#125 Mark Gregston: Grandparenting Your Teens
Mark is a teen expert, rancher, and a voice of wisdom we all need to hear.
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EP. 125
Tony: [00:00:00] Hey everybody. Welcome back to the Reclamation Podcast, where our goals to help you reclaim good practices for faith and life. I'm Tony. And today is episode 1 25 of the podcast. And I sit down with the legendary teen expert. Mark Gregston. Mark has decades of doing teen ministry and is often called the teen.
And his latest resource, grandparenting teens, he talks all about the difference between information versus wisdom, applied principles of daily living. We dive into our conversation today about what does it mean to create. As a parent of a teenager, I can tell you firsthand, I got a lot out of this conversation and and I know that my parents will too, right.
They're the grandparents of my kids. So if you have a teen, if you know a teen, if you're influenced a teen life, I think you're gonna love this. If you do love [00:01:00] the dialogue, do me a favor. Hit that subscribe button wherever you listen to podcasts, leave us a rating review on iTunes. And please, please, please share this episode with a friend after all the referral is the best gift that you can give us.
Hey, I don't know if you knew this or not, but we are a ministry of spirit and truth, spirit, and truth is a ministry dedicated to renewing the local church. Through spirit led interactions. It is such a gift to be partnered with them and the spirit and truth podcast network for more information, to get connected to them, or to have spirit and truth at your church.
Check out our website, spirit and truth.life. Now without any further ado, here's my conversation. With mark Gregston. Hey everybody. Welcome back to the podcast. I'm so excited today to have a speaker, author and teen expert, mark Gregston with us, mark. Thank you so much for being here today.
Mark: Well, absolutely. I then was great to join you.
Tony: So I, I, I was [00:02:00] curious how does one get called in to becoming a teen expert? I feels like teenagers are largely, are largely considered one of the shunned generations of our day. And, and yet here you are writing, teaching and helping others, helping, helping others deal with teenagers.
How did you get started in this ministry?
Mark: You know, I, I would just say it's kind of crazy. My wife and I dated since we were in the ninth grade. And our first date was when this Christian band came through Tulsa, Oklahoma called led Zepplin. And and we went to the concert and we dated all through high school, went off to different colleges and came back after a year.
And somebody walked up to us and said, would you like to lead a young life club? And that's in one sense, I would started two weeks later. A man said I'm struggling with my son. I don't know what to do here. I am 19 years old and I'm going, wow. Me neither. And I said, well, why don't you let him come live with me?
And that's really how it started. And it [00:03:00] wasn't with the intention. It was just with something happened. And so this young man came in, live with us and live with me and then another young man, and then another young man, and then somebody else was struggling with. Jane. And I got married that we started taking girls at different times and it has gone back and forth.
And, and so you know, during that time I was a young life area director. I was a youth minister to church. I was at a Christian sports camp in Branson, Missouri. But it always kind of leaned toward those kids that are struggling and having a tough time. And I'm not talking about the incorrigible juvenile, the link on, I'm not, I mean, I'm talking about the normalcy of kids that are no different than your kids are my kids that are making poor choices or something traumatic has happened and they're spinning out of control and they just need some help.
And, and so that's kind of where we've always kind of fit in. And to me, it's just as much as a surprise of a surprise to me. That we've ended up where we are or that someone would call me a teen [00:04:00] expert because my degrees in real estate investments and finance and, and but I I've had over 3000 teens live with us.
And over that period of time, I think you just learn a lot about kids and, and whatever we're learning is working to help pass on.
Tony: Now, one of the things that you do is is a Christian boarding school and, and it's called Heartlight ministries and you get to have a phenomenal website. I'm curious what have you learned about yourself and about God living with all those teenagers?
Mark: That I'm a pretty impatient person and God has an amazing sense of humor.
