#149: Mike Ashcraft: To Be Concluded
Pastor Mike Ashcraft believes it's time for you to end things well. In his latest resource, he shares with us his heart for intentional conclusions, so that we can have a little bit more hope.
Links:
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Mike-Ashcraft-2092218660992843/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mikeashcraft/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/mikeashcraft
Websites: tobeconcluded.com
EP. 149
Tony: [00:00:00] Hey everybody. Welcome back to the Reclamation Podcast, where our goal is to help you reclaim good practices for faith in life. I'm Tony in today's episode 149 of the podcast, where I sit down with pastor speaker and author Mike Ashcraft. Mike is a leader of a movement out of North Carolina in his latest.
To be concluded. He talks about the importance of ending things. I love it. There were so many great nuggets. One of the things he said that has just really resonated with me is pick a point, draw a line. I love the idea that we dive into what it means, why it's important. I think you're really going to love this episode and Hey, if you do love it, do me a favor.
Hit that subscribe button, wherever you listen to podcasts, leave a rating or review on iTunes and be sure to share this episode with. That's the highest compliment you can give us now without any further ado. Here's my conversation with Mike Ashcraft, [00:01:00] everybody. Welcome back to the podcast. I'm excited today to have author speaker and pastor Mike Ashcraft today.
Mike. Welcome. Thank you so much for being here.
Mike: Yeah, it's great to meet you and great to be with you today. So appreciative of the opportunity. Just chat and talk and you know, and just enjoy one another's company and and hopefully you know, give us some and it gives some helpful ideas and conversation around the way of Jesus.
Tony: So you're in North Carolina. How long have you lived there in North Carolina?
Mike: I've been in North Carolina for 30 almost 30 years. I moved here when I was 22 years old and out of college.
Tony: I'm wondering if you can settle something for me. Why do all the license plates in North Carolina say first and flight?
When clearly, clearly the Wright brothers born in my hometown where I'm recording from right now, downtown Dayton, Ohio, clearly we're the birthplace of aviation. Why, why doesn't your license plate? Say just, we had great. [00:02:00]
Mike: Kitty Hawk, man. I know. Right? It's so funny. I haven't heard that in so long because everybody who comes here from Ohio, they're like, what is this?
Like, we just claimed that, I guess.
Tony: Well I, you know, we do appreciate your guys's wind and and all serious. Now I love North Carolina. We were there recently and it's beautiful. Now you, you didn't start out as a pastor though that wasn't the original work that God had called you to. Can you tell us a little about what career you initially jumped into?
Mike: Yeah, so I started off in architecture. I went to school, studied architecture and wanting to be an architect really badly. And most of it, you know, it really was I was running because I kinda wanted to follow, you know, hundred to be a Christian would have followed Jesus on my terms. So I didn't want to really be in the ministry.
And I thought if I could create a niche for myself doing things I wanted to do, I could offer God things and kind of create a compromise. You know, and I know that more looking back over my [00:03:00] journey than I did at 22 years old, but certainly that was a part of, of the journey. Was I just, I knew that I wanted to follow Jesus on my terms, which is, you know, I don't, I don't think that's very uncommon.
I think a lot of people pursue.
Tony: Well, I tried that this morning, at least once.
Mike: Yeah. It's kind of a daily thing.
Tony: I'm curious. You use the word compromise there. W I think that there are probably a lot of people who wrestle with compromising with what God desires of them versus what they're doing. What, what happens when we compromise or rather when we try to compromise with God, is, is it possible or is it, does that just take us to full-blown discipline?
Mike: Wow. That's a good question. You know I think God, you know, God kinda takes us as we are. He, he honors the, the level of faith that we have, you know, the way I would approach it, rather than thinking of what it does to God, is what it does to me, what I have found in a personal. That [00:04:00] following him and the more I've entrusted him.
And I would, you know, even now there's like you said, this this morning, there's always that sort of tension, but the fullness and the life that Jesus has for me is far more rich and full and free than anything I could ever want from us. And so I've learned to trust him and you know, in perfectly, and it's a continual journey, but I remember years ago, you know, I was just thinking about standing with a friend of mine and we were talking, we both kind of taking very different journeys and he said, Mike, you know, all this stuff that you've gotten to see and experience.
