#83: Jack Eason: The Loneliness Solution
Jack Eason wants to banish the spirit of loneliness that is killing your spirit. This season of Christmas can lead to serious loneliness, but there are things you can do right now to battle back. Jack is an incredible communicator who uses humor and real-life examples to help connect with his audience. I know you'll enjoy this conversation!
Read the Full Conversation Below
EP. 83 Jack Eason
Tony: Hey everyone. Welcome back to the reclamation podcast, where our goal is to help you reclaim good practices for faith and life. Today is episode 83 of the podcasts. And I get to sit down with pastor author and thought leader, Jack Easten, Jack and I dive into the topic of loneliness, which feels super on brand for 2020, especially heading into the holidays when seasonal loneliness is at an all time high.
Some of the things we talk about today is the role of social media. In loneliness, we talk about isolation and disconnectedness and what that means and looks like we've talked about how the world is basically set up so that we can be all alone now in the midst of COVID, that is really important, but it doesn't give us the excuse, not to chase down authentic, real relationships.
I know you're going to love this conversation with Jack, and if you do love the conversation, the best compliment you can give us is to share this episode with a friend. Let somebody know, Hey, I listened to this and it made an impact on me, or I really thought about what they had to say or Jack's amazing.
You know, those are the kinds of things that are always worth sharing. Also, don't forget. We're trying to get to a hundred reviews by the end of the year. I think as, me recording this. Yes, we are almost at 50. So you could be the one to send us over to 50. And if you encourage your friends, we can get to a hundred, no problem.
Leave a rating or review. It really does make a difference in helping people find the podcast. So without any further ado, here's my conversation with Jack Easton. Hey everybody. Welcome back to the podcast. I'm here with a pastor author speaker Jack. Ease-in from South Carolina, Jack. Welcome to the podcast.
Hey, we can hear today.
Jack: Hey man. It's great to be here. Thank you for having me on this is awesome.
Tony: now we, we were talking a little bit before, before we record. And in this past year has been a crazy year for you. In addition to your, your book coming out, you also, stepped into a role as a pastor of a local church.
what what's this year of COVID been like for you as both an author and a pastor.
Jack: Well, who saw that coming? Right? Meanwhile, if somebody told me this was coming down, the pike I'd have gone. Oh, okay. God, I'm not sure. This is because you speaking to me that maybe it's bad pizza that I had last night. but yeah, it's been, it's been obviously different.
I mean, wow. I was thinking Tony, have we ever, I don't think we've ever been at a place like this in history, with what's going on in the world of pandemic and of course the need for people for connectivity. so it it's been, it's been interesting. It's been an interesting ride, but, God's still in charge even in the midst of what seems like chaos.
Tony: Amen. And, I don't know about you, but I'm counting on it.
Jack: If not, we're all in trouble.
Tony: you know, but it's also amazing to me how, how much I can see God in your writing for such a time as this, because I don't think ever in my life have I heard the word quarantine or isolation or, so much as I had, I have in the last several months.
And, and yet at this time period, you've got this writing coming out. All about loneliness. And so, one of, one of the stats that you wrote about that, that absolutely jumped out to me is that only 53% of people engage in meaningful daily face-to-face. Social interactions. So I have two questions. First of all, I find that as an extrovert, I find that incredibly like that shatters my entire earth.
And second of all, how did you, how did you get called to this kind of ministry about writing about
Jack: loneliness? Yeah. Well, I mean the first, the first thing is, yeah. I'm with you on the statistic. mind boggling my mind boggling, w when it looks as if we are very, very connected and we are. digitally, how could we not have meaningful conversations or connections?
yeah, I'm with you. It boggles my mind, you know, I really, the initial thought of kind of writing this book was, what I have discovered, personally, and in, in ministry, about connection and about community, the value of community and how important, how important it is. I mean, the scripture talks all about the power of community and friendships and relationships.
So initially my, my pitch, so to speak to the publisher was I want to write a book about the power of community. And you read about that, all throughout the Bible, but especially, the book of acts, the early church talks about the power of community. And so they said, Hey, that's good. let us think about it.
They thought about it. They came back a few weeks later and said, we we've got a question. Maybe we need to ask before we talk about community, because the power of being together and all that is true, but are we together? And I'm like, Hmm. That's a great question. Are we together? Cause it looks like we're together, but we're not together.
So man, I started doing research and finding out, you know, this is, this is before COVID, you know, this was before the coronavirus that we are not a connected people. at all, loneliness was an epidemic before the pandemic. some people have said, man, you were so smart to start writing this book before the pandemic.