I mean, I think it it's, it's, it's those two things that I never really said, this is what I want to do. I mean, but we just kind of happened into it. I've always told people that you look at the Heartlight campus and the beauty of it is that people always say, well, [00:05:00] it looks like you've had a master plan.
And I go, no, we haven't had a master plan. I believe the master has had a plan, but he just never shared it with us. Because I think if he did, I would have messed it up somewhere along. The way. And so I'm one of those guys that have never planned out anything. It's just kind of happened. I never wanted to be on the radio, but we are, I never wanted to write books, but I do.
I've never wanted to spend 200 nights on the road, you know, leading parenting seminars, but that's how life kind of turned out and, and that it never has been anything that I've said, this is what I want to accomplish. This is what I want. It's it hasn't been that it's been with the same motivation. How do we help families get to a better place?
How do we offer something for kids? How do we you know, take what we know to be true? The biblical truths, the standards, the values, those biblical principles. How do we apply those to the common everyday issues that families are are [00:06:00] challenged with? And then at the same time, how do we give them some practical insight as to how.
Overcome some of this stuff that, that everybody believes is so crazy and weird, which it's really not. It's just an ever-changing culture. And so that's where I have always kind of just sat and felt very comfortable saying, let's figure this out for this kid. Let's figure it out for the family. Let's.
But let's create a place where a Haven, a Haven of hope, a place of healing that is going to be effective, but it's also going to be very practical in helping somebody move in the right.
Tony: Now I'm curious. How was it raising your own family in this scenario? What was that like? Being, being a quote unquote teen expert, and then eventually having your own because listen, I'm a pastor, but my kids don't ever feel like I'm a very good pastor to them.
Mark: Well, that's probably how my kids were as well. You know, [00:07:00] I think it was different because. My daughter would say, and, and my daughter was when we lived, we lived in house when we started the program. And so my wife and I, and our two kids all lived in one room for two and a half years as we started out the program and, and.
She would, she would say to me, you spend more time with other kids and you do me. And I go, well, yeah, I do, because that's my job, but it's not because of my lack of love for you or my son felt like it was never my time with him because it was always with another group of kids. And I think they got lost a little bit.
In their relationship with me just because I'm one of these guys that, you know, think thanks that sleep is overrated and, and you know, I need to work all the time and, and there's always something to do when you live on acreage and, and a ranch that has a ton of horses. And, and and so I was just always consumed with doing more things.
And and I can [00:08:00] tell you that, that my relationship with my kids is a lot better. Now that they don't live at home and they're married and they have kids. And I mean, it's just, it wasn't the best of times for us, I guess, is what I'm saying.
Tony: Yeah. And yet you made it on the other side and from all, from all outward appearances, at least it looks like things are, things are going really, really well.
You know, you're probably. Resonating deeply with some, some parents right now who are struggling with teenagers. If you, when you encounter parents who are struggling with teenagers, what, what's the, is there a go-to word of hope that you give them? Is there something out there that you're like, Hey, this is the place to start to rebuilding that relationship with your teen.
Is there kind of a starting jumping off?
Mark: Well, it's letting everybody know that this is temporary. You know, I mean so much of the stuff that we encounter is temporary. And [00:09:00] people just have to realize that it's not that this isn't going to last a lifetime for the most part, if you do some things to change the environment.
And so I think it is saying to them, let's, let's understand that things are temporary, but the second part of that is. That we can all make some changes that will change the atmosphere of our home. That creates a kind of a new world of relationships. That, you know, offer something to a child. And so at the, at the basis of it, I mean, that's, it's easy to say that, but at the core of it is that I, that I really believe that kids want to have a relationship with their parents and that parents really want the other as well, but they get lost and they don't know what went awry somewhere.
And so if people spent time saying. Let's tear this thing apart and try to figure out why your child is doing what they're doing. If all behavior is goal-oriented, then whatever they're doing, whatever you see is behavior. That's a visible expression of the invisible issues in their life. And then there's other things that you're doing [00:10:00] as a parent.
