#135: Podechesis Podcast: Why What We Believe Matters
In this fun and energetic dialogue Tony sits down with the hosts from the Podechesis Podcast to talk Advent, theology, and why it all matters.
Links:
EP. 135
Tony: [00:00:00] Hey everybody. Welcome back to the Reclamation Podcast, where our goals to help you reclaim good practices for faith and life. I'm Tony. And today is episode 1 35 of the podcast where I sit down with three amazing pastors, the potty cases, guys, from the potty cases, podcasts. Now what's potty cases. Well, it's a group of pastors.
Who are devoted to helping you? Develop your theology and why it matters. I love this dialogue. And in today's conversation, we jump into the topic of advent, why it matters, what we study, why it matters, and we share a whole lot of humor. These are three amazing voices from guys that you need to hear. And Hey, do me a favor.
If you liked the conversation, hit that subscribe button, wherever you listen to podcasts, leave us a rating review on iTunes. And maybe even [00:01:00] share this podcast with a friend, it goes a long way in spreading the word about what God is doing on this platform. Thank you so much. And now, without any further.
Here's my conversation with a potty key says podcast. Hey everybody. Welcome back to the podcast. I'm excited today to have three incredible individuals, pastors and podcasters. The guys from the podcast, this podcast, Jim Allen and Brett. Welcome guys. Thanks for being here.
Brett: What's up. What's up. What's up.
Jim: Hey Tony. Thanks for having us. And there's Brett. Hey, it's good to be with you.
Allen: Great to be with you guys.
Tony: So you guys have been podcasting now for a while and we're part of the same network, the spirit and truth network. And so I was wondering if we could start with probably the most controversial question I'm going to ask you today, what exactly.
Jim: Oh, what is a pot of cases? That is the nerdiest and most wonderful thing ever tell me right away.
Brett: So the potty cases, podcast, a potty cases is [00:02:00] we believe that the future of the church particularly in Westphalian world, particularly in the Methodist church as a whole the, the future of it is built upon.
Catechism there's catechism that needs to happen within that new Methodist movement. And we just came together looking at John Wesley's revision of the Westminster shorter catechism from the 15 hundreds. And it was just kind of, Hey, let's, let's do. But this catechism asking the questions, looking at the answers and then going in depth about what Christians believe and why it matters because we believe it matters what Christians believe.
Jim: Yeah. And, and of course, catechesis is a word we might not use very often anymore. And a lot of times, quite frankly, People would associate it with certain Christian movements, right. Or, or to be totally old school and not relevant anymore, but kind of keeps this as simply a method of passing on faith.
It refers to teaching about the faith [00:03:00] and typically, and Brett, you could correct me cause you're doing doctoral studies here, but typically a catechism might take the form of question and answer or a topic and exploration. And so, because we are the funniest dudes and we're all dads and love dad jokes catechesus plus podcast hotter.
Tony: See what you did there.
Allen: I was really shooting for product, but it didn't happen.
Jim: So that sounded, that sounded almost. I don't know a cult or
Allen: I think there's a reason why we didn't go with it.
Jim: But anyway, there was normally, no, this is what normally happens. We write down every idea, cross out Allen's ideas and pick the rest.
Brett: That's pretty much,
Allen: pretty much as a safe bet. That's a safe bet, but that conviction behind.
Jim: Is Christians believe things handed down to us. We give, we give, we breathe life into this generation of the [00:04:00] democracy of the dead, the tradition handed down, and we believe that it matters and we just want to help people love that.
Yeah. Yeah. I just think it's beautiful. Yeah.
Tony: Well, let me ask you this because I hear what you're saying and I definitely hear the passion in your voice. But I also think there's a lot of people listening who are going to church on a regular and who loved Jesus, but who don't really care about what John Wesley had to say about any of this.
So let me ask you the follow-up question to this and Jim, we'll start with you. Why does it matter? Why does it matter? Teach theologically in the local church.
Jim: Yeah, it really does because for example, I'll use the Bible study. I taught just last week in Colossians one with that beautiful little Christological ham Jesus is the image of the invisible God, et cetera, et cetera.