How did you know this is going to happen? No, no, not even that smart. but loneliness is an issue before was an issue before COVID, it's an issue obviously now because of the virus stuff going on restrictions and all that. And Hey, honestly, it'll be an issue after the virus has gone because we're flawed people and we're, we're substituting maybe some counterfeit connections, for the real thing, unfortunately.
Tony: Do you, have, have you experienced seasons of loneliness in your own life? Is this, I mean, how much of this writing? I know it's, it's almost near impossible to write about something that you don't have a connection with. So I guess I'm kind of interested what's, what's your connection to, to loneliness
Jack: and man.
Great, great question. I probably am connected on at least three different levels. and it's three different groups that I kind of address in the book. I mean, I think loneliness affects every age group. but the first age group it affects the most are they 18 to 24 year olds who are seemingly the most connected on the face of the planet in history.
And yet they're disconnected and, and, I have a heart for that generation. So I have a lot of friends that are in that age group. And so they have talked to me over the last few years about, feeling disconnected and maybe I'll even tried this church and ain't been there, done that. So their lack of real, really having connection is one.
the second group that I write about are the elderly. those who've had a spouse maybe for 30 or 40 years when they pass away. And so now they find themselves, what am I supposed to do in the morning? I've been waking up beside my spouse for 40 years, and now she, or he's not there. my, my parents are getting to that age.
they have health issues, so I know I'll be addressing some of that in the future. Not looking forward to that at all. and then the other group is the group that I fall in. And you fall in it's pastors and ministry leaders who are lonely because, you know, I had a church member asked me this the other day, and I thought, finally, somebody is asking this question and they said, who's your pastor?
Who do you go to when you're lonely? And I'm like, ah, that's a great question. So, I mean, yeah, loneliness for me is, I'm seeing it every day because of those three age groups and, it's rampant in our world. if we just kind of stopped for a minute and see it, we'll recognize it pretty quickly.
Tony: Now we of, one of the things that you kind of do in the book is you, you define loneliness.
And so I was really hoping that you could kind of give us that broad, kind of definition so that we're all jumping off on the same page as we kind of dive into this topic a little bit more intentionally.
Jack: Yeah. Well, and it is an interesting definition because I was talking to a friend the other day and they, they asked me that.
That very question. How do you define loneliness? Because, there's not a, a real way to gauge loneliness in our culture. I mean, you know, we can gauge a weight cause we have scales and we can figure out BMI because we have all the little pinch devices, you know, at the gym, people use to figure that out, but loneliness, how do you measure?
How do you know if somebody's got it or somebody doesn't have it and in loneliness is really it's this overwhelming sadness or feeling of isolation. And disconnectedness. And so it can happen. The hard part too, is it can happen. You can be, you can be lonely and be in a room full of people. you can be lonely.
You can be by yourself. It's different than being alone. I don't know about, about you Tony. Cause you're an extrovert. I'm an extrovert, but there are times I'm around people so often. That I want to be alone. Leave me alone. I was working, I go,
Tony: my wife and I had to create a, I had to create a code that, that, you know, like I I'm done peopling for the day.
Like I'm out. Like I can, I got, I got an, and it's usually, it's usually Sunday I preach. And then we do some sort of lunch, which I love, and I love being around the family, but then I'm like, I am, I need to get out. I'm done. I'm I'm getting ready to be unpleasant.
Jack: Yeah, and that, and that's cool. Cause we all need times to be alone.
I mean, even Jesus needed time to be alone, but that's different than being lonely because you don't have to be alone to feel lonely. a lot of the research I was doing when I was writing this, I've just pick a different coffee shop locally and try to go to some places and support some local coffee shops.
And it's funny, I'd be sitting in there with my laptop writing and I'd see groups of three or four people sitting at different tables, but none of them were talking to each other. They were still, you know, in their own little cubicle, so to speak. and many of them looked very lonely even though they were with people.
So you don't have to be alone to be, to be lonely
Tony: as I was looking at some of your stuff. One of the things that, I was reminded of is that I was in the army for a number of years and the loneliest place I ever remember being is when I'm, when I was in basic training at night. it was an exhausting day.
It was physically and mentally and spiritually exhausting. And I remember laying in the bunks, the top bunk of Fort Jackson, South Carolina, actually. And, your home state.
Jack: Yeah, I know where that is
Tony: being serious by, a barrage of snores. And, and almost in tears, because I just felt so alone. Right. Is that the kind of loneliness that you're talking about?
