#146: Chad Robichaux: Fight For Us
Chad Robichaux is an 8 time Afghanistan war veteran, former MMA Champion, motivational speaker, and author. In his latest resource, Chad shares his story about how all of his success almost cost him his marriage.
This is an honest and authentic conversation with one of the most transparent people I've ever met.
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EP. 146 Full Transcripts
Tony: [00:00:00] Hey everybody. Welcome back to the reclamation podcast, where our goal is to help you reclaim good practices for faith and life. My name is Tony Miltenberger and I'm your host. I'm excited today to dive into this conversation with Chad Robichon. Chad is a former J sock Marine been to deployed to Afghanistan eight times.
He's an author, a motivational speaker, a former MMA champion, and a husband who desperately wants to teach you to fight for your marriage. We talk about overcoming adversity. We talk about the importance of fighting for what you love. We talk about using our failures in a way to help lead others to success.
This was an insightful and deep conversation with a profound. In the world today. I love Chad. I love his heart. And remember, we believe that through intentional conversation, we can help [00:01:00] you. Our listener unpack a deeper relationship with God. That's our goal. We want you to grow with God. And so I'm excited today to jump into this conversation with Chad episode, number 1 46 of the podcasts, and Hey, if you've been listening for a long time, thank you.
If this is your first time, welcome, be sure to hit that subscribe button, wherever you listen to podcasts, leave a rating or review if you liked the episode on Spotify or on iTunes, and Hey, be sure to share this episode with a friend. It's the best way to get information out about what God is doing on this platform now without any further ado.
Here's my conversation with Chad Robichaud. I'm excited today to be here with author speaker Marine MMA fighter, extraordinary. Chad Robichaud. Chad, thank you so much for being here.
Chad: Yeah, man. Thanks for having me on, I'm excited to, to talk with you and tell you about some of the things we're doing in our ministry and then fight for us upcoming book and yeah, I'm [00:02:00] excited.
Tony: I, man, I was looking at what you do and it's so wide and it's so like there's so many different things that I want to talk about, but I thought a good place to start would be to ask the question. How would you describe the call that God has placed on your life?
Chad: Yeah, I think I'd really describe it as just like a burden on my heart.
Like a, not like a call, like this would be cool. That'd be a great way to serve. It'd be like, you know, I can use my gifts and talents to help people. It was really just a heavy burden of. To share what I discovered through my own journey with others to pay it forward. And then more specifically, not just to pay it forward, but to help put people in the same position I'm in to do the same, which, you know, this, we know this to be discipleship.
Jesus commanded us to do when he say go forth and make disciples of all. And you know, that calling that burden was put on my heart through the Isaiah 61. We talks about a nation being ruined and and [00:03:00] it brought down to the ashes, but they'll rise up by the ashes and become by the Oaks of righteousness.
And and, and it goes in further talking about the discipleship process and, and making leaders out of leaders. And and so that's just that's what I have felt since 2011, when God put that burden on my heart and it's really never went away or faded, it's just a daily burden to do that. And and I've been doing it.
Tony: So in 2011 can you talk, tell us a little about that moment, that cause, cause I think a lot of us have these kinds of conversion moments where it feels like things in our life just shifted. What was that like for you? And then how did you know how to respond in kind?
Chad: Well, my conversion moment, wasn't 2010.
And you know, I could go all the way back to say, you know, for me I'd really have to go back even further on that. And if that's okay, I'd go back. And so my my family's big military family. I made my uncle served in world war II. My father entered the [00:04:00] Marine Corps for our family, began a Marine Corps legacy for 53 years now of my family gets sick.
It will be serving in the Marine Corps. My father was named Marine infantry. Men in Vietnam, came home and struggled with a lot of things that. Many of our veterans struggle with today, I served as a forestry Camarena did eight deployments to Afghanistan as part of a J sock joint, special operations command task force.
Both my sons served in the Marines. My oldest was that Afghanistan veteran as well. So we both served in the same war. My youngest is actually, I guess, somewhat ending our service in the Marine Corps right now. Cause he's actually getting out because of the vaccine mandates, which is a whole another show or topic religious exemptions, as well as every service members, religious exemptions were not not granted.
Nonetheless for me during those deployments, I worked in a special operations. I faced a lot of the same things that many of our military waters face today, anxiety, depression, frustration, anger debilitating panic attacks and near divorce and a real battle with, with, [00:05:00] with suicide and becoming another better suicides.
During the end of my deployments I started probably during the middle of my diploma, as I started really dealing with anger and frustration, which manifested and you know resulted in me coming home and taking that out of my family and not just not being a great husband and father coming home and very, you know, happy to see my family when I come back from Afghanistan, but I get home.
And at 24 hours later from being an Afghanistan and combat to being, you know, husband and father and Mr. Rogers, the friendly neighbor, like I can flip that switch and not be that angry at tan guy. And and, and I kind of justified it in my mind being a, have to be as bilats angry individual and do my job and I'm going to back in Afghanistan.
So I have to be this person right now. So it kind of justified my behavior. I mean, I, you know, slammed doors and punch holes in the wall and break things and screaming. My wife had children like a Marine Corps drill instructor. I was just, it was. Happy place for my family to be, and not as probably not a safe place.
And you know, it's a shame to say those things, but it's just true. That's [00:06:00] where I was at the time. And even one time I remember coming home and going to be back from my little girl's birthday party. And she was so excited. She's very, she's very much like a self-proclaimed princess and has the half birthdays and celebrating her birthday on a day is like the very important thing.
And she even moved her birthday to, for dad to be home from Afghanistan. And it was a very special thing for her and she didn't like the icing on the cake. My daughter's very opinionated and she still is some of it's so simple though in a, but I just flipped out and lost my mind and grabbed a handful of my Legos birthday cake and picked it up and threw it against a wall and like destroy my little boy's birthday.
I remember like in that moment, like thinking who behaves that way, like what kind of dad, like acts like that, but that was, you know, me and the results of just the stress and anxiety and just anger that I had. The work. I was doing Afghanistan and coming home and trying to integrate back in, just really just manifesting out out and one of my family.
And and when I recognized that I was out of control, instead of correcting that behavior and, and backing down, I just kind of dug my heels [00:07:00] in and said, well, this is who I am right now. And this has to be this way. So I just isolated myself from my family. Didn't really deal with it. And, and that resulted in those symptoms, those, that anger and frustration turning into these physiological symptoms that I never thought would, I would deal with them.