And some of it's been really, really good and some of it's been really, really hard. Sure. But, you know, w what, what would you like? You know, what have you learned? I said, you know, honestly, what I've learned is I would not trust me with myself and because my, my, the things I envisioned for myself is, is what I thought that would be so full and fun and enjoyable would have never come close to what.
I've been able to [00:05:00] experience in terms of just learning how to walk a Jesus and find, you know, what it means to bring the kingdom, to bear on the world around us. And again, it's not without difficulty and struggle and pain and heartbreak, but but it is definitely, you know, I have found God to be incredibly faithful and the sense that I have in, in inside of, of who I've become.
You know, I just know, I know who I would be without him. And I'm really, really grateful.
Tony: I love that idea. Hmm. Not, not trust me with myself. I think that that, that's probably something that a lot of people are shaking their heads up and down too, as they hear that. W I really believe in the, in the, kind of the practical application of our faith, and one of the things that we say around here a lot is that if you're not dedicated to your disciplines, you'll be destroyed by your distractions.
And so I'm curious, What are some of the things that you do on a regular basis, daily or weekly or whatever your rhythm is to to keep God in the right [00:06:00] place and keep you in the right place.
Mike: Yeah. So that's a great question. So it's so, so interesting. I have some, you know, you see the if you see this, you can see my whiteboard behind me.
I've always struggled with, with, with add and attention and all that. Since I was a kid. And and I, my mom was really good cause I would read something until I didn't understand it. And she would just, you know, she was a librarian. She say, read it again. And so I just learned as a way of learning that I would have to read stuff multiple times and the processor.
And as I got into my teenage years in fact, my mom told me when I was, you know, talking about going to church, I said, mom, you know, the pastor is boring and her solution was take. She said, cause if you can learn from from someone who's boring, then you can really learn from anybody. So I started like taking notes, I'm out a pen and a piece of paper with me.
Most of the time I would, I would jot down things and try to take notes. And I'm like, teenagers, this is kind of weird. And I was taught by my youth minister to keep a journal. And so since about 15 years old I've kept a journal and it was just what [00:07:00] I thought, you know, I would read a verse and then write what I thought about.
And I'll look back. I still have a lot of them and there's nothing profound. Some of it's really embarrassing. Some of it's dumb, but I also have in there my own handwriting, praying to, you know, to seek God's counsel on whether or not I should ask my girlfriend at the time to marry me just to have those prayers in my own handwriting.
And I have struggles with my, you know, with being a parent struggles. You know, my job struggles with my temper struggles, with thoughts. I mean, all these things are in mountain handwriting over the years and it wasn't, you know, I always joke, you know, I, I refer to as a quiet time. I mean, that's kinda how we grew up here.
It's really my own personal Lord. Can I align myself with you today and surrender? And I, I read scripture and I reflect and I write down some things and yeah. I always tell our congregation that it only took me 15 years for it to become like normal.[00:08:00] And the re the reality is, is most people just don't do stuff long enough or consistent.
And so when I, when I tell people that there's a, I wrote a book years ago called my one word, there's a whole chapter about journaling in there. And, and our church will tell you that I just Badger everybody about keeping a journal, because it is the discipline. That has probably helped shaped me more than anything else.
And what I think is important about it is journaling. Isn't just keeping a record of what you think, but there are these kinds of principles that I use. And one of them is that, you know, writing my thoughts down allows me to. See what I'm thinking without being blinded by what I'm feeling and allows me to honor the emotion of a moment, but it also allows me to process, you know, what, what we're commanded to do in scripture ideas to renew our thinking, to renew them.
Yes. And so much of spiritual formation has to do with connecting the way we encounter Jesus in worship. And it's shaping the way we view the world by hour [00:09:00] by hour, our thoughts. And there's a no, there there's a mental aspect to it, but there's a spiritual aspect and there and there, and a physical aspect, and they're all connected in this, but it's very clear, you know, Paul says that we are transformed by the renewing of.
And I'm just trying to take that real seriously and do that consistently daily, you know, in some I'm pretty stubborn about it. I always joke with our, you know, our, our church. I said, I know what kind of person I am. If, if I'm not with Jesus and I, I don't want to risk being that person for anybody, like how he's formed me in ways that I wouldn't trade for anything.
Tony: Yeah, I really liked the way you're convicting all of us who don't journal right now.
Okay. Okay. So I, I struggle with journaling. I've got like, I use Evernote pretty faithfully, and so I'll, I'll take notes in my phone, you know, like there's a couple of. Incredible women of God who are pro warriors that I work with and they keep prayer [00:10:00] journals and I'm just like leaving notes everywhere.