Jack: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's almost crushing. It's almost like a physical way. It's crushing you and it's almost people have described it almost like they're in this box and it's sealed up and they're trying to break out of this box and, you know, people feel it different different ways and they try to come up with remedies.
For loneliness that sometimes are healthy too, because of that feeling. But yeah, I mean, it's, it's isolated, feeling insulated. I was telling somebody, earlier, insulation is a good thing. I mean, wintertime is coming to South Carolina, which we're, we're grateful for because summertime's here unbearable.
So we're grateful for the cooler weather, but we're also grateful for insulation can be a good thing. We're grateful that we have insulation to keep the heat in. But sometimes installation can be a bad thing if you're preventing the good stuff to get in. And, that, that sometimes is a part of loneliness too.
We feel insulated or isolated. How do I let the good stuff in and let the bad stuff stay out? And, it, it takes a lot to think through some of those things.
Tony: So w what's the difference between, loneliness as you see it, and some of the more like prolonged mental health issues that we see, so often in the world that we live in today, I mean, people are dealing with anxiety and the bipolar and you know, all of that.
The disorders. and I'm sure you see it in your ministry too. It feels more just cope. Coping mechanisms are so hard. Right. And I feel like the high schools need to teach coping mechanisms, but, all that aside, how do you delineate between like, okay, I've got a loneliness issue or maybe I'm wrestling with something a little bit greater in the mental health world.
Jack: Yeah. That's, that's a good question. I don't know that I'm an expert necessarily to speak on that, but I do think loneliness is connected to a lot of those things. It's sometimes lonely spurs on those other issues, because if I'm lonely, okay, what do I do? Because I'm lonely. Okay. I might eat. So then all of a sudden I'm overeating.
So then I've got another issue are I might not eat and then I've got another issue or I may do things like self harm. I mean, there's all kinds of things. I think loneliness is, is the root of a lot of those mental health issues. I guess I would say to your question that people are facing is that sometimes it goes back to the loneliest, our lack of real connection, with people.
Well, one of the guys I, I read, I don't, I don't know if you've come across this quote yet in the book, there's a guy named drew Hunter and, and he's been in ministry as well for a while. And one of the things he said, when I, when I read it, Tony, I was like, okay, This guy is a heretic, because one of the things that he said was, you know, the first problem with mankind was not sin.
And I'm thinking, okay, who is this guy? he said, the first problem with mankind was solitude. And so I'm like, okay, so I'm going to the book of Genesis and I'm reading through there and sure enough, you know, when I actually pay attention and study, it says, you know, the Bible says that there that, it was not good for man to be alone.
So God created him a companion, obviously woman, which in the family, which grew out of that, which was the beginnings of community. So when I read that, I'm thinking, wow, I mean, this idea of community is, is not, it's not far. And it's actually in the heart of God that he designed us to have community with one another.
And, the power of that, I think. To your point, well, will, help us prevent some of these other mental health issues if we had real good community and connectivity. And I mean, along with that comes. I mean, even things as simple you, and I would say it's simple, someone else listening or watching may go, ah, I don't know about that.
That's simple. Not, but things like accountability and not just spiritual accountability. I joined a gym a couple of years ago just because I was traveling a lot and running through the airport and I was, I'm starting to realize, okay, I put on a few pounds, I got to do something and just the accountability of a trainer in a gym.
I told him, and he was a believer. I said, man, there's a, there's a spiritual principle here. With you checking in with me saying, are you showing up today or did you do this, or did you eat this this week? that accountability helped me grow and that, and that had to be based in community and relationship.
So I, man, I just, I agree with you. I think so many issues that kinda run off the wire and cause chaos in our lives come back to a lack of real connection because we're, we were lonely.
Tony: I love that. And, and it, for me, it models so much of what, I'm a huge fan of which is intentional. Disciple-making right in intentional community.
And it's not just like, it's different than just being a friend, but it's being an intentional friend who cares about the heart and the soul of a person, which is a lot of what I see you're writing about. Let's dive into the obvious, Thing that we want to blame. And which would you talk a little bit about in the book, which is social media and that, could you share a little bit about your research there and the stats that you found that I found where I was really surprised by some of the stats there and the connection?
Jack: Yeah. Well, I mean, I, I, it is obvious social media and that's kind of the first thing that most of us would point out and go, okay, this has maybe. Part of the problem and it is part of the problem, not the only part of the problem, but it is part of the problem. and I, and I, and I think what we, what we have done, I have done this too, is we have in our culture and by the way, maybe this is a good disclaimer.