My arms would go numb and my face would go down. My throat was swelling shut and had like a thousand pound weight on my chest, like to where I felt like having a heart attack or I couldn't breathe. And, you know, these are signs of panic attacks. And I I didn't want to say anything to the guys I worked with.
Cause it wasn't this little special operations community. Yeah. But the guys would think I was. I would've thought the same of them. So I didn't speak up. I didn't say anything. And and I didn't want to go to mental health because I was worried if I went to mental health, I might lose my top secret clearance and be post my job.
So I just pushed it down and I kept trying to function. And the symptoms only got worse. I started having what's called disassociation where your mind kind of feel separate from your body. You feel like detached from yourself. It was like playing a video game. And everything happens a little delayed.
I started having a moments where I'd wake up, like out of a fog and feel like, you know, [00:08:00] everything was a blur or maybe not real. I felt like a dream. So these things were progressing, then it had a very bad moment. During one of my deployments, I won't get all the details of it, but but I, it resulted in 12 of our teammates being captured, killed two Americans, 10 Afghans.
And you may think that Afghans may not be as big of a deal, but to me. These were my brothers. They were my friends. I didn't, I didn't live on a base. I lived at the Afghan community because of my job and, and I had dinner at these people's homes and play soccer with their kids and, and they're my friends and I loved them and they would have died for me and I would have died for them and I was responsible for them.
And in fact, I do believe they did die for me. So if I was hanging on by a thread in that moment, that thread was really broken and the real is really become the unravel. I was brought home and diagnosed with severe chronic PTSD. And the reason I finally spoke up was because I was realizing I was putting other people in danger, not just myself.
So I felt the obligation to speak up. But again, I brought home put before a psychologist diagnosed with [00:09:00] PTSD and and the level of panic attacks I was having at the time. It's very hard to describe as someone who hasn't had severe panic attacks, but you know, the best way to describe it as imagine you were like in a bottom of the swing swimming pool, like chained the bottom drowning.
And you can see the air, like how desperate would you be to get that one breath of air? Imagine that level of panic as you're drowning to death, but you never drown. You never die. You that, like let's say the panic 24 7 and the medicine they gave me made me either feel like a zombie or like I was, it was killing me like I was being poisoned.
So I didn't like the medicine. I was in a severe state of panic on top of that. I was completely ashamed because I felt like I had failed. I mean, I worked my whole life to be to make it in the Marine Corps. I started training when I was 13 and 14 years old and it was a promise. Me and my brother had had to each other that we were to become recon Marine.
So we started training in a year and now training, my brother was killed. He was shot and killed. So I had like this. Life debt to my brother and made it in the Marine Corps, made it into recon made it to Fort street guy, made it to Jay sock, and [00:10:00] then finally got this majoring amazing operation in Afghanistan.
And it was like if I played football, I started a little league and made it all the way to the NFL and then made it a super bowl, which would never happen because I'm five for three, but you get the parallel. I worked my whole life to get there and this was my super bowl and I failed. So I was just embarrassed.
I was embarrassed to around my peers, so I just really want to hide. And my wife and my Casa, we're trying to find something to snap me out of it. And they, and they talked me into getting a nose wrestling mats and doing Brazilian jujitsu, which is wrestling based emotional art for those who don't know.
And it's not. So that's something that was new to me. I did it. I say I did it since I was little, but I'm still little. I did it. I did it my whole life. I started. I started when I was five years old. I started in Japanese Jitsu and judo and other martial arts. Grappling martial arts, my whole life. I was already a professional MMA fighter and aside side, and I was undefeated.
So I was pretty good at it. And so when I got in those mats for the very first time, I felt like I found a cure. You know, I think physical outlets [00:11:00] like jujitsu are really good for people with anxiety, because you can unplug from everything you're dealing with. You can't think about Afghanistan or anybody's going to beat you up.
You have to be physically, physically, and mentally present. And that's a really good, healthy thing, but you could take a, you could take something that's good for you like a medicine for being sick and you could abuse it. And that's what you had to do. You know, I took this good, healthy outlet and I abused it.
I didn't get, well, I just stayed on his math test as much as possible and don't get me wrong. I'd love to just do. Train almost every day. I'm a fourth degree, black belt on the cross and Gracie, but, and when I have stress, you know, ministry's very stressful when I get stressed out, I go to the gym and I'm following some 20 year old stud and I choke him out and it makes me feel better.
So I love jujitsu. But at that point in my life, I took something that was good for me. Like, and I made it toxic. Like some people would comment, alcohol or pills. That was, that was my negative thing. And I put so much time into this, that in a period of three years, I had master 18 and two professional record.
I [00:12:00] won a world title. I was ranked number six in the world. I made a lot of money. I opened a Jitsu school, had like a thousand students. And I really, when that surface, it looked like I was professionally very successful, but underneath that surface and they'd have folks really facade of success. My life was spiraling down and my marriage was falling apart.
My my family was falling. I was still dealing with panic attacks, anxiety. The extreme depression, very, very little sleep because of the level of depression I was in and anxiety I was in and still attire until my wife and kids. And my marriage started to fall apart in a pretty bad way. Like I I'd sleep at a friend's house or the gym or at a kid's bedroom, the loneliest place, my wife and I are probably say we ever been is not me being away on deployment Afghanistan, but in our own beds with our backs, turn toward each other and just this dead marriage.
And it did not take long for me being in this gym and this fighter fighting our television and stuff like that. There's lots of girls around to walk out of her marriage in an affair. I didn't really have much empathy at a time. My heart [00:13:00] was pretty calloused, so I didn't even really care the consequences or how it affected my family.
And so when it did come to light Meyer solution was all right, I'm not going to deal with this. We sat our family down. We're going to get divorced. I remember our kids crying. My wife crying and I've kind of held each other and embrace each other, but said, Hey, it's going to be better. Like you're not going out to, to fighting anymore.
You're not going to have to deal with the drama anymore. You'll get two Christmases, like all the things that everybody justifies divorce with, we were saying all those things. And we grew apart. You don't understand this anyway. I don't understand you. You don't understand me. It's just better. If we go separate ways.
So we sold our home. We thought for divorce and we signed two separate 12 month leases on apartments. So we were pretty committed. And my wife and I had two very different reactions. Kathy joined a church. We were already going to a big church, but she joined like a church that she be more plugged into.
She wants to be around positive people and wanted to be around the right support. And and you know, while she was going to church, [00:14:00] people tell me that she go in there almost daily, not just on Sundays. And she would just pray for me. And you know, yeah, you'd have to ask like why, you know, what could somebody be praying for their husband while they're having.