And I'm not that organized. And so if somebody is listening to this and they're like, I, I want to become a journal or, but I'm not really sure how to start. Do you have any, like give us some pro tips?
Mike: Sure. Sure. Yeah, I'm not, I'm not a pro that's the beauty. I'm not the organized, organized either. I think what it is, it's not so much about keeping a catalog of everything.
You've thought as much as it is convincing yourself that you're going to slow down to listen. But you're not going to get looped into your brain. So when I pick up even, even like I use a pen and a piece of paper, a lot of times I use a felt tip pen because I can't write fast with it. So it just, it, it just slows, you know, my brains fast, I think, fast my tight, fast, you know, so everything about is like produce, get this stuff down.
And so there's a, there's a time for that. I'll pull out Evernote and I'll just hack out everything I'm thinking about a particular issue, but what I'm trying to really like. What are you saying to me? I pull out my pen and my [00:11:00] pay and my journal and I write down, there are times, you know, when I'll get into, when I'm been a pastor for.
For almost, you know, 25 years 22 years in the same church. You know, I read the Bible a lot of love the scriptures. There are times when I wake up even today and I start reading the Bible and it's not fresh, or it feels like drudgery or I can't focus or I can't slow down. So what I do is I'll pull out my pen and a piece of paper and I'll actually write out the texts that.
I'll just write it out longhand and it just, it just makes everything kind of all the, you know, all the rats that come out and start knocking and just kinda sort of settles all that down and allows me to say, okay, Lord, I'm available to hear from you. And not only to hear from you, but just to be with you and to acknowledge that I trust you and that you have called me all those things that we, you know, just we, we lose sight of, because we're going so fast and there's so much to.
Tony: Do you think that so it feels like [00:12:00] slowing down is a, is a key part of what God has impressed upon your heart kind of in this season, because it, in, in this latest resource to be concluded it feels like there's an essence of, of slowing down. Is there a moment kind of in your story when God was like okay.
Okay. Pastor Mike, you gotta write this book. Mostly it feels like you kind of wrote it for you, but for us kind of like that real tension, you know, you even talk about in the intro about how, you know, some books write themselves. This one did not. W w how, how did you know that you were called by God to, to put this out into the world?
Mike: So that's a really great question. You know, Years ago. I had my own kind of crisis of faith and it had to do with the gospel and it had to do with the gospel being sort of what happens to us when we die. And then you read the way of Jesus and the message of Jesus. Now Jesus talked about his [00:13:00] own gospel that the kingdom is here and it's available.
And you know, it's not just about what happens when we die, but it's about what happens to us as we live. And, you know, like you were saying earlier, you know, the application of the gospel and the scriptures and our faith into the real world is really important. And what I learned was that as a, as a pastor who is starting a church, I was very insecure and I was nervous about what I would offer.
So what I would do is. Quote, a lot of other people and you know, it kind of keeps like, well, at least if it's a bad sermon, it's, you know, it's that person's bad sermon. It's not, Mike's bad. Sorry. I'm just quoting this person. And it took me a long time to find my voice. And as I found my voice, you know, that's kind of what became my own personal.
What I would consider my personal purpose is to be a trusted voice in the lives of people who got his granted. Proximity with or influence or however you would say that. And so part of that [00:14:00] became you know, is writing a part of that, cause I'm not around. By, by nature journaling and things of that have been a part of my journey, but you know, what I knew was that to offer something in that way was very vulnerable.
It kind of speaks to all the insecurities that you, that, that well up so quickly. And usually when I feel like I'm afraid to do something or something is hard rather than resisting it, I kind of leaned into it. And this book was actually beautiful for me because what it started with. It turned into something different.
It became sort of this theological layering of how, and it's not written like a, like, it doesn't read like a theology book, but, but underneath that from my own journey was this layering of how the gospel has so shaped me. And is shaping me and how, what Jesus did actually models for us the way in which we learned to be fateful in a moment which, which, which requires us to not, you know, either hold, you know, live in the past or run [00:15:00] too far ahead.
So all that was kind of going on in the writing of the book. So maybe that's the long answer to, you know, how did I know I supposed to write this? I don't know that. The moment, as much as it was, as I began writing this process unfolding in a hope that comes across in the way people interact with it.