Culture has a great, way of. shaping our mind and our thinking, unfortunately, and because of the culture in which we live with social media, and connectivity, it's very hard. You have to be very, I like your word, very intentional to not let that be how you measure your friendships and relationships because you're right.
Social media is a, is a big thing. I don't, I don't think social media is evil and it's bad. I think you can use it as a, as a tool for good, but, You know, I've got, I've got, I don't know what it is. 3000 silver, many Facebook friends. That by the way, I can add and subtract at will with a mouse click. Okay.
Which tells me they're probably not the level of friendship that really matters to anything, but very few of them. Can I call it 2:00 AM in the morning? If I have a need, especially spiritual, you didn't say, Hey, can you come over to my house? And pray, there may be five or six. It would show up. Sure, but that just tells me that in society, I think what social media might be doing is creating a false sense of worth of self worth.
I felt sense of connectivity, so I don't think it's bad. And, but we've gotta be, we gotta be very careful, because, You know that that can be a Mar a marker, a scorecard for us. It's not a good scorecard to track as far as do we have real relationships where it really comes to, and you, you said it is intentionally a disciple-making and building relationships with people, a flesh and blood people that can actually help us, help us grow.
So, you know, I like social media, but. take it with a grain of salt, right?
Tony: Well, so let me ask you this right profession, similar to I am that is about content creation, right? And so we're trying to preach the gospel. We're trying to make disciples and all of that requires time thought and study if you know, if we're doing it well, you know, yeah.
How do you, so, and I would suggest that there's probably a lot more jobs today that keep us lonely and isolated than, than maybe ever before. W what boundaries have you put in your life? Kind of like what kind of practical applications do you put in your life to prevent you from? Like, I mean, cause.
Netflix, Instagram for me, Facebook, all of those places, even my podcast and blog. And I, I love, you know, I love connecting with guys like you, but at the end of the day, like, I mean, this is our first time talking. We're not to the point yet. We're, you know, we're, we're sharing sins, you know, like w how do you, how do you practically put boundaries in place?
So you don't get trapped in your, in your work, even if it's good work. And isolate yourself.
Jack: Hmm. Wow, man. That's good. If you figure that out, write that book and I'll write that, man. It's hard. It's hard. And that's a great question. And it is hard because he, even the publisher, you know, one of the things that they asked me and they asked.
You know, I've done a lot of self pub books. This is the first one with a traditional publisher and I'm grateful for them. They're awesome. Folks. The folks at Revelle are awesome, but one of the questions they asked is, okay. Tell us about your bef before they agreed to do the book. Tell us about your social media platform and how many people do you have and how many people are on your email list.
And I get it. I get it. That's that's important stuff, but again, it's almost pushing you mentally to think the wrong way. So, so for me, as far as boundaries, and this is going to sound really cliche and spiritual. And, and I would say at the get go, I don't always pull this off. So, so for those listening, don't don't think, wow.
I wish I could be like him. Don't don't be like me be like, Jesus. I'm not even, I'm not even as good as Paul to say, be like me because I am being like Jesus, I'm trying. Yeah. But, but, you know, our first connection has to be with Christ. And so, you know, if my day gets going and I'm jumping into your ride, I've got to create, keep content going out.
And luckily I have a great team too, that helps do that. But if I have the end of the day, I've done all the content stuff, but I haven't really fed my soul with the first connection with Jesus. Then, then I'm, I'm setting myself up for, for big time failure. and again, that's easier said than done because the pressures of, of.
ministry and connecting with people, that is a part, especially if it's a passion, and it's a calling, and you're wired that way by God, then, man, you're just, you're driven to do those things. so it's hard for, for, for me. I guess the way I would answer that I, that I try to accomplish the, the right kind of boundaries and guardrails guidelines is kind of going back to what we're talking about.
It's. Real human beings, physical human beings, not digital. and they're digital things you can do to protect yourself too, from the internet and all that, which are good. But there are human beings that I know I've got about four. that check in with me because they love me. And, and they're not, they're not members of my church, at least not yet.
these four, but they can call me and check in on me, say, Hey man, how's it going? How are you in Jesus doing? You spent time with him. I know you got this book coming out and you're doing blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm seeing it all over the internet, but, but how has your first connection. And, and I appreciate that.
