#154: Dominic Done: Your Longing Has a Name
In Your Longing Has a Name: Come Alive to the Story You Were
Made For, author, speaker, pastor, and theologian Dominic Done casts a
a much-needed vision of hope, showing us who God says we already are:
created, loved, and called by him to live out his dreams for our lives.
Read the full transcripts here.
Links:
https://www.pursuingfaith.org/
https://www.facebook.com/DominicFrancisDone
https://www.instagram.com/dominicdone/
https://twitter.com/dominicdone
EP. 154
Tony: [00:00:00] Hey everybody. Welcome back to the reclamation podcast, where our goal is to help you reclaim good practices for faith and life. I'm Tony, I'm your host. And today is episode 1 54 of the podcast where I sit down with author speaker and pastor Dominick Dunne. Dominick has a brand new resource out your longing hasn't.
And it's all about your soul care. It's about how do you take care of the deep parts of who you are? It's connected to purpose it's connected to doubt is connect to breathing again and soul formation. This is a really good rich, deep conversation, and we believe that through intentional conversation, we can help you unpack a deeper relationship with.
That's what it's all about. That's why we're here. And I think this episode, if you've got some stuff in your past, if you've got some doubts, if [00:01:00] you are worried about kind of the emotional health of your soul, this will be a great episode for you. And if it is, do me a favor, hit that subscribe button, wherever you listen to podcasts, leave us a rating or review on iTunes or Spotify.
And Hey, the biggest compliment you can give. Share this episode with a friend I'd also, I love to hear about how this episode impacted you. So feel free to look me up on Instagram at TW Milt at TW M I L T. Now, without any further ado, here's my conversation. With Dominick Dunne, everybody. Welcome back to the podcast.
I'm excited today to have a nonprofit leader, theologians speaker, and pastor Don with us today. Dom, thank you so much for taking some time out of your busy schedule to join us. Yeah. So you know, I was kind of doing a little research on what God has called you to over [00:02:00] the years. You're, you're recently into a new nonprofit pursuing the faith after pastoring and you write, and obviously you, you head on, we're going to talk more about that.
How would you describe the calling that God has placed on your life? Let's start.
Dominic: Yeah. So, as you mentioned, I was a lead pastor for a number of years and a few different places. We lived in North Carolina for a year. We were in England and Europe Hawaii for eight years suffering for the Lord there.
And that was a great place to pastor by the way. And then most recently almost a decade up in Portland, Oregon, and yeah, you're right recently. The Lord has led us to start a new non-profit that's called pursuing faith and our websites pursuing faith.org has all the info and stuff, what we're about, but essentially it's to help people walk through seasons of doubt and deconstruction into a deeper.
And more [00:03:00] flourishing faith. And so it's really kind of two components to it. On one side, we're focusing on the doubt apologetics, and that was the subject of my first book. And then the second book is more in faith and flourishing and how our faith can grow, because I think one of the best ways to kind of butcher us our soul against the attacks that we're seeing, culturally our own doubts, our own struggles.
Sometimes we can fortify our soul in advance by seeing practical ways that, that our faith can grow and to see what the word of God has to say about it. So right now, focusing on writing doing a lot of podcasting and speaking and then we're also doing a lot behind the scenes as well. For this non-pro.
Tony: I love it. And I want to recommend everyone go subscribe to pursuing the faith podcast. Check that out wherever you listen to podcasts at you tackle some really tough things. And I appreciate that kind of work. Cause it, it does take a very specific call to head [00:04:00] into things like deconstruction. And I was kind of curious if you could give us W, why do you think in the work that you're seeing that deconstruction of the faith, maybe you could define it for us.
Give us a working definition and then talk a little bit about why it's becoming so seemingly prevalent even amongst other faith leaders who are almost encouraging it. I dunno if that's the right word, what, what are your thoughts on all that?
Dominic: It is a huge topic. And so I, I first began to really consider this topic.
I'd say 2010 to 2012. When I went through my own season of doubt and deconstruction and reconstruction, and it was it was a hard season. I think that often is disorienting. You know, Psalm 73 says as for me, my feet almost slipped and that was right after the author said, God is good. But then he says, my feet almost [00:05:00] slipped because of doubt that was going on in his life.