This stuff matters because one in the scriptures, you see everything that Paul teaches ethically. Kristen teaching, [00:05:00] but to just sit there and meditate on that passage, Christ is the image of the invisible God in him, all things hold together. And you just take a look at what is revealed to us and you fall deeper in love with Christ.
Now, the other thing is that whether we recognize it or not, how we live and what we do is based out of our mental frameworks, it just is. Let me give you an example. I can believe that my marriage is about my wife fulfilling my needs. And me being happy, or I can believe that my marriage is an image of Christ's love for the church.
And it is about our mutual holiness. Those are mental frameworks and they lead to two very different marriages. Hmm, you see, so what we believe matters. And so what we believe about God matters. And so for example, you use the word, God, that phrase from first, John God is love. Well, we need to flesh that out with the fullness of who God is, what his love means.[00:06:00]
And then we have, we could have varying understandings of what, what that phrase means is it all permissiveness is God's love specific enough to have some force and weight in a particular way. So it matters who God is, what we believe as Christians. And let's just say old stuff is still important, you know?
All right. That's my spiel.
Tony: Alan, anything to add to that?
Allen: Well, I would just say. As Wesleyans, you know, it's important to look back at what Wesley I would say the re this, this was part of the resources that Wesley gave to his preachers when he sent them out. And so I think it's highly important for us to go back and, and And look at what Wesley gave to his preachers.
Not for just us as preachers, but for the church as a whole. And as Jim, you know, so eloquently, eloquently said old stuff matters.
Tony: Y'all old stuff matters.
Jim: Y'all [00:07:00] that's going to be our new, like a catchphrase.
Brett: Yes, the south Georgia translation, the south Georgia.
Tony: Which if you if, if you go back and listen to the podcasts, Pata cases, podcast, I, I was able to be a guest on there.
We had a fairly lengthy conversation about the south Georgia translation, which actually leads me to a really interesting question, Brett, for you specifically is how did you manage to get these guys together? Because you guys clearly love each other and by love, I mean like in the masculine way, where all you do is make fun of each other.
Yeah, well, that's like the fifth love that Lewis never talked about the masculine ribbing way. Beautiful reference.
Brett: That's awesome. That's awesome. So Alan and I have been friends for, I mean, gosh, 12 years. We, we are part of Alan and are part of a clergy band group that has been together for probably about a decade [00:08:00] now.
That in south Georgia's called the S3 group, but study Sabbath and service is kind of what goes with that. And just in an intentional group of seven of us who pray together are in each other's lives. Many times we were texting each other through an app more times than we text our wives.
I mean, we're just all in each other's each other's lives. And so Alan and I have been close for that long, Jim and I were acquaintances and friends through the conference, but that was about it. But Alan and Jim were really, really close. And yeah, so Alan and Jim were really, really close. And so when I had this idea to do this podcast, I'd been wanting to do a podcast for a decade, but I could never find the idea until this came along.
And the Lord just. Alan and Jim and my heart. And so I called him that day. I didn't even delay. I said, Hey, I've got an idea. And they were on board. It was right in the middle of the shutdown pandemic. The churches hadn't started really reopening yet [00:09:00] for in-person worship. And it just clicked it, it was, it was just, Hey, let's do this thing.
And we did it. And if, for nothing else for us, we, we, we agreed at the very beginning. If no one else listens to this, but us, this is going to be good for us. The community we're building the friendship, we're building that kind of thing. And it just turned out that people liked it.
Tony: So, no, I love it. And I think that you guys have such a good rapport.
It makes it fun, but you guys also have a really unique way to to kind of dive into the topics. So, Alan, you're obviously the glue that holds this entire ship together.
Allen: I am the peanut butter. And jelly to this PB and J I'm the, I'm the brain in the double stuff. Oreo.
I'm the glue that holds it all together clearly. And it clearly you listen to you listen to [00:10:00] the podcast and you can't deny that. I,
Tony: I want to ask you this. I want to ask you this. What have you learned about God since doing this podcast and I'm going to ask, I like it everyone's reflection, but since Alan's the glue, I'm going to start with him. What have you learned about God since diving into that? I mean, cause I, you know, I've been a Wesleyan for a decade and I've never.
You know, read the, the, you know, Wesleys thoughts like, like you guys have for intentional preparation for intentional teaching. And and I certainly have never talked about it publicly on the podcast. So I I'm curious what it's done. What has it done to your relationship with God, Alan?