And again, those relationships didn't happen overnight, just like the 3000 plus people I'm talking about on my Facebook, who really, I don't know a lot about those people. Th these relationships happen over time and, and challenge, and, not always agreeing, you know, arguing things out in love and agreeing to disagree in love.
And, Man, you get my brain spinning. Cause there's so much stuff I could say there. You know, I look at what's going on in our world now and, and it, and it grieves me of the divisiveness of, because I was telling our church Sunday, I said some of the people with whom I disagree, if I can come across being a being matter of fact, but not angry.
I might actually learn something from them, even though I don't, even though I don't agree with him, I might learn something that will help me. And I see our culture just, that may be a different question, but. Ah, relationships are critical. I mean, they're critical, and critical to helping us grow and critical to helping us stay in check when it comes to balancing things, in our lives.
Tony: No, I selfishly I love that. You said you've got about four guys. Cause, one of the things that my mentor challenged me on is to. Tied my week in disciple-making relationships. Right. And so if you're putting in 40 hour week, what's your time look like? So it'd be free. So there's four guys a week that I generally try to connect with on, on, because it's so easy to be working in ministry that you don't actually ever do any ministry,
Jack: you know?
And
Tony: it's just, and I, and I think that's probably true for a lot of jobs, right? Is that you can be around all of these people all the time and never actually be connecting with people. and hear their heart and hear their soul. you know, we, we talked a little bit about culture. You know, we, we live in a door dash kind of Amazon.
I mean, you, you can literally not leave your house. And I, I think there was a reality television show once about it. how are you encouraging people? As you do the work of, of breaking this kind of loneliness culture, how are you encouraging them to get into their communities and, and break through some of the, some of the temptation.
I mean, they're not even bad things. Like, I don't think door dash is a horrible thing. Like it might contribute to my obesity a little bit, but like, And the Amazon driver has become a really nice family friend. You know what I mean? Like, whatever. Right. But, how are we encouraging people to, to break through the loneliness barrier,
Jack: especially, especially during, you know, the pandemic and COVID and all that.
We're grateful for those types of things. You're describing Amazon door dash and all those. And to your point, there, there are. and I think I referred to a couple of in the book. There are companies, I don't know if any are in America, in the States yet, but there are overseas companies, China, other parts of world Europe, that, are checking on people.
You know, by phone, I would imagine, or text or whatever, who have just said, decided I'm going to stay at home. There's no reason to even leave my house. I can get everything I need delivered. And so they're, they're living alone lives, lonely lives too, by just staying inside. Why should I leave? I've got everything, you know, that I need right here can deliver it to the door.
but you're missing human connection if you do that. So, I think culture, I think you're right, Amazon. You know, Uber door dash, all those things. I think, I think too, it's interesting as we get, as we think we get smarter, culturally, some of the, the things that we come up with maybe are actually more detriment, mental long-term to our health.
Then, then we realize, you know, to your point, I was telling my wife, the other day I left the house. I took dry cleaning, went to the bank, went to get food. One, a couple other places, never got out of my car. Never got out of my car because we have door dash microwave, fast food mentality. and the challenge with that is we transfer that over into relationships.
And think to your point earlier, I can build a relationship really quick that that's the person I clicked. Boom. Okay. There, my friend on Facebook, Instagram have hearted their little posts. They're there. We're great friends. No, no, you, you, you have a false sense of connection. And, and then Tony, you know, this is true.
And we see this, you know, in our churches and ministries. When all of a sudden that person that we didn't know, unfortunately, was lonely takes, the wrong alternative to finding a way out of that box. We were talking about earlier, maybe it's suicide or whatever, and we all go, Oh, what happened? What happened?
Well, what happened was they didn't have connect connection. They didn't have human connection. And, It's it's scary. I mean, th the continued growth and evolution of our culture on some of these things that you mentioned, you know, there's excitement on one side of the coin and the other side of the coin, I'm going, Oh, what are we doing?
What are we doing? We're moving in the wrong direction. it's scary. It really is scary.
Tony: Ever thought I would be teaching my kids how to look someone in the eye to talk to them.
Jack: Yeah.
Tony: Like just, it's just not, it's just not something that I, yeah, we got like a 14 year old and a 10 year old and an eight year old.
And, one of the things that we actively try to practice is making our kids order their own. Food at, while we're out to eat so that they have to practice using their adult, using a real voice, not looking at whatever is on the table, whether that be the phone for the older one, or if the other two are playing on a tablet or whatever, you know, like, or we go to a restaurant now and they hand out tablets, you know, some of the local sports bars, Which as a parent, I'm not always mad about.