There's some reason why you're doing those things and they may not be connecting. And it may say let's change some things up. Let's change the way. That you parent so that you can start offering your child what they need as opposed to what you think they need to get. And there's a big difference between those two, because I think parents go into the adolescent years thinking that I know what to give them, rather than saying, I need to know what they need.
And the culture has changed so much that the needs of kids today are far different than they were even five years ago.
Tony: Yeah. I had a a football coach on the podcasts. Couple madness, gosh, a couple of years ago now. And one of the things he said is that, is that we have to coach kids today in a way that we've never been coached ourselves.
Because the generations have changed so much, your, your latest resource is called grandparenting teens. [00:11:00] And it's really designed for that generation above the parents. But, but I think it's, it's really applicable to parents and grandparents, as we look at building a structure of community around our teenagers w what, what made you decide to jump into this idea about grandparenting teens versus just parenting.
Mark: Well, you know, I'm always looking for people who can become allies for teens. And it was really bill and Gloria Gaither who made a comment. They asked me to speak at one of their conferences and, and I said, well, I'm not that old. I know. I don't, I don't, you guys are as old, as dirt unique, you guys need to be the ones doing that.
And they said, no, no, you, you know, you're in your sixties and you've had you got grandkids. And, and I said, well, I don't, I don't know. And then I went to one of the events and here I am in an arena with 8,000 people. And I, and I thought. You know, it's [00:12:00] amazing the resources that are in that room. Most people don't realize that out of all the people that have lived to age 65 and beyond since the beginning of time that 82% of those people are alive today.
And so here we have. An arena full of wisdom, a lot of wrinkles and gray hair and, and, you know, little Duarles underneath their chin, that wiggle back and forth. And I mean, they're just signs of wisdom. And then we have a generation of, of adolescents who are drowning in information, and yet longing for.
Well, let's put those two things together and that's where Gloria Gaither said, mark, you need to write a book. And I said, I don't know. She goes, yeah, yeah, you got to do it. You gotta do it. And so I did, and I started looking at it, thinking about my own kids. I've got a 21 year old granddaughter and a 15 year old.
And I thought, you know, grandparents can, if we're, if we give them some good direction and help them understand what's going on in the culture, then at the same time, I give them some practical [00:13:00] ways to engage differently. If they, if they engage the way they used to engage with their kids, it's not going to work.
You have to engage differently because the culture has shifted. People communicate different. They hear things different. They hear judgment different. They hear the demand for perfection. The authoritative, you know, this is how it's going to be just isn't going to work anymore. So let's do it in such a way that that provides the, the conduit for wisdom to be transferred among an older generation at a younger generation.
And if they do it the right way, these kids will benefit because they're longing for wisdom. They are overrun with information. They are longing for wisdom. And I think grandparents have that.
Tony: Yeah. You talk about information and wisdom a lot in the writing. I'm curious if you could kind of give us a construct to understand what's the difference between just downloading information versus receiving wisdom.
Mark: [00:14:00] Well, you know, it's like this. I mean, if, I mean right here, I have every bit of information I need. I can ask Siri any question. I, I can, I don't need any more information. I've got the library of Congress in my hand so I can find out anything. And so if all you are as a parent or a grandparent is a source of information.
Well, I don't need you anymore. I mean, because I've got all the information and I've got it from a number of sources. And so what I'm longing for is wisdom and wisdom or the applied principles of right living. And, and I mean, it's, it's not just scripture, but it is scripture, but it scripture fleshed out in somebody's life.
Who's observed things who's reflected on things. Who's experienced things and can bring the uniqueness. Of the wisdom that they'd gathered in their, in their life, like the uniqueness of a, of a fingerprint to share with their [00:15:00] family and make a connection. And so, so that's where I think that there are so many, there are so many grandparents, if they can learn how to share the wisdom.