Being toxic to them really betraying her and she would pray, God, let me, let me see Chad, that we see Chad, let me love Chad, the way you loved Chad, let me forgive Chad, that way you forgive Chad. So that's what she was praying for me. And meanwhile, I went in this apartment and within two days I was like the full-out bachelor pad.
I didn't have this woman to deal with anymore. Cause she never understood me. Anyway. I signed up for this big fight on Showtime when Strikeforce and and in fighting this kid in Bermuda, Leone is up and coming and, and all my wins at that point, you know, at 16 wins not defeated and Elm on my Wednesday had finished by submission.
So this fight was my first time not to go to a submission, not to finish the guy and I go to the decision, but the whole fight was like, if you're a fight fan, it's like the Rocky fight, like backup. Every round. I knocked him down. I kicked him in the [00:15:00] face and knocked him down. He punched me in the face, knocked me and out of his back and forth.
And I was standing in the middle of the ringing. It was going to be a decision and it had been hit so many times. It had, I had had no idea who won what had happened. And and I remember the first judge and that was for Humberto. And the second judge announced for me. So it'd be a split decision and a third judging.
I was for me. And and everyone's cheering and all this pressure comes off. And obviously I'm excited. I won the fight and my hands raised and 10,000 people in there, like hearing and, and in that, in a moment I'm looking around and when it's 10,000 people screaming and you're in a center of the ring, it's still like, definitely loud, but it's like everything.
My mind just went quiet and I was kind of present at the moment. And I was thinking like, of all these people here, not one of them was Kathy because looking around, she wasn't there. She had been all my fights before. And the fact that she wasn't there, it was just like, really like, man, I just fought so hard for this stupid win on my MMA record.
And I'm not fighting for the most important thing, you know? Family and my family, you know, and and I think many people could relate to that. Not [00:16:00] just MMA fighters and military people, like we fight for promotions and more pay and, and the next goal in our lives. But we don't fight that hard as we would for professional things, for the most important things to being, you know, and, and being our family and, and I had made it, I had probably walked up that ring at that moment with my head held low.
And I went home to my apartment. I'm laying on my bed and I'm thinking of my life and what my family's going through, my wife and kids and devastation, they they're going through. And I blamed that with everyone in my life. I was pretty much, I wouldn't call myself a victim, but I was behaving like a victim, right.
My dad from my childhood and people in the military and my wife never understood me. Like, it's everybody else's fault. Like everyone's an idiot. And the truth is the common denominator was me. And when I came to that conclusion, lay in my bed, I thought, man, maybe my family would be with. But they would be better off.
And that same hopeless thought finds a home in the hearts of over 20 veterans a day. Right. Maybe nothing would be south that way, but they'll be better off. And I made a decision to take my life. I I had a Glock 22 pistol and I would go in [00:17:00] my closet in my apartment and put my family pictures on the floor around me.
And and I try to look at those pictures and maybe kind of a say goodbye and put that gun to my head and try to have the courage to pull the trigger. And now I believe there's a divine thing that every time I put that gun to my head, I'd see it play out like who was gonna find me. And a division of who was gonna find me.
It was gonna be my son hunter. Cause he was the only one, a key with the key to my apartment. I mean, you either going to have somebody get a gunshot and you gotta show up missing, like somebody going to find you. And, and that was enough for me not to want my son to be part of that, to pump the brakes. But I was in such a dark place the next day or the next moments I was back at it, trying to like, I'm gonna do.
And and there was one morning, morning, I was in the closet, one pistol, my hand, and I heard a knock on the door and I wasn't going to answer it. But when I heard Kathy's voice announcing and hurting my wife, Kathy, I heard her voice announced. I panicked. And for some reason she had never came in my closet.
But for some reason I panicked and I hid the gun under a blanket, like probably because I was ashamed and I went to the door and I was so mad. This sounds twisted, but I was so mad that she was there, [00:18:00] interrupting me, killing myself, that I just started yelling at her. I'm like, what are you doing here? Why are you here?
And I'm yelling at her and she's not a very calm person. But but in that moment she was just really calm. And she was, and she asked me a question that radically changed my life and probably saved my life. She said, how could you do everything? In the military she's helped me become a recovery. We were 17, 18 when we met.
So she go through that training with 80% attrition rates. You saw me go through that, through all these schools and special operations training and pre-deployment workups and it deployments to Afghanistan. And then the discipline as a professional athlete, like training and cutting weight and doing everything.
She saw this discipline professionally. She's like, how could you do all of that? But when it comes to your family, you'll quit. And you know, I don't know about you guys listening, but there's no more soul cutting words to me than it'd be called a quitter, but she was absolutely right. I'd been successful professional things when it came to the most important things, like being a husband, being a father, being a young 17 year old kid that raised his hand and made a commitment to do something important with his life.
I quit all those things that could in my will to live in. [00:19:00] And so in that moment I prayed a pretty radical decision that it was that it was time to get back into fight. And I knew I couldn't do it alone. And I knew it couldn't do any people surrounded myself by because I surrounded myself by people to everybody.
Everybody told me what I wanted to hear, not what I need. And I needed some really good accountability in my life at that time. And so I asked my wife is, if someone goes on this church, you go on to that can help hold me accountable to this. And I care about God or the church or anything. I just wanted somebody outside of my circle and that was her circle.
And so this guy, she introduced me to this guy named Steve . He was just an elder and call it the church when she called there. And and so Steve met me at a Starbucks coffee shop. And when I met him, he wasn't in the military or MMA fighter or anything like that. But I slid, I had written a five-paragraph order for those not in the military, like a military operational order of my life.
I was super proud of it. And I probably smugly like slid it over to him. Really. What I was really doing was like, Hey, can you show this to my wife? I can, I'm trying to win her back. Now I'm trying to manipulate a situation and he didn't even read that paper. And he put his hand [00:20:00] on it, slid it back over to me and told me I was going to fail.
I remember my response was like, I was pretty upset because I'm like, man, I just put all this work in. I'm trying here and you're telling me I'm going to fail. And I'll never forget. He tapped in that paper. And he said, if this plan doesn't have anything to do with your relationship with God, I'm not going to waste your time and I'm not gonna let you waste mine.
And you know, the truth is at that point in my life, I tried the pills, medication, VA programs, constant Ling. I tried everything and some good things, some bad things. I mean, I had professional success, but none of those things changed my situation. We have a saying at mighty Oaks foundation that comes out of this moment.