And really that's what doubt is. Doubt. I mean the actual etymology of the word just means to be split or to be torn. The Latin has this idea of being torn into. And one interesting note about that is when you study cultural anthropology, They always have this same idea of Tunis or dividedness or tornness, for example, in the ancient Chinese language, you know, how they use word pictures to describe certain things?
Well, their word picture for doubt is a man with a foot in two separate boats, which probably isn't going to end well. Or do you think the book of James right. James is a person who doubts is one who's tossed on the waves of the sea back and forth. And we often use verses like that, or sometimes use verses like that to bash Christians and see like, if there's something wrong with you because you're doubting.
But in reality, a doubt is part of human. Emotion. That's very normal to the human [00:06:00] story. And I, I think we need to get our theology from doubt and this opens up a whole other conversation if you want to go there. But I think we need to get our theology of doubt from Genesis three or Genesis one, rather than Genesis three, because in Genesis three, Satan uses doubt in a very destructive way and doubt can be.
But Genesis one, if we get our understanding of doubt there, well, essentially you see an infinite God creating a finite world. He puts us on this planet with very real limitations things that we don't know, things we don't understand while at the same time, making us curious. And so doubt is kind of born in that space of unknowing.
So it's the dividedness because on one hand you have a theology or background or things you've gained from your church. But then you're confronted with life's problems and heartache and you go through stuff or you're disillusioned by the church, or you struggle with some philosophical or theological idea.
And so there's going to be a tension there. And what I [00:07:00] argue for is that beautiful things can happen in that. Th that doubt isn't the same as unbelief unbelief in scripture is described as a sin. That's a different thing though. That is when you're torn, you're divided, you're trying to figure things out.
It's the quest, it's the pursuit. And it's in those spaces that God can meet us, or we can wrestle with him and where our faith can be reborn in a sense. To come back to your question about what's happening right now, culturally, there are so many things that are fueling this cultural moment as far as doubt and deconstruction.
I think there's a lot of cynicism that's out there right now. People. Are hurting after walking through the last few years of pandemic and tension in our own country, politically, and the loss of loved ones in our own family, we lost, lost several family members over the last few years. And people are going through this time of grief.
They're trying to process their [00:08:00] grief. People have seen how churches have responded to different political events. That's caused a lot of tension. We, we see what's happening as far as well-known former Christian celebrities. I hate that term because it's oxymoron, but influencers, right. Who have publicly deconstructed their faith.
We're seeing the collapse of well-known Christian leaders morally ethically. You know, even just this last week at another documentary, exposing Hillsong and all these things coming out and people see that and they read about that. They hear about well-known Christian leaders. And it can cause a deep seated disillusionment.
I think for the emerging generation particular, there is a hunger for an authentic version of faith that maybe in some sectors of American evangelicalism, that hasn't been the emphasis, the emphasis over the last generation or so has been on [00:09:00] growth and numbers and mega and bigger. And yet people are craving something more real and more rich and more true.
And so all of these things together are swirling and not to mention the pressures of culture, right? Netflix tick off, whatever that make it increasingly harder to believe. And so we do live in this moment where according to a recent stat, two thirds of American Christians say they struggle with doubt.
On a regular basis. I mean, that's astronomic, huge amounts of people are wrestling with their faith. And so we need to have some practical ways that we can walk through those seasons. We need to understand what doubt is so that we can understand God's heart in the midst of.
Tony: You mentioned that you were in a season of doubt. I'm always curious. What, what brought you out? Like what, what brought you back to a season of faithfulness kind of in a different way, or, or maybe you just learned to [00:10:00] live with Dow? How does that, how did that work in your.
Dominic: Wow. Yeah, that's an interesting statement, learning to live with doubt.
So I, I shared the whole story in my first book when faith fails and for me, it was a number of things. It was. An inability growing up in my early years to know how to process my doubt. So I'm more of an introvert. And when I struggle with something, I tend to suppress it. I tend to push it down. And so I had years and years of questions.
Heartache and things. I'd experienced things. I'd seen questions that I had that I didn't know what to do with. And so I'm suppressing them, but downgrade, his strength is secrecy. I it's not until we drag it into the light that it can become healing and redemptive. And so there was that. There was also, you know, at that time I was at the university of Oxford and the new atheism was really in Vogue at that time.