Allen: It's it's stretched me. In terms of my understanding, my theological understanding. I tell these guys all the time, these Brent and Jim they're the theological nerds for sure. And they, they inspire me [00:11:00] to be more of a theological nerd. But we, we referenced the first question of the catechism all the time, because it, it, it really.
It does it shapes everything else and you know, what's the chief end demand. What's our purpose is to glorify God and to enjoy him forever in it. It reminds me of the catechism. Catechism has reminded me that it is all about God. It's, you know all of it flows out of Our purpose to glorify him and to enjoy him forever.
You know, and we get, we get into the nitty gritty of the catechism and we get into all these different topics. And now we're like, know every recording we're in the 10 commandments. And there's, there's there's nuggets all the time, but it always comes back to the variable. To glorify God and to worship and enjoy him forever.
It is yeah, so that's, that's, that's kinda what I have gleaned from our time together. And I, I, I can't imagine us not doing it. But there was a time when we weren't and but it's been the best [00:12:00] thing for me as a pastor and as just as a, a Christ follower.
Tony: That's awesome.
Brett: Probably for me, it's reiterated in college, I was a part of, for four years as part of the Wesley foundation at Valdosta state university. And at that time, the campus minister that was there was heavily influenced by campus crusade for Christ, which is now called Cru and you know, the four spiritual laws sharing your faith that, so that was honed into me.
Really early on in my discipleship the importance of sharing your faith, but fast forward now, you know, 20 years later that importance of sharing my faith has not gone away. In fact, it's gotten deeper guys. God is, is someone who, who we're supposed to share, who we're supposed to teach, who we're supposed to pass along.
Jim and Allen make fun of me all the time, because there's about three pieces of scripture that I will talk about [00:13:00] all the time. And they say, they basically say, I don't read anything else in the Bible, but but one of those passages is Deuteronomy chapter six, the Shannon. The hero Israel, the Lord, God is one.
You shall love the Lord, your God with all your heart, soul, mind, with all your whole, your soul, with all your heart, your soul and your mind. And then there's the, you continue that though. And there's a piece in there where it says, and, and you're to teach you're to pass on to your children and their children and their child.
And that the whole, you know, tie them to your door post and bind them to your hearts. And it's talking about the law, right? But Jesus has Jesus references this passage when he gives the great commandment to love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself.
There's a sense in the command of Jesus himself is to carry this out, to teach. And even he says in the great commission. To not only to baptize new, you know, the new converts, not only to make [00:14:00] disciples, but to teach them everything that he has, that he's commanded, teach them to obey everything that he's commanded.
So the command to teach and to pass on the faith is is important. And I think. The church as a whole. And I can only really speak from a particular brand of church Wesleyan Methodist, United Methodist. Our, our, our weakness has been this passing on the faith. We've turned church membership into you know, a.
Here's what our local churches like, here's the history of the local church. Here's what you can do, but we haven't done a good job, even in our cat confirmation classes of passing on the faith once given to the, to the, to the disciples to the saints once delivered to the saints. So. For me, it has reiterated that God is worth sharing.
You know, God is worth teaching.
Tony: Hmm. And I love that. I love that.[00:15:00] Jim, what about you, man?
Jim: Yeah, just two quick thoughts. One is if, if we're not teaching the fullness of God in this faith we're going to lose because there's no shortage of ideology out there and we're going to lose the beauty. But for me personally I'll just say, I think.
With pure confidence. I am more deeply in love with God today than I was before we started this. Amen. And I mean, in a very real way, and it's affected a lot of things in my personal life, reflecting, especially in the early days of the podcast, when our questions were about the nature of God and the nature of human beings.
The Bible says to set your hearts and minds on things above and that's because it's worth doing, because it changes things. And my heart has been filled. Precious majesty and grace to the point where just a conviction in my own heart about how important human bodies are, has changed. So there was a movement of God in my life and in my wife's life that [00:16:00] that led us to choose to have another child.
Just because as we meditated on who God was and, and what our future would be, it was just a call. That life is so precious. Now that might sound weird to you all. I can go into that later. But the other thing in ministry, especially, and Alan alluded to is it's just reminded me of. God first, everything is, and I'll admit to say in preaching and teaching, I'd be looking for the practical nuggets and the scriptures to try to tease those out.