If what you're doing, isn't working, then why not try something different, right. If what you're doing in your life, isn't working. When I try something different, I tried everything, nothing worked. It was time for me to try something different. So I didn't really understand what it meant, but I trusted this guy, Steve and I surrender my life to Christ.
And beyond that decision, Steve began to mentor me, you know, for a whole year, from 2010 to 2011 and biblical living. And what that [00:21:00] really meant for me was coming to the realization. That all these bad things that had happened to me when I, my childhood, the physical abuse of my father or the the dysfunctional home lose my, I have my brother killed when we were, when I was 14 years old, like losing foster Harrington, or our first deployment, we had been, we have served the other for 10 years.
He was one of my best friends. He was killed during our first deployment was shot in the head and killed instantly. And and then losing, you know, buried 15 friends over my deployments, like, like all these bad things, as bad as those things were, those things that lead me to be in a closet when pistol man would lend me, there were choices I made in response to those things.
And that was a very important revelation for me to realize that I couldn't blame the situations that happen to me. I can only blame myself for the choices. I'd take responsibility for the choices, and I've never lost control of the ability to choose. And as cliche as it may sound, I realized I didn't have to let my past to find my future.
I could choose a different future. Moving forward. Now, these biblical principles, Steve are teaching me or, or a better set of choices and other. [00:22:00] I I would, would I still get angry? Of course. Would I still have anxiety and depression? Of course. Would I still have panic attacks? Yes. What, me and my wife still getting fights.
Of course we would, but how the choices I would make and how I responded to those things would be different moving forward and produce a different result, a very different result. In fact, that radically change my life because through the me being intentional about choosing biblical solutions to the problems that I had from my past in the way I was moving forward, brought restoration into my, my marriage, my family, Kathy and I had been married 26 years.
Now. I have a great relationship with my kids, an incredible relationship with my kids. They, you know, two of them serve in ministry full-time so I have a, have had restoration in my anxiety, depression, PTSD, and how I manage it, how I manage different things in my life. I found hope again through that and ultimately.
What I've taught my whole life and that's purpose. I mean, we were created that purpose, well purpose where they're up and die. One of my favorite quotes is from mark Twain about purpose. [00:23:00] It's the two most important days in a person's life or the day that they're born. And the day that if I know why, when Steve tows introduced me a life that I believe God created me to live, I found out the why.
And it was really to answer your question that took 20 minutes to answer. It's a, it, it was really to pay for what others had did for me to give others the second chance that Kathy gave me that God gives us all. And the mentorship that Steve gave me, it was really just the realization that I wasn't, the only one struggling other people were struggling the same way as I was, when you going through something like that, and you feel like you're all alone, but to realize other people are going through it too.
And for me, it was like, I felt like I was dying of cancer and Steve tilt gave me. And I had, I couldn't keep that to myself. I was obligated to share with others. And so God has really used all of that, that I just shared with you to just place this burden on my heart for other people going through the same thing.
I was able to have empathy [00:24:00] again for the first time, a long time, but empathy for people that had experienced what I was experiencing and through not wanting to live anymore through marriages. I mean, people were killing themselves at a rate of 22 a day. People were divorcing who had been in combat at a rate of 80% like, but I had the solution.
And that solution was not only surrender your life to Christ, but aligning your life to the life that God created us to live in, aligning our marriages to the marriage. God created us to be in and I, and I had to share with others. And so that manifested in me feeling burdened to do that. And that started mighty Oaks foundation in 2011.
And since then, you know, spoken to 250,000 active duty troops. Seven or eight books now. And I shouldn't know the number, but, and and given away over 150,000 copies of my books to the troops, you know, I get to speak to active duty service members all over the world. And then we'd have a recovery program called legacy program that we've had over 4,000 graduates go to 4,100 graduates.
But now we're doing about a [00:25:00] thousand per year. We pay for everything, including their travel. We spend about four or $5 million a year in this programming. So everything's free for veterans active duty service members. First responders. And and so the last 10 years I've just been paying it forward and God's brought the most amazing team and oxygen and ability to do that in such an incredible way.
And I'm just blessed to be a part of it and continue to heal every day because of it.
Tony: I love it, man. That's like I love drinking water through a fire hose.
Chad: That was the longest answer you could have asked for, but.
Tony: No, it's good though. It's good. I love to hear the story and I love the perspective of it.
I think I'm reminded of Romans 8, 28, right? All things work together for his good you know, one of the things that I hear is I is I hear your story is. Man you, you never failed, but you weren't always successful, you know, as it just pertains to the stuff behind the scenes, you're obviously the same guy who did all of those things that you are now, but with a new [00:26:00] lens you know, your lens obviously through Christ has really changed your life.
I'm curious, how do you keep I'm, I'm gonna just say it this way. How, how do you keep the demons at bay today? W what's your normal routine look like? What's your, what's your process look like? Cause you're not any less intense than you were. I would imagine you seem, you seem like a very intense guy and I've kind of tracked you online a little bit and your mission.
I mean, you just, you don't fail. Right? And, and I appreciate that. At least it doesn't seem like it
Chad: keep that same lens. It seems like it's worser than the age, a very committed, passionate, and I'll always have to be engaged in something. And I know my, my heart. It's just burdened to serve. It always has been burdened a surf.
I mean, right now, you know, outside of my yolks, we just we've wanted to save our allies. And we, I just went back to Afghanistan. We rescued 17,000 people from there. You know, I never thought I'd be back doing that. So I'm always, I am always engaged in so that the answer, your question, two things. One is I, [00:27:00] when I was in that darkest moment in my life and making those bad decisions, I had no accountability.
I had systematically pushed accountability out of my life and surrounded myself by people that told me everything I wanted to hear and not what I needed to hear. So at this phase in my life, I know that me, Chad has to have accountability, most dangerous place. Anybody can be in the world is without accountability, especially men.
I had to have accountability. So I have a really good circle of very accountable people. I I'm in a part of a group I'm in part of two groups of men that literally could tell anybody. And have open forum. I mean, one of the guys could be having an affair and, and or be addicted to pornography or something like that.
And these are godly men that could be open about it and talk about it and unburden their hearts so that we could deal with it in a, in a place that's totally safe and confidential. And and so creating that environment for something like that was important is I think it's important to man and, and very important [00:28:00] to, to me in my life developed to keep people intense.