Without sharing information, if they can learn to get perspective without, without always sharing their opinion. And if they can become accepting of kids without becoming judgmental, telling them what they've done wrong, how they need to do it better, you know what it needs to look like the next time you can create an atmosphere that a child will come to, rather than you always having to chase them.
And, and I think that's the one component of the equation that. That grandparents have is that they had the, the, the, the wisdom that of a life that's been well lived with biblical principles that have been applied and fleshed out. And that scripture that says for, I was well pleased to share with you not only the gospel, but my life as well, because you'd become very dear to us, you know?
You're given that the opportunity and [00:16:00] what you're doing is offering hope to kids. You're offering a relationship that says there's nothing you can do to make me love you more. And there's nothing you can do to make me love you less. Those are important concepts of, of a relationship. Because this culture of adolescence does not have that concept of relationships.
They spend most of their time in the shallow end of the relationship pool, where they can barely wait and barely float, because they don't know how to develop the deeper relationships, because the way that this, this whole group communicates. And so I think that's where that any grandparent has an amazing opportunity to influence if they can get over.
Trying to do it their way all the time, and maybe learn some skills that, that will help them make a connection where they can be used and, and find that great sense of purpose in the lives of their, of their teen grandchildren.
Tony: I think that sounds incredible. And like, as a [00:17:00] parent, that's what I want for my teenager.
And I've got a 15 year old young man who we're trying to raise. And one of the things I know about his friends and, and sometimes him, is that the way he sees the world does not feel like it's done through a biblical worldview. Now I'm very, my son is a great young man and he's making good godly decisions.
I believe most of the time. From my lips to God's ears. That's my prayer. Right. But I know a lot of his friends are, I know a lot of his friends are not raised in Christian homes. Right. And when we talk about identity, a lot identity seems to be a really big deal with teenagers. Their, their sexual identity specifically w when a grandparent runs into a situation that it might be new to them.
Like. How people choose to identify themselves sexually with their teenager. How do we live in that tension of, Hey, I have a biblical worldview, but my teenager doesn't and isn't even ready to have that dialogue yet. [00:18:00] W what's the first step?
Mark: You know, I th I think the first step has got to be a, a sense of compassion that they're in a world.
That's a little confusing right now. I mean, go back and think about what you dealt with in high school. Now think about what your teen grandchildren or your own teens have to deal with in high school. I mean they're bombarded. I mean, it is just absolutely bombarded. When you look at everything that's going on from, from a gender confusion, to the gay rights issues to black lives, matter to all these other things.
It is amazing to me. It's, it's just it's just, it's amazing to me that, that, that, that they're not so overwhelmed that they're losing a sense of, of. How would I say a sense of security? And so it just becomes more confusing for them. And I think what that means is, I mean, [00:19:00] truly means is that, is that I may not as a grandparent, have the answers to the, all the gender identity issues and everything else.
But I child can see through that. And as long as I'm not judgmental and I'm okay to sit down and ask them questions that offers the opportunity for them to move toward me, meaning this. I couldn't tell you all the letters in the LGBTQ plus R whatever it is. I couldn't tell you what asexual, bisexual, pansexual, whatever.
I couldn't tell you all those things. I, I don't get. Why it's him, them, them, there's his, I get lost in it. And instead of trying to act like I know everything. What I do is sit down with somebody and say, Hey, tell me how you understand this. Cause I'm kind of confused about it. And so now I become somebody who's learning from a child and what's happening is that they know that they're valued.
And so when I hear [00:20:00] it from their perspective, now I have the opportunity to ask questions of them. Instead of always feeling like I have to give them answers, I'm going to start asking more questions. To cultivate their thinking so they can come to a conclusion that isn't going to be resolved in one conversation.
Absolutely. I mean the, the homosexual debates gone on since the beginning of time. And I go, and which means it's not going to be solved. I mean, but, but what it can be is that it is that we can have a relationship and discuss the differences where hopefully what they'll do is start at wanting to ask me questions and seek my wisdom of what I've seen.