And it just reminded to let's look for God first, proclaimed God first and let everything else.
Tony: Do you guys think that when you, when you started the podcast, you guys all were like, Hey, let's do this because it'll help form our own relationship with God. Or is that just a by-product of, of focusing on God?
So intentionally. Hmm. Hmm.
Brett: That's a really good question. I think I'm beat to be completely honest. I think for [00:17:00] me it was To try something different in a, in a season that you know of this, if anything, the, the, the lockdown, the shutdowns did for me was give me the ball boldness to try something different that I may not have tried or may have made excuses to do.
So I don't, I don't think I set out to do this as a means to get closer to God, but man, the Lord, the Lord is. Amazing and how he works and how he, when you're deep into his word and you're deep into the things of him and, you know, seeking the truth and, and who he is. He just reveals himself, as Jim said, and beautiful and powerful ways, and you can't help, but fall in love with him even deeper and deeper than.
Tony: So it's interesting when you guys are doing your podcast thing, you typically bring up a part of the catechism and then you kind of discuss it. You give [00:18:00] it a little nugget, you give it some scripture to back it up, which I absolutely love being. Rooted in scripture. You guys seem to have a really good grasp on scripture, and I'm curious, I always love to ask people what, what are some of your daily disciplines to stay rooted in the faith?
Right. So what are some of the things that you do on an everyday basis to, to stay connected to God? So that, so that you're prepared to talk both theologically and. And relationally and Alan, let's go ahead and start with you.
Allen: So we're doing something this year. Our church has reading through the scriptures.
And so we have a five day reading plan. I think I stole that from Jim. I mean borrowed from Jim. He probably borrowed it from somewhere else. And so that, that is, that is certainly guided me this year. There's the. There's an app that I use is called Lexio 365. I don't know if you guys use that, but it is a it is a [00:19:00] an app just sort of start the day in now to end the day they have a, have a end of the day kind of it's sort of like a meditation.
But it guides you through a passage of scripture and how to pray through that scripture. And and they usually have sort of a overarching topic or theme that they're going through during the week. And so that's been very helpful for me.
Brett: So this year for the first time, in a long time, I decided to do a, a, not a read through, but a listen through the entire Bible on a daily reading plan, basically just listened to it, being read over me which has been awesome. In that sense I've also just recently have taken up centering prayer meditative type prayer based upon Dr.
Brian Russell's. Book centering prayer. And that's been incredible. Just kind of sitting in quiet for 10 to 20 minutes a day, not, not thinking about anything, but Jesus has been really impactful as well. But just, you know, for [00:20:00] me, Been the constant immersion in God's word this year, just but being focused on it, saying this is every day I'm going to do this.
And that's been really, really, really good for me. And, and the power of hearing the word read to you has been a blessing that I didn't think it would be like, I just, just tried it out as a Lark in, on one does on the Bible app. And I was like, and it's just, I CA I couldn't get away from it. It's all.
Tony: That's fantastic. Jim, what about.
Jim: Yeah, I can't admit that I'm super good at this. When you say daily, I cringe a little cause I am working on it. I've got kind of a working rule of life that I fail at all the time, but here's my general thing. I'm a journaler. I learned that from, from a bunch of people.
It's really great for me as a verbal processor to kind of prey on paper. I also have been immersed in scripture through reading plans. To kind of read through the Bible, but what I've been working on the last couple of weeks is [00:21:00] just Alexia Davina, a spiritual reading through the, through the book of acts.
And what I've been asking the Lord to do is to reveal, reveal the holy spirit to me is that involves reading, praying, reflecting, and then I'll often use my journal in that too. One of my favorite things is evening prayer night. It's just so beautiful to me. And there's a lot of different ways you can use the 24 7 prayer Lexia 365 app.
There's a common worship from the Anglican church and, and others. I like to do with my kids when they're, when they're not too rowdy and they'll actually sit down and do it.
Tony: Jim, I've watched you since we started this podcast and you have not stood still for more than two minutes. I am. No, I got my standing desk.
I'm quite confident that your kids are not standing still either.
Jim: You just put you just pegged that as a learned behavior. I have to go journal about that. Tony.