People like me are passionate people like me and check because without accountability, you know, I could go off the rails again. And, and other is had I have a great advisory board. And as the pastor and Chris brown in a north, north coast church in San Diego, real estate church, some of you might've heard it before.
And I was, I was like, mighty Oaks was doing really well. And I was sending updates and like, Hey man, look how awesome this is. We, you know, we just did God, so great. And he says, instead of him, like saying, yeah, great job. And you know, happy for you. He just wrote. A few simple, hard words. He said, yeah, don't ever forget you.
You're one mistake away from losing it all. You know, you're one stupid decision away from losing at all. And and it was it was a really good timing for me to hear that. Cause I was getting really moving forward in ministry and getting really excited about how things were doing. And it just made me re reminded me of the story of Paul and and, and, you know, Paul's biggest threat was that he was always one decision away from becoming Saul again.
[00:29:00] Right. He could always go back to who he was and, and I'm like, man not that I had a name change, but I definitely had an identity change. And, and I'm, I'm always one decision away from going back to the old chat again and re recognizing that vulnerability and myself and how flawed I am and how and how far I've come.
It takes, it takes. So I feel like it's taken so long. There's so much work to get to where I am right now, but it would take one second, one. One stupid decision to go back to where it was. And just recognizing that vulnerability in myself and not giving myself any credit to say that I've made it, or I arrived and realizing how, how fragile.
Everything is, it just brings a lot of countable.
Tony: Hey guys, just taking a quick time out from this conversation with Chad to remind you about the spirit and truth conference. That's right. Spirit in truth. Putting on our annual conference this year, March 17th, through the 19th here, Dayton, Ohio, that's the evening of the 17th, [00:30:00] the evening of the 18th and the morning of the 19th.
We want you to come get your cup filled. We're going to talk about the holy spirit, what it means to connect with the holy spirit and why it matters to your walk with Christ. I think you're going to love this conference. It's going to feel more like a camp meeting, an opportunity for you to have your cup filled with the holy spirit.
So to get connected, to come register for the conference, check out spirit and truth.life/. Hey, when you check out, be sure to use the code reclamation on the checkout and you'll save a little money on that registration fee, just to gift from us to you. I hope to see you there. I'll be hosting. Make sure you come up say hi, let me know that you listened to the podcast.
I can't wait to see you guys in person. Now let's get back to this conversation with Chad. Yeah. One of the things we say around here a lot is that if you aren't dedicated to your disciplines, you'll be destroyed by your distractions. And that it's really born out of my [00:31:00] belief that I'm 24 hours away from ruining my entire life at any given moment.
And, and so are there daily things that you do to connect with God in with Kathy? I'm kind of curious about both.
Chad: I mean, one is, you know, I, I'm not a, I'm pretty regimented person in a predestined, pretty disciplined person, but the one place. And I'm just, I'll just be open and transparent. Somebody. I just wrote a marriage book cause I that's just who I am.
They went the one place. I, I, I am not regiment disciplined. I struggle with is my personal time with God for some reason. And I think it's a spiritual influence for some reason. That's the one area of my life as discipline of a person I am as regimented person. I am that I can be distracted from, that can not take priority that I, I struggle with.
And and so I have to be I have to really put a lot of priority on the discipline side of having a regimented time with God, you know, and discipline becomes habit through repetition. And so, you know, you have to build to take the [00:32:00] discipline to make it a habit. And I've, I have to. Say that I did that in my life.
I had to do that all the time in my life with when it comes to my relationship with God. And my, my time with God, not that I don't appreciate my time of God and I don't crave it because I do crave it, but some reason, and I believe it's a spiritual thing. Something blockades made from being from it being easy and convenient and just it just fall into my daily regimen.
Like other things do. I mean, I won't miss the opportunity to train jujitsu because I love jujitsu, but I will miss sitting down and reading the Bible. I will miss my personal worship and prayer time with God daily. Not because I love just doing what I love. God, it's just, something happens with that.
And I'm aware of that. And so I have to be very regimented with it with Kathy. I mean, Kathy and I over both very busy with our ministry and what we do. We try to have some regimented time with each other. That's a lot easier. We, we love spending time together. But we also we pray together and I think couples that pray together, stay together.
It sounds cheesy and cliche. [00:33:00] But man it is, is so crucial to pray together. And we, you know, when we pray together most is when we're mad at each other. When we, when we, when we're not happy with each other, cause he's kind of like, just suck your pride up and then bite your tongue and hold each other's hand and pray together.
And and not, we don't just pray together when things have gone. We pray together all the time and and daily and that's, that's that's important.
Tony: Yeah. I think I always saw my wife and I saw a counselor once when I was in a real bad way. And one of the things that she said is not just pray together, like pray over each other.
So like praying for my wife's head and our heart every day. I mean, I know God's working through that prayer, but I was, I'm always really shocked on how much it changes my heart. It's just so hard to stay mad at somebody who you're physically praying God to bless, you know, like it's, it's this weird, it's this weird
Chad: tension and it praying over you.
There is a, there's a. I do have a warning for that though, while I agree with you a hundred percent, by the way, [00:34:00] warning for that is cause we can all find ourselves doing it is don't use that praying over them or praying for them as a way to make a point, because you're talking about, you're talking to God, but you're really talking to them, right.
Tony: Sometimes I tell guys, I was like, Hey, it may be the only uninterrupted time you get, but don't use it.
Chad: And if we get, we, we are, will you help her to make a better dinner and be more on an a and be more intimate with me? We helped her to dress more sexy for me. I started like thinking of things that you're going to pray, you're trying to talk to her.
You're getting a message to her. Yeah.
Tony: Oh, passive aggressive prayers. There's nothing. This is this, that's the perfect example. If our humanity, right. Our flesh kind of just get in there, right. Like, Lord, if I could just get what I
Chad: want, but your spouse will see right through it.
Tony: How did, I mean, in this, in this book, you are very vulnerable and it seems to be your your mode and [00:35:00] all of your ministry.
How, how did writing this book feel for you putting it all out there about, I mean, this is a lot of, I mean, you've shared your story multiple times, but like, it's hard to say you're not a good husband and that's kind of essentially where you start with this resource. What was that, what was that like for you working through all
Chad: that?
It is hardest. It's embarrassing. I mean, it's, it's not as shameful. This. And that of yourself, but I know the way, the way I've looked at, I never wanted to be a speaker or an author author that never was something I was inspired to do. I love doing it now. But I came to the point to say, if I'm going to do it, I want to be as impactful as possible.
