I think God's called me to write a book and he was like, let's go.
And so I remember the day it was 2010. I had the contract in my hand, I was about to sign it and send it back to my publisher [00:18:00] harvest house. And I said, are you sure? Like, this is your life on display. It's mine too, but like, it's your life? And he said, absolutely never doubts it. And so so he still has that posture now.
And what's funny is a week and a half ago at our church at lecture. He he preached and he told her. To however many hundreds of thousands of people who listen at whether at a campus or church online. So yeah, so he's pretty open with it.
Tony: I love that. And I think, I think you hit the nail on the head with that word repentance, right?
When we're, we're willing to, to not keep it a secret anymore, it doesn't have any power over us. And I think that that's closing that gap, that gap caused by, you know, All the things in our life that pull us away from God. You know, one of the things that you talk about in this book is, is forgiveness and restoration.
How do you if you're in a relationship where you've been deceived, you've been maybe it's infidelity, maybe [00:19:00] it's something else, but how do you begin to rebuild trust in this, in the brokenness of a relationship? Because from all accounts you guys have done so very successfully at this.
Cindy: Yeah. So that was honestly, that was harder than forgiving him. For me, I saw the brokenness, I saw the repentance, I saw this wounded man who just was ashamed of what he'd done to the, the name of Christ to his family and friends. And so I, it was easier to forgive him because I knew that he didn't want to do this.
He still made terrible choices, but this wasn't what he wanted to do. So. You know, I had to continue to forgive him, but overall over time, that was seemingly easier to do than trust. And so I remember talking to God, I'm like, God. So there was about a three week period after he confessed that I was trying to [00:20:00] decide, what am I going to do?
Like, am I going to stay? Am I going to go, am I going to stay? Am I going to go? Cause I loved him obviously that did not go away. That's a hard hurt. Those are hard hurdles to over jump over. And so I just remember saying, God, how am I going to, how are we going to do this? I mean, am I going to be as police officer for the rest of his life and check out, I don't want to be as mother.
So. I've got just kept saying, do you trust me? And I'm like, oh God, of course I trust you, but, but this is a big one. God, come on. And so finally, a few weeks in, I just, God just said, do you trust me? And, and I finally relinquished and said, I do trust you. And in that moment, I just was like, okay, I'm supposed to stay.
And what. What happened in the, you know, in the subsequent weeks and months and even years is I just trusted God on this journey as Chris was rebuilding trust. So the way he started rebuilding trust was nothing was off limits to [00:21:00] me. You know, we didn't, it was 2002, so I don't even think I had a cell phone then.
He did. And so, but it was just, it was just navigating. Well, there were no apps to like track you, you know? So it was different back then. And so he would hate, but he was very communicative with me about where he was going. Granted. He was only working at a lumber warehouse for about 18 months. So it wasn't like he was going to different campuses at the time after he resigned.
But, you know, he just was answered any question. He said, Hey, I'm here. He would, once he did join the team again there would be a couple of nights where he'd be, you know, at the church doing, setting up for something and he would actually have another staff member call me from his phone. And let me know that he was actually there.
So like, Chris will tell you and I'll tell you too. But like he always tried to be a step ahead of me, of where the enemy would try to attack me. So Chris was constantly, [00:22:00] yeah, he was constantly going, okay, she's going to possibly struggle here. I'm going to be ahead of that. And yeah. So. That's how trust was built and, you know, people ask me, do you trust him today?
You know what? I trust the holy Spirit's work in him. He is still a man. Sometimes his actions aren't, you know, and my actions as humans, we're not the best, but I do know that he knows. Wants to hurt me again. He does not intend to hurt me again. And he is fighting tooth and nail, if you will, to be free from this monster that once held him in bondage.
And so we're very open. We're very honest. And I trust I trust his heart and then God just. Fills in all the gaps in there. But yeah. So yeah, I always say I trust him again, but I still trust God more than anyone. I still know human beings, you know, like human beings will let us down. It says, Proverbs, Preston, the [00:23:00] Lord with all your heart, didn't say trust in your mom with all you men.