[00:11:00] And part of my studies was, you know, sitting at the feet of a well-known atheist throughout history and some current as well. Richard Dawkins, for example, he lived a Stone's throw away from where I was studying. I didn't throw stones. But you know, it was just the electric environment of, of atheism and then theism.
Debates about God. And you know, so I'm doing all this research and study and writing on the topic. And as you're exposed to these arguments, they're going to create natural questions. So there was that element of the intellectual, academic, philosophical side of things and things I just wanted to resolve.
So what I did in that season, and it was actually intentional, was I want to take all these questions that I have. And during this season of my life, I just want. Like Jacob, I want to wrestle with God. I want to figure out what his word has to say. I want to process my own doubts and. I never, I wouldn't say I fully resolved everything.
I don't think that can happen. I mean, the [00:12:00] apostle Paul said we see through a glass dimly and someday face to face. Doubt is part of the complicated and a grammatic mess of what it means to be human. I'm the philosopher, Michael Novak said the doubt. Isn't so much a dividing line that separates people into different camps as it is a Razor's edge, which runs through every soul.
You know, James K. Smith. He said we breathe the secondhand smoke of doubt. So part of it was just learning to be okay with unanswered or unanswerable questions and learning to, you know, dance with the limp in a sense. You know, like Jacob, when he wrestled with God he, he was changed in the process.
Of wrestling, his name was changed. His character was changed. But he still walked away with a limp. He, he, he still had questions, right. And I'm coming to realize, I think this is a lifelong process for any believer like CS Lewis talked about [00:13:00] in his book kill, we have faces, there's this haunting line where he says, I now know Lord, why you utter no answer.
You are yourself. The answer before your face, all questions die away. What other question would suffice? And I think there's a beauty to that. There's a beauty to the unknowing. There's a beauty to. Lord, I'm still going to trust you. I'm still going to follow you. I don't fully understand it all, but like Peter said, where else can I go?
You alone have the words of eternal life. And so that's kinda where I'd say on that now I still, yeah, there's still things I wrestle with and think about, but we ought to faith is wrestling. Faith is unknowing. Faith is learning to dance with a limp. But it's also, I think how we, how we grow.
Tony: I think that's beautiful language for a culture that's really struggles with not being perfect. You know, back to back to your statement about authenticity, [00:14:00] right? Learning to dance, the limp it it's. Kind of looking at kind of what God has done in your life from a macro viewpoint, you kind of went from doubt and then continued to serve in the local church.
And now you took this huge leap of faith and, and this brand new text that you have out longing has a name, you know, Title is, has come alive for the story you were made for. And, and I'm kinda, I always love to ask people, how did you know from God that it was the right time to move? Like, how do you recognize God's voice?
Like, oh, I should write a book on doubt. Oh, now I should write a book on soul work. And oh, by the way, along the way I should leave my church and move my family across the globe. Those are pigs.
Dominic: Wow that man, that's a loaded question. How do we know? I, again, you know, the, the language of certainty I'm always reluctant to [00:15:00] use because people can wheel that in silly ways or to justify, right.
When they actually want to do, and then, you know, slap on the label and God told me to. But at the same time, God does speak. God does reveal things and longings in our heart. You know, I come back to that verse so well known, but it's true that God gives us the desires of our heart. And I think God will plant seeds in our life as we're trying to discern our way forward longing.
Desires dreams. And sometimes the dream is for today. Sometimes it's four or five or 10, 20 years from now, but in time, you know, it begins to grow. So I think there's the desire, the natural desire. I think there's the voice of others. Yeah. And the multitude of counselors there is wisdom. And so in our story, some of our closest friends and elders of the church and people that we had done life with for a long time, they could see the doors were opening.
They could see the passion that that [00:16:00] was in our life around. Areas of ministry. And so being open to receiving what others have to say, especially those who know you well, of course those moments of prayer seeking the peace of the Lord is so vital moments in the word where God confirms things. And then I also think there's just the practical side of God, opening doors and wrestling through.
Is this is this where I'm supposed to go? Is this what I'm supposed to do? Does this make sense? Is this good for my families is a good next step. And there always is that, that step of faith that's involved you know, I think if Peter, when, when Jesus first called him, he. He was told to go into deeper waters, Dietrich Bonhoeffer actually use the same language about going into the deep and it's there.