And the message on the, on the pages.
Tony: Yeah. One of the cool things about the book is that. You play a little bit of a visual game, which is hard to describe on a podcast, but why you write to be continued and then over it, you wrote concluded. And then you kind of start off the book with this thought process on the Netflix lifestyle.
I'm wondering if you can kind of paint that picture. What is the Netflix lifestyle and how has it A real part of our lives.
Mike: That was what was so interesting about the book opens with my first Netflix binge, which was this the show parenthood. Sure. And I remember severely, we were kind of late to the game, my wife and I, we had gotten Netflix and [00:16:00] we watched a.
Episode one. And at the very end of the episode, it was good. And at the very end of the episode, there's this little box, it pops up the bottom. It's like your, your show continues. And then it counts down five, four. And the next thing you know, we had watched like two whole seasons of the show and. And I just remember going, oh my God.
And you could, you know, no commercials. It's just, it just goes from one thing to the next. And I, I began to think like, that's really what happens in our lives. We just sort of, it's just one constant continuation, you know, every, every day runs the next every month, every year. And there's nothing that stops us and eventually it just all catches up or piles up.
And either, either crushes. Or it just keeps pushing us faster and faster into the future, trying to get somewhere other than where we are. And so that's, that's what happens. And, you know, I talk about it and just being this sort of chronic continuation and the problem with that is, you know, people achieve great accomplishments.
They accomplish a lot by being pushed [00:17:00] forward. The problem is. You don't actually ever find what God has actually, you know, the promise of redemption in it because redemption is when we get to bring things to a sense of closure and realize that they become usable to what God is doing and not something that's supposed to push us forward to accomplish more, but it's actually shaping who we are and how we live as his followers here in this world.
Tony: So as I think about this concept I think about some of the areas of my life that That I, that I don't know that I've closed very well. That I've concluded. Well. So I kind of have a two-fold question. Is it sh should we go back and close them? I mean, like, should we try to like wrap things up and put a bow on them in a nice way?
Or is it more mental or do I even need, you know, other relationships to be a part of that? Or is this just something like, you know, I could spend some time in prayer and journaling, close things out, or like, The, if, if we're not used to closing things, one, how [00:18:00] is important to close? What was, and then what rhythms did we start to close?
What could be?
Mike: Yeah. And that's a great question, I think, and I think the answer to that would be yes. Right. You know, there are places where you could do it privately, right? There are things that, you know and I think, but I I'm, I'm a huge fan of getting people involved. I think the, one of the beautiful things about the church and what Jesus established as a community for people to be in this with us and, you know, especially we're living in a culture now where 70 people have been adversely affected by, you know, childhood trauma and things that are, that are serious.
I think this has been going on, but it's definitely come to the forefront. And so, yeah, there are things that you people have been running from. For, for years, and those things may require a little bit more intensity to go, Hey, let's, let's deal with this and bring a sense of closure. And the reality is, is a conclusion isn't always above.
It just says, this is no longer going to hold the kind of [00:19:00] authority in my life. But it has, it has had for so long and instead is going to become a part of my story, such that God uses it for his glory and for his purposes in the world, that's, you know, redemption is not clean or Nate, you know, we have this idea that it's like a jigsaw puzzle and we go, oh, I'll understand how this fits into my life.
Puzzle piece and it, it just isn't like that. You think about the Exodus and slavery of the Egyptians of the Israelites in Egypt and the plight of Joseph grinding over his whole life to bring him to a place where God would redeem. Or provide for his people, you know, and the scriptures are full of this, this, this, this long approach to how God operates in our world and redemption, you know, isn't about solving all the problems, but rather making sure that God's purposes.
Are seen and known and in his redemptive promise for his future, that his, that there's always a purpose. His purposes are never, [00:20:00] thoughted our circumstances that we will be his people. He will be our God, and that will bring his kingdom to bear consistently you know, empowered by his spirit over, over to.
Tony: That's so good. I really like and appreciate the way that you talk about it being messy. Cause I, I think that that's like things can be concluded and messy. And I think that gives grace for both good things and bad things. Right. Because we can, I mean, like there are probably some really good things in my life that need to be concluded and there are probably some really bad things in my life that need to be concluded.
And they're both right. They're both. Okay. Right.