That's all, man, I'm on the move. I'm also got like six cups of coffee. Oh,
Tony: I love it. I love it. I [00:22:00] love it. No, I, I, what I appreciated is the diversity in this kind of equation of daily disciplines. And I think it's just a good reminder that striving for. That routine connection to God is, is one of the major goals of our faith walk and, and something you guys illustrate so beautifully.
So we, we have quite a bit of time left and I want to transition a little bit to kind of. Give our listeners an example of some of the work that you guys do on your podcast, which is you take theological subjects and then you make them very palatable for the everyday Christian. And so you're all pastors, you're all theologians.
Even though you may not identify as one. And so. We're getting ready to head into the advent season. And I know that there are some people here who will often say I'm, I'm super spiritual and just not religious. Right. And I love Christmas and they'll forget all about advent. [00:23:00] And so I was kind of hoping that you guys could kind of.
Kind of talk us through why theology around advent matters to Christmas?
Brett: Well, you know that's such a great question. And you know, for me advent it's about the preparation and. The whole story of the old Testament leading up to Jesus really is a whole, it's like an, almost an advent story long.
If prep preparing for preparing, for preparing, for preparing for that whole history of Israel, leading up to the Messiah, coming, preparing for preparing for preparing for people who have walked in darkness will see a great light or have seen a great light preparing for So much in our culture, we prepare for, for Christmas, we buy the presence.
We wrap the presents, we put up the Christmas tree, we put up the lights, we listened to the music. We go to the Christmas parties. We do that. We prepare for everything. It seems to me [00:24:00] that we really should have a heart to preparing for. Celebrating the birth of a Lord, our Lord even more than how we prepare for the mundane Christmas celebration that we have and that we, we do.
So for me, and it matters because Jesus matters like the, the, the Messiah coming matters. Salvation matters. Advent tells us why that the Messiah is important, tells us why Jesus is important. Why the birth of this baby in Bethlehem is important.
Tony: Oh, that's good. That's that'll that'll preach any day of the week.
Brett: I just wrote my Christmas Eve sermon.
Jim: Hello. Thanks. Thanks guys.
Tony: Well, we'll get the full transcripts out. You'll be able to just copy and paste right into, right into your certain file. That's fantastic, Alan. Well, what are your thoughts on the top?
Allen: Very, very similar. You know, I, you [00:25:00] admin and lint in similar fashions.
You know, we, we tend to think about Easter and in the church, it is often one of the bigger Sundays of the year people attend when they don't normally attend other times similar to Christmas as we get closer to Christmas, Christmas Eve, maybe.
But oftentimes if you don't have links or that preparation or that, that and if you don't remember good Friday, then suddenly you just show up and Jesus is alive and And
Brett: I didn't know he was dead. What's going on? He know, right.
Jim: What am I missing?
you're going to have to super edit this one. Tony Prescott, 15 minutes.
Allen: But if we don't, [00:26:00] so if we don't tell the story, if we don't you know then, then suddenly it's just there, you know, and we haven't prepared our hearts for what for what is for what is there you know, it's advent and land are so anti-cultural, I mean, they're not, they're not.
It is a way for the church to stand out, to remind people of what is, what is really going on, what has happened, what I love Lynn and I know we're talking about having, but I love lamp because it really there's so many different ways to prepare your heart. And the same thing happened can happen with advent and in preparing your heart.
Not just, not just about decorations, not just about singing carols, but you think about it this way. I mean it takes nine months for a baby to be born. Right. And so there's a lot of there's as Brett talks about there's I mean, typically, right. Yeah. But. Th this there's a lot of preparation that goes into, we ought to spend the time to repair a hearts and minds and souls to, for the, for the celebration of Christ birth.
So much, much [00:27:00] like what Brett said.
Brett: Interestingly, I'm sorry to just interrupt, but if we're, if you want to get a taste of what the podcast is like, this is what it's like is. But we're not, we're not only preparing for the birth of G the celebrate, the birth of Jesus, but the beautiful thing in advent is the preparation for an expectation that the Messiah will come back, that he is coming back.
And I think it's important that first Sunday in advent is all about. I mean the, the, if you go through the the the common law, the lectionary, if you do the lectionary readings, it's about the future. Hope it's about the Messiah coming back. And so it's not just about something that happened 2000 years ago in a manger somewhere.