I'm going to be honest, you know, but, but, but it's rather the cultural shift is real. And, and I think it's important for us to battle that, you mentioned your wife and I, and I, I saw the dedication to her in the very beginning and it, you wrote some very lovely things about her and she's an author as well, which is super cool.
tell me about loneliness and marriage. And, and how, how you've seen that in your studies and, and what's that look like? And I don't mean to imply that you and your wife have a loneliness in your marriage, but, but how do you stay connected and avoid loneliness is probably the best way to ask that.
Jack: Yeah. W well, thanks man. Yeah, I gave her a great, it was a pretty romantic dedication. I'm still waiting on that to get the brownie points that I thought I would get from it, but so far, Not yet.
Tony: You know what? I should read it. I should read. It says how could I not dedicate my first published book to my inspiration for writing?
My wife and published author Lynette has encouraged me for many years to put my thoughts into book form. Thank you, sweetie. I dedicate this book to you
Jack: and I'm getting, teary-eyed just hearing you read it. Oh man. no. Hey, Hey, we, we, yeah, we've, we've definitely had times of, loneliness we're coming up on 25 years. We had a couple of years where we thought we were done. And most people who have been married that long will admit they've had at least once or they thought, all right, get out of here, pack your bags, sweetie.
I'm gone. but, and she, she is an author. She was, still is an author. She writes fiction. and she, she was, the inspiration of me. Finally, she's been bugging me for years about putting some thoughts down on paper, but you know, it goes back to the word you said earlier, and that's just being intentional and, You know, we have to be intentional when we're going to do things together.
Practically. I know you like practical stuff and I do too practically. We share a Google calendar. And so she sees an open Friday night, you know, of two hours. She goes in and, and marks it on my calendar and I do vice versa. And we sit down usually, even though we're connected and that's a digital connection, which we're using for good.
we'll still sit down, you know, once, once or twice a month and go, okay, Hey, what's coming up on the calendar. When can we sneak off for a night? Or when can we do this? Or when can we grab lunch? because in ministry or Adam ministry, and it doesn't really matter if you're in or out of ministry in life.
People will schedule your calendar. So you've either gotta be in charge of it or somebody else will be in charge of it. And they will dictate to you what you're going to do with your day. And then at the end of the day, it's like, wow, I didn't even say five words to my wife. And then the next week, I didn't say five words to her this week.
And then that's how the enemy takes that distance it's been created and starts to sew a discord in your, in your marriage. So for us, and we're not perfect, we still have have weeks where it's challenging. She travels a lot too. But we just have to be very intentional and, you know, thankfully you're going to get there too.
I just encourage you. Our kids are older now. My daughter just graduated from college. praise God. Did you hear the, the angels just started saying I, my, my son is a sophomore in college, so we both said the other day, we've got two more years and then we're going to feel like we're making an extra, you know, $5,000 a month that we're not paying to colleges and.
Where did they go?
Tony: Where did they go to school at? I'm always curious,
Jack: was it to Charleston at a college of Charleston? she loved it. She's, she's wanting to be, an attorney, and defend human trafficking victims as a result of all these years in the Dominican. So I'm proud of her. It's great. My son is a sophomore.
he is here in our County, but it's an hour actually from our home to the school. at North Greenville, university. And, and he's wanting to study business and the, both of them know the Lord. So I'm thankful for that. And I said, why do you want to study business? And he said, I want to make as much money as I can, so I can help as many people as I can.
It's okay. That's that's praise God. That's good. As long as you tack on the end of that part there. That's good. So, yeah, but so they're not around as much, so it's a little bit easier for Lynette and I, to grab time together. than it used to be. So, you know, for those of us who have kids still in the house, you just have to get really, really creative and, and again, intentional, because loneliness can happen, you know, it can happen to marriages.
It can happen with friends. It can happen in a faith community. It's that beast that you wish was not around, but it, but it is. Yeah.
Tony: One of the things that, that I. You write about is the sense of belonging versus fitting in as it pertains to your intentional community. Can you elaborate a little bit about on what's the difference and why is it important?
Jack: Yeah, I, it's not an original thought of mine again, just, just researching different people's take on it. you know, fitting in is you, you tweaking your behavior. Are your look, are you changing something about you? To fit in to group of people that's fitting in belonging is you walk into a room and you're accepted just as you are.
You don't change anything. And, You know, as now, as now a pastor, and, and since this is your heart tube, and I'll try not to get emotional here on you. Cause this, this, this really hits home. My heart is for people to find a sense of belonging, because I think for most people in the world, especially those that would point at the church or faith community say I've been there, done that.