And I think to be as impactful as possible, I have to be as honest as possible. One of the issues I've had with people in ministry with speakers is this very surface level and people aren't willing to be vulnerable and transparent. And, and I, and I think it does two things. One people can identify with you [00:36:00] because most people know in their own hearts, their own depth of, of, of dirt and filth and muck and mire that they are in and their own life.
And so if you can't communicate that you're actually there to, then they can't relate to you. And and, and just the, what God has done in my life and where God has me in my life right now, warrants me showing where God took me from. Yeah. So if, if I sugarcoat where I was and I'm dishonest because of my own pride or trying to protect my own, my, my own image, if I shoot a code that and make it sound a little bit better than it was, then that that raises the gap and close to the margin of what God did in my life.
And I want God to get full credit for everything, because I believe others could see that and say, wow, if God could do that in his life, then he could do it in my life too. And and so I think that was very important for our Christian communicator. Who's sharing the gospel and sharing God's [00:37:00] transformative power to be completely honest about the darkest and deepest, darkest moment of your life and the deepest valleys of your life.
Because when you, don't, you go a little bit up the hill a little bit on that valley to protect your own identity. You Rob God of that full margin of what he's done in your life. And and that ultimately will. Reach less people it'll resonate and land with people and and people see through it and and, and God will bless it.
So for me, that's the only way I'm willing to communicate if I'm going to do something, that's I want to do something that's to be most impactful. And so, yeah, it's, it sucks. It's embarrassing writing and I'm like, ah, man, I can't believe I'm putting in there. My, my, my, you know, Thomas Nelson, who's obviously a very big publisher and a Harper and Harper Collins, you know, they, they do a tremendous amount of editing.
Their teams are incredible by the way that they're such a great publisher. And then he went through this and there's been a couple of, a couple of their editing teams came back. And like, you sure you want to say that? I'm like, yes, I'm sure. I want to say that. I'm [00:38:00] absolutely sure that I need to say that, but I,
Tony: well, I think that there's a beauty in someone who from all accounts on the outside, like, I, I mean in American bad-ass right.
Like. Eight different deployments, the MMA fighting and all these things. And yet in so many ways your greatest strength is when you can admit your weakness. And so you wrote this book. Modeled after an MMA kind of rounds. And it's w we're talking about the book, but I want everyone to hear this because I think it's really important.
This isn't just a story about Chad's life. This really is a workbook it's designed you say in the intro, like it's designed to be read as a couple. And so I I would love to hear a little bit about the intentionality, first of all, by ordering it kind of an MMA fighting and the rounds kind of, so to speak.
And then also W why you wrote it as a couple workbook and not just a, I mean, cause you, you got enough of a story. It [00:39:00] would, it would sell on its own. But this is, this is like hard workbook. This is not easy workbook,
Chad: you know, I've, I've read a lot of books. I enjoy reading. I enjoy writing too now. But what I hate about a book is when, when you read a book and you, you finished the last page and you close the chapter and it's over, right.
It's it kinda like goes into your bookshelf enough. There's nothing, there's no takeaway. There's no call to action for it. And so for me, like I want, I want people to close the book and then the work begins because now you have to implement the biblical principles that are in here. And so that's why I want it to be a workbook.
I want it to be something that people wouldn't be that just read and be moved and inspired by Kathy and my, my Kathy and I's journey. I want because you know, Kathy and I are just two people who God's really blessed. It's about the, this ministry and God's restoring our marriage. We're too broken and flawed people as well.
And so what I believe more than what's more important than the testimony of our marriage in his book is the principles that are in it. And the biblical principles [00:40:00] that don't just splat our marriage, but apply to every marriage in God's creation. And so I decided to make it into a workbook.
There are a couple do together because I wanted them to be able to take action. And these principles not just read them and be inspired by them not to be motivated by them. I people may call me a motivational speaker and stuff like that, but I could care less about voting me, motivating people or inspiring people.
I want to challenge people. And and I think by couples Rina's together, they're going to have to sit face-to-face with each other and answer some more questions about their marriage, about each other, and and be challenged to calibrate their law, their marriage, and lives to the marriage and lives that got into.
And a mess, hard work, and it's a fight. And I, you know, there's a lot of angles we could have went when we talked to the publisher, should we take the angle of military because there's so much military story in here, or should we take the angle of MMA? And I'm like, man, I thought back to that moment where I thought for that stupid, when am I record over Herbert pavilion?
And I won the fight and I love fighting. I love winning [00:41:00] by the way, I'm a big competitor. But the contrast to me, fighting so hard for this professional win on my fight record and how many other people out there fight so hard for professional success in their life, but they don't fight for the most important things in their life.
They don't fight for their family. And you know, Kathy asked me a question, well, I want you, when it comes to your family, you'll quit. You know, essentially what she was saying is why won't you fight for us while when your fight for your family? And and I think that that's not just a message to. From my spouse, that's probably a message and some words and some other format across the world that every spouse has said, his wife has said at some point that her husband, why won't you fight for us the way you fight for other things?
And and the truth is we should step up to the challenge and fight for our marriages and fight for our family and fight for our children to win back the marriage that God intends for us. And that's the subtitle of the book. And so, you know, in a championship may fight there's five rounds and you don't always win your first round.
I mean, you could go out there and, and and lose your first round. You can have a 10, eight round, which means you [00:42:00] almost lost the fight. You got it just right with you today. Round means the referee was close to stopping it. You almost lost and you'd come back and win in at fifth championship round.
And so you never out of the fight in the, in your marriage, no matter how bad your marriage may seem, no matter how much you may think. I don't love this person anymore. I don't like this person we grew apart. It's gonna be better to be a divorce is no way to reconcile. There's five rounds of the Nephite and a, and you could win in the championship round.
And and so we want to take people through that journey of looking at it and, and not just one round, but five different rounds and and how to break it out in that, working with them, they could do together. And so, and and you know, I loved I loved the partnership that came along with this book, Adam Davis you know, I had, I had the story and I was able to write my story.
Adam Davis is he coauthored with me cause he does an incredible job at devotionals and workbooks and studies. He's a, he's a great author and he's a friend of mine comes from a law enforcement background, his own story. So he, he worked with me on it and he was just great. And then Steve [00:43:00] green the president of the, of hobby lobby and the founder of the Bible museum did the forward on it.
So we just had some great and then man, our agent and then and then Thomas Nelson, just a great team put this thing together. And so I think a lot of marriages will be blessed by it.