It's about a future reality and a reality we live in right now. So that's one of the beautiful things about advent that really kind of helps set our mind. My mind, at least I'm in the right place.
Allen: W which is the same, same in regards to Easter and all of our sort of holidays is we're remembering something to [00:28:00] have in the past.
We're also looking to a new, a new hope, a new future. Yes.
Jim: By the way, a lot of cases is filled with star wars
Brett: references, all kinds of star wars references. Right.
Jim: So why does, why does it matter? Like let's, let's say, let's say that I am maybe spiritually inclined. Christmas is cool. What advent can do for us, especially in that context is, Hey look, life.
Isn't always great. And I've got hopes that are unrealized right now in my life. I've got I'm not happy. I've got longings and I'm hurting. And advent speaks directly into that because as you trace the narrative of scripture, Yeah. If you're willing to read non direct birth stories and advent, you're reading about people who are oppressed and hurting and hoping, and longing, and we are hoping and longing and hurting, and you can speak directly into that.
And, and the thing about this dual focus of [00:29:00] advent, the term means being a Latin for coming or arriving is that yes. Hope has come, but guess what? It's not just in the. That hope is still coming. So you can speak into those really human, non saccharin kind of circumstances that we're all in. And especially if you're outside the faith, looking in, it gives you an entry point.
It can give you an entry point and speak into a place in your heart.
Brett: I mean that is for me, That is the beautiful message of advent going into Christmas that promise of the angels to marry. He will call him Emmanuel. Why? Because. He is God with us that, I mean, that just, that that's the past reflection in the old Testament, God being with his people, God being with his people in the pre, in the person of Jesus Christ and God being with his people now and into the future and the presence of the holy spirit among us.
I mean, that is the common thread that just moves from [00:30:00] Genesis to revelation. And advent is, is, is pivotal in that to pivotal moving into Christmas.
Tony: Do you guys think that as we've made the church more attractional, we've sold the beauty of some of the things like advent, because, I mean, honestly I grew up in a a Methodist church that isn't as more attractional than it is.
Orthodox before I was pastoring at restoration, right. That it was a bigger church. It was very mainline. You could say, I don't think that's a bad word. And I know a lot of people that would come into that church and that had never heard of advent before. W what, what happens when we throw advent out away during the, so
Jim: I'll, I'll tell you, first off advent is not say integral necessary for salvation.
So like I get it, I get it. And I don't want to over critique because I'm sure that there are things that, that I'm just really missing the ball [00:31:00] on, but I wonder if. Yeah. What's that star wars. Yeah, there you go.
You should've seen when the Mandalorian was on the air, we were really bad, but in the. And the concept of attracting people that may be, we, maybe we're throwing at the target, but we're hitting the outer ends of it. Like throwing out things. I don't think maybe even people are throwing out things, but trying to focus on things that seem like they work and maybe they work in the immediate and maybe they're all helpful.
But maybe along the line, you find out that you lose some of the richness and you lose some of the people and some of the spiritual depth. And so there's a, there's a concept of. Instant gratification that I think we can really fool ourselves with, with our ecclesiology and practice of church that Hey, this work right now, I'm going to give away a PS five at Christmas.
We don't need to light advent candles and truthfully you don't need to light them. But are you, can you be [00:32:00] richer because of them? Yes, you can. And the PS five will become the PS six and those kids will grow up. And when you don't give away another one, 10 years down the road, you don't have spiritually rich people.
So I think it's just a matter of, kind of say, let's look at the wisdom of what we're doing. There's a, there's a phrase I have come across that I am enamored with. It's called traditioned innovation, traditioned innovation which, which I think encompasses . We three gentlemen are it's that we need to innovate without a doubt, because we don't want to lose our culture by clinging stingily to practices or methods, but we cannot innovate with.
Doing so in the flavor of what has been handed to us and who we are as a people. So there's my old
Brett: stuff matters, old stuff. Well, here's the thing. And the whole very y'all know here's the very thing too, is the, the, the ancient church, the, the, the, the historic church. Let me just say the historic church [00:33:00] used things like advent, lint Easter Pentecost, these moments.