Now you probably found a group of people that wanted you to fit in. And I heard another friend say, you know, it really should be, Belonging, believing behaving should be the order. So when you find a place that you really belong, you will start behaving the way, are believing what the scripture says about you.
And then you'll start behaving based on your belief, in what the scripture says about you, because you found a place to belong in a lot of churches, unfortunately, it's we want you to behave this way and then you can belong. Well, that's, that's not that's opposite of what the Bible teaches. How can you expect a lost person to behave like a safe person it's not going to happen?
Right. So, I mean, until they get the spirit of the Lord in them, it's not going to happen. So, you know, I've tried to teach our folks and, and even those that God sends my way in my life and friends, man, let's give people a place to belong because when they belong, they'll start believing what you say.
About Jesus. They'll start believing what Jesus says about himself. They'll start believing what the word says, and then they'll go, wow. I am a child of God. I need to start acting like a child of God. I need to start doing their behavior will change. drives me crazy that, that, not all churches by the way, but some churches and some Christians, try to get the behavior portion first.
And, it won't happen. That's like kind of putting the caboose of the train up front. it, it won't work. So, man, those are two big, big issues, I think just, and if people don't feel like they belong, guess what they're going to be. Yeah.
Tony: Yeah. I think actually one of the places that does this better than any.
most churches I see is, is the 12 step community, right. And in the 12 step community, it's just, Hey, come, as you are with all your brokenness, see what life could look like on the other side of the addiction. And, and maybe through it. a sponsor intentional relationship. And then maybe through all of that, it'll change a little bit.
And so, you know, I think those are our wise words that have been proven throughout time. You know, that that sense of belonging is so key. So let me ask you this, Jack, if, if somebody is listening to this right now and they're wrestling with loneliness, they're, they're feeling insulated and disconnected maybe from their family, maybe.
You know, maybe just from the world, w what are the next steps that they should take, for that sense of connection?
Jack: Yeah, well, I think the first, the next step would be you, you, you know, if you're in that position that you need connection, and, that's how God wired you and wired me is for connection.
And you may say, well, yeah, but, you know, I tried that and it didn't work, so I'm giving up and I would just say it to you. have you ever gone to a restaurant where you had bad service and bad food? And you probably would say, yeah. And I would say, do, did you go to another restaurant? And you would say, Oh yeah, I did.
I tried another restaurant. Same thing is true with the relationships. Or maybe even, maybe even a church you went to, or you say I walked in and I didn't get treated lighter. I didn't feel like I belong, man. Try it again. Try it again. I understand by saying that I'm asking you to be vulnerable. If you're in that position are to trust.
So I get it. And I would say, you're right. I am, it takes a degree of trust. But what I would also say is until you step out and step off of that ledge and trust, you're never going to experience the incredible, awesome gift and the benefits of being plugged into a community. And especially a faith community, not, not exclusively a faith community, because you can find some element, let's have things that will help you in sport, in sports clubs and music clubs, and, you know, whatever your particular favorite thing is.
and, and those are good. But I would also say you'll, those are also are things that can be moveable. So I can rally around, you know, with a friend I can get really close and have relationship is if we both liked the Carolina Gamecocks, but if he decides he doesn't like Carolina than he likes the Clemson tigers, all of a sudden the friendship shifts a little bit.
And so, you know, if we're going to rally around anything to find real community and friendship, we have to rally around something. that's immovable. I would say someone that is a movable. I would say Jesus who, I mean, I mean, that's for me and, you know, one of the things that, And I mentioned this, I think in the book, one of the things that I read that demonstrated that it actually was an interview was where the two guys who, and you mentioned them earlier, I think, Airbnb, you know, like an Uber, like Amazon and, and they were talking about how they, how and why they started Airbnb, which is crazy because it's, you're going into a city.
Maybe you've never been in before. Maybe you have, but you're staying in a place in somebody's home instead of a hotel, because that's kind of weird. What's that going to be about? I mean, is that going to be cleaning? And so they thought, okay, if we're going to do this and use existing. Brick and mortar of somebody else's home, to make money, you're going to do it.
And so I'm, I'm listening to this interview, Tony. It was, it was amazing. I'm taking can notes feverishly because they said a couple of things that jumped out. They said, okay, we're not building this to build, to something, to build something, to make money. We're creating this to make community because we know if we can build community, it will fund itself.