We discover the presence of God. And for Peter, that made no sense at the time, because he had already been fishing all night and caught nothing. Nevertheless, Lord, he said at your word, I'll do it. And so for us, it [00:17:00] was a huge step of faith. That's in some ways why our ministry is called pursuing faith because.
Yeah. We didn't know how all these things are gonna work out. But we we've seen as we've taken this step and often it's, as you take this step that you discover God's presence, you discover his provision. And, and we've seen that in, in our story and it's a beautiful thing. It seems that in our life, God has.
Always kind of called us to do these wild, crazy ventures. Whether when I was younger, packing up everything on a moment's notice. And did your wife married? Oh yeah. Yeah, she knew. So we first met when I was done living in the jungle for three years teaching the Bible to a group of college students who would come from different islands.
No electricity, no running water. We're speaking this foreign language called Bislama. I come back from the jungle and look like I just come back from the jungle and yeah, so she, she knew it from day one. And she's awesome. [00:18:00] You know, she's just willing to go wherever God leads us. And so we got married and we moved to Europe, went to England for a year, and then we moved to Vienna.
She was a school teacher and I'm teaching English for Sony and Panasonic. And then we moved to Hawaii to help start a Bible college and then became a pastor there. And it's like, I'm just going to move this around then over to Oxford and. But we love it. You know, it's not, everyone's calling some people are called to be rooted and centered in a single place for their entire life.
Other people God's like, I, you know, I've got a unique path for you and it may look like watching a tennis match because I'm going to bounce you around the whole time. But for us, it's. Fun. And I think the more steps of faith you take in a sense, it gets a little easier because you're like we've done this before.
We've been in crazy situations before, but gods.
Tony: One of the things that's obvious [00:19:00] as I hear you talk about your walk with the Lord and kind of your calling is that you've developed an intimacy with him. I always love to hear what are some of like your go-to disciplines that create and kind of keep that healthy relationship, you know, as it, as it pertains to how you follow and and, and walk with Jesus.
Dominic: Oh man. So in, in the new book, I have a chapter on this actually the chapters called breathe again, and I am talking about really the ground zero for our souls to flourish is intimacy and closeness with God. We look at Genesis where when God created male and female, it makes Adam. Probably thinks I can do a whole lot better.
And that's when he makes Eve and God, it says God to them, right. And as you know that word breadth, there is ruach in the Hebrew it's breath and spirit life. [00:20:00] He breathed into them and you have this beautiful line. It says, Adam, Became a living soul and that word living there, it's a beautiful rich word.
It actually speaks of a flower that's blossoming and blooming and flourishing. So his soul began to flourish through intimacy with God. Like if you're close enough to someone to feel their breath on your face. That's pretty intimate, right? You're you're either married or about to be. And so by Cubs, reading on Adam, it's painting this picture of, of intimacy and closeness and Adam and Eve walking with God in the cool of the day.
It's this beautiful. Deena picture that is painted for us. And it was God's intention for humanity that we would live in closeness with an, of course, sin disrupted all that and ruined all that. But God is still drawing us back in a sense to the garden. It's why the book of revelation ends with kind of a [00:21:00] recreation in a sense of, of Eden with tree of life and the river and closeness and intimacy with God.
So our soul comes alive. Through the breath of God, the spirit of God, the presence of God. And so for me personally, that's a daily choice of just sitting still in his presence, intentionally releasing the weight of the day, the burdens of the day, the anxiety of the day, cast your cares. No, because he cares for you and then receiving from the Lord through his word.
I love spending time in the book of Psalms. For me, that's just been such a healing place. Psalms are beautiful because they give voice to our doubt and. They give voice to our faith and just asking God to really guide my day to speak into my heart, to open up my life, to, to his will. And so for me, it's a daily practice.
And you know, some people are morning people [00:22:00] you get up and you're just, you know, you're ready to go. And God is like right there. And you sense his presence. Other people. You know, see us Lewis. He said, I don't even know if I'm a Christian sometimes until later on in the day. And I think it's until I've had my fourth cup of coffee, it's like, okay, now we've got kids speak.
Tony: Other people are more email and people. Exactly.