Cat catechesis your round catechesis. This taught the faith. This would use to teach the faith. So in many ways, if we just let it go, then we release our responsibility of passing on the faith once delivered to the saints in a robust, in a foundational way. So lighting those candles on Sunday, if you just light them with no explanation, no teaching behind it, nothing.
You're just lighting a pink camp. Three purple candles or whatever the combination you're using. People who may have not been churched or de-churched or disenfranchise or nuns or whatever they are. They're just gonna be like, there's this just extra candles up there. We don't know what's going on.
They're reading some passage. We don't know, but that is an opportunity that is. They are right in front of us to, to pass on the faith once delivered. Right? I mean, it's right
Jim: there. A lot of these things can be degenerate [00:34:00] into man-made traditions that people over respond against. And the reality is what Brad has said, architecture practice these kinds of things, our teaching tools, because I I'm sorry, guys.
I know all four of us are preachers, but ain't, everybody cares about pre. Yeah. You know you could preach your heart out and you're going to reach her. You're going to reach, but the board people who look at the story of Jesus in the stained glass window that are preaches when you're looking at a candle and you had just talked about love and waiting you are putting a visual representation of the gospel.
So. Again, you can probably achieve the same goals without them. And so I don't want to say, Hey, you have to have say the liturgical calendar and whatever, but I believe it's a super effective tool. Yes. Just like me.[00:35:00]
Tony: What was I going to ask him who even knows Alan? I wanted to ask you, cause I feel like out of the three of you, you guys, the three Amigos here you might be the most practically minded from, from what I can tell.
Whoops I church member, let's just say that. Church member named Todd comes up to you and he says, Hey, I've been listening to your podcast. And I I've, I feel really convicted that I want to be more theologically minded. Right. Aside from listening to the podcast, which we know everyone's going to go and subscribe to immediately.
Absolutely. What is the next thing that you're going to recommend to that church member? To, to, to put a little foundation to what and why we believe what we believe?
Allen: So good. It's a good question. Well, if you're talking about, well, we can talk about this a couple of different ways. When you're talking about this [00:36:00] resource wise, if you want to read more, I'm going to highly recommend seedbed.com for various various studies on all kinds of things.
There are one book series on the different books of the Bible are great. I highly recommend and epic. Sandra Richter, only old Testament, amazing stuff. Then of course, they've got all kinds of Wesley, Wesley resources. One that we've oh my gosh guys resources that we've talked about a lot the absolute basis of the Christian faith which, which is so funny because it's a.
It's primarily a video driven cartoon. When those, how do you call animated, animating the lessons drawing on hand, but my adult. Absolutely ate that stuff up. I mean, it was amazing. And it, it is basically a catechism. Absolutely. Basically the Christian faith is the catechism. And then here's the other thing, and this is[00:37:00] less, definitely less resource driven.
I would highly recommend someone finding a group of of. To bandwidth to be to, to form a band, a small group not geared around any curriculum or anything, just the ancient, the old questions of how is it with your soul and cause we can gain information and knowledge and all that's all great.
But then to look somebody in the eye and say, here's what I'm struggling with. Can you pray for. The spirit will use that and it will, and you will grow. You will grow in Christ's likeness through being together in a band. So right off the top of my head, that's what I would, that's what I would.
Tony: Those are great answers. I love all those. I love all this, Jim. Brett, did he miss anything? You guys feel like you got to say.
Brett: No, I will only say that. I know we make fun of Alan sometimes for, you know, what various reasons. But I will [00:38:00] say this, I agree when it comes to small group stuff and he deserves it most of the time, but.
Oh, when it comes to the small group stuff, I mean, he's even challenged me on this too, where I've started a few different small group class meetings and band meetings because of him, because one of the things with Alan is that Alan will like, he tends to, if he sees a need and it needs to be done, like in his church at met her, he's just he's got these small groups going and Doing a great job with it.
And it impacts me on my end of things. And so yeah, he's walking the walk on that one.
Allen: Well, I'll tell you what we survived. We survived the pandemic with small groups. When you, when you couldn't meet in large groups, small groups was the key. So so it's pandemic proof. Bam, take that. The
Tony: trademark that I got one more question for you guys.