Now, if all I do is share an opinion. I mean, yeah, everybody's got two opinions. There's like armpits and they both stink, you know, it quit giving opinions and start sharing perspectives on, on life. Like this has been a challenge for some time. This has been this. Where did you know? And you [00:21:00] talk about things with people, rather than talking at people and pushing them away and coming across as judgemental because the minute you have a demand.
For perfection or you use your authority or you become judgemental, you will lose this generation of kids simply because they don't respond that way because the, the culture is so sensitive to any of those things, because it just doesn't work.
Tony: Well, one of the things I appreciate about the way that you've written this resource is that it's, it's super practical. And one of the lines that I wrote down is don't give up when they hurt your heart. And that feels that feels like a very powerful and when I think about my church, family and ushering and trying to pastor.
Multiple generations. I hear a lot of hurt from my older generation specifically because everything has changed. Right. And their feelings are very, like, [00:22:00] I would have never talked to my parents this way. I would have, you know, th there's a seems to me, and I'm not a scientist by any means that there's a shift because the, in previous generations we would go.
To the older to the elder generation. And now there seems to be an expectation for the teenagers and the younger generation to expect the, the grandparents or the older generation to come to them. How do, how do people deal with the hurt of failed expectations?
Mark: Well, you know, and, and that's really where a lot of hurt happens is with the, with those expectations that begin to happen. I think that, you know, it's kind of like when my son came to me and said, you know, I've been having an affair and I'm going to divorce the gal. I just married, you know, a year and a half ago.
And I want to be with this. And my son is the one who I came up with the, with the comment that said, there's nothing you can do to make me love you more. There's nothing you can do to make me love you less [00:23:00] until we told me that. And then it changed. It'd be a, it's an easy comment, but then it became hard.
And what I realized was is that it's real easy loving people when they do what you want them to do. It's harder to love them when they aren't doing what you want them to do. And so that's when that's, when that daughter comes and says, you know, I've, I've decided to move in with my boyfriend or, you know, or let's say that a son says, Hey, I think I'm gay.
Or, you know, whatever those things are, it's okay for me to smoke pot or I'm going to have an abortion or. You know, I'm gonna, we went ahead and got married. I mean, those are things that hurt when somebody violates a relationship by not sharing things, whatever it is, it, it, it just hurts. And I think at some point.
You begin to realize that it's really not about you. It it's, it, the biggest challenge is how do I move towards somebody who isn't doing what I [00:24:00] want them to do. And that's hard and it's called. It's called grace. It means I, you know, I mean, grace is offering something to somebody when you have every reason to walk the other way.
And, and it's hard and God does a great job. I don't do as well a job, but I want to, and I strive for that, but I just know that it's hard. And I think that's when, when, when you move towards somebody that way, then what happens is the relationship trumps the hurt. That I can continue to have the relationship and build that relationship and allow the hurt that I feel, which is about me to be put in the back seat.
And one day it will be resolved and it may be the day after you get to heaven, you know, it it's it, it may not be resolved here on earth, but at some point you just saying, I'm not going to be weighed down by some of these things that are. Really insignificant and I'm going to move on with what's the most important thing in our family, and that is about relationships.[00:25:00]
Tony: So I think that there's probably some people listening right now who may not have much of a relationship if they have any relationship with all at all with their, with their team. Right. They haven't quite gotten past the, the grunting and the head nods. And that everything's fine yet. How, how do you encourage grandparents, parents, adults, allies, to, to really begin a relationship with a teenager who up to this point wants nothing to do with him.
Mark: You know, if I was a parent and I had a child doing that, then I'd probably manipulate them in some way. I mean, this, I would say I would love, I would love to get together with you. Once a week and go sit down and have ice cream or a great dinner, our coffee. And if you're willing to do that, I'm willing to pay for your cell phone.