I trust in the Lord with all my heart. And then God allows me to trust people underneath.
Tony: Hmm, that's a I think that's a great way to look at it. Hey guys, just pausing this conversation with Cindy, to tell you a little bit about spirit and truth. As you know, the reclamation podcast is part of the spirit and truth podcast network, which is 100% listener supported.
What does that mean? It means that all of the content that we're able to put out on the podcast network is because of listeners like you. So if you feel compelled to give, check us out, learn more information@spiritandtruth.life slash. Now, back to my conversation with pastor Cindy. I'm curious how has your and Chris's prayer life changed in the midst or kind of in the I'm going to say in the aftermath of all of this and how, how was it before?
I mean, what, you know, H how does, how does your covenant with God play out before and after this [00:24:00] kind of restoration?
Cindy: So when he was acting out, it was about a two and a half year period. So by the time he confessed, we'd been married nine years. And so two and a half years prior to that confession is when all of this was happening. So the whole nine years wasn't miserable. I mean, he was still in bondage and. I mean back when he started struggling with pornography, it was a magazine, you know, he was a kid.
So like, that's how that started. So, and then as the internet, once the internet of came into view, that's when the gas was put on the fire. And so so during that two and a half year period, I felt utterly alone. We were at a church where Chris was like the second. So we had a senior pastor and then my husband, who am I going to talk to?
That? My marriage seems really bad, but I have no idea why, you know, I knew something was wrong. But there was no way I knew what it was. I just [00:25:00] thought, well, I guess married couples, just go through a spell. We had had a son. And so maybe this is what bringing a kid into the family is like, I don't know what it was.
So yeah, so it was just, it was a hard, hard season. So all I knew to do was run to God like that. Fate, my journey and my intimacy with the father. Just what. Amazing during that time, because he was all I had. So you take me into this journey of confession and all the things that we have to deal with.
And then Chris coming to a place where he was broken, like the spiritual depth in those early days, as wretched as it could, as it was and our pain man, I'm telling you. It was deep, a deep connection with God and then which ultimately was with each other. So yeah, just our prayer life, you know, we prayed a lot.
We cried a lot and over the years, sometimes our prayer life together is great [00:26:00] and sometimes it's not, and which is just the nature of being married, that, that doesn't really have anything to do with what we've been through. You know, that's the thing I do talk about in my book that, you know, a lot of times.
Couples who've been through a betrayal like this. Maybe not infidelity, but some other kind of betrayal. They, they go forward in their marriage and they assume that five years later when they have something go on. Oh, well it's because this happened actually it's it could have been. But it's probably just cause you're married and you're people who are married.
I mean, right. I mean, I love my husband, but he's still a man and I'm still a woman. And sometimes I'm like, that is craziness. It's not because you cheated on me 20 years ago. This is just because you're a man and I'm a woman and we're not agreeing, you know? So yeah.
Tony: Well, one of the things that we love to say around here is that if you're not dedicated to your disciplines, you'll be destroyed by your distraction.
[00:27:00] And so that's powerful. Thank you. I'm curious if you guys recommend or have any disciplines in your marriage that help keep you guys on point together. Like, and I, and I know that there are a lot of couples in this season who are, who, who feel distant or, you know, have kind of started that journey to disconnectedness.
What disciplines do you recommend?
Cindy: Basically, there's two words that I always tell people it's being intentional and be and making investments. That is why marriages, in my opinion, fall is because we start being intentional. And we stop investing in each other. And so if you do a little bit of that every day it really does work.
It's pretty powerful. You do one nice thing a day for your spouse. You send one sweet text, you make a phone call, you, you do something that they, you knew they had, they were coming home for work. And then. We're going to have to do it and you do it for him. [00:28:00] I mean, it's just thinking of your spouse more than you think of yourself is a pretty powerful discipline in my opinion.