Mike: Yeah, there's a story in the book about I went to I'm a big eighties rock fan. So I grew up in the eighties. I know everybody would be jealous that you didn't, they didn't get to grow up in the eighties, but I did. And I went to a concert, took my nephew about five years ago, four years ago, we went to see a Def Leppard injury.
And then there was this guy there and like, he literally like mullet dress and people looked like, [00:21:00] but the problem was, he looked just like me in high school, except he was like 45 years old. And I remember just, you know, the, the story is basically like this guy has, has never. You know, and it looks kind of, I mean, it's cool, but it looks kind of ridiculous to be 40 and still looking like you're, you know, like you're still stuck in the eighties because you never, you know, you it's like you, you had this success and you were afraid to let it go.
So you just hold onto it. And even like, as a, as a, as a pastor, as a pastor of a church, you know, we had an incredible beginning in our church, a lot of people's, you know, have these stories, all the things that God did. And what happens is we end up telling these stories about what God did five years ago, 10 years ago.
And we sort of forget that, Hey, he's did stuff last week. And I, you know, and, and the reason those stories are, are powerful and exciting is because of the uncertainty. And the fear and all the acts that when those stories, and then once we get comfortable and figure things out, we hold onto those things and we stop moving into places that cause us to [00:22:00] be uncomfortable or causes to be uncertain, which, which is the essence of what faith is, is to move into places where we don't know.
Know things are going to be and to trust him. And I think that's what I've found with so many people, they get comfortable in their faith and God is sort of, oh, here's how God works. He's predictable. And he blesses this and he does that. And we get this system where if I do this, then God will do that.
And we stopped following him. And trusting him and looking for what he's doing right in front of us and this, because we're either holding on to things or we're running, you know, that it's that faithfulness in the moment to see and sense what's happening in front of us.
Tony: Yeah. W one of the things you talk about in the, in the book is is one of my favorite sentences is the deception of spiritual winning streaks.
And and maybe it's
Mike: that resonated with you?
Tony: Well, maybe it's just cause I felt like you were stepping on my particular T so I'm a Bible. I use the Bible app. I [00:23:00] always want to be the guy that has that PayPal paper Bible that is like full of notes. And like, you know, I I've met tons of spiritual giants who have had that stuff, but I'm like highlight and stuff and my YouVersion Bible app and.
And they keep track of the number of days that you do it in a row. And I have an addictive personality. It's one of the things about my life that I know. And one day I looked down and I realized that I was almost at three years of doing the Bible every day. Yeah, it was great. I was super, I wish I could tell you, but it was just because like, Hey, this is what I have to do.
This is what I have to do. This is what I have to do. And then I, I got convicted by the spirit. It was. Okay. On three years in day one, I'm going to miss the day on purpose.
It was so hard. You know,
Mike: that like that is, that is such a beautiful picture of this concept. Yeah. Because [00:24:00] like, I mean, rallies is like, is it a good thing that you read your Bible for three years? Of course it is. If you measure your spiritual formation by. Then we have a problem. Like obviously God had other things, but, but what you did that's to me, so cool is you're like, I'm going to, I'm going to bring this to a conclusion and for the specific purpose of beginning something new, and I think it can be literally.
You know, I, I was, I want to say me because three years is a big deal to break a three-year streak is a big deal, but you know, I think a lot, a lot of
Tony: sweating on my part that day,
Mike: that is one of the best things I have heard.
Tony: How, how does hope come out of conclusion? Because hope is a really big theme in your writing and with this idea and hope and endurance. Like I have a bunch of notes and I was like, hope endurance, conclusion. I'm like, this is how does hope kind of, it feels like it's almost impregnated by concurrent.
Mike: Yeah. [00:25:00] And that was kind of a surprise for me. When I started, when I started writing the book, it was really about this discipline of kind of bringing things to a close, but as I began to think, and even like, when, you know, w what happened was when the pandemic began and we knew that it was kind of, okay, this is gonna be a big deal.
What you heard was everybody saying, we want to go back to normal. And I'm thinking, I'm not sure that that feels like we're wasting something. And I started just kind of immersing myself in Romans eight, you know, that that creation is subjected to futility. And then he says in there this one second, he says I think it's like patience.
Looks like, hope this just real kind of real right in the middle there. And I just kind of reflected on that and I began to realize that, you know, we talk about hope. But hope. And it's like you say the same thing with faith hope fundamentally requires uncertainty. And that's exactly what Paul said.