Tony: Yeah, I well, Adam, Adam wrote some, some really great words at the beginning, just about your in Kathy's story and the impact that you had on his life.
And one of the things that I love to hear and see in Christians lives is, is spiritual reproduction, right? How, how are we making disciples who are going to turn around and then make more disciples? And it feels like that's kind of what you're doing here with the workbook. Part of it like, Hey, like God's changed my marriage and I believe God can change your marriage too.
And you're kind of passing that on. I also think that you've got a very important message that sometimes get lost. And I'm curious to get your thoughts on this, about About how Christian men can still be tough, competitive [00:44:00] masculine, I, you know, positive masculine men. Like for me, for me, it's just really important that we get away from kind of a soft wimpy Jesus.
Cause I just don't see Jesus that way at all. When I read the scriptures, I just see this incredibly tough driven man. I'm curious to hear your thoughts on that cause you, you don't fit in the typical guy Christian speaker profile. You know what I mean? Does
Chad: that make sense? It does. And I'm very aware of that and and it's a very personal thing to me in, in my, in my own story that I didn't talk about when I was telling my story.
In fact, I was, I was in the process of writing a book and I, and I was still come out eventually, but kind of by about 60% done with it. Called I forgot what the title like it, but I don't remember that, but it was by the masculinity of Jesus. And some, it was writing this manuscript, but it, masculinity, Jesus and sharing just really outlining who Jesus actually was, how he wasn't this wimpy guy walking around with a beautiful flowing that Dow student hair and in a white robe, skipping around Jerusalem.
Like he was [00:45:00] a rough dude that walked at 30,000 miles throughout his lifetime and, and sandals and a giant corporate forearms. Like I'm, I shouldn't, you know what I mean? He was a, he was a rough dude. And and he stood against injustices and what, what, what was right in the world and their, and their, and their government and it religious ideological rule of the day.
And I mean, he stood against hard. Thanks. He was a, he was a rough guy and I, and I think we lost that along the way. And I think it isn't lost by. And then people there's a spiritual battle going on and the devil would want nothing more than to look at Jesus as a caricature of a, of a real man, a as a, as, as wimpy and weak, and maybe like even a fairytale kind of character.
That's what the, that's what the enemy would want us to view Jesus as an end. And in part, I believe somewhat the church has been a culprit in this. And, and so for me, when I was going through my twenties, I searching for identity and, and manhood, like most [00:46:00] young men in their twenties do I'm, I'm around all these special operations guys that I'm being mentored by and and growing up under and, and aspiring to be.
And they're like freaking stunts. I mean, they're physical STAs. They're mentally tough. Aggressive and in achievers and I'm like, these are the guys. I want to be like this they're in my community. I respect them. And I want to be like these men and I'm going to work as hard as I can then I'll be like this man, but to be one of the best of them that I could be, that was my goal.
And and, and that's who I that's who I was attracted to. And then I go to church on Sundays with wise, because not because I cared about going to church, but because it was the kind of married thing to do, and my wife's going to be a great Christian woman and, and be loyal to me. And my kids are going to go to Sunday school, like kind of just play along, but I'm not joining the circus, the softball team with those nerds on, at church because they're a bunch of weak dudes.
And I look at the contrast in my profession of these alpha males and these in these men in [00:47:00] church that are being drug around by the hand, by their wife. And, and it wasn't inspiring to me. It wasn't attractive to me. And so when I came to this decision in my life, getting Afghanistan. Okay, I'm going to combat military talks about four pillars of resiliency, mind, body, spirit, social, like mentally.
I was mentally tough. I was, I was, I was physically tough. I had a strong social network with spirituality, like either were Christian stamping adult, my dog tag. But the truth is I thought, and I believed probably a thousand percent convinced in my mind at a time that Christianity and people of faith were weak.
Like I had to choose between being a warrior and being a being a person of faith. And of course, I'm going to choose at that moment to be a warrior. I didn't know that to quit. And co-exist, I didn't know that the strongest men in the battlefield of combat and of life were men of God. I didn't know that because I didn't see that model.
And so I learned that the hard way by trying to do. Combat trying to do the hard life with without God [00:48:00] in my life, by intentionally putting God out and leaving a giant hole inside of my heart, that over the years I filled with hate and rage and anger and bitterness, and not realizing that spiritual foundation, that spiritual pillar when, until it was Foursquare pillars of resiliency, that spiritual pillar is the foundation that unless you endure life, the hardships of life and Belton moved forward, that these tough men that I was aspiring to be the ones that didn't have that spiritual foundation all broke, not just me.
I know many of them ended up losing their families, killing themselves in jail, becoming alcoholics because they were tough mentally and physically, they were part of a strong social network, but they didn't have that fourth pillar. They didn't have the spiritual foundation. So what their toughness was temporary.
And and so it mine. And so coming into the side of that, realizing that I seen two deception, I see two deficiencies. One is as alpha male deficiency in our culture where you have these tough guys Who people are attracted to the Jocko's of the world, right? But the ones that don't have that spiritual pillar, [00:49:00] they eventually crumble as a matter of time.
And I was one of them. So I see the efficiency there that I strive to, to rectify. When I say I spoke to 250,000 active duty troops, that's the message I go to with these are four pillars of resiliency, the military, the mind, body, spirit, social, the spiritual one. It didn't have it almost cost me everything.
Here's what my life looks like now with it. Here's how you can be resilient to the hardships of combat and life on life and on a battlefield and bell to bell to push forward as a warrior. And it'd be a husband and be a father and be a great standing member in your community. Like this is what resiliency really looks like is that fourth pillar I'm able to do that.
I'm able to rectify that problem. I'll be part of rectifying that problem in the military. But I also realize that that aside there's that church side in a church where men are, men are passive and they're weak, and they're being led around church and by, by their, by their wives and not taking the leadership role.
And so I realized that weakness there. So that's why I want to go into churches and speak as a, as a [00:50:00] guy that has a background like mine and tell these, and try to be a model for these, some younger guy in church, like me that can say, Hey, that guy's tough. That guy is like an alpha male. And he loves Jesus.
And his life is in a solid position right now because he loves Jesus. And so I want to, I want to able to rectify both of those dilemmas through my ministry.
Tony: I absolutely love it. Now I know that our our audience is as a praying audience, my, my community here at the reclamation podcast as, as this book is launched into the world on W w what can they be praying for specifically, like, w what's your desire that that comes from, from this resource fight for us and how can we pray for you and with you?