But I would say I mentioned it earlier, Chris and I have this kind of rule, whatever you want to call it guideline, but nothing is off limits from each other. So. Let's just take devices. He can pick up my phone, my laptop. I can do the same for him at any time. And we can get on there. We don't do that very often, but like if he picks up my phone to check a tech, just to sometimes, you know, when I have technical difficulties that he's like, all right, let me fix it like that.
Doesn't make me. At all, and it doesn't make him nervous at all. We have nothing to hide from each other. So that's always a good guideline. If you pick up your spouses, if you, if you're just honestly going, oh, I just need to check this picture on or whatever, just at that person kinda cringes. And you're like, oh, you know, let's just, that could be a little red [00:29:00] flag there, but I don't know.
I know that some people don't agree with that and that's okay. That's just our story. That's where we've been. And that's kind of how we live, but we also, I feel that I've had a very marriage centered marriage, if that makes sense or family. So like we're husband and wife first. We have three sons.
We adore them. We have a daughter-in-law, we have a grandchild and we love our family, but growing up, it was always. Like, we're going to have the first conversation at the end of the day, you know, to the, as much as we can. Cause sometimes two-year-olds, don't agree with all those things that you have. But for the most part, we were investing in our marriage and we're not going to be kid centered.
We're going to be obviously Christ centered and then the marriage and then children. And it just seems to have been a really good flow for us. And I feel like our kids, they are so happy that their mom and dad are crazy about it.
Tony: Yeah. One of the things that I see a lot in [00:30:00] today's community, especially in suburban Ohio, where we live is it's really easy to put, make your kids an idol, you know, and, and really kind of follow them around and make sure that they're all taken care of.
And it's obvious that you guys love your kids, especially. You know, that grandbaby, but I'm curious, how do you raise boys? How do you raise boys in light of everything that happened? What, what do you tell them about this? Or how did you talk to them about this and how do you, or did you put up any preventive measures in your own life?
I mean, like, obviously the Internet's real and dangerous and also you're not going to, you're not going to not use the.
Cindy: Right. Exactly. Yeah, because we're so open and honest with our story. Everything's just kind of out there. We when they were younger. So Noah, my oldest was almost three when this, when the Chris's when he [00:31:00] confessed everything.
So he didn't really understand. He just saw mommy crying a lot. I remember one day he said, why are you, so why are you so sad for mommy? And so over the years we would explain things to them in an age appropriate ways, you know? So there were definitely conversations that we had to have just as we were sharing our story, but it's, it's kind of like.
They weren't teenagers when this happened. So they were like, my youngest doesn't even know life without this. Does that really? I guess Noah doesn't either because he was just three. So just being wise and being able to share when mom and dad made mistakes and how God has come in. So it's a beautiful picture of God's grace and explaining that to them.
And then just allowing them to see God do what he does, which has redeemed lives. And so as far as like protection and, you know, making sure that their their eyes are protected and their hearts are protected, you know, at the end of the day, we can't want it for them, [00:32:00] but we can certainly have conversations.
And because my husband is not afraid to go and have those difficult, uncomfortable conversations with his sons, I mean, Blunt with them. And there's just nothing they can't talk to him about in, and I love that about him. So so they have a very open conversation all him with all with all of them.
And so yeah, we just, we did the best we could to prevent them with certain things on their phone. But you know, they're boys and. They find ways around because those kids are more tech savvy than we are. So but at the end of the day, I'm I have to trust God with his work in their lives and pry because my worry accomplishes nothing.
So.
Tony: I also always anytime I talked to a pastor, who's got kids that are older than mine. I always love to ask the question just for my own personal privilege. I have no idea if anyone gets [00:33:00] anything else out of this, but it's important to me. So any tips on raising pastor's kids to help them stay engaged in their relationship with them?
Cindy: Yes, I would say the biggest thing is don't let anyone, including yourselves, have your expect your kids to do something because of who their parents are. Case in point Noah was probably he's 22 now almost 23. He was probably. When this happened. And we were in the church lobby in my husband, was the campus pastor at the lobby or at the campus at that time.