Dominic: I love to just go for walks. And for me, there's something about walking, getting outside, being in nature. Resting. And as I walk, he kind of keeps my mind more alert and more focused. I love to talk out loud sometimes. Not always, depending on who's there, but if there's no one around just speaking out loud, whether it's a Psalm or speak out my prayers to the Lord and then actively listening to the spirit, to what he wants to say, and then writing down thoughts, you know, my notes app on my iPhone.
I just have a section where. Things, I think God put I'm putting on my heart or verses that are [00:23:00] convicting or things I need to change or someone I need to encourage or whatever. So having kind of a running list of what God is showing you can be really helpful to.
Tony: You know, the, there seems to be a connection in your writing The that between soul formation and hope.
I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about that. Like how much is hope a part of what we need to do for kind of our soul therapy and, and where do we start with that process?
Dominic: Wow. Yeah, that's a really interesting, interesting question. They are, they are connected you know, the New York times a few months ago.
They have this really fascinating article describing sort of the emotional state of our nation and the word they use caught my eye, or they use the word languishing. They talked about how in this moment [00:24:00] at our, at a soul level, W w we're in this place of stagnation or despair, even language and language is a term.
We don't hear that often. It's a term that, you know, years ago used to be used a lot more, but when you look into the etymology of. What's interesting is languishing is not just the sense of being lonely or a drift around a place. It's also a state of longing. In fact, some poets, they would actually use that term to describe a longing that was in their heart for a loved one.
And so I make the argument in chapter one that. What if the languishing we're experiencing as a culture and it's true, we are. I mean, you look at the percent of people who are hurting. 75% are stressed. 72% are exhausted. 48% say they're hopeless. 67% say they're lonely. Some wonder the New York times uses [00:25:00] this word languishing.
But the question I ask is what lies beneath the language. W what does the languishing point to, what are our souls really crying out for? And it's not more material things. It's not more comfort. It's not any of the external stuff necessarily how our own culture would define flourishing by the way, the languishing that we're collectively experiencing is actually a deeper longing.
For more of the presence of God. And this is where the word hope comes in. There's a desire. There's a Psalm 63 kind of ethos to it. Oh God, you're my God early. I seek you my soul. Languishes for you. Right? My soul longs for you and a dry and weary land where there is no water. It's why I called the book.
Your longing has a name because what are we [00:26:00] longing for? Ultimately. We're longing for the only one who can heal us and restore us and make us new.
Tony: Hey, everybody just pausing this conversation with Dominic to remind you about the spirit and truth podcast network. If you haven't checked out all the different resources that spirit and truth has to offer.
Do me a favor head over to spirit and truth.life. Take a look at the podcast network, take a look at the ministry, subscribed to firebrand our theological magazine. And Hey, if you're interested this podcast and all of our podcasts on the network are 100% listener supported. That means that we rely on donations like yours to help keep the ministry.
So if you'd like to make a donation to a worthwhile ministry, go to spirit and truth.life/give spirit and truth slash life, spirit and truth.life/give and donate today. Now let's finish up this conversation with Dominic. D do you think that we've kind of. [00:27:00] Put God in a box when it comes to this kind of longing, because it's not very often that you hear people talk about just being with the Lord, right?
Like we, we typically want to do things for the Lord, but it feels like kind of this idea, this kind of whole. Our cultural hearts, so to speak can only be filled by God. What are your thoughts on the, on the disconnect between, you know, chilling with Jesus and, and just kind of figuring out all these action steps to do to try.
Fill that hole is that, does that make sense? That was a kind of a poorly worded question, but that's kind of, I'm feeling a lot of tension there about like me and nobody just talks about being with God.
Dominic: Yeah. Yeah. I it's one of the reasons why I shy away from simply using the word practices or disciplines and they're very [00:28:00] helpful words.
I use them in the book, but. I tend to gravitate more towards the word gift. In second Peter one, which is what the book is revolves around these seven gifts that God has given us for our soul to flourish. Kind of the traditional way to approach virtue lists like that. Even the phrase, virtuous is very Aristotle and Les Paul or Jesus, but these virtue lists, whether it's the gifts of the spirit or the second Peter one, we've tended to approach those as if here are disciplines you have to do in order for God to bless.