And if you're not willing to do that, then I'm not paying for your cell phone. And somebody says, well, [00:26:00] mark, that's manipulate. And I go, you darn right. It is because what I'm trying to do is make a connection and I'm forcing a child to get with me, believing that if, if that child will spend time with me, that they'll see something different.
Now, before you jump into that and do that, ask yourself the question, what is it about me? As a person that is getting in the way of my relationship with my child. Why does my child feel like I'm a door? Why do they feel like I'm angry all the time? Why do they feel like I'm judgemental? Why do they feel like I'm critical all the time?
Why do they feel like I'm always preaching at them? Why do they feel like, and whatever that is, that's what I need to work on. And because if it's getting in the way of the relationship, and there's only one person in this, in this whole world that you can change and that's, you. Then you need to look at yourself and say, okay, can I change that in me and ask the question?
Why is it that I'm always preaching at my child? Why is it that I'm always correcting them all the time? Why is it that I'm demanding perfection? Why [00:27:00] is it that I'm judgmental in my comments? I mean, those are the things that get in between a relationship. And when I remove those. Now I can have that relationship and that's going to be the first thing that I share.
When I sit down with a child, after we do this thing for a week after week after week, I'm going to start sharing all the things that, where I've messed up, where I'm not all put together where I'm not perfect, where I've made mistakes, where I've been fired from a job. When I made poor choices. Because it creates an atmosphere that allows a child to start sharing those things as well.
And in that, in that relational atmosphere, now you have the opportunity to share what you've learned, the wisdom that you've gathered, the perspective that you, you hold of different things, the way that you work through your own difficulties and hardships. And I think that's where that we get this idea that we always have to pull kids up to us.
And I go, no, we don't. We need to go down to them. [00:28:00] It's almost like we need the word to become flesh in our lives and dwell among our team, grandchildren and children, so that they get a taste and an example of what a, what a, what a God fearing blameless person looks like, what they feel like, how they think and how they engage a culture.
That's quite different than what they're using.
Tony: It's interesting. When I talk about when I, when I'm discipling people and we're talking about this idea about who's poured into your life. It's amazing to me, how many grandparents are brought up in that equation is that, you know, it was the, it was my grandma. It was my grandpa that taught me first, how to read scripture.
W when you think about faith development, how much of a role can a grandparent have in that process? Of discipling, not the next generation, but the generation after them.
Mark: I think that can have an amazing impact. [00:29:00] And the reason I say that is, is because, because they carry so much. I mean, w w if, if wisdom is gathered by observation reflection and experience, you know, you're looking at somebody that is 65, 70 years of that, and surely they'd gathered something and people go, well, I don't have that much wisdom.
And I go, oh yes, you do. You just have to spend time looking at it from a different perspective. You're always, most people think about transferring concepts through, to. And I go, you ought to be transferring those concepts to the life that you live and how your kids or your grandkids see you live with somebody else.
I mean, it's almost as if we think that words are going to answer that, and it's not going to be words, words are great for a teaching model, but a training model, which is ages 12 on up is more about the example that you set before kids and grandkids to show them. The word of God being flushed out in somebody's life.
I mean, it's, it's a living example. It is, it is the word becoming [00:30:00] flesh and dwelling among them in you, you know, it is, it is letting the you know, the word of God out of the abundance of your heart. Speak again. You don't have to quote it all the time. We get this idea. I've got to be teaching, teaching, teaching.
I've got to have another lesson or, you know, not every teachable moment needs a lesson. Your actions speak a lot louder. Then your words, the way that you engage with other people makes all the difference in how your, your kids or your grandkids will see you. It's the example that you put forth before them.
And it may not be any of the words you say at all. It may be by the very things that you're doing that will have a greater impact on the life of your child. Then believing that well, if I just get them to memorize this scripture, if I just quote this to them, then they'll be okay. They will be okay, but there'll be a lot better off if you pour your life into them and show them how to apply the very things that they've been taught so [00:31:00] that they can embrace this hope of, of of a relationship with Christ and what that looks like.