And he was acting eight. You know, he was acting silly and goofy. And this woman, older woman, and she came up, she was probably in her fifties. So I would have been in my early thirties. And she said you shouldn't act like that. You're the pastor son. And before I could stop myself, [00:34:00] I looked at her and I said, no, he shouldn't do that because he's a child of God.
And I just was like, don't and then we walked away, but I, and she was like, oh, and I, you know, I probably should have maybe, I don't know, but I, I can't take it back now, but basically for me is we know. I, I can't remember a time. I'm sure that maybe there's a couple, but I never said, I can't believe you're doing that to your dad.
Like, I can't believe you're embarrassing your father because he's the whatever. And how would you, why would you act that way? I'm a published author. Like we just did it put the calling that God had called us to do. The pressure of it on them. Now they're part of our family. They know the calling, they know that this is what we do, but that was the biggest thing I would say.
And then as they began to wrestle with their faith and [00:35:00] make it their own You know, we had to let them. And so our oldest was he loved the church. He was there serving a lot and so he's really kind of developed his own faith. He plays in the worship band. So like, he's, he's really. Living it out outside of us.
In fact, last week, Chris and I did not tour campuses cause my husband leads campuses now. And so we typically might go visit and he was like, you guys go into visit this today. And I was like, no. And he was like, you guys are sinners. And so it was just kind of this moment where we just laughed and I was like, we so are, you know, but you know, it was just a crazy weekend for us.
And so we were like, no, we're not going to do that today. But it was funny to hear that. But our other two sons. You know, as they are wrestling with making their faith their own, we've had to let them. And so for us in our family we said, you know, we expect you to go to church on the weekends at some point.
So we have lots of services at life church to choose from. So really, I mean, there's tons of you don't have to, you can go [00:36:00] Saturday, you can go Sunday. So go to church that's that's, that's part of it. And then, you know, Some people might expect, you know, force their kids to read a Bible plan. And I mean, I work for you version, so why wouldn't I do that?
But at the end of the day, I'm praying, I'm asking God to meet them where they are so that they're taking their faith into their adulthood. And so I'm just trusting God with all of that in their lives. So that's what I would say. Don't. Just let them be your kids, not pastor John and pastor, whatever.
Don't let them, let them be your kids.
Tony: So that's good. I, I appreciate that. I know my wife appreciates that. She always appreciate when I ask those questions to people who are a little bit further along on the journey than us. And and so thank you for that. I was hoping kind of, as we get closer at the end of our time together today, that you might be able to speak to the couple that That's in the thick of, of brokenness right [00:37:00] now.
Maybe they're not sure where to turn to. Maybe they're, they're just getting started. I was wondering if you might be able to just, just speak a little hope over them or to maybe give them a little push in a direction, if you have a recommendation on on what healing looks like.
Cindy: Yeah. So I think back to those early days for me, so I'm thinking about the couple who may be.
It's fresh. Yeah. They're a couple of weeks into maybe some kind of discovery or something like that. And so I think about where I was, and the words were spoken to me by one of our leaders at live church. He said, Cindy, you don't have to decide the rest of your life today. And that brought me so much freedom because in a moment when I'm just speaking for me as a wife, I felt so betrayed and I was so ashamed and I felt so mad that [00:38:00] I had been made a fool in those early, you know, that was my initial response.
And I think there was this thought in my mind. Well, I know there was like, well, I can't let him, I can't waste any more days feeling this way. And so I wanted to know like, do I stay, do I go? So for me, I would say, It's natural for people to want to know what their next step is, but just don't think in the moment of your heated emote or heightened emotions that you have to decide everything in that moment.
And so at the end of the day, when I was like, okay, I can take some time. It didn't matter that it was three or four more weeks. I mean, nothing was really going to change in my life, whether I was with him or not. So. Take it, take it down, you know, calm down. So that's, that's what I would say to the couple.
And then I would also say, what are you willing to do to make your marriage work? The phrase in my book I often use is whatever it takes. And so I know [00:39:00] finances may not be easy for everyone, but there are definitely Tools that you can do use, there are counselors you can see, there are marriage intensive retreats.