I don't look at it that way. I look at it as here's gifts. God has made available to you if we open our heart and soul to receive them. Right. So it's being with Jesus. That's a key. I think of the disciples. I was just reading this actually in mark, where, when Jesus first called the disciples, he called them for two reasons.[00:29:00]
Number one, be with. And number two preach, and I always get the order reversed. Right? I always think it's about what we do, the accomplishments we make and sermons to prepare the book or whatever that the things we do for Jesus. But the doing flows come from flows from the being. It's why Psalm one the, the image of the.
It is so apt here because we're called to be the tree that's planted and rooted by the rivers of living water. Of course, as, as echoes of the gospel of John, where Jesus says, believe in me, out of your inner, most being well Gus for torrents of living water. And it's the roots of our soul are pressed down deep into him.
The fruit from our life naturally begins to flow. Now, obviously. Our practices and disciplines important. Yes. That, that focus, tenacity, the willingness to take one small step after another putting boundaries and barriers in our lives. So we can be more focused are [00:30:00] absolutely essential, but again, it flows from a place of intimacy with God.
I'm more convinced than ever that our entire spiritual formation really revolves around the wellspring of life, which is being with Jesus. Spending time with, with Jesus and letting him form and shape us in.
Tony: I imagine that there's somebody listening, who is like, oh, okay. Pastor Dom, like I get it. You want me to spend time with Jesus and receive this gift? I don't have an extra hour in the morning to do that. I don't even know if I've ever done it before. We don't talk about it. On Sunday morning, all the pastor ever talks about is, you know, community service or whatever.
If you were talking to that one person, what's the very first thing they can do to kind of open their hearts, to receive the gift, to receive the [00:31:00] gift.
Dominic: Yeah. That's such a good question because, you know, in second Peter one, it says, make your calling and election. Sure. And the, the actual language behind that verse is the idea of being invited.
In fact, the same language was used in the ancient. To describe someone being invited into something. So when it comes to our own life and how we schedule it, and two, we make time to, to be with Jesus. It really is kind of an intentional. The decision that we make and God meets us in there. He's invited us, but we have to respond to that invitation.
That's why Jesus said, come to me when you're weary and heavy-laden, I will give you rest. I'm here, I'm available. And so I think it just means rearchitecting the structure of our life the rhythms of our life, so that we can get time in our schedule. To be with Jesus blocking out times. It can start in the smallest ways.
Maybe [00:32:00] someone listening to this as like, I never get time to be with Jesus. Okay. Start here before you get out of your car to step into the office or get on the zoom meeting, whatever the case may be. Say, you know, I'm going to take a minute and just be with Jesus right now. I'm going to breathe. I'm that opened my heart to his voice.
I'm gonna read a scripture or two, just starting in very small and subtle ways. And what happens is it generates a desire, desire begets desired. And the more we lean into that, the more we spend time with them, the more the desire begins to grow. And you're like, I, I want to spend five minutes today. And then a year later it's like, oh, I'm spending 30 minutes a day now with the Lord.
Right. And I think that's the by-product of love when you're in love with someone you want to be with them, right. Time is the currency of love. So. If you are in love with Jesus, as Augustine said, you know, when we order our loves, the love grows. [00:33:00] And as we spend time with him, you'll want to spend more time with him.
Tony: Do you think that the world that we live in today, as far as technology D do you have an, I know you kind of talk a little about this in the book, in terms of the impact that technology has on just grabbing our attention. You have any thoughts or, or practical tips on how to navigate some of that in a more Kind of in a way that, that honors the fact that we all have cell phones and yet we live in this tension relationship, tensions relationship with them about how often they, they screen for our.
Dominic: It's crazy. It is crazy how much we are distracted. I was talking to my wife about this last night, actually. And we're talking about kind of how our brains nowadays have been Googled. Maybe at one point there was a greater ability to, to stop and process and [00:34:00] reason and think even in a linear way. Now it's just like our neurons are fireworks, being distracted and pulled and you know, everything's fast moving.
Everything's changing Blaise Pascal. He once said, this is under it's of years ago, but so prophetic. He said man's unhappiness Springs from one thing alone, his incapacity to stay quietly in one room. And you think about how true that is right now. You know, we're so used to the noise stimuli meetings, endless access to texts and emails, social media, Netflix.