He goes, you don't, you don't hope for what you already have. You know, you don't hope that yesterday was a good [00:26:00] day because you already know it to be so, and, and the greater the uncertainty. The deeper, the longing for hope. And so what conclusions do is they put us in a place, you know, the whole point of the conclusion we it's defined is this an intentional point in time that either is created for me or that I create for myself that allows me to gain perspective that provides space to see some.
And usually when we get unsettled on something, especially as you know, Westerners and, and kind of type a, you know, culture, whenever we get unsettled, we just do something about it. We are, our mode is activity and solve it, fix it, get it behind. And what this allows us to do is go Lord, can we see something in there?
And then, and then the greater the uncertainty to allow the depth of hope to actually take root and find its foundation and something that can actually support. [00:27:00] The longing that we have, which, which is, you know, what Jesus has promised to us and it's to get that bedrock there. And then we say, Lord, now, now I'm positioned to walk with you and to walk on what you have said and what you have promised and not just trying to calculate how this is going to turn out to my advantage.
And it's it's Hey, you know what we found in and kind of practice even through the. Through the pandemic cause it takes tremendous you know, endurance, steadiness, not to run ahead, not to you know, try to solve things that are, that are temporary and really let the process go through because what we, what we discovered on the other side of this, through the journey was so much richer than just getting out of it in that moment to make us feel better and get on with what we want to do.
If that makes sense.
Tony: Yeah, no, it does. I really liked the idea about the, the perspective and how it, how it really begins to shift and change things. [00:28:00] I do hope and pray that someday we'll have that conclusion moment on this pandemic because it feels like. We came in at very, you know, very abruptly, you know, March, March 12th.
You know, we remember everybody's making decisions about their church and everything else, and this was just going to be two weeks off of school. And then and now all of a sudden we're not wearing masks anymore and you know, all politics aside, like it feels like, okay, well, we're just going to push that off to the side, but there was a lot of pain and suffering in that.
D D do you have any insights on if somebody is listening to this and they feel like their life has just. Wrecked by this pandemic. And now the world feels like it's moving on, but the pain and the hurt is still there. How do we, how do we get conclusion on something like that? That's not really ours.
Mike: Yeah.
And I think too, it's interesting. One of my friends said the story that they had, this vision of when the pandemic was over, there's gonna be this parade. You know, like, like this, [00:29:00] this event, the season is over. We declared it over and now we're going to have like a victory day. But it just kind of, it didn't really, and it just kind of dissolved, you know, just kind of say it out
Tony: or whatever it's fizzled out.
Right? Yeah.
Mike: And so it doesn't give us a place. It's not like a hard finish, a finished lot of source. And so what I think we have to do is to actually create one and, you know, one of the things in the book, it just has pick a point, draw a line. You know, I remember like when I was doing, I could, you know, there's some projects or seasons that you're not able to get through in one word.
And so you've gotta like stop, come up, take a breath, take a red. You know, you know, we say pick a point, you know, draw a line, pick a, pick a point, draw a line and go, okay, this is a lot of finish. And what I'm going to do is I'm going to stop here and see what I can see from here. Trusting that there's still lots of things in front of me that I don't yet know, but there are things behind me that I have seen and learned from and trying to see, where has God been faithful and what is he teaching me?
And [00:30:00] how is she shaping me? And where are my. Doubts and fears. And where has my faith been? You know, both of those things are required. You know, one of the things that happens to us again, and that's part of the reason we pick these points, it creates a sense of uncertainty because we don't know what's going to be next.
And one of the things that we've learned, I think we all can relate to this is that, you know, the familiar is far more appeal. I just want to talk about the eighties, right? It's like it's nostalgic. It was when everything was okay. But it was, there was just as much chaos then as there is today. Right.
It was just crazy. But it just feels better because I've been through it. It's, there's a familiarity to it. And, you know you know, what we said is, you know, that. Familiar misery is often more appealing than, than the uncertainty of, you know, uncertain hope even. And so we always long to go back. We just find ourselves drawn and go back to normal, go back to the way things were.
When you pick a point and draw a line, it allows you to acknowledge both the things that you still have [00:31:00] doubts and fears about, but also to really look and say, look. You know, you have been fateful. Can you show me where and begin to record this things and consider this things. And then at that point, you're able to say, okay, now how can I be fateful in this moment?