You can be a part of there's a ministry down in Austin, Texas called affair recovery.com. Rick Reynolds and his team do an amazing job of helping people navigate. Through this is just speaking to, you know, marriage affairs. And then there's focus on the family does a lot of marriage intensives and they're more focused on like sexual intimacy or communication or different areas.
So it's not necessarily a covered. Who is in the pit of despair, they could be, but it's also just for the average company, our best friends went there one time just to, just to kind of fresh it up. And their marriages is healthy and strong. So it's fun to say people investing in their marriage, whether they're in a hard place or not.
So that's what I would say. What are you willing to invest in your marriage? To see it survive, whatever you're going [00:40:00] through and, and then make some sacrifices and find the right people around you who are going to champion you and champion your marriage. Because it is possible to overcome hardship.
I am living proof. I. I would never be able to live like in those early days, I thought, how will we ever survive this? And God has just done what he does and made all things new and brought so much joy and healing and hope to our marriage. And then we've been able to, I think be lights to those around us because we pushed through the hard to get to the other side.
Tony: Well, I mean, you certainly been the light for me today. I've really enjoyed it. I have one more question for you, but before I ask it, I do want to make sure that I know my listeners. I want to connect with you on the interwebs, where where's the best place to pick up this new refresh version of the book and to connect with your ministry.
Where's where's a good story.[00:41:00]
Cindy: You know, a lot of the booksellers online are selling a Christian book, but I think Amazon, I mean, that's just, that's probably the easiest place to go cause you probably get it the next day. I think it's odd. I think it's on audio as well. I'm not a hundred percent sure if that's been released yet, but Just connecting in that way.
I'm on Instagram at Cindy Beale. So, but I'm pretty boring on Instagram. I'm just going to be honest because I'm busy in my life is so full right now. I'm like, oh, I should probably post I forgot, but you know, that's just okay. Yeah. So connect in that. That's awesome.
Tony: Okay. Last question. I always love to ask people.
It's an advice question and I take you back to very specific time and you get to give yourself one piece of advice. And so I'm going to take you back to the day before your husband sat you down and told you he. He had broken trust in the marriage. If you could go back to that younger version of Cindy and sit down in front of yourself, what's the one piece of advice you'd tell yourself.[00:42:00]
Cindy: Wow. I remember that day, he was really somber new knowing. Now he was thinking, I've got to say, I can't live this way. I think, I would've just said, don't forget that God has been with you. Excuse me. Don't forget that God has been with you. He will never leave you. He will never forsake you. And even though difficult things happen he's still near you.
I don't know. I think that I would need that extra comfort knowing what I would be going into the next day. Probably. Amen. Yeah, that's off the top of my head, but I'll probably have a better answer in that. Five hours.
Tony: Well, you can always send it to me and I'll put it in the show notes.
Cindy: Awesome.
Tony: Cindy, thank you so much for your, your generosity of time and your vulnerability and for [00:43:00] you and Chris and for what you're doing to build the kingdom.
I truly, truly appreciate it. And and praying that the, a lot of couples can get this resource in their hands. So.
Cindy: Thank you so much. I've loved visiting with you this morning.
Tony: I told you guys what an incredible word from a pastor writer and mother who's been through so much in our life. I'm so thankful for the way that she talks about forgiveness and restoration and intimacy and how we can rebuild all of those things.
You know, by choosing to one day at a time, do me a favor, check out pastor Cindy's latest copy of healing, your marriage. When trust is broken father, where all the socials and let her know that you heard her here on the reclamation podcast. And Hey, don't forget to hit that subscribe button wherever you listen to podcasts and leave a rating or review on iTunes and be sure to share this episode with a friend.
Everything that you do to support us, goes back into the podcasts and helps continue to breathe life into this platform. I'm so [00:44:00] thankful for you, and I want to wish you and your family a very happy Thanksgiving. And remember, if you want to follow Jesus, you must be willing to move.