My last question on the podcast, but [00:39:00] before I do that, I know that my people are going to want to learn more about you guys about the potty as podcasts. Where can they go to learn all the things to get the swag or whatever it is they,
they
Brett: need? You can go. dot podbean.com. dot podbean.com. That's where you can find all our episodes and show notes.
Come on boys. There you go. And you can find the show notes. You can find the resources we're looking at. You can find bios of people. We interview all that stuff there. You can also find us on Instagram, on Twitter and on Facebook at as the handle across the social media platforms. And yeah, that's, that's where you can find this,
Jim: not all of your podcasts on all of your podcast platforms.
You can download automatically by subscribing and leaving reviews on apple.
Brett: And, and I just have to say, as far as the newest members of the spirit and truth podcasting network, you can find us@spiritandtruth.life. That's where you can find us.
Tony: [00:40:00] And in person in March, in Dayton, Ohio at the spirit and truth conference,
they're more than willing to sign your copy of John Wesley's catechism or whatever it is that you might need.
Jim: Both of you all sign, I'll sign both of those things.
Brett: We're trying to, we're trying to keep Alan from charging for his autograph, but he's, he's holding firm to it. He's holding firm to prices.
Tony: Well, you're the glue. That's what happens
Brett: when you're the
Allen: glue, when you're the cream and the. Yeah.
Brett: Oh my goodness gracious.
Tony: Okay. Last question. The last question that I always love to ask people. By the way, if you're listening to this I'm going to recommend that you also go and check out the YouTube channel that comes along with this because the faces are incredible.
Jim: I [00:41:00] did not know that did not know that.
Hold on Tony.
Tony: I just got a YouTube Tony Belton burger and a, and the reclamation podcast will show up. It'll be wonderful. This will be episode 1 35 or the podcast. So Google app sewed 1 35. I'm just yet.
Brett: I'm just glad Jim decided to wear a shirt today. That's good to know.
Tony: Okay, last question. Last question.
I had to try to lay on this point and somewhere in the middle of
a it's an advice question. And if you listen to my podcast, I ask it at the end of every episode. And it's to ask yourself to go back and give yourself one piece of advice, except I get the name the day and the time that you do at instance, all three of you got. Live in different places and do different things.
There's one point of common reference and that that I'm going to use [00:42:00] today. And that is the day after you graduated seminary. So the day after you graduated seminary, if you could go back and give that younger version of yourself one piece of advice as you're getting ready to set out on a glorious podcasting career and a glamorous pastoring career and all of those things what's the one piece of advice you're, you're giving yourself.
Brett: I'll go first on that one. For me it would be it's okay to say no. I have and, and Alan and Jim. Have been very, very good at challenging me on this cause I tend to be a workaholic and just to keep going and going and going. And I would go back to that, that kid and say, Hey it's okay to say no.
And yeah,
Tony: that's good. Alan, what about you?[00:43:00]
Allen: It's such a good question. I guess I'd go back to what I've already said. I would, I would say run to your friends. Run, run. Don't walk. Don't walk. Don't. Don't come up with any other excuses, just run, run to your friends.
Brett: Wow. Amen.
Jim: I echo that. I would go back to myself and say, Jim, get this through prayer through your thick skull and do it every day.
Jim, none of this belongs to you. Hmm, none of this belongs to you. Yeah. Hold it loosely and love it all.
Tony: Amen. Yeah. Amen guys. Thank you so much for what you do for the kingdom. Thanks for being a part of the spirit and truth podcast network and and thanks for quickly becoming some of my favorite people on the planet.
And I just really appreciate you guys so much and the journey that we get to be on together.
Brett: Awesome. Awesome. Thank you, Tony. Yeah, thanks.
Tony: [00:44:00] Man. I told you guys, Brett Allen and Jim are some of my favorite humans. I love the way that they interact together. I love the way that they share their faith and help us grow in ours, man.
I, I think the way that they approach advent is so healthy. And as we head into the Christmas season, it's a reminder to, to root ourselves in the preparation for what is. Again, thank you guys so much for being a part of the podcast today. Thank you for joining us on this platform. Hit that subscribe button, wherever you listen to podcasts, leave a rating or review on iTunes, and maybe even share this episode with a friend.
Thank you guys so much. And remember if you want to follow Jesus, you must be willing to move.