Tony: Yeah. If you end the book talking about this idea of a legacy and one of the chapters and one of the sub chapters in that section of the book is supporting your kids, then their kids in word and deed. And I thought, wow, it's it's, it's not just about saying that you need to listen to your parents, but it's actually about listening to your parents.
How important is it for grandparents to get that? Adult parent relationship, right? Does it, does it, does that make sense? What I'm asking.
Mark: Yeah. Yeah, no, I think it is, you know, it's amazing to me, my kids don't do it. Right. Because I do, I mean, I know everything that's right. I say that I'm joking, but there's a part of it where I go.
But I still support them. I support them a hundred percent. I support him even when they're wrong. [00:32:00] And the reason is because if I go outside of those bounds, then I'm becoming a parent and a grandparent is not a parent on steroids. I mean, a grandparent has a, has a distinct role that can support those parents and help them get to a better place.
And. They're your grandkids understand what the parents are doing? You know, the beauty of a, of a grandparent is you don't have to deal with rules and consequences and all those things. When my grandkids come and see me at my home, I don't tell them that their dresses too short or, or that, that may be they dyed their hair, the wrong color, or that they.
You know, got some kind of stud stuck in their nose or I don't, I don't care about that stuff. It's it's unimportant to me. It's going to pass and they'll probably pull it out or their hair will fall out or, yeah. I mean, I don't care about those things. I mean, we don't have rules. It's just come and spend time.
I want you to rest. I want you to know this as a place of encouragement. I want you to know that that I want you to be hope-filled when you leave, I want you to eat the best meal you [00:33:00] ever can. I want you to know that somebody here is always for you, that, that we will never leave you. We will never forsake you.
We will never trash you. We will always be supportive of you in anything. And if you need anything, let us know. That's the type of place a child will come to. Cause it creates a relational atmosphere where in that relationship they can start asking the tough questions like, Hey grandpa, you ever smoked pot?
When you were in high school? Hey, ma'am. Did you ever have sex before you got married? Those are the questions you're waiting for because it gives you the opportunity to start sharing the wisdom that you've gathered to help a team through this challenging culture that they live in.
Tony: I think that's such a important word and a great reminder.
And I think I tend to think an organizational charts from my, I was in the army for a long time. And so in a lot of ways, it's like the teenager or the children [00:34:00] report directly to the parents, but we've got this what we used to call the dotted-line club in the army. Right. Which there the dotted line club or the support staff over there on the right hand side, that we're not really in the chain of command, but you can't ignore authority either.
We're really good. Yeah. You know, it, is that kinda what you're saying?
Mark: Well, yeah, I think it is not in the. Yeah, there's, there's something there that's important because I can be a support to the whole, the whole thing I can make things happen, you know, and I can help a grandchild understand why the parents are that way.
And it may be because I messed up as, as their parent and I can give them insight, you know, it's, it's those things that I can do to. Part of, of my, of my kids in their raising of their, because they're having to deal with all the rules and consequences. And whether you get this nose pierced or this, or this pierced, or what kind of tattoo, [00:35:00] I mean, they have to deal with all that stuff.
And that's a lot harder than the stuff that I'm doing, which is just spoiling them rotten and but I, but it can work together and it can be a wonderful co balanced relationship. But I never, as a grandparent step into the parenting role, you know, unless, unless you have to, unless the parents are absent.
Totally. And there's a lot of grandparents that have to do that, but I mean, I, I'm going to let them be the parents and they're going to let me be the. And so it's, it's just a beautiful role of both. And so, as long as everybody's trying to engage with the same people, I mean, it's, you know, you have a lot in common.
I, I mean, I tell my grandkids that we, you know, that we have a lot in common. It's a common enemy. It's, it's my daughter and my son, and you know, that, that they're working against and I'm working again. So I'm joking. I'm joking.