Pausing sometimes can feel like torture, right? Like, because they're so distracted and so pulled in a myriad of directions to even get our mind to settle down. It's hard and I've found this sometimes just even the [00:35:00] process of writing or picking up a new book to read. If I've had a busy day where I'm kind of distracted or spending too much time online, social media, whatever.
It's hard for my brain even just to breathe again. Right. I, I love the illustration. Of the river jar and in my office at work in Portland, I had this a river jar and it was a reminder to me of the importance of staying still. When I say river jar was literally a jar that I went down to a nearby river and they scooped it up and put it in my office.
And the bottom was a bunch of silt and sediment and dead dock bugs and dysentery, who knows what else was in there? When that jar sits still. There's a clarity that emerges because all the blurring debris slowly sinks to the bottom, but when I'm shaking it up and moving it around the whole time, it's clouded, it's obscure.
I think the same thing can happen in our soul when we're too busy. [00:36:00] Too distracted to pull by all these things that are dying for our attention. It's like there's a cloudiness in our soul and inability to think clearly to hear the voice of God, to know what's going on in our soul, the health of our soul to, to have a sense of calling and where we're going.
And so this is why the word of God encourages us. Be still be still know that I'm God. I like to read that as be still, and then you will know I am gone. It's not until I'm still that I can see clearly again it's until we wait and rest and intentionally choose to sit at the feet of Jesus that we find the clarity that our souls yearn and need in order to be spiritually formed in the image of Jesus.
Tony: Yeah. One of the things that God's really been working on me on recently is that being still as an act of worship, like it's an act of [00:37:00] obedience to him, like, and, and, and Psalm 46 there that you referenced, like it's being still in it. And then it says, and I will be exalted among the nations. Like even in the midst of the chaos that the Psalm has paints there.
I love that idea. And I think it's, it's so important. This stillness leads to kind of this idea of, of what we're doing in terms of soul formation. How important is it to, to. I didn't want to, I don't want to say like men or heal our soul, but how important is it to do this kind of soul work for somebody who maybe has always taken a, a super practical approach to their faith?
I'm thinking of a government worker here who is, who grew up in the church and, you know, they go every Sunday and they're super dutiful, but maybe they lack the intimacy of the soul stuff that you're kind of talking about how to take that next step and, and kind of [00:38:00] what's the fruit on the other side.
Dominic: Oh man.
Wow. Such a good question. Our, our soul is everything. You know, th the spiritual writer, Thomas Moore, he once said that the great malady of the modern age is loss of soul. And if that's true, that's a more harrowing diagnosis than we may realize, because if our soul is flourished, Then nothing we go through can destroy us.
But if our soul is crumbling than nothing we go through can heal us. The health of our soul shapes the outcome of our life. And this is why scripture. Urges us to attend to the health of our soul. So I, Jesus said, what good does it profit? You can gain the whole world. You lose your soul, you have nothing.
This is why we're encouraged guard our soul watch over our soul. What is our soul? Well, it's this beautiful Hebrew word , [00:39:00] which is the deepest part of us that longs to connect with God and. If that's broken and let's face it, we can all fake that. We're okay for awhile. But meanwhile, there's something going on inside us that we know isn't right.
That's dysfunctional, that's broken, that's out of sync with the heart of God and we can fake it for a little while. But sooner or later what's in us will erupt out of us. You know, when I lived in Hawaii, I learned about the volcanoes and the big island, especially it has an active volcano that a few years ago, erupted what's interesting is volcanoes.
They have like these they're like veins that kind of run into the earth, these lava tubes. I don't know if you've ever seen those. They can be huge, massive, massive lava tubes. And then they fill up with LABA. And what happens is that the pressure begins to build and build and build into eventually, it just, it needs to break out somewhere.
And so a few years ago it was [00:40:00] in the news. There was this eruption and these fires are breaking out in all these different places because the lava had built up all this pressure. That's now destroying homes and breaking through the surface and, you know, running through neighborhoods. It's crazy. And the same thing can happen in our life.
If there are unresolved issues, if there are things that we have not yet really tackled or addressed or acknowledged or confessed to confess from the pressure starts to build. Everything looks like paradise on the surface. Like we're all good. And we go to church and we put on the happy face and sing the songs or whatever.