Chad: Well, I mean, I pray for the marriages that out there, we know that, you know, in the military community, we have 80% divorce rate, I think, and I think outside of the military[00:51:00] and that combat veterans outside the military, 50 60% of our stats. I don't want to say the stats change. It's very hard to get an exact stat on that because there's such a variance between 50 and 60% of marriages in America fail.
And so there's so many families out that are struggling. So I want to pray for, for them that, that they will realize the truth of God's work. They had been sold, and we all been told that there's no handbook to marriage. There's no blueprint to marriage, but the truth is that's, that's a lie, a lie.
There is a handbook to marriage. It's the Bible. We just need to pick it up and read it. God's God has a blueprint for marriage. And it's, it's this whole union between a man and woman and God. And as the covenant that he created, the very first. And that he created amongst people was, was a marriage. And so God has a plan for your marriage and there is hope for your marriage.
If Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead, then he could restore your dead marriage. He did it in mind. And so I pray for those couples and I pray this book. I mean, I wrote this book to be a resource. Every, every book I've written, I hadn't written it [00:52:00] for financial gain. Most of my I've given away over 150,000 copies of my books.
A lot of the money from my books, most of the money go from my books, goes back to back to our ministry to help our ministry. And so so it's my prayer that this book will sell as many copies as possible and get in the hands of as many churches for resources, Christian bookstores constantly pastoral counselors biblical counselors and in the hands of those marriages that are.
And you know, that's, that's, that's my prayer that this resource will get out there because there's lots of marriage books out there. But I think what makes this one different is is I wrote it because this was what I was looking for when I was struggling a pragmatic, practical view of a couple who were as in the muck and mire as bad as it could be.
And and Jesus reached down and pulled us out. So there's, there's a lot of marriage books out there, but I don't think there's a lot of out there that really get into the Dugway. And sometimes we need to both see that.
Tony: I love it. I love it. [00:53:00] Okay. I have one more question for you. But before I ask it, I'm curious, where can all my listeners go to, to learn more about the ministry that you're doing and pick up their copy of the book?
Chad: Well, mighty Oaks programs.org. If any veterans active duty, first responders, spouses are struggling. All our programs are free. We pay for even travel. And and we we have application button on our website MITx programs that org you can apply there and get help any of our books there, including in our books that you've seen.
There are for sale but we always tell our, those in our veteran community, if you can't afford one just email us and we'll send them. But we do sell them so that we could have given to people that really can't afford them. So if you can't, if you can't afford it, then don't take advantage of that.
But if you can't, no questions asked, just email us and we'll mail you a free copy of any book that we have on our website@mightyoaksprograms.org. Also while it's free to those guys, I spend like four to $5 million a year in programming. So it's free to them. It's not free to me, so, and freed our ministry.
So if you want to support, we are a 5 0 1 C3 tax [00:54:00] deductible ministry. You can make a donation there and help support these amazing programs that we do for our warriors. And then the book you go to fight through us book and purchase copy there. It's available now for pre-order it'll release on February 15th.
And and then, and then if you don't want to go to just fight for us book dot com, you can also just go to any of your. Book retailer and they'll have it there. Amazon Barnes and noble. I think it's a, I think maybe like Christian books, it's pretty much anywhere you sell us books.
Tony: I love it. I love it.
And your book actually comes out. It comes out on the 15th, which is my wedding anniversary. 19 years of marital, mostly, mostly marital bliss.
Chad: Great anniversary guests. It will, it
Tony: will. Okay. Last question. I always love to ask people. It's an advice question to give yourself, except I get to name the day and the time.
And so I, I'm curious if you could go back to the day after you enlisted in the Marine Corps [00:55:00] and you could go talk to that young Marine, grab him by the face. And now with all the wisdom that you have, if you could give him one piece of advice, what would it be?
Chad: Yeah, it may sound like the answer that belongs in a show, but it's the, it's the truth is the true answer.
And it, it would be to have a solid foundational relationship with Christ. Before I entered into the, into that, into that journey as a warrior. And a, and the reason I know, I can say that with complete authenticity is one of my favorite things I get to do is go speak to Marine Corps, recruits and Marine Corps bootcamp.
I'm going to have two speakers that are allowed to go. I've been there every quarter for seven years. So I speak to almost all the recruits that come in the Marine Corps, and I get that opportunity. That's it to go back and tell myself, but to tell them, to tell them. And and I, and I get to talk about those four pillars of resiliency in my body, spirit social, and I get to tell them that I didn't have that.
And and they could make a decision now on the front of their career to have that. Don't wait till they're facing a divorce. They'll wait till they're sitting in [00:56:00] the closet with a pistol in their hand. They can make the decision now and and, and be truly resilient, combat ready at warriors to face the battles of combat and to face the battles of life and end up on the other side, being exactly who God created them to.
But it starts a relationship with him. And I wrote this book called another book called path to resiliency. It's about a 45 minute read pocket book. The Greek word lets be given out at bootcamp and it's about that spiritual foundation. And if anybody's listening in and wants that for themselves that book is, I think it's, we have a 99 for 99 cents on Kendall.
We sell it on our website for nine bucks, which is like a terrible deal because it's a little small book, but lots of Tara was a terrible bargain for nine bucks. The reason why is because we've given away over a hundred thousand of them. So that's how we fund it. So it's about that. And I get to give that away to these recruits.
So that's kinda, I I'm getting to live the answer to my question, not to myself, these guys who were same position. Yeah. That's so cool.
Tony: That's so cool, Chad. Thank you so [00:57:00] much for what you're doing for our service members. Thank you for your honesty and your authenticity and for your doing for our country.
I just think it means the world. And so so I appreciate you. And in the mission that
your.
Chad: Thanks so much, man. God bless you. Wow.
Tony: Wow. Wow. What an incredible story. I love his heart. I love the way he approaches a redemption through brokenness. I love the way he fought for his marriage. There's such goodness in his heart.
You can see that he just doesn't know how to fail. And and I love that. I love that. And, and I hope that as you look at your own marriage, there are some really strong things that you can take away. And if you haven't started praying with your spouse yet, there's one thing that you hear out of this entire episode, please, please, please pray with your spouse.
It will change your marriage. I promise as always guys, I'm so thankful to be in this community with you. I'm thankful for our relationship, your commitment to the podcast. And if there's any way that I can help you, please don't hesitate to email. You can check out the full show [00:58:00] notes@reclamationpodcast.com.
You can also get connected with me through that website. And remember guys, if you want to follow Jesus, you must be willing to move.