Tony: So as this resource gets released into the wild for the very first time, I know that my listeners [00:36:00] love to pray.
What can we be praying for specifically as this book gets out there? When it comes to, to grandparents and teens,
Mark: Well, you know, I'm, I'm one of those guys that really doesn't care about book sales, which is kind of funny because I'll give it away. I tell people all the time when I travel and speak around the country, I tell them, look, I, if you can buy the book wonderful.
But if you can't, I'm going to give it to you. And my hope is this from the book, is that grandparents. We'll learn how to become an ally of their teen grandchildren, because this culture of, of teens needs more support than they've ever had before. And my hope is that there'll be able to engage and transfer the concepts that, that sometimes get get lost.
I think in opinions, but can give, can be attached to a child's life more by perspectives that. The grandparents will be beacons of hope that there'll be voices of wisdom. That [00:37:00] there'll be a voice of encouragement, a hug of affirmation, you know, in the lives of teens, just because teens are going through such a tough time.
I mean, they have to be raised in the, in this culture where you and I have said that we're glad we don't have to grow up in it. Well, they do. And, and as a result of it, they need all the help they can get and they need grandparents involved in their life.
Tony: That's I think that's a really good prayer for all of us.
So I have one more question for you, but before I ask it, I know that my listeners are going to want to follow your ministry all over the interwebs. Where is the best place to learn about what you're doing and Heartlight ministries and all of the things that we can do to support our team.
Mark: Sure. Yeah. You know about Heartlight that's the residential counseling center in Longview, Texas.
You can go to Heartlight ministries.org. And that will tell you all about Heartlight. I spend most of my time on radio writing [00:38:00] books, I'm spending 200 nights out of the year, traveling across the country, helping people not ever have to send their child to come live with us. And and that's through all the resources we can.
Through parenting today's teens.org, which is the name of our podcast, our our radio program and, and they can find out about, you know, anything that I do at parenting today's teens, not a word G.
Tony: Great. And we'll link to all that in the show notes. Final question. I always love to ask people. It's an advice question, except I get to pick the exact time when you have to give yourself a piece of advice.
So I want to take you back to the second day after you invited your very first teenager to stay the night at your place. And you made the decision to walk alongside this young human. If he could go back and give yourself that younger version of mark, one piece of advice, [00:39:00] what would it be?
Mark: Don't give up. I think there were times that the kids that live with us did things wrong and I gave up. And had I had known early, early, early on that that was temporary and, and that God's gonna use me that, you know, in their life, not only when they're agreeable, but also how they're disagreeable then That I, I, I, I really, I think about that a lot, quite honestly, how I wish I would have had a little bit more patience and a little bit more tenacity to hang with the tougher kids that we've had to deal with.
And you know, and now I've got that. Now it doesn't, now kids don't bother me at all. We've had 3000 kids live with us and the 60 that live with us now, or wonderful, wonderful kids. And But I, I wish I could be to those early, early kids of what I am to kids today. And I just wish I wouldn't have given up on so many [00:40:00] of them.
Tony: Amen. Amen. I think that's a peripheral mark. Thank you so much for your time today and your generosity and for what you're doing for the next generation. I'm so excited to see how God uses this resource.
Mark: Cool. Thanks so much.
Tony: What an incredible conversation with mark. I love his devotion to the long-term development of teenagers. I love the way he does ministry, man. I just love his heart. And I hope you did too. I think one of my big takeaways from this conversation is definitely the idea of how we have to move from teaching to training. And that sort of idea is just so important. So, Hey, if you did enjoy the podcast today, do me a favor, hit that subscribe button, leave a rating or review on iTunes and be sure to share this episode with a friend.
I'm so thankful for all of you and to be on this journey with you. And remember, if you want to follow Jesus, you must be willing to move.[00:41:00]