And by the way, Airbnb is the number one hospitality entity on the globe. Wow. So they, they, they were onto something. but, but one of the things that they said was they said to move people from the unknown, which is staying in someone's house that you don't know to the known there's, this chasm that's created.
And they said the chasm from one side to the other there's risk. Hmm, but the, but the bridge to move from one side of the other is trust. And so I'm listening to this going, Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. I'm just taking notes like crazy because they decided, okay, how will we pitch this to people in such a way that they feel confident?
That they feel trusted. They feel safe if I'm going to stay in this person's home. And so they created all these things hosted Superhost and if you stayed at Airbnb, you know what I'm talking about and stars and ratings and transparency, and, and I'm thinking, this is the same stuff we have to create in relationships with people.
but, but the problem is our trust has been breached, right? so often maybe by family members or friends, or maybe even by the church, but again, we have to step out and we have to trust. And for some of us, maybe we need to learn to trust again, but I promise you if you do, and you find the right kind of community, that God wants the sky's the limit, and you're going to, you're going to flourish and grow and be what God, be who God created you to be.
Tony: I love that Jack. and, and I love your work, and I know that my listeners are going to want to connect with you. Where is the best place on the interwebs for them to. to see more of you and to read or hear, or, you know, see what you're doing.
Jack: Yeah. Thanks. Thanks Tony. I don't know that you want to see more of me, but if I'm going to get, get more content it's, it's just my website, Jack Easton, E a S O N Jackie sun.org.
And whether you get the book or not, and obviously I hope that you do, there are a ton of free resources that our team has put together specifically to help. You personally, or if you're a pastor, a ministry leader, I mean, there's videos, there's audios, there's sermon outlines, there's graphics, there's icebreaker videos.
There's tons of stuff. So go, go get it and use it because it's all for free, to help you, or maybe somebody, you know, get through this issue of loneliness and find the loneliness solution.
Tony: I love it. And, and I encourage you to pick up a copy of the book and, And see more of Jack's work. And one of the questions I always love to end with Jack is, is this, it's an advice question.
If you could go back and give yourself one piece of advice. And so, as you are getting ready to. To jump into this loneliness solution project. I, I would imagine, several months ago, probably years ago. what's the one piece of advice that you wish you could give yourself before you uncovered this, this epidemic.
Jack: Wow. that's a great question. I don't know that this would apply just to the book. It may be to the book and to life and the ministry, and just growing as a person. I would say I probably wish I had spent more time preparing. you know, and, and that could be across all kinds of spectrums. I mean, it could be spiritually, it could be physically, could be everything.
you know, I think sometimes we try to, get to the end of the, the road and we want God to tell us, okay, God, where do you want me to be? And we kind of carve out our own path quickly to get there. Quickly getting to the destination doesn't necessarily mean you took the right route to get there.
And because you may miss some learning experiences along the way. So I, I wish, you know, in a lot of different aspects of my life, that I had had prepared better. Some of that may have been more in being more intentional, which, which is a word you used earlier, finding people, not just assuming somebody who's going to seek me out, but me aggressively finding people.
To mentor me and help me grow and help me understand more about myself, about life, about ministry. So, whatever you're going through today, spend the adequate time preparing don't don't feel like it's slowing you down, getting to the destination. It actually may be putting some supersonic fuel in your tank, to get you there.
so trust trust the Lord's Tommy.
Tony: Amen. Amen. thank you for your generosity today and for spending so much time with me and for the gift that you have given to all of us, with this writing. And I'm just praying that God does some amazing things with it.
Jack: Well, thank you, Tony. I'm grateful for you and continue to be praying for your ministry.
And, thanks for choosing to spend some time with me today.
Tony: What an incredible conversation with Jack. I love. some of the stats that he brings to the table on this, how he said that only 53% of individuals, have meaningful daily face to face social interactions and with work from home, I'm anxious to see what that number is next year.
I also think about how easy it is to be isolated, even when you're surrounded by people. And I know that really is talking to a lot of us. So I hope that you found this conversation meaningful, fruitful. I pray that Jack was speaking to you as much as he was speaking to me. If you would please do me a favor, follow Jack on all the socials, let him know how much you appreciated hearing him on the podcast.
And as always, if you could help get us to our goal, we're trying to get to a hundred reviews by the end of the year. And your review means so much to me. Our team reads every single one of them or so thankful for you. And, Thankful for what God's doing through this platform. Thank you guys so much for spending some time with us today.
And I look forward to connecting with you again real soon.