You know, one of the things that happened to me was as, as the church was growing and I remember driving up and I, you know, the church has been so fast for so long. And when I, when I got to the church, I really am as big and there was all this stuff going on. I realized I don't have any idea what to do next.
Like, you know, I, I just was over, I don't know what to do next. And what I wanted to do was run away and go do something else. And instead, I just had to draw a line and say, Lord, I don't know what to do next. And I started asking them what I realized was that the call wasn't to figure out what to do 10 years from now.
But the call was to be faithful in this moment. And what it is, it took all the pressure off to solve every problem we are facing. And just to say, Lord what's in front of me today. [00:32:00] And I can, and what I found was is I did that day in and day out, was it, was that pickup point, you know, draw a line. Yeah. It allowed me to celebrate what had happened in the past to address the things that I was frustrated with in the past, but to sort of give me enough buffer to be able to say, okay, I don't have to get to the future yet.
But what I, what I can do is be faithful you today. And it was that season that unfolded, and it was about a two and a half year three-year run to start to develop vision for what was ahead of me. And I'm a, I'm a future. Gosh, that was a big deal for me not to have it. I felt like I was letting our staff down.
I feel like I was at our church down because here I'm the visionary leader. And I don't know, I did not know what to do. And the most tempting thing was to keep doing what you've always done. And that's the kiss of death, but that's what happens in our lives. We get into our thirties and forties and fifties, and we're like, well, I just got to keep doing what I've always [00:33:00] done.
And it's not that you have, you know, you're not, I'm not talking about midlife crisis, leave your family. And that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about acknowledging some things and then resolve to be faithful, trusting that God still has purpose for our lives beyond just doing what we've always done.
And you find freshness in your relationships, freshness in the seasons that are ahead a sense of freshness in, in the hard things. And I think that is, you know, that, that is the message of the gospel is that our circumstances do not hold the power to determine. Who we are and the peace and the joy that has been made available to us in Christ.
And it's ju it's, it's just not you don't, you don't experience that by doing what you've always done. Yeah.
Tony: That's so good. You know, pick a point, draw a line is. Is a revolutionary thought process if [00:34:00] people really let it sink in. So I, I hope, I really hope people hear that. There's one more thing in the book I want to ask you about specifically, I love to read dedication pages.
And so you dedicated the book to your parents and to your in-laws and and. The last chapter of the book, the epilogue is all about your father-in-law Mr. Austin. And it's a, it's a, it's a moving, it's a moving dedication. And, and I'm going to let people pick up a copy of the book and read it. I'm not going to ask you to talk about Mr.
Austin. I'll let people just read about that. The question I wanted to ask is Why did you end the book with Mr. Austin without tipping my hat too much?
Mike: Mr. Austin because he w he, he lived it out. Like he had so many things that happened to him along the way that, that anyone else would have quit giving up.[00:35:00]
Taken advantage held and protected and refused to ever be hurt or bothered or disappointed again. And he, at the end of his life at 81 years old was still just as excited. About what a day held for him like today is a new day and it God's mercies are available and I'm going to walk in them. And, you know, I look back and, and he, he had been through things that were so much more difficult than anything I've ever experienced that would have that, you know, I don't, I don't know cause I've been through it, but, you know, I think they could have crushed me and made me so cynical and so protective from ever trusting anybody again.
And yet he, and even, and even trusting God again. Yeah. And yet he just continued to wake up with this sense that, Hey, today is, is a new day. God's mercies are here and I'm going to walk in them. And he had, you know, at 81 years [00:36:00] old had tremendous vision. For the future. And it was because he was faithful with that particular day.
And so without giving the whole story, that's the best I can do. But that's why, when I think about how to end the book and I was like, cause you know, I didn't know. I didn't know what the end is like. And I'm like, yeah, I was just sitting there on a, on the back porch thinking
Tony: that's like, it's kind of funny that you don't know how to end a book on.
Mike: I love it too. Shadi.
Tony: Let's say you were sitting on the back porch and it just kinda came to you.
Mike: Huh? It just, it literally, I was just sitting there on Julius. My wife was sitting next to me and I just started, I was like, this, this is the end. Yeah. And and I, you know, I knew it, the, he picked, he always picked a word to, in his, his final word was, was fruitful.
And I think I shared this in the book that, you know, he tells me about this and is like, you know, this, you know a man will bear fruit in his old age. And, and like I said, it was literally, he wasn't [00:37:00] like trying to make himself feel better about being old. He literally believed. That he was going to continue to be fruitful and it was as exciting and as genuine.