We could even be walking through the spiritual practices and going through the motions that way. But deep down, if there's something that needs to be addressed sooner or later what's in us will come out of us and like lava the outcome can be. Pretty devastating can lead to burnout, right? It can destroy homes and families and marriages.
And [00:41:00] so this, this is why the Lord says attend to your soul guard your heart. Look, look at what God is wanting to do in the inner life so that we can be the people he's called this.
Tony: That's beautifully stated and I think really important. So I have one more question for you, but before I ask it, I know that my listeners are going to want to connect with you all over the interwebs. Where is the best place to find you and to learn more about what God is doing through you and your.
Dominic: Absolutely. Yeah. So our website is pursuing faith.org. And on there you have links to the books and the podcast and ways to contact us. Some of the speaking events also social media you can just reach out at Dominic don't and I'm Instagram or Twitter a little bit on Facebook as well. So yeah, that'd be the best way.
I'd love to hear from anyone. Any thoughts or feedback, or just want to connect a B being [00:42:00] privileged to hear from.
Tony: Great. And we'll, we'll put all that in the show notes, make it super easy, feel free to just check them out and get connected with them. Okay. Last question. I always love to ask people.
It's an advice question, and I'm going to ask you to give yourself one piece of advice, except I get the name, the, the kind of the time and season of your life when you need to hear it. And so I'm going to take you back to your. Your very first Sunday where you're serving as the lead pastor in Portland, Oregon.
So seven, eight years ago now almost probably. And.
Kind of you just finished your first Sunday, it's Sunday afternoon, you preached a great message. And I like to imagine you pulling up in front of yourself, a younger version of yourself kind of just sitting knee to knee with them. If you could look them in the eyes and give them one piece of advice what would it be?
Dominic: Oh man, [00:43:00] that is a that's beautifully asked and. It's an interesting question. Leave while you can. No, I'm just kidding.
I wish, you know, it's, it's something I think about often when I look back at the earlier years of ministry have fun with it. I think sometimes we overanalyze. We, you know, I, I. I would spend hours and hours and hours preparing and going over the sermon. And there was even a time in my ministry where I would teach through the sermon in order to memorize it in my own room, go through it 5, 6, 7 times.
And, and I think there's something to that, like for preparation is so important. It's so key. But sometimes in the midst of that, Lose the joy of it. I would say just barely self have fun with it. Don't worry about, you know, I tend to be a perfectionist and just want [00:44:00] everything to be well-crafted and just, just have fun connect with the people because at the end of the day, that for any pastor listening, I'm sure you can relate.
The stats are pretty depressing on what people really remember. I think it's like 85% of what you share is forgotten within an hour. It's usually forgotten by the time they drive out in the parking lot and they're on their way to five guys or something. And what was that sermon about? Well, I, I think I remember that story or whatever And sometimes we take our sermons too seriously that we can just miss the wonder and beauty of being with people, connecting with people, looking them in the eye, praying with them, loving with them, walking with them, through what they're, what they're dealing with.
So I would encourage myself be more present. Don't get too caught up in how well-crafted the sermons are just love. People. Look at how Jesus loved people. He would walk through a field and he talk about birds and how [00:45:00] they taught him. About not worrying and life and the world was his classroom, right?
That's how Jesus taught people and just the ability to breathe. And that comes through the presence of God and loving people, being ourselves, finding our voice, letting God's spirit take over, don't be overly attached to your sermon notes or whatever, because at the end of the day, what people, what will impact people's lives.
It's not the words we say, but the love that we show.
Tony: Amen. Amen. That's beautiful. That's a good word. That's a really good word. Tom, thank you so much for being so generous with your time today and for your wisdom and for pouring your heart and soul into this book. And I can't wait to see it out in the wilderness and bless so many.
Dominic: Thank you so much.
Tony: I appreciate Dominic's voice around soul formation and how important it is to kind of pause and identify and look at.
In a [00:46:00] new way. He's a deep heart. He's clearly done his homework and I'm so thankful for this opportunity to connect with him. So do me a favor, go follow him on all the socials. Make sure you told them, tell them that you heard him here on the recommendation podcast. And again, I just want to thank you for being a part of this.
Hit that subscribe button. So you don't miss future episodes. And do me a favor, share this episode with a friend. I can't wait to connect with you guys. I'm praying for you. And remember if you want to follow Jesus, you must be willing to move.