And that's why he was probably one of the most authentic genuine fateful people I've ever met and to have him as a father-in-law I just, it's a, it's a huge privilege.
Tony: What a gift. I got a great father-in-law too, and I'd be lost with Adam. So I'm thankful. So, yeah. I have one final question and it's an advice question.
We'll get to it in just a second. Before I do that, I know that my listeners, my are going to want to follow you all over the interwebs. Where is the best place to learn all about pastor Mike and what you're doing and what God's doing through you?
Mike: So Instagram is where I'm typically the most. But if you want like the real scoop, we, Julie and I are kind of old school.
We have the mic, Julie Ashcraft, Facebook pay Julie, but it's both of us together. So if you want to know, what's really going on. If you follow me on Facebook, [00:38:00] you're going to get Julie's perspective of everything. And so both of those, but Facebook and Instagram, Mike, Julie Ashcraft on Facebook and Instagram is just Mike Ashcraft.
And I'm on both of this places and try to keep it. You know with them and, and, and follow people as well, because it helps me know what's happening in other parts of the body of Christ and around. Do
Tony: you is there a place where you're putting out regular content? Right. I mean, I think I saw maybe the beginnings of a podcast, or
Mike: we knew we have a podcast that we just talked to.
My son-in-law called, just think and I were about, I think, 10 or 11 episodes into that. And then we have on our website of the church, port city, church of port city.church we have all of our messages and a lot of writings and such come from, from.
Tony: Love it. Love it. Love it. Okay. Last question.
I always love to ask people. It's an advice question, and I'm going to ask you to give yourself one piece of advice except I get to take you back to a very specific time in your [00:39:00] life. Oh, wow. And so I want to take you back to the, the Sunday afternoon after your very first service at port city. And so it's, it's Sunday morning, you've just planted this church.
And you're looking at a younger version of yourself, a young man sitting there full of, of hope of all that is to come. If you could take that young man and sit knee to knee with them, look them in the eyes. What's the one piece of advice you're going to give them.
Mike: Wow. Not to be trite, but I, I would say you, God is faithful.
Yeah. Like you you're, you, you cannot be afraid or [00:40:00] deterred because things don't work out like you thought or your plan. Fall through or even because you don't do things completely, right? That God is so unbelievably faithful, and you've got to stay connected to him and follow him and draw strength from him and life from him at all costs.
And I feel like starting a church. We started in and you bring me that did that very moment. I remember, you know, I've seen a lot of people go to the conferences and they come out thinking, oh, I know what I'm doing. And we're going to blow this up. We came out of those very different. We came out of those.
Like, we gotta be thinking you're doing something. We have no idea exactly what it is or how to do it. We need all the help we can get. And, and, and it was that sense of dependency. That I think has, and some of it is just cause my own journey. I was just in us. I've always been so insecure in my own, like [00:41:00] just as a teenager.
So you learn very early. That dependency is, is is critical and that, so, so it sounds trite, but it is, God is so unbelievably faithful. If we will trust him. And he's his faith isn't contingent on our trust, but we experience his faithfulness if we're willing to trust them, like really trust him with everything, with our thoughts, with that, with the deep parts of us.
And, and the other thing I guess I would say is the most important thing. I guess that's two things. Isn't, isn't in any of the big things that you think you're going to do for us. But it is in being incredibly fateful in the thousands of small things that he asks of us every single day. Yeah. If you do those things, fatefully, everything else will take care of itself.
Tony: That's so good. So good. Mike, thank you so much [00:42:00] for your generosity of time and for your vulnerability and for putting your heart out there in the world. I'm really praying. And I'm sure all of our listeners are joining me in that prayer that God uses this book to really help clean up some of the rough spots, rough parts of people's lives and give them a little extra bit of hope.
So.
Mike: Man, thank you so much. What an honor to be with you. And I'm so grateful that you would share this message with your listeners. And I'm. I want to be a part.
Tony: Man. I told you guys what a great conversation with Mike. I think his heart is spot on and I love the way he talks about conclusions. I also talk though, I love the way that he talks about hope and how patients is hope and so many good nuggets here.
Hey, do me a favor, share this episode with a friend and be sure to check out all of our episodes. By subscribing. You don't want to miss one. Thank you guys so much. And remember, if you want to follow Jesus, you must be willing to move.
